Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m surprised with all the Ubisoft speculation after the TMNT leak. Thought that would have nipped it right in the bud, seemed pretty cut and dry.

You do understand how this statement without context is incredibly confusing, right?

 

[Schnee117]

When it comes to AC I've only really read through TV Tropes a while back, but I think I remember that the different characters tend to have different weapons from game to game; The two examples I remember are Altair not having all of Ezio's fancy gadgets and Connor being associated with an axe rather than swords or the Hidden Blades. I haven't actually played any of the games, though, so I'm not sure I can give an educated opinion on whether or not a multi-character slot could work.

Then again, we did get Enderman somehow...

Altair does get some of Ezio's gear because he "invented" them for lack of a better term but that's not until he's significantly older.

You could do both characters in that instance but all other playable characters would largely be their own thing.

 

[Deleted member]

Final Fighter Predictions GO!
I’m feeling like it’s probably Euden lmao.

I only have 2 ideas to the final character even if I'm not confident in them anymore.

1 of which is a Koei-Tecmo rep being from Dynasty Warriors since I've been hoping for this to happen for years now. We know Hayabusa and Ryza are not in the running anymore with a member of their respective dev team (Team Ninja and Gust) outright saying Nintendo has no plans for them, so the only real contender here is a Musou character given a: nobody has interviewed Omega-Force or any higher ups in KT about it as I speak and b: Musou is Koei-Tecmo's specialty cash cow and 1 of the main things they're known for. A Dynasty Warriors character being last also sounds pretty fitting given it's probably the only series that could match with Ultimate in terms of roster size, so to end Ultimate with a series with a roster as big as theirs would be pretty neat. KT have pretty much partnered with Nintendo on multiple IPs for almost a decade now, so for all those partnerships to go for nothing in regards to Smash leaves me peeved.

The other is a character from a recently released game after Ultimate mainly after Three Houses. While this does not support the idea of Vol 2 being themed around putting scrapped content/ideas for Smash in Vol 2, I don't think Nintendo would want to miss out on the opportunity of putting a fairly relevant character from a fairly new game to Smash since that character would be fresh on the minds of a lot of people. Corrin and Byleth would fall under this category given they had relatively new games prior to when they were revealed (I'd also say Bayo counts too but that pretty much depends on what you think of the period between Bayo 2 and the Smash reveal). I could definitely see the last character being from such category, but the only thing about it is the only suitable candidate for that would have to be from Pokemon since it's 1 of the biggest Nintendo properties out there that gets regularly released games each year and has more than enough content to add to Smash even with what it already has. Of course, another Pokemon would just be Byleth 2 in terms of reception (especially if it's from Sword and Shield), but looking at all the 1st Party games that released after Three Houses to the end of Vol 2, there really isn't any other option out there that's bigger than Pokemon to me. You could say New Horizons and eveything BOTW related are, but given how it's implied Sakurai wants to make every DLC character different from each other and the rest of the cast through their movesets, I doubt another Animal Crossing character would be drastically different to Villager and Isabelle. As far as BOTW is concerned, I don't see a Challenger Pack dedicated to Age of Calamity, and the release to BOTW 2 is way too far ahead of the end of Vol 2 to get content, so it's pretty much too late for that 1. Every other release was either a port, a Mario game, or new games/IPs that were probably too late for Vol 2 just like ARMS and XBC 2 were for Base Game. It's not like Sakurai has an eye on every single game Nintendo's currently developing you know.

Despite all I mentioned, there is a part of me that hopes Zagreus from Hades would be the 1 to end Vol 2 under this category. Sure, you can say it's pointless to hope it'll happen because it's still freshly new and there's other 3rd Party characters out there that sound likelier, but at the same time, Early Access made Hades available for everyone before the game officially launched, and it did receive a great amount of nominations/awards for 2020. If you look at Hades' Steam page, you could even see the awards they've won throughout 2020. Sure, it would've taken so much investment for Nintendo to foresee Supergiant's success with Hades being this huge as it is even when they were already a fairly established studio before that game with Bastion and Transistor to add Zag in Smash, but hey, they also invested in Bayonetta 2 and also got Bayo in Smash through the Ballot no matter what your thoughts are on that.

Overall, my expectations are another Pokemon because it's the likeliest out of every other character out there, but my last hopes are either a Dynasty Warriors character or Zagreus even with how unlikely it'd be. It's a shame Ultimate is ending on Vol 2 cause none of the DLC characters in Ultimate are 1s that I've wanted to see in Smash, so with 1 character left, I'll stick with Pokemon being it and hope whatever is chosen is something silly like Dracovish.

 

[JamesDNaux]

When it comes to AC I've only really read through TV Tropes a while back, but I think I remember that the different characters tend to have different weapons from game to game; The two examples I remember are Altair not having all of Ezio's fancy gadgets and Connor being associated with an axe rather than swords or the Hidden Blades. I haven't actually played any of the games, though, so I'm not sure I can give an educated opinion on whether or not a multi-character slot could work.

They've all got the hidden blades and can use swords and throwing knives (except apparently Connor since I can't find anything about it on the wiki, but it wouldn't be that much of a stretch), Altair and Ezio play basically the same at least, so it'd translate well enough into a Smash moveset. Connor and Edward can use guns but it wouldn't be the first time someone went around fighting without their guns. Any one of the assassin's would probably just end up another swordsman (go figure) with a bit of punching and hidden blade stabbing here and there. I'm sold on just the idea of the assassination animation being their down throw.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I’m surprised with all the Ubisoft speculation after the TMNT leak. Thought that would have nipped it right in the bud, seemed pretty cut and dry.

Inb4 there’s actually a Brawlhalla x Street Fighter crossover

 

[JamesDNaux]

I’m surprised with all the Ubisoft speculation after the TMNT leak. Thought that would have nipped it right in the bud, seemed pretty cut and dry.

With how tight security on Smash is, do you really believe some guy just because he got Brawhalla info right?


But honestly we're all missing the real elephant in the room here. You know who else was supposedly deconfirmed thanks to a Mii costume? That's right.





Mallow confirmed.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

A Dynasty Warriors character COULD tie in with the game Dynasty Warriors 9:Empires

It’s supposed to release this sometime this year.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

You could probably make a lot of the Assassin's mix around with each other by only using the basics of the Assassin's toolset; Hidden blades, Knives, swords, fists and throwing knives but if we narrow it down you could easily use just Altair and Ezio. They're interchangeable almost because of the weapons they're known for and the retro continuity of Revelations. It's revealed in Revelations that Altair used the Apple of Eden to peer into, presumably, Ezio's future and build the hidden gun that Ezio received from Leonardo Da Vinci. Add that with the fact that they both use the hidden gun, the double hidden blade, swords, knives, crossbows, hammers, and more and you can make quite a stellar moveset by just building it off them.

Even if you just use Ezio, he has more than enough alternative depictions of himself across his many games and in turn, his entire life. AC2's costume, ACB's, ACR's, the Altair Armor, Armor of Brutus, his Florentine Noble Attire, the Turkish Assassin Armor, and the Helmschmied Drachen Armor are all in game outfits that Ezio obtains between the games and they all have very distinctive differences between them.

I really don't know who I would prefer between the two to make it first. On one hand AC is one of the biggest franchises out there and would draw a lot of attention to Smash with that alone. On the other, Rayman is hugely popular within the Smash fanbase and overall carries more of a familial bond with Nintendo and it's fans that AC simply doesn't have. It really is a toss up. That is IF we ever get a Ubisoft character.

Altair and the Rabbid costume DID come out with Byleth so if only eariler Mii Costumes are being considered then Rayman and Ezio are definitely still on the table. Then again Heihachi was with Min Min of all characters at the beginning of this pass so there's really no telling.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

So here’s the thing concerning this Rayman vs Ezio war

The Creeper and Pig mii costumes, right?
Limbless arms…
Yea, Rayman could get mii brawler’d and have limbless arms no problem.

Not saying he won’t happen, but this possibility might hinder his chances a bit.

 

[MrMcNuts]

With how tight security on Smash is, do you really believe some guy just because he got Brawhalla info right?


But honestly we're all missing the real elephant in the room here. You know who else was supposedly deconfirmed thanks to a Mii costume? That's right.





Mallow confirmed.

Didn't Sakurai say that even some people at Nintendo didn't know byleth was happening or am I thinking of something else?

 

[rychu_supadude]

I just played Ass Creed for the first time and I'm in the middle of playing 2 and man, it'd actually be a cool inclusion to Smash, just... after Rayman.

I think the best way to do it would be to pull a Hero and have Altair, Ezio, Connor, and Edward as alts of each other. Maybe collectively call them Desmond.



Anyway, one thing I noticed is that pass 2 has yet to introduce a new company to Smash, it'd be the first round of DLC not to do so, including Smash 4's.
View attachment 319771

Just food for speculation.

Eh, when it gets to that level of reach you might as well go for a "Konami is the only company with playable rep that's never had a DLC character and they only have 2 costumes" theory.

This is how the NES wins its ultimate victory.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think the best way to do it would be to pull a Hero and have Altair, Ezio, Connor, and Edward as alts of each other. Maybe collectively call them Desmond.

I love how this sentence would make absolutely no sense in any other context lol.

"Yeah, just put these 4 characters in the same slot and call all of them 'Desmond' or something."

Seriously, though, what about other weapons besides knives and swords? I remember Ezio gets some kinda handgun or something in his later games, are there enough common elements between the Assassins' respective weapons to make it work?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

For Koei though, while I’m aware Sakurai doesn’t have as strong of a say as Nintendo in the DLC, I’m sure he’d advocate for Hayabusa given how much he loves NES era characters.

Only way I can see a Dynasty Warriors character happen is if I come to understand that Nintendo saw the latter move as a better marketing move, which is possible.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

For Koei though, while I’m aware Sakurai doesn’t have as strong of a say as Nintendo in the DLC, I’m sure he’d advocate for Hayabusa given how much he loves NES era characters.

Only way I can see a Dynasty Warriors character happen is if I come to understand that Nintendo saw the latter move as a better marketing move, which is possible.

I mean, that’s fair I suppose but marketing would be just as plausible for Hayabusa considering the Master Collection just came out. Which you all should totally go buy.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Betting on amongst the following as our last fighter.

1st party character (Dixie Kong, King Boo, Octoling/Off the Hook (Pearl & Marina), Pokemon)
Capcom character
Crash Bandicoot
Arle Nadja
Indie character (Frisk, Reimu, or Shantae)
Master Chief

Not expecting any assist promotions.

Watch that I'm most likely 100% wrong on all of these.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay. There are a lot of theories that are going around, but I'm actually going to state a theory that I've been developing for a while now. This theory goes back all the way to the base game and shows how some elements of the design process have changed.

The catch? It's about stages. Not characters.

I call it, Cameo Theory.

Every new stage in Ultimate has included character cameos (barring Smash OG stages like new versions of BF or FD).

Let's take a look.

New Donk City Hall: Pauline, Her Band
Great Plateau Tower: The Old Man
Moray Towers: Judd and Lil' Judd
Dracula's Castle: Dracula, Kid Dracula, Lots of monsters
Mementos: All of the Phantom Thieves
Yggdrasil's Altar: Slimes, Mimic, Cetacea
Spiral Mountain: Bottles, Mumbo, Tooty, Gruntilda
King of Fighters Stadium: I'm not listing then all.
Gareg Mach Monastery: Three characters from each path
Spring Stadium: The entire playable ARMS cast
Minecraft World: Villagers, Animals, Mobs
Northern Cave: Highwind, Lady Luck, JENOVA cocoon
Cloud Sea of Alrest: Gramps, The main party members of XC2
Mishima Temple: Heihachi

Every stage added in Ultimate has a character cameo.

So how does this help us determine anything? Well the last character will have a stage with cameos in it!

Does that help us narrow it down? No, not at all. It's so a low bar that any franchise can clear it.

But it's more accurate then any other theory out there.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Throw away caution

Our last fighter is Untitled Goose & Groose

 

[MattX20]

For final characters, I'm going based on the music test menu's final empty slot implying a new IP. For convenience sake, I'll list 5 characters that I'm going to keep my eyes on for the remainder of speculation.

1. Ayumi Tachibana- very popular with Japanese Nintendo fans and a potential darkhorse pick to close off the pass

2. Phoenix Wright- pretty well recognized character in Capcom's library and could be one of our last choices

3. Shantae- a character with a noteworthy fanbase and fairly consistent track record for appearing on Nintendo's consoles since day 1.

4. Professor Layton- similar case to Phoenix and Level 5 could get something in the end

5. Rhythm Heaven/Advance Wars- the last major Nintendo IPs I can think of that might qualify as an end of pass choice

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Okay. There are a lot of theories that are going around, but I'm actually going to state a theory that I've been developing for a while now. This theory goes back all the way to the base game and shows how some elements of the design process have changed.

The catch? It's about stages. Not characters.

I call it, Cameo Theory.

Every new stage in Ultimate has included character cameos (barring Smash OG stages like new versions of BF or FD).

Let's take a look.

New Donk City Hall: Pauline, Her Band
Great Plateau Tower: The Old Man
Moray Towers: Judd and Lil' Judd
Dracula's Castle: Dracula, Kid Dracula, Lots of monsters
Mementos: All of the Phantom Thieves
Yggdrasil's Altar: Slimes, Mimic, Cetacea
Spiral Mountain: Bottles, Mumbo, Tooty, Gruntilda
King of Fighters Stadium: I'm not listing then all.
Gareg Mach Monastery: Three characters from each path
Spring Stadium: The entire playable ARMS cast
Minecraft World: Villagers, Animals, Mobs
Northern Cave: Highwind, Lady Luck, JENOVA cocoon
Cloud Sea of Alrest: Gramps, The main party members of XC2
Mishima Temple: Heihachi

Every stage added in Ultimate has a character cameo.

So how does this help us determine anything? Well the last character will have a stage with cameos in it!

Does that help us narrow it down? No, not at all. It's so a low bar that any franchise can clear it.

But it's more accurate then any other theory out there.

I like this theory.
It’s creative.
It’s the thought that counts : )

 

[NotGenerico]

Eh, when it gets to that level of reach you might as well go for a "Konami is the only company with playable rep that's never had a DLC character and they only have 2 costumes" theory.

This is how the NES wins its ultimate victory.

If we're going to talk about possible Konami reps, I've already made my choice.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Okay. There are a lot of theories that are going around, but I'm actually going to state a theory that I've been developing for a while now. This theory goes back all the way to the base game and shows how some elements of the design process have changed.

The catch? It's about stages. Not characters.

I call it, Cameo Theory.

Every new stage in Ultimate has included character cameos (barring Smash OG stages like new versions of BF or FD).

Let's take a look.

New Donk City Hall: Pauline, Her Band
Great Plateau Tower: The Old Man
Moray Towers: Judd and Lil' Judd
Dracula's Castle: Dracula, Kid Dracula, Lots of monsters
Mementos: All of the Phantom Thieves
Yggdrasil's Altar: Slimes, Mimic, Cetacea
Spiral Mountain: Bottles, Mumbo, Tooty, Gruntilda
King of Fighters Stadium: I'm not listing then all.
Gareg Mach Monastery: Three characters from each path
Spring Stadium: The entire playable ARMS cast
Minecraft World: Villagers, Animals, Mobs
Northern Cave: Highwind, Lady Luck, JENOVA cocoon
Cloud Sea of Alrest: Gramps, The main party members of XC2
Mishima Temple: Heihachi

Every stage added in Ultimate has a character cameo.

So how does this help us determine anything? Well the last character will have a stage with cameos in it!

Does that help us narrow it down? No, not at all. It's so a low bar that any franchise can clear it.

But it's more accurate then any other theory out there.

Eh, I think calling billboards and a ship cameos is a stretch, no characters actually physically appear on those stages.

And no characters appear on Yggdrasil either, just mobs, but sure.

I love how this sentence would make absolutely no sense in any other context lol.

"Yeah, just put these 4 characters in the same slot and call all of them 'Desmond' or something."

Seriously, though, what about other weapons besides knives and swords? I remember Ezio gets some kinda handgun or something in his later games, are there enough common elements between the Assassins' respective weapons to make it work?

It's already been explained in detail above. I've got it though, just make Desmond himself the fighter.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

For final characters, I'm going based on the music test menu's final empty slot implying a new IP. For convenience sake, I'll list 5 characters that I'm going to keep my eyes on for the remainder of speculation.

1. Ayumi Tachibana- very popular with Japanese Nintendo fans and a potential darkhorse pick to close off the pass

2. Phoenix Wright- pretty well recognized character in Capcom's library and could be one of our last choices

3. Shantae- a character with a noteworthy fanbase and fairly consistent track record for appearing on Nintendo's consoles since day 1.

4. Professor Layton- similar case to Phoenix and Level 5 could get something in the end

5. Rhythm Heaven/Advance Wars- the last major Nintendo IPs I can think of that might qualify as an end of pass choice

Ayumi's in a weird position to me. Famicom Detective Club has been marketed pretty well, especially on the Switch channels, yet the games only get a physical release in Japan. That doesn't exactly scream confidence across the world. It's also a set of remakes, which don't tend to get much attention in Smash outside of spirit events. FDC is also one of the only games that fit the timeframe of a Corrin-esque inclusion. I just don't know what to make of it. It seems that Nintendo might be on a completely different wavelength this pass, and so the old logic behind adding characters like Corrin might not even apply. If that's the case, most of the points in Ayumi's favor go away. At this point, anything goes, but I feel like Ayumi has a lot going for and against her. We'll just have to see.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm going based on the music test menu's final empty slot implying a new IP

If we get a new series for the final character, it's not to make the music test menu a perfect rectangle. This is like saying we have to get a silent character to make the voice test menu seem perfect.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

So, i am expecting no reveal during Kazuya's presentation, and i'm thinking last fighter might be Cinderace, which i'm fine with cause i like first parties, but i would rather get Mona or Ashley cause WarioWare is due for another rep

 

[Rie Sonomura]

people are discussing Shantae and Ashley more

well this is

a pleasant surprise

 

[Slime Master]

Eh, I think calling billboards and a ship cameos is a stretch, no characters actually physically appear on those stages.

And no characters appear on Yggdrasil either, just mobs, but sure.

I will not stand for this Cetacea slander

 

[Faso115]

Guys guys the next character is gonna have fingers and shoes.

Now Mr. Sakurai i challenge you to find a character that doesn't fit this. I freaking dare you.

 

[Technomage]

Guys guys the next character is gonna have fingers and shoes.

Now Mr. Sakurai i challenge you to find a character that doesn't fit this. I freaking dare you.

Well, we did have R.O.B., Jigglypuff, Piranha Plant, Isabelle, and Ivysaur (and maybe Game & Watch).

 

[GilTheGreat19]

If we get a character that featured in PlayStation all star battle royale

I just wanna see fanart of the character going “by PSASBR, hello smash!l

That’s it, thats the post

 

[MattX20]

Ayumi's in a weird position to me. Famicom Detective Club has been marketed pretty well, especially on the Switch channels, yet the games only get a physical release in Japan. That doesn't exactly scream confidence across the world. It's also a set of remakes, which don't tend to get much attention in Smash outside of spirit events. FDC is also one of the only games that fit the timeframe of a Corrin-esque inclusion. I just don't know what to make of it. It seems that Nintendo might be on a completely different wavelength this pass, and so the old logic behind adding characters like Corrin might not even apply. If that's the case, most of the points in Ayumi's favor go away. At this point, anything goes, but I feel like Ayumi has a lot going for and against her. We'll just have to see.

It's why I said she's a potential darkhorse pick. Unless a spirit event for the remakes occurs before the final character reveal, she's certainly a possible one

 

[Gengar84]

A Dynasty Warriors character COULD tie in with the game Dynasty Warriors 9:Empires

It’s supposed to release this sometime this year.

I love the Warriors franchise and Lu Bu is among my most wanted characters for Smash. The games are definitely big enough to warrant a character in Smash in my opinion. The series has crossed over with Fire Emblem and Zelda twice so it definitely has history with Nintendo. It has also crossed over with Dragon Quest and Persona, both of which have a character in Smash.

The only question is whether Sakurai considers the characters to be eligible considering they are based on actual historical figures. What are your thoughts regarding their eligibility for Smash?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Guys guys the next character is gonna have fingers and shoes.

Now Mr. Sakurai i challenge you to find a character that doesn't fit this. I freaking dare you.

You just jynxed it. It's Bandana Waddle Dee.

...

I am happy with this result.

 

[Will]

Say that Hayabusa is coming.

say it now.

You can kill me now, but it will not change the future. My ancestors smile upon me, will yours do the same?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I love the Warriors franchise and Lu Bu is among my most wanted characters for Smash. The games are definitely big enough to warrant a character in Smash in my opinion. The series has crossed over with Fire Emblem and Zelda twice so it definitely has history with Nintendo. It has also crossed over with Dragon Quest and Persona, both of which have a character in Smash.

The only question is whether Sakurai considers the characters to be eligible considering they are based on actual historical figures. What are your thoughts regarding their eligibility for Smash?

I could see it, though I don’t know how likely it’d be.
IRL Lu Bu was a somewhat ruthless Chinese emperor as shown here:

Lü Bu - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Dynasty Warriors Lu Bu seems a bit toned down.

Thing is, Lu Bu in general is 5th party (real person), but Dynasty Warriors Lu Bu is 3rd. Interesting stuff.

 

[Will]

Speaking of who's coming and who's not, remember that Harada tweet from 2019?

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

I wonder if that actually holds weight now that Kazuya's in the game.

 

[Louie G.]

The Harada tweet was hilarious but I’ve already seen too many people taking it semi-seriously and in turn I’ve become tired of seeing it lmao.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The harada tweet just makes me think of the one kid in class nobody likes who ruins the moment for everyone else

that “kid” being the Alberto guy

I’ve told the story countless times by now

 

[Will]

The Harada tweet was hilarious but I’ve already seen too many people taking it semi-seriously and in turn I’ve become tired of seeing it lmao.

It's the first time I've thought about it since its reveal so therefore it is an entirely new independent thought that I and only I have ever conceived.

It's not like I go on this website every day. Not anymore

 

[PSIGuy]

It's not too unbelievable that none of those characters were going to get in anyway, so that'll probably make people take it even more seriously.

The new speculation meta will be campaigning for characters you don't want and being obnoxious about it, so that they get blacklisted and your actual favourite's chances go up

 

[SNEKeater]

If we're going to talk about possible Konami reps, I've already made my choice.

A fine and respectable choice. MG Rising music in Smash would be a blast, and he would probably bring a few tracks from the classic MGS games as well.

My personal choice, though, would be Alucard.