Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[GilTheGreat19]

Real Time Strategy (would Pikmin count tho?)

I think it would, but in that case Olimar/Alph counts as a solo playable rep of the genre.

 

[Stratos]

The Abe from the Oddworld series would enter the PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale but that did not happen, but he may be given the opportunity to come as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series. and for Final Smash to have his transformation into Shrykull. For alternative costumes I thought the green color of slaves Mudokons and colors acquire depending on their condition from Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus as shown in the pictures below:

Light Blue (his own color), green (Mudokon slave), red (angry), blue (depressed), yellow (wired), dark green (sick) and grey (blind). For 8th costume maybe brown based from Stranger the protagonist of the game the Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Honestly tho if Darkest Dungeon got even a Spirit Event or Mii I will literally record myself in a public gathering shouting “POGGERS”

I will be that excited, it’s my first experience with roguelikes and one of my favorites


also in case it’s not obvious I am imploring you lot to PLAY DARKEST DUNGEON. It’s on sale on Steam rn!

 

[SKX31]

Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate. To make a long story short, it's games like Civilization.

In other words, SKX31 's home turf

Well, pretty much, after I moved into that corner of Smash Speculation and began to mine, craft and build städæ- Abruptly shifts into speaking Viking.

• Real Time Strategy (would Pikmin count tho?)

Depends on how one defines it really, although I lean yes:

On one hand, resource management and army management - both of which key parts in a RTS - are central to Pikmin as well. Pikmin also has some aspects of micro-managing (splitting up groups, swapping between captains / groups etc.), which again is characteristic of other RTSes as well. Avoiding casualities is also vital to Pikmin - you don't want to lose too many fighting a bigger creature, and the same goes for other RTSes. An ill-timed Zergling rush that gets stopped by Terran Hellion cars can spell doom for the Zerg player.

On the other, Pikmin's a wholly PvE game with no PvP - while PvP is not neccessarily a requirement for RTSes most RTSes have nevertheless relied a lot on that in order to substain interest in the games for a while (see StarCraft, WarCraft and Age of Empires). The time pressure is also different between Pikmin and other RTSes - Pikmin's time pressure - when present - is based upon specific days or running out of plot-related stuff, other RTSes' time pressure come in the form off getting to your own army's power spike while preventing / mitigating the other player's power spike (said power spike is strategy-dependent, whether we're talking the infamous Zergling rush or a timing around more powerful units). There is also not a whole lot of base building in Pikmin, which does simplify the management but also means that there's not that many possible paths to take.

I'm inclined to say that it is a PvE RTS with a puzzle-heavy focus.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Honestly tho if Darkest Dungeon got even a Spirit Event or Mii I will literally record myself in a public gathering shouting “POGGERS”

I will be that excited, it’s my first experience with roguelikes and one of my favorites


also in case it’s not obvious I am imploring you lot to PLAY DARKEST DUNGEON. It’s on sale on Steam rn!

I mean...
We got a Warframe spirit
anything's possible

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wonder how long it will be before people get bored of Kazuya. Doesn't the honeymoon. For Smash characters last like a week?

Sephiroth is still enjoyed a lot with the competitive scene, so are Pyra and Mythra.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sephiroth is still enjoyed a lot with the competitive scene, so are Pyra and Mythra.

I'm sure a bunch of casuals will try Kazuya, get a headache, and then drop him. lol

Probably me included, but we'll see.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm sure a bunch of casuals will try Kazuya, get a headache, and then drop him. lol

Probably me included, but we'll see.

I myself never could even be bothered with Ryu and Ken, neither with Terry. But! I do appriciate these characters being added, with their original movesets in tact, even with the inputs and all. That's mastercraftmanship right there. And it does really add to Smash being considered a more serious fighting game overall.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I wonder how long it will be before people get bored of Kazuya. Doesn't the honeymoon. For Smash characters last like a week?

Honestly it depends on the character.

Min Min and Steve for instance fell off a ton. Sephiroth meanwhile is one of the most common characters I see. Kazuya likely will have a shorter honeymoon in terms of being every smash match online due to likely being hard, but he likely will settle in similar to Terry.

 

[MattX20]

The one thing that is certain is the gates of Smash speculation will be opened one last time after Kazuya's presentation is concluded and released next week. It's basically the Wild West going forward.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I can't wait.

we're still waiting for the first Smash game with functional online https://t.co/dYzjqboaqf

— 💛🤍 Mat 💜🖤 (@MatttGFX) June 26, 2021

 

[cothero]

One thing that caught my attention in how little the smash community knows about fighting games - and we're talking about a game that is primarily based on fighting mechanics. I already see many people comparing Kazuya to Terry when he's not even released yet, plus the erroneous use of the "shoto" designation left and right. That and many other things make me feel that smash players are indeed not fighting game fans, only a small portion really enjoys the genre to it's core and knows enought to not talk ****.

 

[MattX20]

One thing that caught my attention in how little the smash community knows about fighting games - and we're talking about a game that is primarily based on fighting mechanics. I already see many people comparing Kazuya to Terry when he's not even released yet, plus the erroneous use of the "shoto" designation. That and many other things make me feel that smash players are indeed not fighting game fans, only a small portion really enjoys the genre to it's core and knows enought to not talk ****.

Maximillian Dood did a pretty good breakdown of the whole situation and what shotos actually are. Most of it stems from design similarities more than anything

 

[DarthEnderX]

What did Nomura do to you to illicit such a reaction?

I told you, he ruined FF. Which, back in the SNES era, was my absolute favorite video game series, but nowadays mostly sucks and aren't even JRPGs anymore.

Also, FFVII Remake is in my opinion the best thing to happen to Final Fantasy in a long time and he was it's director, at least for Part I.

FF7R would have been a nearly perfect game...if not for the timeghost bull**** he added that undermines the entire game and makes it so it's not even really a remake.

I really love Nomura’s older character designs like Sephiroth,Vincent, Squall, Lulu, and Xemnas but he can get a little carried away as a director. A lot of his stories are overly complicated and I dislike the fact that they refuse to make another turn based Final Fantasy.

The guy was a fantastic monster designer back in FF5 and 6. But that's where he should have stayed. As a character designer, he used up all his good ideas right out of the gate, then immediately dropped off a cliff.

Is it REALLY a trap if you don't wanna leave?

Those are the best kinds of traps.

 

[Deleted member]

I think a Dynasty Warriors character is more than deserving of a place in Smash but maybe Nintendo or Sakurai is hesitant based on the fact that they are based on real people. I think they are exaggerated unique enough to basically count as original characters, kind of like CastleVania’s Dracula so I would be totally fine with it. Lu Bu would make for an awesome and really unique Smash fighter and he’s among my most wanted.

Whenever I brought up Dynasty Warriors, that was the biggest argument people had against Dynasty Warriors being added to Smash, to which I'd always respond with 1 major thing to remember:

Dynasty Warriors is a Video Game Franchise. People tend to act like you can't add them over what the game is based on as if it's Dragon Ball, but unlike that series, Dynasty Warriors has always been a video game franchise and isn't bound to a licensing nightmare. Plus, it's Koei-Tecmo's depiction of those characters and events with gameplay elements that can fit with Smash, so it's not like they have no chance at all.

And consider the fact that Nintendo greenlit multiple Musou games under 2 of their IPs. They definitely like the concept enough for it to get games published by them, so adding it to Smash wouldn't be some dumb hurdle of debating if it's video gamey enough. Not to mention how a lead dev of Gust straight up said Atelier isn't on Nintendo's radar and a lead dev of Team Ninja said there's no plans for Hayabusa to be in Smash would lead you to wonder if Omega-Force were contacted by Nintendo/Sakurai for a Challenger Pack or not.

ROGUELIKES. Come on y’all, Darkest Dungeon is my **** I wish ppl talked about Roguelikes more

Funny enough, Sakurai's latest Famitsu Column was about Roguelikes and Soulslikes:

This thread is a translation of Sakurai's recent Famitsu Column #631 posted on @AllSourceGaming! Sakurai talks Roguelikes & Soulslikes.
Watch it here: https://t.co/B1uASEgkip

This translation was done by @brando_themando and myself.
Please credit us if you use our translations. pic.twitter.com/o3X3xZVJtI

— Kody NOKOLO (@KodyNOKOLO) June 24, 2021

 

[Perkilator]

I can't wait.

we're still waiting for the first Smash game with functional online https://t.co/dYzjqboaqf

— 💛🤍 Mat 💜🖤 (@MatttGFX) June 26, 2021

At least Ultimate isn’t nearly as bad as Brawl’s was not like that’s a very high bar to begin with

 

[chocolatejr9]

I told you, he ruined FF. Which, back in the SNES era, was my absolute favorite video game series, but nowadays mostly sucks and aren't even JRPGs anymore.

FF7R would have been a nearly perfect game...if not for the timeghost bull**** he added that undermines the entire game and makes it so it's not even really a remake.

The guy was a fantastic monster designer back in FF5 and 6. But that's where he should have stayed. As a character designer, he used up all his good ideas right out of the gate, then immediately dropped off a cliff.

Those are the best kinds of traps.

So basically, you hate Nomura because you're an NES/SNES fanboy?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Maximillian Dood did a pretty good breakdown of the whole situation and what shotos actually are. Most of it stems from design similarities more than anything

Shotoclone is an odd one. It also depends where you're looking for for a definition. TVTropes refers to specific moves, not just "style". And it notes when things aren't a true shotoclone, but mostly has the parts. It doesn't even list Fulgore, who is based upon the concept, having a Rushdown move, a full Fireball move, and the Shoryuken itself. However, he doesn't play like one either, which seems to matter more.

...It's complicated. Also, bootleg games loves to use them. Like Kart Fighter is basically Street Fighter with Mario characters. Mario and Luigi are obviously Ryu and Ken. I don't remember who fit who otherwise. Since it's based upon Super Mario Kart. M.U.G.E.N. I think based Toad upon this too, or it's just cause a Shotoclone is damn easy to make in the program.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Wait, wasn't the ghost plot thing in FF7R added by someone else that isn't Nomura?

 

[Technomage]

What I wanna know is what was FF7R's ending like? I heard it's as complex as a Kingdom Hearts plot.

 

[warubyun]

Well, pretty much, after I moved into that corner of Smash Speculation and began to mine, craft and build städæ- Abruptly shifts into speaking Viking.

Your forward smash hasn't connected, my friend. All too easy to counter. (Framanberja þinn fara varhluta, vinr minn. Árás væri at jafna um.)

 

[UserKev]

I myself never could even be bothered with Ryu and Ken, neither with Terry. But! I do appriciate these characters being added, with their original movesets in tact, even with the inputs and all. That's mastercraftmanship right there. And it does really add to Smash being considered a more serious fighting game overall.

I kinda disagree. While Ryu, Ken and Terry all make sense to be added, Smash don't need them to be considered a "serious fighter" Smash was already skillful in its own way with some characters being more difficult to utilize. Any traditional fighter added to Smash is NOT the answer.

I just want Smash to be its own unique concept..

 

[SNEKeater]

I told you, he ruined FF. Which, back in the SNES era, was my absolute favorite video game series, but nowadays mostly sucks and aren't even JRPGs anymore.

FF7R would have been a nearly perfect game...if not for the timeghost bull**** he added that undermines the entire game and makes it so it's not even really a remake.

The guy was a fantastic monster designer back in FF5 and 6. But that's where he should have stayed. As a character designer, he used up all his good ideas right out of the gate, then immediately dropped off a cliff.

Those are the best kinds of traps.

I mean, no offense but I'm kinda tired of people treating Nomura like he is the boogeyman and the responsible for every bad decision at Square. And I'm not even a fan of him.

To begin with he didn't write the remake, and ideas such as

Spoiler

fighting Sephiroth (which were heavily criticized by some fans) at the end was a suggestion from other members and not his idea, for example, as he explained in an interview. He isn't responsible, or the only one, for the plot ghosts. These things were pretty much necessary to make the player realize the whole remake project won't be exactly 1:1. In fact, it's treated like a sequel, according to fan theories but that's another discussion.

People only blames him for decisions they don't like, when sometimes he wasn't even behind those decisions, or at least not the only one. I think him being the creator of Kingdom Hearts has kinda twisted some people, to be honest. Like, people memes a lot about KH, and others took those jokes too seriously.
Not to say, people likes to forget some of his good ideas and focus with things they disliked. He was the one who suggested (spoilers for FFVII in general)

Spoiler

to kill Aerith back then, or the one who suggested not to kill the whole party except the 3 playable characters you picked, when you have to go back to Midgar before the final part. Yeah, Sakaguchi, Kitase and Nojima originally planned to kill most of the party when the group had to descend into Midgar from Cid's airship.

I don't know, I feel like some people will still blame him for whatever they will dislike about FFVIIR 2, even when he isn't even going to be the director for the next part. There's a certain misinformation around when it comes to him and which decisions he actually made and some folks don't really care as long as they have an easy target to aim all their discontent.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I kinda disagree. While Ryu, Ken and Terry all make sense to be added, Smash don't need them to be considered a "serious fighter" Smash was already skillful in its own way with some characters being more difficult to utilize. Any traditional fighter added to Smash is NOT the answer.

I just want Smash to be its own unique concept..

I agree with you, it doesn't need these fighters to be taken seriously. But it's just another argument, and the transition goes beautifully. I can appriciate at least that, even if the characters themselves aren't my personal favorites. I mean, Smash Bros. is now also the biggest fighting game series crossover due to this. That's dope.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I kinda disagree. While Ryu, Ken and Terry all make sense to be added, Smash don't need them to be considered a "serious fighter" Smash was already skillful in its own way with some characters being more difficult to utilize. Any traditional fighter added to Smash is NOT the answer.

I just want Smash to be its own unique concept..

It is. The platform fighter is a very unique concept in the context of fighting games.

Smash fans are just tired of the FGC's "lol silly party game" attitude towards it. Granted, it is a party game, but it's also a legitimate fighting game and it should be treated as such.

Though considering it's at EVO every year, it kind of already is.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean, no offense but I'm kinda tired of people treating Nomura like he is the boogeyman and the responsible for every bad decision at Square. And I'm not even a fan of him.

To begin with the didn't write the remake, and ideas such as

Spoiler

fighting Sephiroth (which were heavily criticized by some fans) at the end was a suggestion from other members and not his idea, for example, as he explained in an interview. He isn't responsible, or the only one, for the plot ghosts. These things were pretty much necessary to make the player realize the whole remake project won't be exactly 1:1. In fact, it's treated like a sequel, according to fan theories but that's another discussion.

People only blames him for decisions they don't like, when sometimes he wasn't even behind those decisions, or at least not the only one. I think him being the creator of Kingdom Hearts has kinda twisted some people, to be honest. Like, people memes a lot about KH, and others took those jokes too seriously.
Not to say, people likes to forget some of his good ideas and focus with things they disliked. He was the one who suggested (spoilers for FFVII in general)

Spoiler

to kill Aerith back then, or the one who suggested not to kill the whole party except the 3 playable characters you picked, when you have to go back to Midgar before the final part. Yeah, Sakaguchi, Kitase and Nojima originally planned to kill most of the party when the group had to descend into Midgar from Cid's airship.

I don't know, I feel like some people will still blame him for whatever they will dislike about FFVIIR 2, even when he isn't even going to be the director for the next part. There's a certain misinformation around when it comes to him and which decisions he actually made and some folks don't really care as long as they have an easy target to aim all their discontent.

Spoiler

I didn’t know the latter part for OG VII. Better to lose only one (Aerith) than all but three of your crew

 

[cothero]

I know there's a lot of options for genres not represented in smash yet, but a FPS character to wrap the second pass would be really cool.

And when i think on FPS, i think of DOOM. Considered by many as the most important game of it's genre; had games released on Nintendo consoles; awesome OST by Mick Gordon.

Master Chief can eat ****, Doom Slayer is the guy.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Master Chief can eat ****, Doom Slayer is the guy.

I wouldn't be that harsh, but part of the reason I couldn't stand the rise of Master Chief speculation for E3 is because Id and Valve are where I go for my FPSs of choice. Either way though I wouldn't expect such a huge goddamn deal to end the pass.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Oh right, Sony owns EVO now.
Wonder if Smash will be part of this year's lineup.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Oh right, Sony owns EVO now.
Wonder if Smash will be part of this year's lineup.

EVO's site doesn't have Smash listed.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I know there's a lot of options for genres not represented in smash yet, but a FPS character to wrap the second pass would be really cool.

And when i think on FPS, i think of DOOM. Considered by many as the most important game of it's genre; had games released on Nintendo consoles; awesome OST by Mick Gordon.

Master Chief can eat ****, Doom Slayer is the guy.

I mean I grew up on Halo and it’s hard to ignore that Halo owned the FPS Genre between 2001 and 2010 almost a whole decade and it’s still going strong. One of the strongest FPS game franchises ever. That said I see Doom’s legacy, and since I love Doom, I’m much more inclined to say that Doom Slayer is a better choice. I won’t deny that I’d lose my **** over both of them but Master Chief would probably tug on my heart strings a lot more.

 

[AreJay25]

Oh right, Sony owns EVO now.
Wonder if Smash will be part of this year's lineup.

EVO is online only again IIRC.

And Smash's online is, uh... yeah.

 

[Twilord]

I kinda hope every Bandai Namco character who gets a Mii Fighter gets tossed in lava.


If that is the case, I kinda hope Koromon is a headgear...

 

[Schnee117]

EVO is online only again IIRC.

And Smash's online is, uh... yeah.

To be fair they still have Street Fighter and Tekken there despite their online being subpar.
But Smash's online is a whole other level of ****.

 

[chocolatejr9]

EVO is online only again IIRC.

And Smash's online is, uh... yeah.

Shush. We need this to fuel our anti-Sony campaign...

 

[Guynamednelson]

Shush. We need this to fuel our anti-Sony campaign...

More like our anti-Smash's current netcode campaign.

 

[Technomage]

After watching a couple of vids speculating about Kaz's release date, I have a question about the maintenance period mentioned: How long do they usually last?

 

[chocolatejr9]

More like our anti-Smash's current netcode campaign.

Nah, that ain't getting fixed. Sooner we accept that, the better.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So basically, you hate Nomura because you're an NES/SNES fanboy?

If that's your takeaway from my thinking that the series has gotten progressively worse since 6, then sure.

To begin with the didn't write the remake

Yeah, I don't BELIEVE that. They put someone else's name on it, but EVERYTHING related to the Whispers is 100% pure Nomura-brand KH nonsense. That **** was all his idea, and you can't convince me otherwise.

Spoiler

fighting Sephiroth (which were heavily criticized by some fans) at the end was a suggestion from other members and not his idea, for example, as he explained in an interview. He isn't responsible, or the only one, for the plot ghosts. These things were pretty much necessary to make the player realize the whole remake project won't be exactly 1:1. In fact, it's treated like a sequel, according to fan theories but that's another discussion.

Spoiler

I got no problem with the added Sephiroth fight. In fact, I think it's a good idea. My problem is how it's implemented.

If they'd made it so you just fought him as someone he'd overwritten(like the one in the Shinra building was) that would have been great!

But instead, you're fighting, like, AC Sephiroth who is time traveling, maybe? And the result of the fightis that you're maybe not in the same timeline anymore? It's pure nonsense and set up that future parts might be completely different from the original.

And none of it makes ANY sense unless you've already played through the original, watched AC, etc. If your remake requires playing the original to understand what's going on, you have ****ing failed at making a remake.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

After watching a couple of vids speculating about Kaz's release date, I have a question about the maintenance period mentioned: How long do they usually last?

Not sure but I know with the exception of Terry the DLC fighters have released around the same time frame, not that I remember that time frame