Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly all I'd do for major control revamps is put smash attacks on a seperate button entirely to prevent misinputting a tilt when you want to smash or vice versa, I doubt anyone would really object to this, especially when we have 3 different ways to jump by default

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Question for everyone:

When getting a new character, what is most important? How hype the character choice is? How well they will play competitively? How fun they will play regardless of their tier placement?

As someone who tends to stick to a few mains, I tend to say how hype the character is myself as I am not super likely to play a lot as the new character, but rather play against them a lot more.

 

[Sucumbio]

Question for everyone:

When getting a new character, what is most important? How hype the character choice is? How well they will play competitively? How fun they will play regardless of their tier placement?

As someone who tends to stick to a few mains, I tend to say how hype the character is myself as I am not super likely to play a lot as the new character, but rather play against them a lot more.

I genuinely look for solid match up spreads.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Question for everyone:

When getting a new character, what is most important? How hype the character choice is? How well they will play competitively? How fun they will play regardless of their tier placement?

As someone who tends to stick to a few mains, I tend to say how hype the character is myself as I am not super likely to play a lot as the new character, but rather play against them a lot more.

The character themselves obviously, nobody gets hyped by a trailer because "Wow look at that frame data", but rather who it is being shown and their moveset. The moveset generally being an idea of how they play as most characters have at least 1 move which makes us go "Yo that's sick I want to pull that off". After that, it's a case of seeing if they fot your playstyle

 

[Bobthealligator]

Question for everyone:

When getting a new character, what is most important? How hype the character choice is? How well they will play competitively? How fun they will play regardless of their tier placement?

As someone who tends to stick to a few mains, I tend to say how hype the character is myself as I am not super likely to play a lot as the new character, but rather play against them a lot more.

How fun in my opinion. Hype wears off when the character is released, but if they're fun and interesting them they add a lot more depth to the game and will be relevant for longer.

 

[Theguy123]

Question for everyone:

When getting a new character, what is most important? How hype the character choice is? How well they will play competitively? How fun they will play regardless of their tier placement?

As someone who tends to stick to a few mains, I tend to say how hype the character is myself as I am not super likely to play a lot as the new character, but rather play against them a lot more.

It’s 2 things for me.

1) how hype their trailer is. A trailer plays a huge part in persuading people to give a character a go if it isn’t the character they want or like. Without a hype trailer then it won’t sell

2) how unique they are. To me, I don’t wanna be playing someone who’s using the same moves or movesets as players already represented in the dlc or base roster. I wanna be playing as someone who’s mostly different and gives me my money’s worth.

if the previous fighter was a brawler like fighting games and then the next fighter is the same but with a few add one then I’d feel it’s not worth my money.

That’s what’s important to me in a fighter. Especially if the fighter is a character who i didn’t want. A whole reason I couldn’t get behind byleth’a reveal was because their moveset was really similar to current dlc character and their trailer didn’t sell me on.

 

[Gengar84]

The character themselves obviously, nobody gets hyped by a trailer because "Wow look at that frame data", but rather who it is being shown and their moveset. The moveset generally being an idea of how they play as most characters have at least 1 move which makes us go "Yo that's sick I want to pull that off". After that, it's a case of seeing if they fot your playstyle

I agree with this. Who the character is is the most important thing to me. Being fun to play comes in a close second. I’m strictly a casual player (and not a very good one at that) so the competitive aspects don’t matter to me at all.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

FINALLY

Smash Leak, Rumor, and Theory Speculation AFTER Mr. Sakurai Presents Kazuya - PapaGenos

Going over all the current Smash Leaks, Rumors, Theories and Speculation AFTER the Mr. Sakurai Presents Kazuya Video!!! The Super Smash Bros Ultimate DLC Fi...

www.youtube.com

Time to watch..

 

[Gengar84]

FINALLY

Smash Leak, Rumor, and Theory Speculation AFTER Mr. Sakurai Presents Kazuya - PapaGenos

Going over all the current Smash Leaks, Rumors, Theories and Speculation AFTER the Mr. Sakurai Presents Kazuya Video!!! The Super Smash Bros Ultimate DLC Fi...

www.youtube.com

Time to watch..

I never really followed PapaGenos. Has he ever actually had any inside information that has actually ended up being true?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I never really followed PapaGenos. Has he ever actually had any inside information that has actually ended up being true?

Nope, he just talks about rumours and speculates on them like LaxChris and Blocked Content, but people like his demeanor and thus he cannot be called clickbait

 

[3BitSaurus]

I never really followed PapaGenos. Has he ever actually had any inside information that has actually ended up being true?

He's not an insider or leaker. He compiles information that people have been talking about (in here, or twitter, or wherever) or that people want him to talk about, that's pretty much it.

 

[Gengar84]

He's not an insider or leaker. He compiles information that people have been talking about (in here, or twitter, or wherever) or that people want him to talk about, that's pretty much it.

Oh that makes sense. So he’s a bit more like Arlo, just focused on Smash specifically instead of Nintendo as a whole?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I never really followed PapaGenos. Has he ever actually had any inside information that has actually ended up being true?

What Gwen and 3Bit said.
I'll add that he'll sometimes respond and talk to people like us and share our own thoughts in his videos.

And while he focuses on Smash, he's done a few non Smash videos: i.e. NASB, Zelda, and gameplay videos on games like ToeJam and Earl.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Oh that makes sense. So he’s a bit more like Arlo, just focused on Smash specifically instead of Nintendo as a whole?

Pretty much. It's useful if you don't have the patience to keep up with all discussions and rumors. Unlike others who cover rumors, it helps that he's a bit more entertaining.

 

[Gengar84]

Pretty much. It's useful if you don't have the patience to keep up with all discussions and rumors. Unlike others who cover rumors, it helps that he's a bit more entertaining.

That’s cool. The only Nintendo YouTubers I watch that cover news and rumors are Arlo, Kyle Bossman, and Nintendolife. I used to watch Easy Allies and Gamexplain but I’ve fallen of those a while ago.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

The PapaGenos video is over 1 hour long. Smash speculation is now a movie I guess?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

The PapaGenos video is over 1 hour long. Smash speculation is now a movie I guess?

I mean, you COULD rent a theatre and hook up your computer to the screen...

 

[Gengar84]

The PapaGenos video is over 1 hour long. Smash speculation is now a movie I guess?

That’s kind of crazy. I wouldn’t think there would be enough to talk about to fill up that much time.

Part of the reason I don’t really watch many Smash speculation videos is that none of my most wanted are ever brought up. The popularly speculated characters usually don’t interest me too much.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Part of the reason I don’t really watch many Smash speculation videos is that none of my most wanted are ever brought up. The popularly speculated characters usually don’t interest me too much.

If it doesn't interest you that's fine.
But I've seen less speculated characters get covered at times.
You could, say, look up "smash dlc" on YouTube and you could find videos done on said characters. Such videos are usually done by MUCH smaller channels though, so if you don't want to watch that kind of stuff, then that's fine, too.

Example: Someone called the Duke of Dorks did a video on Diablo, IIRC.

 

[Gengar84]

If it doesn't interest you that's fine.
But I've seen less speculated characters get covered at times.
You could, say, look up "smash dlc" on YouTube and you could find videos done on said characters. Such videos are usually done by MUCH smaller channels though, so if you don't want to watch that kind of stuff, then that's fine, too.

Example: Someone called the Duke of Dorks did a video on Diablo, IIRC.

I think I actually saw that one. Someone posted a video of a Diablo moveset here a while ago that I watched. I’ve looked up specific characters that interest me and, yeah, they are usually much smaller channels (like less than 50 likes small). Some of my most wanted are completely unrealistic too so they will never have a video even from smaller channels.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Some of my most wanted are completely unrealistic too so they will never have a video even from smaller channels.

Forgive me for asking, since you've said it before, but other than a few Blizzard characters that I remember and retro characters like the Contra dudes, who do you want?

 

[Gengar84]

Forgive me for asking, since you've said it before, but other than a few Blizzard characters that I remember and retro characters like the Contra dudes, who do you want?

No problem. It’s probably easier to just post this roster I made rather than list out everyone:

Some others I’d love not listed here are Princess Garnet from FFIX, Etna from Disgaea, Gaige from Borderlands, H’aanit from Octopath Traveller, and Dixie Kong. There are probably at least 100 characters I’d love to see but most are villains or side characters.

My top three dream picks are Zegram Ghart (Rogue Galaxy), Magus (Chrono Trigger), and Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads).

As you can see, pretty much nobody on my most wanted list is commonly speculated at all. Still, I won’t be upset if I don’t get any of these. Kazuya was nowhere on my list and he’s still a lot of fun plus I already got Sephiroth who was in my top 5.

 

[pupNapoleon]

As far as controls in Ult go I’d only really want the option to disable auto short hops & the ability to map tilts/smashes to the D-Pad. If you really want taunts just being able to assign that to any button and having to hold a direction like every other smash move would be nice as well. Most of the extra moves characters have are implemented well enough already; the game just lacks controller options imo. It’s my biggest pet peeve with any game really.

It bothers me that some, but very-very few taunts, have functional uses.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

IntroSpecktive did a video on Smash speculation

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Example: Someone called the Duke of Dorks did a video on Diablo, IIRC.

This is correct, and it's one of the ones I actually like.

 

[MattX20]

Just got done with Papagenos video. Glad to see that he also thinks Phoenix still has a chance for the final spot

 

[Gengar84]

See, my most wanted are so unpopular it killed the thread for nearly three hours.

 

[SKX31]

At least he's not riding Yoshi into the water.

But yeah, I wish we had more of those icon meters. They're really fun and unique~

I'll forever rant about Olimar not having one until the day he gets a HUD element.

Because I swear it's really bloody difficult to tell which Pikmin is next in the midst of battle before I suddenly take 10-15 % from just a toss.

Question for everyone:

When getting a new character, what is most important? How hype the character choice is? How well they will play competitively? How fun they will play regardless of their tier placement?

As someone who tends to stick to a few mains, I tend to say how hype the character is myself as I am not super likely to play a lot as the new character, but rather play against them a lot more.

I'm pretty much with most:

1. If the character looks fun to play.
2. If the character has some form of spice or sauce that looks intriguing.
3. (Bonus) If the character is from a game I've personally enjoyed.

A character's competitive viability is next-to-impossible to discern within the first weeks after release, and it's outright impossible to tell with a reveal trailer that's meant to sell the character in question. Also, it's only relevant for those that care about it really. After all, sports and games often have a very large casual "playerbase" of sorts and Smash is no different in that regard. The only time a weakness is revealed at a reveal trailer is 's "You ain't no Air fighter, Mac! Quit fooling around up there!" (and that's only general). So at the point where a character's revealed, that's only a bonus.

Still though, there's a lot of value in what competitive players discover as the months / years pass: Not only will a kinda small but significant enough portion of casual players look towards what competitive players are doing (as with any game) and certain aspects like specific followups will "trickle down" into the casual playerbase, but the competitive scene is also the primary driver behind balance changes* and one of the most visible parts about Smash Bros; several of Smash Bros. most prominent YouTubers are involved in the scene and will be looking out for how the games work.

*Which can make different characters a bit easier - or more difficult - for casuals to pick up as a result. might be more difficult for most I'd imagine than at her debut: Not only is the transformation gone, but for instance has an insanely strong F-Air and a single-hit U-Air. That's no longer the case - Bouncing Fish is one of her primary kill moves nowadays instead, and that has more windup. While the character's always been rather technical, her design has arguably leaned more towards the technical side of things.

IntroSpecktive did a video on Smash speculation

I knew that those who voted at the INSIDE poll were onto something when they guessed Sakurai as the last character!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Thinking more on it, I don't think Air Shielding would be a very good mechanic in Super Smash Bros. It would cause disadvantage state to lose a lot of its nuance since shielding is such a good option, even with air grabs, which have their own problems. I think air blocking would be more suited to platform fighters that are more like traditional fighting games such as Kirby Fighters Deluxe (which coincidentally does have air blocking) since disadvantage is more just...getting comboed.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I never really followed PapaGenos. Has he ever actually had any inside information that has actually ended up being true?

His vids can be solid because of him- but I don't tend to watch, myself, as the videos are insanely long compared to what they cover.

As for what hypes me to a character?
1- Perceived Legacy. Not just hype--- if it is a game that had a HUGE impact in the gaming community, and almost inherently amounts to publicity and sales, then I'm hype. Most of my wanted picks are because the series- Frogger, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat- are just insanely big series with characters known far outside the gaming world.
2- Personal connection. If I have experiences with the character, it feels like a friend is getting into the game. I'm basically Donkey/Diddy/KRool cheering Banjo and Kazooie into the game.
3- If it is a Nintendo icon we have been sorely missing; Ridley And K Rool are the most obvious examples. Inkling, too, but that truly seemed a given.
4- Playstyle. But to be honest, I have fun with almost every character, so this isn't all that important to me.

Oh that makes sense. So he’s a bit more like Arlo, just focused on Smash specifically instead of Nintendo as a whole?

Uh... I dont know what Arlo you watch, but he covers all of Nintendo.
Pretty thoroughly.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I suppose the question is more so aimed after a character settles into the meta.

 

[Gengar84]

His vids can be solid because of him- but I don't tend to watch, myself, as the videos are insanely long compared to what they cover.

As for what hypes me to a character?
1- Perceived Legacy. Not just hype--- if it is a game that had a HUGE impact in the gaming community, and almost inherently amounts to publicity and sales, then I'm hype. Most of my wanted picks are because the series- Frogger, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat- are just insanely big series with characters known far outside the gaming world.
2- Personal connection. If I have experiences with the character, it feels like a friend is getting into the game. I'm basically Donkey/Diddy/KRool cheering Banjo and Kazooie into the game.
3- If it is a Nintendo icon we have been sorely missing; Ridley And K Rool are the most obvious examples. Inkling, too, but that truly seemed a given.
4- Playstyle. But to be honest, I have fun with almost every character, so this isn't all that important to me.

Uh... I dont know what Arlo you watch, but he covers all of Nintendo.
Pretty thoroughly.

I meant the style of his videos are similar to Arlo’s but PapaGeno’s are focused on Smash where Arlo covers Nintendo as a whole. Probably not the best choice of words on my part.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Thinking more on it, I don't think Air Shielding would be a very good mechanic in Super Smash Bros. It would cause disadvantage state to lose a lot of its nuance since shielding is such a good option, even with air grabs, which have their own problems. I think air blocking would be more suited to platform fighters that are more like traditional fighting games such as Kirby Fighters Deluxe (which coincidentally does have air blocking) since disadvantage is more just...getting comboed.

I think a character like Mac would heavily benefit from this. Just change his neutral special to a block where unlike shield, he still take damage, maybe just half, but the move would make him invulnerable to knock back allowing him to land safely.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I meant the style of his videos are similar to Arlo’s but PapaGeno’s are focused on Smash where Arlo covers Nintendo as a whole. Probably not the best choice of words on my part.

Gotcha.
I don't actually find them that similar, myself, though. Arlo is a very defined character- this impacts every choice in the videos. I don't mean this as shade to Papa, but his videos don't have that level of polish, to me. I do end up listening to him at the gym at times (Arlo I tend to visually watch, because I often laugh a lot), but I feel Papa's videos go on for so long because they have less structure and less of a journey.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I feel like papagenos does a great job of recapping the state of Smash speculation as opposed to be a video to get leaks from. He doesn’t advertise himself like Block Content does either.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I feel like papagenos does a great job of recapping the state of Smash speculation as opposed to be a video to get leaks from. He doesn’t advertise himself like Block Content does either.

I love the style of Blocked Content.... I just got tired of every single word said within the industry being blown into a tornado, as if a nasal twich indicated the next character. Aka intense clickbait.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I feel like Blocked Content himself kinda gave up.
Unless my recommendations stopped including his videos, I think he's been posting less lately.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think a character like Mac would heavily benefit from this. Just change his neutral special to a block where unlike shield, he still take damage, maybe just half, but the move would make him invulnerable to knock back allowing him to land safely.

That would help his disadvantage state (aside from recovery), which is a major weakness of the character, but it would do so in the least interesting way possible (he just doesn't interact with it now) and doesn't address his far more damaging design flaw; the fact that simply jumping onto a semi-solid platform brings you out of his reach beyond very risky and/or predictable options.

 

[Gengar84]

Who is the second worst character in the air after Little Mac? I wonder if it would fix Mac to just bring his aerial game to that character’s level. That way it would still be a major weakness, just not as extreme.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

That would help his disadvantage state (aside from recovery), which is a major weakness of the character, but it would do so in the least interesting way possible (he just doesn't interact with it now) and doesn't address his far more damaging design flaw; the fact that simply jumping onto a semi-solid platform brings you out of his reach beyond very risky and/or predictable options.

Thing is block is such an important move in his game of origin. Having it as a part of his moveset besides would make it interesting in that way. It would also help him charge his KO meter faster leading to more full KO meters per stock if his opponent does not play intelligently