Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Gengar84]

Whenever I brought up Dynasty Warriors, that was the biggest argument people had against Dynasty Warriors being added to Smash, to which I'd always respond with 1 major thing to remember:

Dynasty Warriors is a Video Game Franchise. People tend to act like you can't add them over what the game is based on as if it's Dragon Ball, but unlike that series, Dynasty Warriors has always been a video game franchise and isn't bound to a licensing nightmare. Plus, it's Koei-Tecmo's depiction of those characters and events with gameplay elements that can fit with Smash, so it's not like they have no chance at all.

And consider the fact that Nintendo greenlit multiple Musou games under 2 of their IPs. They definitely like the concept enough for it to get games published by them, so adding it to Smash wouldn't be some dumb hurdle of debating if it's video gamey enough. Not to mention how a lead dev of Gust straight up said Atelier isn't on Nintendo's radar and a lead dev of Team Ninja said there's no plans for Hayabusa to be in Smash would lead you to wonder if Omega-Force were contacted by Nintendo/Sakurai for a Challenger Pack or not.


Funny enough, Sakurai's latest Famitsu Column was about Roguelikes and Soulslikes:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yeah, I agree. Like I said, I don’t really see it as a problem either. It’s just one thing to consider that could potentially factor into whether Nintendo decides to include a character or not.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Great article.

Nintendo Makes Revisiting Classic Metroid Games A Huge Hassle https://t.co/yUXGphEFL2 pic.twitter.com/VUiKxaHItP

— Kotaku (@Kotaku) June 24, 2021

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Am I the only one that feels like a lot of major Smash DLC characters that get speculated are already out of the running?

For examples to what I mean:

Any Sony or Microsoft character (and I mean fully owned, not like Banjo or Steve who can appear on other consoles) never had a shot in my eyes, nor would Nintendo ever go for it, especially not with Sony

Rayman, Shantae and Monster Hunter are all third parties that got represented in the base game, so it doesn’t really make sense for any of them to get in as DLC after the Smash team already negotiated with them to get the base game content

Seeing that the last fighter won’t be revealed at E3 I feel ruled out any major player third parties like Crash, Sora, Dante, Doomguy and so on

Things companies have added to Smash through Mii costumes such as “Altaïr” and Vault Boy should be proof enough those companies aren’t getting a DLC character. You could argue Heihachi disproves that but Heihachi was carried over from the last game and the company it’s from was still working on this game

Despite that though, I feel like pretty much most speculated first party characters can be ruled out at this point, as Nintendo doesn’t have much reason to add someone like Bandana Dee or Isaac right now

And of course, assist trophies and mii costumes aren’t getting in, if that wasn’t clear after Min Min it should’ve been crystal clear after Pythra
At this point it’s hard to say who exactly will be the last fighter but I feel like too many people are denying the reality that a lot of highly requested characters either lost their shot a while back or lost their shot once Nintendo’s E3 ended this year

 

[ahemtoday]

Nobody wants to admit it, but Tetsuya Nomura was responsible for the Whispers, the timeline nonsense in TWEWY, the time nonsense of Sonic '06, the entire plot of BlazBlue, the ending of the Game of Thrones TV show, the shark-jumping scene in Happy Days, and the plot twist in Macbeth.

 

[Technomage]

Nobody wants to admit it, but Tetsuya Nomura was responsible for the Whispers, the timeline nonsense in TWEWY, the time nonsense of Sonic '06, the entire plot of BlazBlue, the ending of the Game of Thrones TV show, the shark-jumping scene in Happy Days, and the plot twist in Macbeth.

You forgot to add the Smash 4 Pac-Man emote to the end of your comment.

 

[Houndstooth]

I know there's a lot of options for genres not represented in smash yet, but a FPS character to wrap the second pass would be really cool.

And when i think on FPS, i think of DOOM. Considered by many as the most important game of it's genre; had games released on Nintendo consoles; awesome OST by Mick Gordon.

Master Chief can eat ****, Doom Slayer is the guy.

I agree with the FPS genre needing a solid rep. Definitely don't agree with the last sentence, though. lol.

I didn't play Doom when it first came out, but I remember those PC shooters like Wolfenstein and such. Doom definitely laid the ground work for the FPS genre. I would argue that Halo brought it to the console masses. Goldeneye on the N64, while popular, felt terrible after playing with the twin stick design controller. Bungie did a great job of making the FPS genre succeed on the console, and I think that is a big event in the video game industry that is sometimes overlooked.

 

[Twilord]

And of course, assist trophies and mii costumes aren’t getting in, if that wasn’t clear after Min Min it should’ve been crystal clear after Pythra
At this point it’s hard to say who exactly will be the last fighter but I feel like too many people are denying the reality that a lot of highly requested characters either lost their shot a while back or lost their shot once Nintendo’s E3 ended this year

I generally agree with your post with this one nit-pick; I'm not sure on the Rex point because it seemed Sakurai intended to add Rex even after he got his Mii-Costume, and decided after that to use the Torna style combat where the Blade fights with their own weapon.

I definitely think Min-Min was an 'Assist Trophy deconfirm' though.

There is an argument that with this pass ultimately deciding to go the route of Heihachi ---> Kazuya and Rex ---> Pyra/Mythra that Sakurai may have pivoted from 'toying with Rex anyway' to a hard 'Rex and Heihachi are out' to be fair to you; but I just think the finer detail on Rex is worth noticing.

----------------------------------------------------------

I'm still expecting to end on Pokémon; MAYBE Legendary Trainer with three different Pokémon though. My dream of a Pokémon X Digimon crossover may be dead BUT Kazuya suggested to me that a lot of the reasons I had for my deductions were right so I'd not be surprised if my deductions on the other side were too. (Even if I'm less sure of them.)

Goldeneye on the N64, while popular, felt terrible after playing with the twin stick design controller.

Golden-Eye's historical role isn't lessened because someone working on the next generation of technology invented a far better way to do it. Halo was transformative but Golden-Eye laid the ground-work for console shooters and was incredibly important to gaming history. - Doesn't mean James Bond should be in Smash Bros, but we don't need to write off a game's historical significance just because a later game took the ball and ran with it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You forgot to add the Smash 4 Pac-Man emote to the end of your comment.

Nah that was perfectly executed dry humor. No PAC-Mans needed.

 

[Brother AJ]

Am I the only one that feels like a lot of major Smash DLC characters that get speculated are already out of the running?

For examples to what I mean:

Any Sony or Microsoft character (and I mean fully owned, not like Banjo or Steve who can appear on other consoles) never had a shot in my eyes, nor would Nintendo ever go for it, especially not with Sony

Rayman, Shantae and Monster Hunter are all third parties that got represented in the base game, so it doesn’t really make sense for any of them to get in as DLC after the Smash team already negotiated with them to get the base game content

Seeing that the last fighter won’t be revealed at E3 I feel ruled out any major player third parties like Crash, Sora, Dante, Doomguy and so on

Things companies have added to Smash through Mii costumes such as “Altaïr” and Vault Boy should be proof enough those companies aren’t getting a DLC character. You could argue Heihachi disproves that but Heihachi was carried over from the last game and the company it’s from was still working on this game

Despite that though, I feel like pretty much most speculated first party characters can be ruled out at this point, as Nintendo doesn’t have much reason to add someone like Bandana Dee or Isaac right now

And of course, assist trophies and mii costumes aren’t getting in, if that wasn’t clear after Min Min it should’ve been crystal clear after Pythra
At this point it’s hard to say who exactly will be the last fighter but I feel like too many people are denying the reality that a lot of highly requested characters either lost their shot a while back or lost their shot once Nintendo’s E3 ended this year

Well we do have to consider that large 3rd party characters are not only revealed during E3 as Cloud and Simon show quite plainly.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Well we do have to consider that large 3rd party characters are not only revealed during E3 as Cloud and Simon show quite plainly.

And Steve I suppose, I’m just saying they had an opportunity to tease who the last fighter was at E3 but chose not to, similar to how they probably could’ve teased Byleth at the Game Awards but didn’t

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And Steve I suppose, I’m just saying they had an opportunity to tease who the last fighter was at E3 but chose not to, similar to how they probably could’ve teased Byleth at the Game Awards but didn’t

They don't tease characters though. The closest thing to that was Terry's reveal before the gameplay portion of his trailer was ready.

 

[Speed Weed]

I'm pretty sure all these UFO sightings were actually just Nomura

 

[Twilord]

I'm pretty sure all these UFO sightings were actually just Nomura

Your heart is unknown; flying in darkness. It too is a dark heart object.

 

[RileyXY1]

And Steve I suppose, I’m just saying they had an opportunity to tease who the last fighter was at E3 but chose not to, similar to how they probably could’ve teased Byleth at the Game Awards but didn’t

It's possible that Steve could have been an E3 reveal had COVID-19 never happened.

 

[Technomage]

Nah that was perfectly executed dry humor. No PAC-Mans needed.

True, but the problem is not everyone can figure out that it's not serious without a super-obvious sign like a Pac-Man. After all, sarcasm never translates well over the Internet (unless you make it obvious, like adding the word "NOT!" immediately after the sentence).

 

[Perkilator]

And of course, assist trophies and mii costumes aren’t getting in, if that wasn’t clear after Min Min it should’ve been crystal clear after Pythra

After Min-Min is definitely when it should’ve been clear, especially since we’re 5 fighters into Vol. 2 and not a single Assist Trophy promotion in sight,

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's possible that Steve could have been an E3 reveal had COVID-19 never happened.

COVID didn't affect 'em much, though. What did was Min Min having two gameplay-related delays.

Steve also had some major gameplay stuff added(re-reprogramming every stage). He was very unlikely to be at E3 anyway. Maybe at one point, with Min Min in around March(her original plan, it seems), but Steve already causing a delay by design? Nope. At most, he could've been August(2 months after E3, which is also 2 months of delay that Min Min had), but it makes sense to be delayed even further to coincide with Minecon. Basic business decision. Make the most out of the reveal.

 

[Perkilator]

COVID didn't affect 'em much, though. What did was Min Min having two gameplay-related delays.

Steve also had some major gameplay stuff added(re-reprogramming every stage). He was very unlikely to be at E3 anyway. Maybe at one point, with Min Min in around March(her original plan, it seems), but Steve already causing a delay by design? Nope. At most, he could've been August(2 months after E3, which is also 2 months of delay that Min Min had), but it makes sense to be delayed even further to coincide with Minecon. Basic business decision. Make the most out of the reveal.

At the very least, I think Steve could’ve had a teaser reveal at E3, similar to Joker (a teaser with no gameplay, just one letting people know he was in development).

 

[Technomage]

After Min-Min is definitely when it should’ve been clear, especially since we’re 5 fighters into Vol. 2 and not a single Assist Trophy promotion in sight,

I don't wanna get into another AT argument again, but I will have to say that I agree with your comment, since the ARMS spot was a missed opportunity for Spring Man (whose AT can be replaced by Springtron when needed).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At the very least, I think Steve could’ve had a teaser reveal at E3, similar to Joker (a teaser with no gameplay, just one letting people know he was in development).

I never thought it had a chance. They're determined to hard spread these reveals out. That way the character is gotten within a week or two instead. It's been consistent for Pass 2 to keep 'em spread out. Smash 4 had no consistent reveal schedule, and Pass 1 had to be combined with PP's development, and they had a lot of trouble getting it out, barely one month early(and it wasn't even planned to take a single year of development either. PP was, as I noted, among the same development cycle of the first DLC round). It only took a bit shorter due to having no extra stuff to do(stage, spirits, music), and only the stage would potentially take a decent amount of time. They had to reveal 2 characters at E3 to get it out at a decent time.

There's been zero sign they kept with that plan at all for Pass 2. I already figured that out they were spreading them out, with absolutely zero teasers, and making sure everyone is released very quickly within the reveal trailer. Whether it's a good business decision or not and all doesn't change that's what they blatantly went with.

I wasn't even surprised we had one reveal in June to begin with. Nor was I surprised we had one this year too. Different time was used for the entire Pass. They're going to use as much time as possible to keep the game's 3 year DLC cycle(well, technically 3 years and a few months development-wise) active, making sure they can get last minute sales. That doesn't work if they show everyone too early.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The popular characters were just a ruse. Now back to your regularly scheduled rando characters. lol

This one is Rytlock Brimstone from Guild Wars 2, a character I've mentioned a few times before and...somehow my second MMORPG character. Hope you guys like it.

Spoiler: Spilered into sections for readability, but overall long read

Rytlock Brimstone is the Tribune (leader) of the Blood Leigon, and used to be a member of Destiny’s Edge, a guild of heroes that fought against the Elder Dragons. When the Elder Dragon Zhaitan awakened and assaulted Tyria with his undead minions, Rytlock was one of the prominent figures in the fight against him.

After helping defeat Zhaitan, he worked closely with the Pact Commander to take down the other Elder Dragons (and even the god of war which…was kind of his fault) when they threatened Tyria. Aside from the Pact Commander, he’s been the most consistently present character in the game.

In Super Smash Bros., Rytlock uses a mixture of Warrior, Theif, and Revenant abilities alongside some of the special traits of Sohothin (which are oddly only used by the Pact Commander in the two missions that they wield it).

Spoiler: Dual Wield/Focus Sohothin

Rytlock’s Down Special affects everything he does. With it, he can either choose to dual wield with his special sword, Sohothin, and a pistol, or holster the pistol and focus on the Sohothin’s power. This decision also changes the special moves available to you.

In broad strokes dual wielding grants Rytlock faster frame data at the expense of range and damage, while focusing on Sohothin does the opposite. This isn’t quite the same deal as Pyra/Mythra however, as each mode is even more focused on being used in tandem with each other. The first thing you’ll notice about this is that just about any move is cancelable on hit into Down Special, meaning you can use it to continue combos where one state wouldn’t allow (it also doesn’t give you invincibility so keep that in mind as well).

Dual wielding Rytlock is very fast, able to keep pace with characters that try to bully you with superior frame data, but Sohothin’s length is also quite short, so just about every other swordsman can keep him out with range. Rytlock’s fairly middling speed stat also means that he’s not going to be able to chase down his opponents very easily, and he doesn’t have any anti-zoning tools to compensate either.

Rytlock becomes much better at handling zoning tools while wilding Sohothin as a greatsword. This increases its range and power, and gives him an actual projectile to use at a distance (which is ironic because dual wielding gives him a freaking gun). Rytlock also gets a ridiculous Up Special so his recovery is a bit better too. Also ironically, focused Sohothin is actually worse at K.O.’ing due to the Smash Attacks being incredibly slow or awkward, and the dual wielded Smash Attacks being more normal.

Spoiler: Special Moves (Dual Wield)

For his dual wielded Neutral Special, Rytlock wields a gun fires a Bola Shot. After a bit of startup, this fires a projectile that arks downward almost immediately, normally hitting the ground at about mid-range. If it hits, this inflicts immobilization. You’ll see purple chains surround the character, and they won’t be able to move left or right for about a second.

Immobilized opponents can still attack and Up Specials still move them upward, but they cannot jump, and all left or right movement is stifled. To put this into perspective, a fully charged Quick Draw from an immobilized Ike acts exactly as it would normally, but goes nowhere, while Aether works as normal aside from the lack of ability for Ike to drift forward or back with it.

One thing worth noting is that the Bola Shot disappears pretty quickly after it would normally have hit the ground, so it isn’t the edge guarding monster that it could be.

Rytlock’s dual wielded Side Special is Unrelenting Assault. He takes a battle ready stance as a burst of mist goes forth a short distance. If the mist touches an opponent, Rytlock will teleport to his opponent and deal multiple slashes while teleporting all around them. This can be used as a mixup option to try and stop opponents from whiffing buttons in your face, but if you use it incorrectly, Rytlock is left wide open.

Rytlock’s dual wielded Up Special is the Scorpion Wire. Basically, this is Joker’s Grappling Hook right down to the yanking people out of the air part. Use it as an anti-air and recovery move. Doesn’t get any simpler than that.

And of course, his dual wielded Down Special is Focus Sohothin.

Spoiler: Special Moves (Sohothin Focused)

Rytlock’s focused Neutral Special is Burst of Strength. This makes Rytlock’s attacks even more powerful while Sohothin is focused for a few seconds, but removes all of the advantages of focusing Sohothin’s power and none of the drawbacks for even longer after the effect wears off. This does actually make it easier for Rytlock to K.O. off of stray hits, but you have to be very sure that you can make the most of it when you use it.

His focused Side Special is Sohothin Blitz. Rytlock will throw Sohothin out as a large spinning projectile similar to Pyra’s Blazing End. While the projectile is out, Rytlock can’t use normal attacks, but he can use Dual Wield and use attacks that involves his pistol. If the sword hits the opponent, Rytlock will teleport to them and deal another slash, making the attack his best option for getting in against zoners.

His focused Up Special is Whirlwind Attack. This is another variant of Link’s Spin Attack, this time with a large hitbox that protects him better from the front. It’s also a multi-hit that spikes opponents at the end. The spike itself is actually fairly useless offensively, as the attack covers quite a bit of vertical distance, and launches opponents behind Rytlock, which will more often than not send them toward the stage if he’s on the offensive. However, the launch angle sends opponents directly away from the ledge while Rytlock is recovering, so edge guarding him can be an incredibly risky venture.

On the ground, this attack is a bit less useful. It has a lot more startup and end lag, and is essentially another super slow K.O. move. The one saving grace it has is the fact that if you do get hit by it, you will more often than not be carried to the edge of the stage or platform, which makes the move even more potent.

His focused Down Special is the aforementioned Dual Wield.

Spoiler: Normals (Ground)

Rytlock’s Neutral Attack is a simple three hit combo. If he is dual wielding, he can rapid fire his pistol as a rapid jab (an attack called Repeater), which can potentially catch opponents off guard. The rapid-jab ender is an advancing slash so he doesn’t constantly whiff it.

His Forward Tilt is an upward slash. When focused, it’s a poke and when dual wielding, it’s a combo starter. His Down Tilt is the opposite; a grounded sword sweep that’s a combo starter when focused and a (short ranged) poke when dual wielded.

Rytlock’s Up Tilt is an overhead slash that hits in front of him when dual wielding, but on both sides when focused due to the way he spins his sword (though it only hits directly behind rather than above and behind).

When dual wielding, Rytlock’s Dash Attack is a little wonky. He’ll use Savage Leap, a short hop forward followed by a stab. The stab is a good K.O. move, but the attack has no hitbox at the start. His focused Dash Attack is an attack called Rush, a simple sword slash after a short delay. You can use it to catch opponents off guard and initiate combos.

Rytlock’s Forward Smash is called Flame Spit, a slash with Sohothin that creates a mini fire tornado that moves just out of the initial range of the attack before dissipating. The flame is much stronger (and goes out farther due to the already increased range) when Sohothin is focused, but Rytlock will wind up the attack more as well.

His Up Smash is pretty much a direct copy of Roy’s when dual wielded (a blazing skyward stab). When focused though, the power won’t be in the blade itself, but a beam of fire aimed at the ground in front of him. This version of the attack, called Focused Eternal Flame, is incredibly powerful, but also pretty unwieldy.

His Down Smash is the most straightforward. It’s a simple spinning slash that just gets bigger when focused.

Spoiler: Normals (Air)

Rytlock’s Neutral Aerial is a downward slash. When focused, this is Rytlock’s primary spacing tool. When dual wielded, this attack can combo into itself at low to mid percents.

His Forward Aerial is a series of three slashes. The move is typically used as a combo ender with the focused version leaving Rytlock a bit more open afterward, but also hitting behind him between the first and second slashes.

His Back Aerial is a swift Kick (the move is called Kick). This is Rytlock’s fastest out of shield option with the caveat that the opponent has to be behind him for it to work. The attack doesn’t do too much damage, but it has good knockback, and works as a decent K.O. move when a stock starts to drag on.

Rytlock’s Up Aerial is the tried and true swordfighter Up Aerial. Both versions are a wide arcing overhead slash that can be used to juggle opponents. The Down Aerial is not typical of swordfighters though. It’s a powerful Stomp (again, the move is called Stomp) that can Meteor Smash opponents. If Rytlock hits the ground with the right timing, then there will be a landing hitbox that pops up opponents for combos.

Spoiler: Grab & Throws

Rytlock’s grab is a normal one handed grab, though its range is actually bigger when dual wielding, allowing him to threaten shields better despite his shorter range.

His throws are mostly for controlling space, but his Down Throw is particularly notable, as it is the most damaging throw in the game. Rytlock will push the opponent to the ground, and then summon a Blood Leigon Battle Standard (or flag) to fall on top of them. This also creates a hard knockdown, forcing a tech chase.

Spoiler: Final Smash: Cataclysm

Rytlock stabs Sohothin into the ground, causing fiery tornadoes to appear on random locations on the stage, and slowly move around the platforms they spawned on. The more surface area on the stage, the more tornadoes you get. While this is happening, small meteors will rain down from the sky, pelting players with small amounts of damage. After about a second, Rytlock will be able to move again, and take advantage of the situation. The fiery weather effects will dissipate after a while, with the tornadoes exploding to (probably) K.O. the opponents caught within.

Spoiler: Overall

Rytlock is good at adapting to the needs of his matchups, being able to play at short or mid-range. He’s also good at comboing by mixing the good frame data of his dual wielding stance with the long range of his focused stance. His recovery is amazing as well since Whirlwind Attack covers him decently well, he can throw out a projectile to either recover for free or distract an opponent and recover with Scorpion Wire.

Since he’s a large character with “meh” speed and a relatively high weight though, his disadvantage is kind of poor, and if he’s using the wrong stance at the wrong time, he can get bullied a little. He also struggles to deal with projectiles when he can’t get Sohothin Blitz to land.

Spoiler: Stage: Lion’s Arch

Lion’s Arch is a traveling stage that explores the titular city. It will always begin on a Lionguard airship as it flies through Sanctum Harbor. This part of the stage is flat with a slight rise on the tip of the left side. There is a wall on the right side that arches into a ceiling (this is the glass covering the area where the ship is steered, and the reinforced balloon that keeps the ship afloat), creating a hectic area where players can bounce off of the right side. Players can get on top of this area, and run up the airship’s balloon until they hit the blast zone.

In the background, you can see Macha’s Landing, a large, unfinished building in the shape of a lobster. It also doubles as a dock, so you can see a ship docked there as well. There are also a few welders working on the building’s construction.

After a bit, the airship will turn away as a floating platform powered by Asuran tech rise up to whisk you away to the next destination. The platform’s layout is just Final Destination, but you can jump through it from underneath.

The platforms will take you across the city to Trader’s Forum, where the Mystic Forge is located. After the players are dropped off, they will battle over the Mystic Forge. The area will be flat with a raised section on both sides. Somewhat off center to the left is the Mystic Forge itself, a hole with somewhat blueish, almost liquid like energy flowing through and around it. The energy keeps a crystal platform floating above the center of the hole. The platform is relatively high above the hole, so most characters can comfortably jump over the hole without landing on it. If 4 items are thrown into the hole, a rare item will pop out. If a player falls into the hole, they will take damage, be stunned for a bit, and flung out.

Miyani, an attendant for the Mystic Forge will be in the background watching the action, as well as a few random characters. After a while, the transition platform picks the players back up, and it’s off to Coriolis Plaza.

Coriolis Plaza will be a flat area with walk-offs decked out with a structures in the style of the 5 major cities. On the left is the Norn (effectively just large humans) structure. It’s a large wooden structure that serves as two platforms; higher on the left end, and much lower on the right end. The structure has walls on the right sides, and continues all the way off-stage on the left.

Next to that on the right is the human (das what you are) structure. It’s some wooden scaffolding that creates a platform that is somewhere in between the two Norn platforms in height. The humans also made a large flower bed in the dead center of the stage (to the right of the scaffolding) that’s ramped on the edges so players can just step onto it. In the flower bed is a large stalk grown by the Sylvari (plant people). The stalk has two leaf platforms on it; one above the scaffolding, and one lower to the ground on the right.

On the far right is the Charr (large cat people) structure. This is a black, crude looking metal tower with three semi-solid platforms jutting from it. The one on the left is the lowest, followed by the one on the right, with the one in the middle being the very top. The tower has a launcher on the side that will launch explosive and shooting type weapons onto the battlefield.

The last structure is Asura (ultra-smart little goblin things) structure. It looks like a diamond cut in half horizontally, and floats between the Sylvari and Charr structures. The bottom of this platform acts as a ceiling.

In the background various random characters will be walking about, and/or watching the match. When the transition platform returns, it is joined by two smaller ones that hang out at both ends of the main one.

The next area you land in is the bridge in front of the Guild Initiative Headquarters. This is a flat platform with the two platforms from before lingering on the scene. In the background, you can see the Guild Initiative Headquarters; a building which looks like it was built using boat hulls. This area is notably less populated than the others, but there are still a few characters out and about. The transition platform will leave the previous side platforms behind when going to the next area.

The final area you land in is a structure in Fort Marriner overlooking the Mist Portals (Asura gates that aren’t purple), and the Lion’s Arch Aerodrome (a large building with an eerie looking red energy concentrated on a hole in the front of it). There are lots of characters here to watch the action this time.

The stage itself is another flat area with two structures that split the area into thirds. These create high semi-solid platforms. There are three lower semi-solid platforms that hover in the median distance between the ground and the structure platforms. These platforms are placed symmetrically, with one between the structure platforms, and one on the left and right side of the stage. The next transition platform will bring you back to the airship.

It’s worth noting that almost none of the cameos here are specific characters. Instead, the stage tries to capture the look of an online game’s city with a bunch of very random looking characters strewn about, along with some ambient NPCs.

​

Spoiler: Contact Dragon’s Watch

While on New Lion’s Arch, pressing a combination of taunt buttons will cause Rytlock to contact the members of Dragon’s Watch via a wireless communicator. They have been monitoring the fighters that have been coming from “beyond The Mists”, and a couple of them will banter with Rytlock about it. The members that will chime in are Taimi, a young Asura and resident magic and tech expert, Braham, a Norn Guardian with a more teenagerey personality, Marjory, a human Necromancer and investigator, and Kasmeer, a human noble, and Marjory’s significant other. There are other members, but they’re either minor, seemingly on their way out of the story, or the avatar that can have one of 10 different voices. Here are a few sample conversations:

Spoiler: Mario

Rytlock: “I don’t think I’ve seen that style of clothing before. Is this a fighter?”

Taimi: “Looks like it. That’s Mario from the Mushroom Kingdom.”

Braham: “It’s a place known for its magical Super Mushrooms, which can double your height.”

Kasmeer: laughs “The people look like pancakes without them.”

Marjory: “It’s not just mushrooms though, they also have magic flowers, feathers, seeds. Just about anything you can think of.”

Rytlock: “What’s he using right now?”

Marjory: “It looks like he’s using a Fire Flower to launch bouncing fireballs, and a Cape Feather to reflect projectiles, so be careful with your Bola Shot.”

Taimi: “He also has a Flash Liquidizer Ultra Dousing Device, or F.L.U.D.D. for short. He can use it to push you back with a blast of water if he has it charged enough.”

Rytlock: “So wait for him to be open before using projectiles, and watch for that weird hose thing on his back. Got it.”

Braham: “You’ll want to pay attention to the flow of battle. When Mario’s on the offensive, you’ll want to dual wield so you can keep up with him. But otherwise, you can keep him out with just Sohothin’s range.”

Kasmeer: “Good luck Rytlock!”

Spoiler: Mr. Game & Watch

Rytlock: “What…is that?”

Taimi: “That’s Mr. Game & Watch. He’s from a world that is completely 2-dimensional, and he’s still 2-dimentional when he comes to other dimensions.”

Rytlock: “How is that even possible?”

Taimi: “By my calculations it shouldn’t be possible. It’s like whoever set this up changed the rules of our world to accommodate his existence.”

Rytlock: “It’s a good thing they don’t want us to get hurt.”

Taimi: “What do you mean?”

Rytlock: “I’ve been burned, shot, stabbed; all without receiving any lasting injuries. I’ve also fought opponents with the power of a god or worse, but in our battles it felt like we were pretty evenly matched. If they did want us to get hurt, it wouldn’t be a competition; it would be a massacre.”

Taimi: “That’s true…They also seem to protect the environments that the battles take place in too. They always reset back to how they were when the match ends. But…why would anyone use such power to do something like this?”

Rytlock: “Probably entertainment.”

Taimi: “Let’s hope they don’t get bored…”

Spoiler: Snake

Snake: “Colonel. There’s a large…cat man with a fire sword.”

Taimi: “Sorry buddy, it looks like you’ve tapped into our communication network by mistake.”

Snake: “What? Who is this?”

Taimi: “This is Taimi. You must be Solid Snake. That big cat over there is Rytlock Brimstone, Tribune of the Blood Legion.”

Snake: “The Blood Legion? Is that some sort of cult?”

Rytlock: “It is not a cult.”

Taimi: “It’s a branch of the Black Citadel’s government, known for its soldiers. Rytlock here wields the human sword Sohothin. With it, he can unleash devastating fire attacks.”

Rytlock: “Hey. Don’t reveal my battle tactics to the enemy!”

Taimi: “This is supposed to be a fair fight right? You guys should know who you’re up against.”

Rytlock: “Alright then where’s my information?”

Taimi: “Oh uh…Snake’s armed to the teeth with explosives, so watch where you swing that sword.”

Rytlock: “I could have told you that…”

Snake: “I could say the same thing about the fire attacks.”

Rytlock: sighs “Let’s just start the match.”

Spoiler: Palutena

Rytlock: “I don’t think I’ve ever seen bright green hair before. Is she an adventurer?”

Marjory: “That’s Palutena, the goddess of light from another world.”

Rytlock: “She’s a god?”

Kasmeer: “Yeah, but she’s a benevolent god, so you shouldn’t have to worry too much.”

Marjory: “Even so, she has a vast array of magic at her disposal. Things like auto targeted projectiles and spontaneous explosions. When she enters her guard stance, she’s prepared to either counter any physical attacks you make, or reflect any projectiles.”

Rytlock: “Does she have any weaknesses?”

Kasmeer: “Not really. She’s a fighter that can do a little of everything.”

Marjory: “That does mean that you can use the strengths of your abilities to overwhelm her. Try switching up your tactics if she starts to exploit your weaknesses.”

Rytlock: “Won’t beating her cause some magical cataclysm like with Balthazar?”

Kasmeer: “It shouldn’t. You’re just trying to best her, not kill her.”

Palutena: “Relax Rytlock. This is a sparring match, not a fight to the death.”

Rytlock: “…How long was she listening to us?”

Spoiler: Ridley

Rytlock: “Taimi, get the Commander. There’s a dragon in Lion’s Arch!”

Taimi: “Looks like that’s another fighter from beyond The Mists. You’re on your own for this one.”

Rytlock: “What am I up against?”

Braham: “Ridley, leader of the Space Pirates.”

Rytlock: “Space Pirates?”

Taimi: “I know right? Space travel? That’s so cool!”

Braham: “These guys are ruthless though, especially Ridley. If you aren’t careful, he can drag you across the ground or skewer you with his tail.”

Taimi: “He’s also…oddly persistent. He’s been killed 4 times before it actually stuck, and almost every time he was enhanced further. And then he was cloned.”

Braham: “Ugh. Imagine if the Elder Dragons revived like that.”

Rytlock: “Let’s…not.”

Spoiler: Potential Pallet Swaps

Rytlock’s first, third, and fifth pallet swaps are based on members of his current guild, Dragon’s Watch. The second, fourth, and sixth pallet swaps use his older design, and are based off members of his first guild, Destiny’s Edge (whose members were important but aren’t currently active in the story). His last two pallet swaps use his new design, but give him his Revenant mask from the Heart of Thorns expansion.

• Rytlock: Rytlock is a large humanoid cat with four horns, four ears, and brown fur with a red patch along the top of his neck. He wears silvery grey armour, and carries a fiery sword.
• Rytlock (Old Design): Rytlock’s older armour design is still very grey, but it’s much darker, and nowhere near as shiny. He also wears what appears to be leather wrappings on his arms and legs under the armour.
• Black: Rytlock’s armour is now black with green highlights. This is based off of Marjory’s color scheme.
• Green: Rytlock’s armour is now green. This is based off of Caithe’s color scheme.
• White & Gold: Rytlock’s armour is now white and gold, and his sword’s flames are now pink. This is based off of Kasmeer’s color scheme, and the color of her magic.
• Blue: Rytlock’s armour is now blue with a gold trim. This is based off of Zojja’s color scheme.
• White and Blue: Rytlock’s armour is now completely white and blue. He wears his Revenant mask, and his sword flames are also blue. This monochromatic color scheme is based off of his son Ryland after he became Jormag’s Champion.
• Purple: Rytlock’s Armour is now purple with some gold and red in the accent colors. He also wears his Revenant mask. This is based off of Snaff, an important character to Destiny’s Edge.

Spoiler: Classic Mode: End of Dragons

• Yoshi (Yoshi’s Island)
• Corrin (Castle Siege)
• Charizard (Unova Pokémon League)
• Bowser (Find Mii)
• Robin (Reset Bomb Forest)
• Ridley (Norfair)
• Bonus
• Rathelos

The theme here is obviously fighting dragons. Bowser and Rathelos aren’t really dragons but…they’re close enough right?

Huh? Why is Robin here? Uh…don’t worry about it.

Spoiler: Music

A lot of Guild Wars’s music is very slow and atmospheric. This combined with the sheer amount of ground to cover between Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 made this quite a challenge. It also doesn’t help that I’ve never played any of Guild Wars’s expansions; only the base game, and Guild Wars 2.

• Overture (Guild Wars 2)(Remix)
  • The main theme of the Guild Wars series. It’s the “duh” track to include.
• Main Theme (Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns)
  • I’m including this song because it’s epic, and it replaced Overture when the Heart of Thorns Expansion came out.
• Rytlock(Remix)
  • A common battle theme in Ascalon, and evidentally, Rytlock’s theme.
• The Sea of Sorrows(Remix)
  • One of the more memorable tracks in Guild Wars 2. It’s a slower track, but I think with a remix it could fit as a battle theme.
• Guilds at War
  • I don’t remember if this was an exploration or battle theme, but this song plays pretty often in both Guild Wars and its sequel, and I think it would work in Super Smash Bros. as well.
• Overture from Eye of the North
  • Another song you can find in both games, and for good reason. It just exudes heroism.
• Temple of Tolerance(Remix)
  • This one holds a special place in my heart. I remember walking around Kryta, and this theme would often play. The track also appears in Guild Wars 2, but not nearly as often.
• The Darkness will Fall
  • A faster version of the Pact’s theme. I believe it plays as you gear up to fight Zhaitan.
• Here be Dragons
  • Ah yes, the theme of sitting in one spot and pressing a literal win button Zhaitan’s boss theme. This is the big bad for the base game, so I think it’s worth including.
• Fear Not This Night(Remix)
  • This one is beautiful! I do think it could do with a remix to fit as a battle theme better, but I don’t want it to be too majorly changed. Better to add the original than to ruin it entirely like they did with Counterattack. Also I would cry if there was no vocal version in this hypothetical scenario.
• Sunny Glade
  • Super Adventure Box World 1. I added this one for the lulz. Fun Fact: Rytlock was used in the advertisement for this event, and the ad includes footage of him petting a cat.
  • Also I just noticed the spoofed Nintendo Seal on the video. Cute.
• Land of the Golden Sun
  • This theme isn’t in Guild Wars 2 to my knowledge, which is a crime because hoo boy is it epic.
• Sands of Chaos/The End of War(Remix)
  • A medley of two of the battle themes from Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, one of which I’m pretty sure is Balthazar’s boss theme. I think it would be a neat medley.
• Prophecies Medley (Remix)
  • A medley containing various iconic themes from base Guild Wars. It should include themes like Sands of Kryta, Hall of Heroes, and Gwen’s Theme.
• Factions Medley (Remix)
  • A medley containing various tracks from Guild Wars’s Factions expansion. It should probably include songs like Guild Wars Factions Theme, Shing Jea Monastery, and Jade Sea.
• Nightfall Medley (Remix)
  • A medley containing various tracks from Guild Wars’s Nightfall expansion. It should probably include songs like Guardian Sunspears, The Forgotten God, and Kormir’s Theme.
• Eye of the North Medley (Remix)
  • A medley containing various tracks from Guild Wars’s Eye of the North expansion. It should contain Ballad of Ice and Snow, Under the Dark Span (Asura Theme), Horns of Gunnar’s Hold, The Shattering World (Destroyer Theme), and Song of the Shiverpeaks (Norn Theme).
  • That might be too many songs, but c’mon, Eye of the North’s soundtrack is great.

Spoiler: Spirits

• Taimi (Novice)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a small grey Isabelle that avoids you accompanied by a large blue R.O.B. on Great Bay Temple while Main Theme (Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns) plays in the background. Beat Isabelle to win.
  • Effect: Grants Made of Metal.
• Braham (Novice)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle Ganondorf on Summit with Overture of Eye of the North playing in the background. There are no gimmicks in this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit: Is Attack Type, and has 2 slots.
• Marjory (Novice)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle Bayonetta with a Killing Edge on New Donk City Hall while The Sea of Sorrows plays in the background.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit: Is Shield Type, and has 2 slots.
• Kasmeer (Novice)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a female Corrin on Lion’s Arch while pink Corrins periodically spawn in. Temple of Tolerance is the music for this battle, and you must defeat the original Corrin to win.
  • Effect: Grants Magic Attack Up.
• Caithe (Advanced)
  • Spirit Battle: Battle a green Zero Suit Samus that’s distracted by items on Distant Planet with Fear Not This Night playing in the background. After a bit, an Assist Trophy containing Rathelos will spawn in.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit: Is Grab Type, and has 2 slots.
• Logan Thackeray (Advanced)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle an off-white Link on Castle Siege. After a bit, several other medieval looking characters (other The Legend of Zelda characters, and/or Fire Emblem and Castlevania characters) will join him. The Darkness Will Fall is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Shield Durability Up.
• Eir Stegalkin (Advanced)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a golden Pit that favors Neutral Special, and a Wolf that likes to rush you down on Summit with Eye of the North Medley playing in the background. Defeat Pit to win.
  • Effect: Grants Shooting Attack Up.
• Zojja & Mr. Sparkles (Advanced)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a small purple Inkling and a large blue R.O.B. on Midgar with Guilds at War playing in the background.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit: Is Shield Type, and has 3 slots.
• Zhaitan (Ace)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a giant blue Ridley on Unova Pokémon League as various human fighters pester you. Said fighters spawn endlessly, and you must beat Ridley to win. Here be Dragons is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Death’s Scythe equipped.
• Mordremoth (Ace)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a giant green Ridley on Reset Bomb Forest as endlessly spawning Ivysaurs pester you. Defeat Ridley to win. Main Theme (Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns) is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit: Is Grab Type, and has 3 slots.
• Balthazar (Ace)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a giant red Ganondorf that spams Smash Attacks on Arena Ferox with Sands of Chaos/The End of War playing in the background.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit: Is Attack Type, has three slots, and grants weapon attack up.
• Kralkatorrik (Ace)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a giant red Bowser on Spear Pillar as endlessly spawning Dark Samuses pester you. Defeat Charizard to win. Rytlock is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit: Is Neutral Type, and has 3 slots.
• Primordus (Ace)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a giant red Charizard and a strong Incineroar on Norfair as Eye of the North Medley plays in the background. Defeat the Charizard to win.
  • Effect: Primary Spirit: Is Attack Type, has 3 slots, and grants Fire Attack Up.
• Jormag (Ace)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a blue Robin and a strong blue Rytlock on Summit as Eye of the North Medley plays in the background. Defeat Robin to win.
  • Effect: Grants Ramblin’ Evil Mushroom equipped.
• Aurene (Legend)
  • Spirit Battle: You battle a giant blue Charizard, a large blue R.O.B., Ganondorf, Bayonetta with a Killing Edge, a female Corrin, and Rytlock on Kalos Pokémon League. Defeat Charizard to win. Overture (Guild Wars 2) is the music for this battle.
  • Effect: Grants Crystal Prophecy, which gives everyone Mythra’s Foresight (perhaps a lesser version of it if necessary for balancing reasons, but that wouldn’t be as fun).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Master Chief can eat ****, Doom Slayer is the guy.

I'm not really crazy about Halo myself and If I could be over dramatic and let out some inner grudges for a few seconds...

Halo took everything away from TimeSplitters! TimeSplitters was the one to use Twin stick controls first and Halo stole it away (There was alien resurrection on the PS1 that came out two weeks before TimeSplitters but that doesn't matter)! I will have my revenge!

Ahem, Excuse me.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I'm not really crazy about Halo myself and If I could be over dramatic and let out some inner grudges for a few seconds...

Halo took everything away from TimeSplitters! TimeSplitters was the one to use Twin stick controls first and Halo stole it away (There was alien resurrection on the PS1 that came out two weeks before TimeSplitters but that doesn't matter)! I will have my revenge!

Ahem, Excuse me.

Microsoft taking concepts from others to make it big? What else is new?

 

[Perkilator]

I never thought it had a chance. They're determined to hard spread these reveals out. That way the character is gotten within a week or two instead. It's been consistent for Pass 2 to keep 'em spread out. Smash 4 had no consistent reveal schedule, and Pass 1 had to be combined with PP's development, and they had a lot of trouble getting it out, barely one month early(and it wasn't even planned to take a single year of development either. PP was, as I noted, among the same development cycle of the first DLC round). It only took a bit shorter due to having no extra stuff to do(stage, spirits, music), and only the stage would potentially take a decent amount of time. They had to reveal 2 characters at E3 to get it out at a decent time.

There's been zero sign they kept with that plan at all for Pass 2. I already figured that out they were spreading them out, with absolutely zero teasers, and making sure everyone is released very quickly within the reveal trailer. Whether it's a good business decision or not and all doesn't change that's what they blatantly went with.

I wasn't even surprised we had one reveal in June to begin with. Nor was I surprised we had one this year too. Different time was used for the entire Pass. They're going to use as much time as possible to keep the game's 3 year DLC cycle(well, technically 3 years and a few months development-wise) active, making sure they can get last minute sales. That doesn't work if they show everyone too early.

I’m no businessman, I think a ninja-gameplay teaser would be even better business-wise, because aren’t kept in the dark for so long, and have something to look forward to sometime in the fall. And in Steve’s case it could even boost sales a little.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Microsoft taking concepts from others to make it big? What else is new?

Buying out companies?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Nobody wants to admit it, but Tetsuya Nomura was responsible for the Whispers, the timeline nonsense in TWEWY, the time nonsense of Sonic '06, the entire plot of BlazBlue, the ending of the Game of Thrones TV show, the shark-jumping scene in Happy Days, and the plot twist in Macbeth.

He also poisoned our water supply, burned our crops and delivered a plague unto our houses.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I’m no businessman, I think a ninja-gameplay teaser would be even better business-wise, because aren’t kept in the dark for so long, and have something to look forward to sometime in the fall. And in Steve’s case it could even boost sales a little.

It wouldn't do much for sales of the DLC itself, though. It's more keeping people buying the game new because it's still active for 3 full years. That's much harder to do if you show all your plans too quickly.

Most of the DLC sales alone are actually super early on. The game sales keep on going, but a reveal will matter. So the longer it takes for the reveal, the longer the game itself is active and interesting to your casual customer. Also, teasers aren't effective either. People can't actually buy the character early with a teaser. They get to buy them later on when they're closer to release. You can only get the entire pass early. It's actually very bad business-wise to do so. Albeit, that's what I remember. I could be off on that.

That said, Minecraft itself is notable for the building aspect. The reveal wasn't the biggest part. Knowing how it's incorporated is what massively gets the fans. This doesn't apply to all characters, though. But some do better with reveal/release being much sooner. The presentation is important for some to get the most attention. Others... not always. Like, you didn't say, need one with Ridley himself(if he were DLC) because of how massive the fan requests are. But the presentation being super near the reveal(which is when the purchasing is generally up? I might be, as I said, wrong on that) is always better to get more customers in the long run. Besides, Steve actually didn't get a giant amount of sales compared to others. It'd have been worse if nobody knew how he'd play at all. The franchise/character isn't the only thing that'll sell the pack. Full information can be very important too.

 

[chocolatejr9]

He also poisoned our water supply, burned our crops and delivered a plague unto our houses.

HE DID!?!?!

 

[SNEKeater]

Spoiler

I didn’t know the latter part for OG VII. Better to lose only one (Aerith) than all but three of your crew

Spoiler

I don't have a problem with party members dying, but Aerith's death was supposed to reinforce some of the themes of the game, so it made sense.
By randomly killing most of your party I feel like that would have impacted Aerith's death, and her sacrifice would have lost it's meaning and significance.

Yeah, I don't BELIEVE that. They put someone else's name on it, but EVERYTHING related to the Whispers is 100% pure Nomura-brand KH nonsense. That **** was all his idea, and you can't convince me otherwise.

I mean, if you don't want to believe him, I guess that's okay. Obviously he has a say in most decisions, if not all decisions, but the same goes for Kitase or other key members. But he isn't credited as a writer in the remake, and that's not something that's up to debate.

Nojima is the only one credited as the writer, and he also wrote the OG FFVII. I would agree that he's capable of the best and the worst. I mean, he wrote that infamous audio drama that followed the events of FFX-2...

Spoiler

I got no problem with the added Sephiroth fight. In fact, I think it's a good idea. My problem is how it's implemented.

If they'd made it so you just fought him as someone he'd overwritten(like the one in the Shinra building was) that would have been great!

But instead, you're fighting, like, AC Sephiroth who is time traveling, maybe? And the result of the fightis that you're maybe not in the same timeline anymore? It's pure nonsense and set up that future parts might be completely different from the original.

And none of it makes ANY sense unless you've already played through the original, watched AC, etc. If your remake requires playing the original to understand what's going on, you have ****ing failed at making a remake.

I mean,

Spoiler

Sephiroth at this point if the OG game was never seen. Yes, Jenova is mimicking him and kills the Shinra president, but that's it on the original game. In the remake, after the party escapes, the Sephiroth we see can't be the one that is sleeping.

If you don't like the whole thing about Sephiroth from Advent Children travelling past in time to change things (assuming said fan theory ends being correct), that's fair. And I kinda see where they could **** up, but I'm on the camp where I don't mind some changes to keep things fresh. So far, while the plot ghosts could have been executed better, I'm okay with what we have seen. I can see why they would rather try something "new", within the limits of the original FFVII, because the OG game will be always be there in case the remake goes downhill or some people are not happy with it's direction.

But I disagree with you in the sense that it is needed to have watched AC to understand this. As of now, I think anyone can understand the remake. That might change with the next part, but I'd expect them to properly explain things if they decide to go super deep with references to the OG game or the movie.

I'm not worried about the next parts being drastically different though. The party will for sure visit the same places and the plot will keep the same story beats. There will be also new and expanded things, of course. I'm pretty sure the party will learn a lot more about the potential future that awaits them and all of that once they arrive to Cosmo Canyon and Talk with Nanaki's granpa, which is the only character in the original game that could help the group about this whole thing.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

HE DID!?!?!

No, but are we just gonna wait around until he does?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Microsoft taking concepts from others to make it big? What else is new?

I thought that was Sony who did that?

 

[Perkilator]

It wouldn't do much for sales of the DLC itself, though. It's more keeping people buying the game new because it's still active for 3 full years. That's much harder to do if you show all your plans too quickly.

Most of the DLC sales alone are actually super early on. The game sales keep on going, but a reveal will matter. So the longer it takes for the reveal, the longer the game itself is active and interesting to your casual customer. Also, teasers aren't effective either. People can't actually buy the character early with a teaser. They get to buy them later on when they're closer to release. You can only get the entire pass early. It's actually very bad business-wise to do so. Albeit, that's what I remember. I could be off on that.

That said, Minecraft itself is notable for the building aspect. The reveal wasn't the biggest part. Knowing how it's incorporated is what massively gets the fans. This doesn't apply to all characters, though. But some do better with reveal/release being much sooner. The presentation is important for some to get the most attention. Others... not always. Like, you didn't say, need one with Ridley himself(if he were DLC) because of how massive the fan requests are. But the presentation being super near the reveal(which is when the purchasing is generally up? I might be, as I said, wrong on that) is always better to get more customers in the long run. Besides, Steve actually didn't get a giant amount of sales compared to others. It'd have been worse if nobody knew how he'd play at all. The franchise/character isn't the only thing that'll sell the pack. Full information can be very important too.

Minecraft isn’t just any other game, though; seeing as it’s the best-selling game of all time tat still goes on today, casual audiences who enjoy the game (or at the very least, some of them) would probably be sold on the idea of Steve in Smash, gameplay or not.

 

[MattX20]

Am I the only one that feels like a lot of major Smash DLC characters that get speculated are already out of the running?

For examples to what I mean:

Any Sony or Microsoft character (and I mean fully owned, not like Banjo or Steve who can appear on other consoles) never had a shot in my eyes, nor would Nintendo ever go for it, especially not with Sony

Rayman, Shantae and Monster Hunter are all third parties that got represented in the base game, so it doesn’t really make sense for any of them to get in as DLC after the Smash team already negotiated with them to get the base game content

Seeing that the last fighter won’t be revealed at E3 I feel ruled out any major player third parties like Crash, Sora, Dante, Doomguy and so on

Things companies have added to Smash through Mii costumes such as “Altaïr” and Vault Boy should be proof enough those companies aren’t getting a DLC character. You could argue Heihachi disproves that but Heihachi was carried over from the last game and the company it’s from was still working on this game

Despite that though, I feel like pretty much most speculated first party characters can be ruled out at this point, as Nintendo doesn’t have much reason to add someone like Bandana Dee or Isaac right now

And of course, assist trophies and mii costumes aren’t getting in, if that wasn’t clear after Min Min it should’ve been crystal clear after Pythra
At this point it’s hard to say who exactly will be the last fighter but I feel like too many people are denying the reality that a lot of highly requested characters either lost their shot a while back or lost their shot once Nintendo’s E3 ended this year

I do agree that some are indeed out of the running, but there are those like Phoenix Wright and Ayumi Tachibana that could take the final spot (I'm hesitant to rule out Shantae).

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Am I the only one that feels like a lot of major Smash DLC characters that get speculated are already out of the running?

For examples to what I mean:

Any Sony or Microsoft character (and I mean fully owned, not like Banjo or Steve who can appear on other consoles) never had a shot in my eyes, nor would Nintendo ever go for it, especially not with Sony

Rayman, Shantae and Monster Hunter are all third parties that got represented in the base game, so it doesn’t really make sense for any of them to get in as DLC after the Smash team already negotiated with them to get the base game content

Seeing that the last fighter won’t be revealed at E3 I feel ruled out any major player third parties like Crash, Sora, Dante, Doomguy and so on

Things companies have added to Smash through Mii costumes such as “Altaïr” and Vault Boy should be proof enough those companies aren’t getting a DLC character. You could argue Heihachi disproves that but Heihachi was carried over from the last game and the company it’s from was still working on this game

Despite that though, I feel like pretty much most speculated first party characters can be ruled out at this point, as Nintendo doesn’t have much reason to add someone like Bandana Dee or Isaac right now

And of course, assist trophies and mii costumes aren’t getting in, if that wasn’t clear after Min Min it should’ve been crystal clear after Pythra
At this point it’s hard to say who exactly will be the last fighter but I feel like too many people are denying the reality that a lot of highly requested characters either lost their shot a while back or lost their shot once Nintendo’s E3 ended this year

So if I follow what you're saying
Im going to take a guess and say you'd probably think CP11 is either a Pokemon or a BOTW Zelda Character. Popular, non-eliminated, and promotional enough first parties.

Idk if you'd also predict a less popular third party as well. Maybe..?
What say you, Quick Gaming?

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I thought that was Sony who did that?

I’m making a joke about how Microsoft basically took Apple’s software which launched them to stardom (Apple took the software from someone else but meh)

I do agree that some are indeed out of the running, but there are those like Phoenix Wright and Ayumi Tachibana that could take the final spot (I'm hesitant to rule out Shantae).

Agree, these two are still in the running

Also I just had a thought: what if the last character is a Smash Bros OC? Like Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Tabuu or a Primid

GilTheGreat19 I’m actually leaning more towards a third party that’s known but not as prominent as Tekken, but a first party is still on the table, though the options are scarce

 

[Houndstooth]

I'm not really crazy about Halo myself and If I could be over dramatic and let out some inner grudges for a few seconds...

Halo took everything away from TimeSplitters! TimeSplitters was the one to use Twin stick controls first and Halo stole it away (There was alien resurrection on the PS1 that came out two weeks before TimeSplitters but that doesn't matter)! I will have my revenge!

Ahem, Excuse me.

So, I looked it up, and I guess neither of us were right. TimeSplitters definitely did it before Halo, so, I stand corrected. However, Alien: Resurrection, a PS1 game, actually was the first brought to console(that I could find). Just two weeks before TimeSplitters. Also, check out this quote!



It's funny how things change.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Minecraft isn’t just any other game, though; seeing as it’s the best-selling game of all time tat still goes on today, casual audiences who enjoy the game (or at the very least, some of them) would probably be sold on the idea of Steve in Smash, gameplay or not.

Honestly? Being a big game has no correlation to DLC sales. The character themselves is the most important part. And Steve is actually not that popular of a character so much as massively recognizable. These are two different things. The game itself being popular isn't the character either.

We saw that the sales for Steve were actually pretty bad compared to the rest of the DLC characters at the time.

That wouldn't have made a difference with the teaser being earlier. If anything, revealing it when the fans are all grouped together is what made the numbers still good overall sales-wise, just not as good as the other characters.

Though also, if him not being on sale immediately after the reveal(or within one week) is a thing, like I remember it being, it means you fail to capitalize on the purpose behind the reveal. To instantly get the DLC sales. So making sure the ability to get him(even on pre-order alone) is next to the reveal is the best way to get DLC sales. Or any other character by design. The only one to even be teased next to another character was Banjo & Kazooie, and they were the only DLC overall that had such a massive fan request that it could be pulled off. Which is why it worked out. Everybody else? Not even close. They may be technically bigger characters, but don't hit the fanbases as hard.

Besides, let's look at the fact they did spread them out instead of trying the teaser approach. It actually makes the game sales last longer. That's a win for Nintendo. Isn't that the point of a game sale decision? Making sure you get the most money out of it? You don't get that by doing things too early. Timing is key. Frankly, I knew something was up when only Pass 1 had anyone near each other(not at least 2 months apart reveal-wise). And that was obvious quite quickly; they had barely a year and a few months to get out 6 full characters. Reveals were often in weird spots. Pass 2 is actually organized to make the best out of the game. The only way we would've seen more reveals grouped together is if there were more characters planned after Pass 2. But now they don't need to do that. They already are making sure it lasts the full business life of the game.

Keep in mind that we're not the core demographic. Reveals being grouped together do not actually help sales that much. ...I mean, if you can't purchase the character early? Then it's not an actual good thing for business. You get sales when there's the most hype, which is during the reveal combined with the presentation. Maybe Steve would've been okay at E3 with Min Min. But then waiting another 2 months would kill the hype fast cause there's nothing to do. It would mostly rely on sales just from the fans, and they will still lose some hype.

Timing is actually that important. Let me say as someone who is in business overall. If you're going to advertise something, you need to have it available very soon or it's going to lose its luster fast. Hype is never going to last long to consistently get sales. "Strike while the iron's hot" is what Nintendo is doing right now.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So, I looked it up, and I guess neither of us were right. TimeSplitters definitely did it before Halo, so, I stand corrected. However, Alien: Resurrection, a PS1 game, actually was the first brought to console(that I could find). Just two weeks before TimeSplitters. Also, check out this quote!

View attachment 320684

It's funny how things change.

Yeah like you and I both said, Alien Resurrection did it first but TimeSplitters is the spiritual successor to both Goldeneye and Perfect Dark where in fact they both also did twin stick controls when you switch to the 2.0 control style (Where you had to hold two controllers at once) and Free Radical was founded in 1999 so they probably started development of TimeSplitters right then and there so...

TimeSplitters wins by heritage!

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Also I just had a thought: what if the last character is a Smash Bros OC? Like Master Hand, Crazy Hand, Tabuu or a Primid

GilTheGreat19 GilTheGreat19 I’m actually leaning more towards a third party that’s known but not as prominent as Tekken, but a first party is still on the table, though the options are scarce

I've seen some people say the Mii fighters are Smash OC because while Mii characters were a thing, they were never fighters, and giving them "styles" of fighting like being a brawler, makes them Smash OCs
I kinda disagree with this idea, but I'd be so down for a playable Primid

So...a third party on a similar level as Kazuya...
So big but not that big..?
Here's the thing:

Tekken, as a franchise, has sold over 50M units.

Series that have accomplished a similar feat but have 0 content in Smash include but are not limited to:
( BTW I'll make a list based on ^ and based on what YOU personally don't think will happen (just for simplicity))

• The Far Cry series from Ubisoft
• The Diablo series from Blizzard
• The Mortal Kombat series from NetherRealm
• The Battlefield Series from EA
• The Elder Scrolls Series from Bethesda

To back this up, here's a wikiPedia list of the best selling game franchises, with sale numbers on the right.

List of best-selling video game franchises - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Notice something? Yep, they're all western franchises.
From these games, I'd say Diablo and Dovahkiin are good picks. UNLESS Sakurai has a surprise up his sleeve and we are blessed with Scorpion, I can't see 2 FG characters back to back happening. I also doubt our first ever Ubisoft rep will be someone form Far Cry, and EA? I'd actually argue they'd wanna push for Crazy Dave from PvZ; I can't see a Battlefield rep.


Edit: Just reread your personal list, I guess we can cross off Far Cry and Elder Scrolls here.
Maybe we can replace those two games with, say:

• The Red Dead series from Rockstar
• The Borderlands series from Gearbox

I forgot that you personally think that "Things companies have added to Smash through Mii costumes such as “Altaïr” and Vault Boy should be proof enough those companies aren’t getting a DLC character. You could argue Heihachi disproves that but Heihachi was carried over from the last game and the company it’s from was still working on this game"
My fault haha

 

[Perkilator]

Honestly? Being a big game has no correlation to DLC sales. The character themselves is the most important part. And Steve is actually not that popular of a character so much as massively recognizable. These are two different things. The game itself being popular isn't the character either.

We saw that the sales for Steve were actually pretty bad compared to the rest of the DLC characters at the time.

That wouldn't have made a difference with the teaser being earlier. If anything, revealing it when the fans are all grouped together is what made the numbers still good overall sales-wise, just not as good as the other characters.

Though also, if him not being on sale immediately after the reveal(or within one week) is a thing, like I remember it being, it means you fail to capitalize on the purpose behind the reveal. To instantly get the DLC sales. So making sure the ability to get him(even on pre-order alone) is next to the reveal is the best way to get DLC sales. Or any other character by design. The only one to even be teased next to another character was Banjo & Kazooie, and they were the only DLC overall that had such a massive fan request that it could be pulled off. Which is why it worked out. Everybody else? Not even close. They may be technically bigger characters, but don't hit the fanbases as hard.

Besides, let's look at the fact they did spread them out instead of trying the teaser approach. It actually makes the game sales last longer. That's a win for Nintendo. Isn't that the point of a game sale decision? Making sure you get the most money out of it? You don't get that by doing things too early. Timing is key. Frankly, I knew something was up when only Pass 1 had anyone near each other(not at least 2 months apart reveal-wise). And that was obvious quite quickly; they had barely a year and a few months to get out 6 full characters. Reveals were often in weird spots. Pass 2 is actually organized to make the best out of the game. The only way we would've seen more reveals grouped together is if there were more characters planned after Pass 2. But now they don't need to do that. They already are making sure it lasts the full business life of the game.

Keep in mind that we're not the core demographic. Reveals being grouped together do not actually help sales that much. ...I mean, if you can't purchase the character early? Then it's not an actual good thing for business. You get sales when there's the most hype, which is during the reveal combined with the presentation. Maybe Steve would've been okay at E3 with Min Min. But then waiting another 2 months would kill the hype fast cause there's nothing to do. It would mostly rely on sales just from the fans, and they will still lose some hype.

Timing is actually that important. Let me say as someone who is in business overall. If you're going to advertise something, you need to have it available very soon or it's going to lose its luster fast. Hype is never going to last long to consistently get sales. "Strike while the iron's hot" is what Nintendo is doing right now.

Hold up; if anything, I think Steve’s initial sales may be chalked up to the reveal and release not having much breathing room.

I think revealing Steve a few months in advance might give more time for people to buy the corresponding DLC.