Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[subterrestrial]

Okay so let’s put speculation aside for a moment and let me ask the question. What are some of the biggest mysteries to do with smash that still exist to this day. I’ll start

Wether porky is in the absolute safe capsule

where is the Luigi mansion 3 spirit event

who were the missing spirit events that were discovered to be missing

let’s carry on the thread as we ask the unsolved questions

that second one is a very good question...

where are the chorus kids ?

is rayman still in the ice ?

why do brawl fox and falco have animations for running out of ammo ?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's more accurate to say we don't know if they were considered or not. Yours was a definite "were not considered" as a statement(which isn't really accurate to the tweet either). We don't know that for sure.

But yeah, I misremembered the statement. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It's more accurate to say we don't know if they were considered or not. Yours was a definite "were not considered" as a statement(which isn't really accurate to the tweet either). We don't know that for sure.

But yeah, I misremembered the statement. Thanks for the reminder.

That is more fair to say. Strictly speaking, there was no indication one way or another whether or not they were seriously considered. The only thing talked about before they got characters was why they never made it in. That is all.

Also, why can’t Samus move around using the Morph Ball ability in Smash outside of dodges?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That is more fair to say. Strictly speaking, there was no indication one way or another whether or not they were seriously considered. The only thing talked about before they got characters was why they never made it in. That is all.

Incidentally, I meant to quote you but screwed it up.

But yeah, indeed. Which makes them inaccurate to a second chance theory as well. They're too weak of evidence to mean much at all. Same with the reason Sephiroth being in is considered for part of it(to get more FFVII content). There's nothing strongly indicating why the content was worse in Ultimate base game than Smash 4 DLC either. We have a possibility that Smash 4 DLC and Ultimate Base were not negotiated for together, or it's possible some were and the Mii Costumes were "DLC or nothing" regardless, so they'd have to get them again later on if DLC was confirmed for Ultimate(to further note, Nintendo brought DLC in as a concept for Ultimate in 2017. So very very late into the development period. There's no way they could've gotten the Mii Costumes at the same time as the base character negotiations in this context). Was there anyone else who was treated as part of the Second Chance Theory? I only remember Min Min, Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra being mentioned.

 

[SKX31]

I know we're all talking about Mac (rightfully so), but the thing that gets me the most?

In my honest, naive opinion, the only thing preventing Ridley from being a quality character is his weight. It completely clashes with his enormous hurtboxes to the point of actual detriment. Make him heavier (at least as heavy as Samus, ffs) so he can go back to being a Cunning God of Death instead of a Frustrated God of Being Juggled All The Time.

I know this has been discussed to death, but...dang.

I do agree there, although it's a difficult balancing act because Ridley's pretty close to being a quality character while he's also very "hot and cold". He has oppressive attacks and advantage, able to edgeguard / cover ledge extremely well and can cover a lot of options even if landing as him can be a pain. If a Ridley player gets going it can be exceedingly difficult to stop.

Also, while he's a bit too light IMHO he's still tied for 14th heaviest at 107 (same as Wario, Ike and the Belmonts). , and / is at 108 (not only is Terry heavier, but so is Samus in a reversal of Metroid canon), is at 112 and is at 113. I'm thinking that Kazuya's weight would be at least a good starting point considering Ridley's size.

That is more fair to say. Strictly speaking, there was no indication one way or another whether or not they were seriously considered. The only thing talked about before they got characters was why they never made it in. That is all.

Given that more well established franchises get their new stuff represented quite quickly, it's certainly possible that Sakurai and co. / Nintendo adopted a "Wait and see" approach to both XBC2 and ARMS in question. The same can be said for Splatoon during Smash 4's DLC period - after all, Ultimate's design document was established by late 2015 IIRC, and was included with the confidence that the first game had suceeded in a major way on the Wii U (ca. 5 million for the first game on an overall failed console is no mean feat).

 

[pupNapoleon]

My headcanon is that he's just emaciated.

My headcanon is hollow bones like a bird.

 

[cashregister9]

If I have to see the Rayman in Ice theory taken seriously one more time I will do something exaggerated

 

[pupNapoleon]

biggest mysteries to do with smash

I'm Listening

Wether porky is in the absolute safe capsule

You lost me.

 

[Theguy123]

I'm Listening

You lost me.

I used porky as a mystery because there’s a lot of debate to wether he’s in the absolute safe capsule and to this day not even Nintendo has said anything about it therefore it’s a mystery.

I wasn’t implying he was gonna be the last character if that’s what you thought.

 

[Twilord]

Just to check, its a bit too late for Panic's Playdate to be the source of the final DLC character, right?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here's a quick question.

Do you think the last fighter will be an older character or a newer character?

And also, where do you draw the line between older and newer?

 

[Twilord]

Do you think the last fighter will be an older character or a newer character?

Interesting question, I have no idea. They could be from a new Playstation IP being announced at E3 next year for all I know.

And also, where do you draw the line between older and newer?

This question however is a bit more fun. - I get the impression the general line, as ill-considered as it is, is whether the character is from a franchise that is older than Smash 64 or not.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Here's a quick question.

Do you think the last fighter will be an older character or a newer character?

And also, where do you draw the line between older and newer?

Idk if I can say who I would guess is CP11, it feels like a crap shoot. If I had to name ten names I feel are relatively solid bets, Crash, Adol, Rean Schwarzer, Alis from Phantasy Star, Nahobino, Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton, Monokuma, and a Gen 8 Pokémon I guess would be my short list.

Ill just say anything post 2012-2014, ie anything from the Wii U, PS4, 3DS, and onward I would put into the newer camp. Anything older than that I would say is old enough to be considered old.

 

[Sucumbio]

Here's a quick question.

Do you think the last fighter will be an older character or a newer character?

And also, where do you draw the line between older and newer?

I'm about 30% confident it's a new Pokemon so new, 40% it's a 3rd party newcomer but could span Doom 1993 to present, the other 30% remains for another rep from an existing franchise already in smash who could also range from 1980 to present but if that's dodging the question I'll say the last dlc is probably a character introduced before 2010 making them Old imho with new being anything after 2010.

 

[Theguy123]

I don’t know how likely it is but what are the chances we could see our first assist trophy upgrade here. It feels like the dlc has been guiding us towards it so what are the chances.

min min - spring man is included in the trailer for arms And is then included in the official min min trailer. Sakurai didn’t address the situation about spring man at all

steve - bomber man gets made into a deluxe mii costume which is basically a fully playable model. He also gets palette colour swaps as if he’s a normal fighter

FP11 ???? - the surprise assist upgrade ???

What are the chances we see this and more importantly who would be the one to break this assuming it’s a third party because I personally think the last character will be a third party.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I don’t know how likely it is but what are the chances we could see our first assist trophy upgrade here. It feels like the dlc has been guiding us towards it so what are the chances.

min min - spring man is included in the trailer for arms And is then included in the official min min trailer. Sakurai didn’t address the situation about spring man at all

steve - bomber man gets made into a deluxe mii costume which is basically a fully playable model. He also gets palette colour swaps as if he’s a normal fighter

FP11 ???? - the surprise assist upgrade ???

What are the chances we see this and more importantly who would be the one to break this assuming it’s a third party because I personally think the last character will be a third party.

99.9% not happening.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don’t know how likely it is but what are the chances we could see our first assist trophy upgrade here. It feels like the dlc has been guiding us towards it so what are the chances.

min min - spring man is included in the trailer for arms And is then included in the official min min trailer. Sakurai didn’t address the situation about spring man at all

steve - bomber man gets made into a deluxe mii costume which is basically a fully playable model. He also gets palette colour swaps as if he’s a normal fighter

FP11 ???? - the surprise assist upgrade ???

What are the chances we see this and more importantly who would be the one to break this assuming it’s a third party because I personally think the last character will be a third party.

Being that Nintendo would still suggest a character regardless of something like an AT status? I'd say it has a fair chance. But they could also go for someone they're pushing from a new game or something too, or someone huge who isn't already an assist character, etc.

I'd probably give it something like 20% considering how many characters there are, and some big one's are already AT's.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Here's a quick question.

Do you think the last fighter will be an older character or a newer character?

And also, where do you draw the line between older and newer?

Judging from Nintendo's character choices, it really depends if the final character is first party or third party.

If it's First Party then it's almost guaranteed to be a new character because all of Nintendo's picks debuted on the Nintendo Switch. Question then however is, which new character is left to pick? Ring Fit Trainer is all that comes to my mind so unless Nintendo has got a new IP planned that they haven't shown yet, I doubt it will be a first party character.

If it's a Third Party, then it's not as clear cut. The ratio of old vs new third party characters seems to be a 4:3 ratio favouring older characters (5:2 if you count Arusu as the main Dragon Quest hero) but then Nintendo could even it out by adding a new character so that doesn't really help us narrow it down. However I don't think Nintendo would include a character like Nahobino unless they worked closely with Atlus to add a new character. For the sake of the question, I'll just go with an older character because it'd be less of a headache if things don't work out for a new character.

As for the second question, I think it can be a little complicated. Sometimes you can say a character like Inkling is old because it debuted on a last gen console but it still feels like a newer character because it's one of Nintendo's most recent IPs. You could also consider Min Min and Pyra/Mythra old characters because the games they've come from are five years old but again, they're Nintendo's most recent character additions. Even then characters like Bayonetta who come from a decade old series still feels kind of new in a weird sort of way that I can't explain. Maybe I should stop there and consider anything 20 years old to be old or Retro. I don't know if I'm making sense now.

 

[subterrestrial]

I don’t know how likely it is but what are the chances we could see our first assist trophy upgrade here. It feels like the dlc has been guiding us towards it so what are the chances.

min min - spring man is included in the trailer for arms And is then included in the official min min trailer. Sakurai didn’t address the situation about spring man at all

steve - bomber man gets made into a deluxe mii costume which is basically a fully playable model. He also gets palette colour swaps as if he’s a normal fighter

FP11 ???? - the surprise assist upgrade ???

What are the chances we see this and more importantly who would be the one to break this assuming it’s a third party because I personally think the last character will be a third party.

I could lowkey see one of the more popular AT's getting promoted into a playable char

my money is on pong or chef kawasaki

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I could lowkey see one of the more popular AT's getting promoted into a playable char

my money is on pong or chef kawasaki

The only one I can feasibly see is Waluigi.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The only one I can feasibly see is Waluigi.

If they cared about what was "feasible" Bandana Dee would be more likely as our first promoted spirit over anyone from ARMS.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If they cared about what was "feasible" Bandana Dee would be more likely as our first promoted spirit over anyone from ARMS.

There's a lot of bitterness in this post and I don't know why its directed at me.

 

[Idon]

Here's a quick question.

Do you think the last fighter will be an older character or a newer character?

And also, where do you draw the line between older and newer?

A newer character from an older franchise! THAT'S RIGHT, THE NAHOBIN-

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don’t know how likely it is but what are the chances we could see our first assist trophy upgrade here. It feels like the dlc has been guiding us towards it so what are the chances.

min min - spring man is included in the trailer for arms And is then included in the official min min trailer. Sakurai didn’t address the situation about spring man at all

steve - bomber man gets made into a deluxe mii costume which is basically a fully playable model. He also gets palette colour swaps as if he’s a normal fighter

FP11 ???? - the surprise assist upgrade ???

What are the chances we see this and more importantly who would be the one to break this assuming it’s a third party because I personally think the last character will be a third party.

It is he.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

If I have to see the Rayman in Ice theory taken seriously one more time I will do something exaggerated

Boy am I glad Rayman's frozen in there and that we're out here.

 

[Mamboo07]

A newer character from an older franchise! THAT'S RIGHT, THE NAHOBIN-

You mean blue haired anime femboy with a sword?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

A newer character from an older franchise! THAT'S RIGHT, THE NAHOBIN-

It's rather poetic.

DLC began with Joker, a spin-off of SMT, it ends with a character from SMT.

But after all the turns and twists that have been pulled off. I don't know what to expect anymore and at this point, it can pretty much just be anyone.

 

[Sucumbio]

I don’t know how likely it is but what are the chances we could see our first assist trophy upgrade here. It feels like the dlc has been guiding us towards it so what are the chances.

min min - spring man is included in the trailer for arms And is then included in the official min min trailer. Sakurai didn’t address the situation about spring man at all

steve - bomber man gets made into a deluxe mii costume which is basically a fully playable model. He also gets palette colour swaps as if he’s a normal fighter

FP11 ???? - the surprise assist upgrade ???

What are the chances we see this and more importantly who would be the one to break this assuming it’s a third party because I personally think the last character will be a third party.

What is the situation for Spring Man? I hardly ever encounter him it's always Black Knight, shadow or Isaac like always Isaac...

Bomberman is a nutty AT and I love when he shows up cause you can play kich the can with his bombs and not worry about dmg unlike say nades.

If fp11 is an upgraded AT I hope it's one of the combat related ones but not bk or that yeees you cauled chick from pits game so the weird fish guy um zero, Isaac, the crazy ninja dude wackckckckckc um oh yeah the Sonic one actually hmm oh and Krystal duh

But wait I really wanna know what made Little Mac so special that he basically shows up in Brawl and then is playable next game... Why not just make him playable in brawl? Eh whatever. But yeah there's something about Little Mac's journey to the roster that makes it seem logical to expect another AT to be upgraded, especially if they were introduced in Smash 4! Or even Utimate.
And I apologize if I forgot any of the ATs that are "combat" unlike say shadow who just slows everything down or fatal frame that stuns you etc

 

[Swamp Sensei]

But wait I really wanna know what made Little Mac so special that he basically shows up in Brawl and then is playable next game... Why not just make him playable in brawl? Eh whatever.

I can explain this one.

At the time of Brawl, Little Mac was just another retro character that hadn't been used in over a decade. Granted, he was a popular one, as Punch Out!! was a huge franchise in the west, but just ultimately one of many. Sakurai made him an AT in Brawl to celebrate that popularity.

But after Brawl, Punch Out!! got a very successful reboot, selling several million copies. The Wii game ultimately did two things for Little Mac.

1. It made him a relevant and marketable character.
2. It made his popularity and the popularity of the Punch Out!! franchise skyrocket.

Little Mac became such a popular request during Pre-Smash 4 that he was considered one of the top ten popular requests. Yes, back then, he was among the popular kids club like Mega Man, Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, Palutena and Isaac.

The stars aligned perfectly for his upgrade. And the other two AT promotions had similar cases.

Isabelle was a popular character during Smash 4's development, but after Smash 4, her popularity surged. She became one of the most popular modern Nintendo characters, constantly appearing in marketing, usurping the role of Animal Crossing's ambassador and even nabbed a spot in Mario Kart. Isabelle was too big NOT to be included at the time of Ultimate's development. She and Inkling were the faces of modern Nintendo.

Dark Samus got extremely lucky. Sakurai needed an echo and Dark Samus did well in the ballot. Considering she hasn't appeared since 2007 and is canonically dead and won't appear again, she's potentially the luckiest character on the roster. She just filled that echo spot perfectly.

Characters who were previously ATs either had massive developments after their initial inclusion or fit the role they needed perfectly.

 

[FreeFox]

Dark Samus got extremely lucky. Sakurai needed an echo and Dark Samus did well in the ballot. Considering she hasn't appeared since 2007 and is canonically dead and won't appear again, she's potentially the luckiest character on the roster. She just filled that echo spot perfectly.

Characters who were previously ATs either had massive developments after their initial inclusion or fit the role they needed perfectly.

Which I am really glad for. We got not one but 2 metroid characters and villains too boot.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Which I am really glad for. We got not one but 2 metroid characters and villains too boot.

Hey, I won't complain. Dark Samus being included made me giddy.

It's just that EVERYTHING had to align for Dark Samus to be included. If one of those things didn't happen, she would not have been picked.

 

[osby]

It's rather poetic.

DLC began with Joker, a spin-off of SMT, it ends with a character from SMT.

But after all the turns and twists that have been pulled off. I don't know what to expect anymore and at this point, it can pretty much just be anyone.

I don't know why this meme is still alive.

Persona's parent series is the larger Megami Tensei franchise. If anything, they're both spin-offs of the same thing.

 

[FreeFox]

I see people speculate all the time of who is the next character, but I have never heard anyone speculate on who is next on the death row for the last smash trailer?

So, we have seen tons of characters die including Galeem (Mario has died a lot) in smash trailers so who do you think is next on the chopping block for the last trailer?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't know why this meme is still alive.

Persona's parent series is the larger Megami Tensei franchise. If anything, they're both spin-offs of the same thing.

I though Shin Megami Tensei was the main series.


What games fall under JUST the Megami Tensei banner?

 

[kylexv]

Pic of the Day:

1980年のきょうゲーム&ウオッチ『ファイア』(Game & Watch : Fire)発売!!
これは初期に出たシルバーシリーズの発売日で､後にワイドスクリーン版が発売されます｡人気作｡
Mr.ゲーム&ウォッチやそのステージにある関連作品は山ほどあるのだけど､ほかのご紹介は割愛させていただきます｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/enf3dA1HGH

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 31, 2021

Game & Watch: Fire released today in 1980 !! This is the release date of the early Silver series, and the widescreen version will be released later. Popular work. There are a lot of related works on Mr. Game & Watch and its stage, but I will omit other introductions.

 

[osby]

I though Shin Megami Tensei was the main series.


What games fall under JUST the Megami Tensei banner?

Pretty much only the old Digital Devil Story games. Everything else that came after them are their own sub-series, mainly SMT, Persona, Devil Summoner and smaller, mostly Japan-exclusive stuff.

There are also Digital Devil Saga and Devil Survivor which both got a sequel but aren't considered as full series as far as I know.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Man I suck! I could only recognize 2 =(

I got everything but the Harry Potter and the Jungle Book.

 

[DanganZilla5]

I don’t know how likely it is but what are the chances we could see our first assist trophy upgrade here. It feels like the dlc has been guiding us towards it so what are the chances.

min min - spring man is included in the trailer for arms And is then included in the official min min trailer. Sakurai didn’t address the situation about spring man at all

steve - bomber man gets made into a deluxe mii costume which is basically a fully playable model. He also gets palette colour swaps as if he’s a normal fighter

FP11 ???? - the surprise assist upgrade ???

What are the chances we see this and more importantly who would be the one to break this assuming it’s a third party because I personally think the last character will be a third party.

I could definitely see an assist trophy be upgraded because...well there is nothing stopping them from doing that. With that said I think the main reason why an upgrade hasn't happened yet is due to the fact that none of the assist trophies have a particularly strong argument going for them.

For example, they seem to be avoiding a second Sonic character for some reason so Shadow seems unlikely. Bomberman got a mii costume. Takamaru got a localization but he's still relatively obscure and seems more like a base roster addition. At this point, if a Golden Sun game is being made it's probably too late to be considered. Zelda hasn't gotten a unique character in 20 years so it's looking grim for its assist trophies. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Right now the only assist trophies that I think have a fair shot of being upgraded are Waluigi and maybe Ashley due to the new WarioWare game and her notable demand.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Honest question; why haven’t new event spirits been found in datamines? Considering we don’t get any in-game file updates, it seems like it’d be a no-brainer in regards to finding them to whittle down our FP11 options.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Honest question; why haven’t new event spirits been found in datamines? Considering we don’t get any in-game file updates, it seems like it’d be a no-brainer in regards to finding them to whittle down our FP11 options.

That's a good question