Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[DarthEnderX]

How would everyone feel if Tabuu was either that Bonus fighter that was theorized or a DLC character?

I'd feel bad. I'd feel quite bad indeed.

Like, A. Stop trying to make bosses playable. And B. Stop trying to make Smash OCs playable.


Now, give me a new section of WoL map where Tabuu absorbs Galeem and Dharkon and because our final superboss, I'm all on board with that.

Wait what

I thought she was just flat chested?

Is this real, from what I've seen most of her depiction doesn't have anything down there when she's literally wearing a tight clothing.

No, it's not real. They toyed with the idea during early character concepts for her, but none of that made it into the final character.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Still nowhere near as bad as an Arms character being announced in April & that being stretched out to June then the next Smash news not happening until October. 2020 was not fun lol

March actually the ARMS guessing game was announced.

i think this next fighter will dethrone Steve for the title of "hardest to work on"

What makes you think this? Just curious.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

March actually the ARMS guessing game was announced.

What makes you think this? Just curious.

How long it’s been between Pyra/Mythra and this next fighter. It was similar between Min Min and Steve cause of the stage reworking. The transition periods from Steve to Sephiroth to Pythra were shorter cuz the latter two weren’t as difficult from a development standpoint

 

[Michael the Spikester]

How long it’s been between Pyra/Mythra and this next fighter. It was similar between Min Min and Steve cause of the stage reworking. The transition periods from Steve to Sephiroth to Pythra were shorter cuz the latter two weren’t as difficult from a development standpoint

Hmmm fair.

Any ideas of who could be "complicated" fighters seen at E3?

 

[SpectreJordan]

How long it’s been between Pyra/Mythra and this next fighter. It was similar between Min Min and Steve cause of the stage reworking. The transition periods from Steve to Sephiroth to Pythra were shorter cuz the latter two weren’t as difficult from a development standpoint

I think there’s a good chance that they’ve purposely delayed the character for E3.

 

[Dukefire]

We don't know WHO is challenger 10 & 11 as Nintendo and Sakurai are keeping the lid sealed from leaks.

The surprise factor (according to me) may feel like this:

 

[N3ON]

Events get priority for reveals, that's just how it goes. The release schedule isn't actually any different. With Steve intended to be released a month earlier, every character in FP2 has/would've been three months apart, and with our previous characters in March and the next in June, that would track.

Of course things can change, but everything is actually pretty on track. Last year is when all the aberrations were occurring, for obv reasons.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

We don't know WHO is challenger 10 & 11 as Nintendo and Sakurai are keeping the lid sealed from leaks.

The surprise factor (according to me) may feel like this:

ngl i wouldnt mind a leak right now

remember the min min victory screen leak? that was technically legit, and then brushie saying 10 mins before, "it's steve." sephiroth and pythra were so far the only ones of pass 2 to NOT be leaked

 

[Mushroomguy12]

How would everyone feel if Tabuu was either that Bonus fighter that was theorized or a DLC character?

I'd be strongly disappointed personally, since I don't really care for Smash OCs being added when there are still so many characters on the outside that I and many others want.

If he was a boss that's fine though.

 

[3BitSaurus]

till nowhere near as bad as an Arms character being announced in April & that being stretched out

I see what you did there.

 

[Technomage]

Hmmm fair.

Any ideas of who could be "complicated" fighters seen at E3?

Maybe a character from a 3D fighting game, since Sakurai did state that he was considering Heihachi before learning or figuring out that he'd be too complex to faithfully add to the Smash roster.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Maybe a character from a 3D fighting game, since Sakurai did state that he was considering Heihachi before learning or figuring out that he'd be too complex to faithfully add to the Smash roster.

idk but i personally am feeling... a shmup character

 

[Mushroomguy12]

idk but i personally am feeling... a shmup character

I read this as a shrimp character at first.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Hmmm fair.

Any ideas of who could be "complicated" fighters seen at E3?

Bottom text

 

[Technomage]

idk but i personally am feeling... a shmup character

Another ultra complicated character would be a character from a 4x turn-based strategy game, especially ones like Master of Orion and Stars in Shadow; since those games are mainly about space ship combat, a character from either game would have to incorporate fleet command and management into their movesets in order to be faithful to them, and that would be pretty difficult to do.

 

[RGFS]

idk but i personally am feeling... a shmup character

Just looked up "shmup". Shoot 'em up, huh? The Contra boys have been overshadowed by Ryu Hayabusa but I personally find them to be the more interesting NES characters.

For the sake of considering a shmup character, I guess having to also rework every fighter would be a big part of the complexity. Having to see what counts as a head for bullets to do more damage and how much it should do considering the size of some heads would be hard to balance right? Maybe some other parts of the body do more or less damage?

 

[Speed Weed]

idk but i personally am feeling... a shmup character

LET'S ****ING GO

IT'S TIME

 

[Technomage]

it wasn't fun for more reasons than just that

but yeah, i think the next character will have a "global" mechanic similar to how every single frickin stage had to be reworked for Steve. Sephiroth was probably the easiest of the characters to work on this pass, even though the boss mode was a bit tough. Pyra/Mythra got the ball rolling once Rex was dropped out of the equation, Min Min was probably the second hardest

i think this next fighter will dethrone Steve for the title of "hardest to work on"

I just realized something: Since we've only got 2 fighters left (and it's said that the devs work on 3 fighters at a time), maybe the wait for said fighter wouldn't extend to 4 months like Steve did?

 

[ahemtoday]

Just looked up "shmup". Shoot 'em up, huh? The Contra boys have been overshadowed by Ryu Hayabusa but I personally find them to be the more interesting NES characters.

For the sake of considering a shmup character, I guess having to also rework every fighter would be a big part of the complexity. Having to see what counts as a head for bullets to do more damage and how much it should do considering the size of some heads would be hard to balance right? Maybe some other parts of the body do more or less damage?

Eh, shmups are less Contra and moreso... Gradius or Ikaruga or Space Invaders or Galaga.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Eh, shmups are less Contra and moreso... Gradius or Ikaruga or Space Invaders or Galaga.

or DoDonPachi or Mushihimesama Futari.

not afraid of those names? you should be.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Having to see what counts as a head for bullets to do more damage and how much it should do considering the size of some heads would be hard to balance right?

This mechanic already exists for Marth and Lucina's Shield Breaker, it's why you can angle it now

 

[Ivander]

or DoDonPachi or Mushihimesama Futari.

not afraid of those names? you should be.

Definitely recognise the 2nd one.

That music is all too fitting. And to think there is a 2nd form to this boss right after if you somehow don't die against the first form.

Edit: For those who want to see the 2nd form and a more clearer video, here you go.

Spoiler

 

[Technomage]

Just looked up "shmup". Shoot 'em up, huh? The Contra boys have been overshadowed by Ryu Hayabusa but I personally find them to be the more interesting NES characters.

For the sake of considering a shmup character, I guess having to also rework every fighter would be a big part of the complexity. Having to see what counts as a head for bullets to do more damage and how much it should do considering the size of some heads would be hard to balance right? Maybe some other parts of the body do more or less damage?

Maybe that shooter character could also have mechanics for landing shots on opponents' limbs? Where hitting the legs lowers their jump height, ground speed, and foot attack power temporarily, while hitting the arms lowers their fist throw attack powers?

 

[Gnateb]

Maybe that shooter character could also have mechanics for landing shots on opponents' limbs? Where hitting the legs lowers their jump height, ground speed, and foot attack power temporarily, while hitting the arms lowers their fist throw attack powers?

That sounds very cool, but also very annoying, lol. They could basically just spam bullets and immediately incapacitate their opponent

 

[Louie G.]

If I had to go with a shmup character I think I'd opt for Twinbee. I mean, just look at em.

He's also shown up in Gradius and Parodius outside of his own series, so he could probably adopt content from all the Konami shmups.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

How long it’s been between Pyra/Mythra and this next fighter. It was similar between Min Min and Steve cause of the stage reworking. The transition periods from Steve to Sephiroth to Pythra were shorter cuz the latter two weren’t as difficult from a development standpoint

It’s been less than 3 months. Pyra came out in March. I think this is moreso a case of Occam’s Razor: it’s much simpler to just assume that we are getting the character in June because of E3. Why reveal something in say May when it can be one of your E3 reveals?

 

[Pillow]

Just going to toss in my opinion that we really don't have to reinvent the wheel for a shooter character. There isn't an extremely long ranged focused gun character in Smash, and almost all the viable shooter characters have plenty of stuff to pull from their original games where there doesn't need to be a "headshot" mechanic thrown in.

 

[SKX31]

i think this next fighter will dethrone Steve for the title of "hardest to work on"

Maybe a character from a 3D fighting game, since Sakurai did state that he was considering Heihachi before learning or figuring out that he'd be too complex to faithfully add to the Smash roster.

I'm entirely convinced it's due to:

As far as complicated characters go, there are a lot:

• Any character from an RTS if minions are more controllable than Pikmin (which may be an impossibility given how Icies already strain the Smash engine a bit, but still). A StarCraft / WarCraft character could be hypotheoretically developed this way, specifically Kerrigan due to her being the Zerg Queen for most of StarCraft's runtime.
• Games like LoL and Mortal Kombat have stuff that are selected on the CSS - LoL has the Summoners' Spells, Mortal Kombat has the different styles that grant different Specials and what not.
• Any character that rely on timing hits for extra damage (such as Taiko's Don-Chan, Geno etc.) could be mechanically complicated as well due to that mechanic not being a main focus of a character's design so far IIRC.
• Also, possibly characters like Phoenix Wright / Layton if Sakurai and co. take a page from UMvC3 in Phoenix's case. Personally I think UMvC3 Phoenix was a bit too campy in execution, but it's another possible avenue nevertheless.

 

[Dukefire]

Either the Second or Third week every three months usually means Nintendo drops another announcement video. Two Months after general is the Indie Direct.

Since E3 is in play June next month, the exception of being held for another month is possible to use the BIG GUNS THERE.

 

[N3ON]

It's seems like the concept of "how can there be a character that out-complexes Steve" is really the antithesis to what Smash is, where simplicity and accessibility are generally the touchstones. The ceiling for complexity might increase over time, but is still pretty low by design, and if a character can be implemented faithfully in a less obtuse manner, they probably will be.

I mean it's an interesting hypothetical to throw around, don't get me wrong, but complexity for the sake of itself is really the opposite of Sakurai's ethos.

And that sort of leads to it being difficult to envision a halfway likely character that would end up being more complex than Steve (at least for me), given his implementation involved additional work on all stages to facilitate the moveset. The only other character that complex is really Kirby, which is basically an unintended accident. But at least his development has been somewhat cumulative.

If I had to go with a shmup character I think I'd opt for Twinbee. I mean, just look at em.

View attachment 314585

He's also shown up in Gradius and Parodius outside of his own series, so he could probably adopt content from all the Konami shmups.

Yes, the correct answer.

 

[ForsakenM]

They could be the next characters, but this line of thinking feels similar to what we do every time we get a new character. "They said we couldn't get Steve because he wasn't a serious choice. Now we'll get Jonsey." "We just got Sephiroth. I'm thinking Eggman is coming."

It's probably for the best if we ignore the newest patterns and assess everything there is to consider that could possibly hold back/help a character to get in Smash.

I will say that I don't see it as a pattern so much as it's been made clear for years now that they don't play by the same rules we try to box them into. That's why I said (or if I didn't, SHOULD have said) that I find Yuri and Lloyd to be entirely possible simply based on that notion, but not that they are in. It probably has more to do with lots of popular characters are RPG/JRPG characters and usually main characters and that stereo-typically means wielding a sword. I mean, how can you tell if they are the hero if they don't wield a sword, right?

I have other reasons for thinking Lloyd/Yuri are likely to be in this pass, and I won't be surprised with we get a berserker and a ninja to finish off this pass with a possible bonus mischievous sports connoisseur.

 

[RGFS]

Just going to toss in my opinion that we really don't have to reinvent the wheel for a shooter character. There isn't an extremely long ranged focused gun character in Smash, and almost all the viable shooter characters have plenty of stuff to pull from their original games where there doesn't need to be a "headshot" mechanic thrown in.

Fair enough. Though, I wouldn't really say it's reinventing the wheel. Considering Marth and Lucina apparently have something similar it isn't even something that would've been hard to implement like I thought it would. It would also be something pretty small that most people wouldn't even notice like how Bowser Jr. is more vulnerable from the top since hitting his clown car deals less damage.

IMO, A shooter character would be way cooler if they had a reload mechanic to leave them open and force them to get up close and not just spam their projectiles. This would also balance their powerful weapons. This wouldn't apply to someone like Doom Slayer who doesn't reload so I guess he would get an ammo meter like Hero if he ever got in.

 

[Technomage]

They could be the next characters, but this line of thinking feels similar to what we do every time we get a new character. "They said we couldn't get Steve because he wasn't a serious choice. Now we'll get Jonsey." "We just got Sephiroth. I'm thinking Eggman is coming."

It's probably for the best if we ignore the newest patterns and assess everything there is to consider that could possibly hold back/help a character to get in Smash.

I will say that I don't see it as a pattern so much as it's been made clear for years now that they don't play by the same rules we try to box them into. That's why I said (or if I didn't, SHOULD have said) that I find Yuri and Lloyd to be entirely possible simply based on that notion, but not that they are in. It probably has more to do with lots of popular characters are RPG/JRPG characters and usually main characters and that stereo-typically means wielding a sword. I mean, how can you tell if they are the hero if they don't wield a sword, right?

I have other reasons for thinking Lloyd/Yuri are likely to be in this pass, and I won't be surprised with we get a berserker and a ninja to finish off this pass with a possible bonus mischievous sports connoisseur.

That leads me to a different theory: Curveballs. Since we're likely to get another one of those, what characters are people usually predicting right now, and what characters would make great curveballs?

 

[Pillow]

Fair enough. Though, I wouldn't really say it's reinventing the wheel. Considering Marth and Lucina apparently have something similar it isn't even something that would've been hard to implement like I thought it would. It would also be something pretty small that most people wouldn't even notice like how Bowser Jr. is more vulnerable from the top since hitting his clown car deals less damage.

IMO, A shooter character would be way cooler if they had a reload mechanic to leave them open and force them to get up close and not just spam their projectiles. This would also balance their powerful weapons. This wouldn't apply to someone like Doom Slayer who doesn't reload so I guess he would get an ammo meter like Hero if he ever got in.

A headshot mechanic for a single special move would be fine, just don't make it a core mechanic of the character as it just sounds frustrating to consistently land (more for the player than the opponent). I always imagined the Halo sniper rifle to function kind of like Snake's old final Smash/Kirby hoverboard thing for example, but with much less screen clutter, so something like that could use a headshot mechanic.

Smash goes by feel more than anything. A reload mechanic would be fine as long as it doesn't feel clunky, but it's not necessary to make a FPS character feel like they're from a shooter. Having various ranged options that reward accuracy/precision while being weak to rushdown should invoke that feel well enough.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Wait what

I thought she was just flat chested?

Yeah. Flat-chested = Hermaphrodite.

 

[Pillow]

Yeah. Flat-chested = Hermaphrodite.

....what?

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

....what?

It's rather complicated to explain HOW Lilith was created so I'll just leave that up to you to look up.

 

[Technomage]

Yeah. Flat-chested = Hermaphrodite.

Nah, it's more like flat-chested = man or little girl.

 

[Pillow]

It's rather complicated to explain HOW Lilith was created so I'll just leave that up to you to look up.

I mean, I wasn't around for the original conversation. But hermaphrodite is a real word with a real definition that differs from the definition you just gave. So unless there's some context I'm missing here, I just wanted to point that out.

 

[Ivander]

Yeah. Flat-chested = Hermaphrodite.

......No? You do know females, even older ones, can have small breasts, right?

Also, Lilith is still Morrigan. Lilith was created by Morrigan's father by taking a third of Morrigan's power and putting it into a form. She doesn't have any part of a male being in her.