Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Rie Sonomura]

Who do you think should have been added in Smash for a while (meaning even before Ultimate or Smash 4), even if you're not a big fan of the characters?
For me, it's Dixie Kong and Tom Nook, who are both characters from pretty popular franchises and well known worldwide.
Pretty close, I'd say another Kirby character such a Bandana Dee and Toad.

If it counts, sometimes I think we should have gotten Elma in Smash 4 instead of Corrin. Fates’s Western release still was a long ways off when Corrin was revealed, but Elma being revealed for Smash when her game woulda been released in the same month as Smash 4’s final video presentation would probably have given X the popularity push it needed

 

[Jocario Zero]

If it counts, sometimes I think we should have gotten Elma in Smash 4 instead of Corrin. Fates’s Western release still was a long ways off when Corrin was revealed, but Elma being revealed for Smash when her game woulda been released in the same month as Smash 4’s final video presentation would probably have given X the popularity push it needed

I had this theory once that they went with Fire Emblem and not with Xenoblade X because of the lacking success of the Wii U.

Meaning: Support a game on a system that already sold a lot (Fire Emblem on a successful 3DS) against a game on a system that struggles hard sales wise
and possibly wont make that big of a difference (Xenoblade X on Wii U). I hope i make some sense here...

Even though I like Corrin (shocking I know) if I could choose…yeah Elma without hesitation.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

A lot of said antipathy came in after release; but that was due to people finding out about the RNG stuff - including the insta-kill spells being RNG - in a scene that has historically been RNG-averse (outside of cases where it brings hype, like MGW's 9 or Peach pulling Bombs). I know this isn't exactly what you're meaning, but it's worth noting since other characters that have been aimed a bit more towards the Japanese audience - like Terry - did not face nearly as much antipathy.

With Terry it helped that he was from a series that did have a solid legacy in the West and was generally viewed as an old school fighting game icon important to Sakurai and game crossovers in general. The fact that many have suggested he was included for fans in the Central/South America region demonstrates that appeal to Japan often doesn't even occur to people.

Also in general its helped that any character that could be dismissed as more for the Japanese audience has typically been mitigated by some other element. Hero had Banjo's reveal less than an hour later (on top of an E3 presentation), Terry came in a Direct that also announced further fighters, Min Min was answering the long awaited ARMS question, and Pyra/Mythra was part of the first real Direct in a very long time.

When you don't have those factors to soften the blow (on top of various other reasons) you get the response to Byleth.

 

[PeridotGX]

I had this theory once that they went with Fire Emblem and not with Xenoblade X because of the lacking success of the Wii U.

Meaning: Support a game on a system that already sold a lot (Fire Emblem on a successful 3DS) against a game on a system that struggles hard sales wise
and possibly wont make that big of a difference (Xenoblade X on Wii U). I hope i make some sense here...

Even though I like Corrin (shocking I know) if I could choose…yeah Elma without hesitation.

Something often underlooked when it comes to this discussion is the power of the 3DS. I wouldn't be surprised if it simply wasn't powerful enough to add Elma, who would likely have a Skell gimmick. I would also imagine this is why they waited until Ultimate to add Inkling.

 

[Cosmic77]

Say, are we allowed to talk about the current state of the Smash community? Apparently, a Twitter account called The Gimmick Hub gave us the award for Worst Community. I don't know if this is a notable account or anything, but for reference, we beat out Persona and Minecraft in that one.

Pretending that the Smash community is anywhere near as bad as Pokémon is a joke by itself.

 

[Jocario Zero]

Something often underlooked when it comes to this discussion is the power of the 3DS. I wouldn't be surprised if it simply wasn't powerful enough to add Elma, who would likely have a Skell gimmick. I would also imagine this is why they waited until Ultimate to add Inkling.

I think a skell would most likely be a final smash and shoot a giant energy blast or something. The 3DS could handle quick final smash transformations like Beast Ganon or Giga Bowser (who had different moves from regular Bowser). So I don’t see this as a reason why they went with Corrin and not Elma (but I agree on the Inkling might have been to difficult for the 3DS to handle).

 

[Slime Master]

I think the single biggest factor in a rather apathetic response to Hero was being leaked months prior, rather than a divisive moveset or being niche in the west.

Also, while the smash community has its problems, anyone who considers it even a contender for worst video game community has never played a moba. Legit the only reason I quit League was because I didn't want to have to interact with the average LoL player.

 

[Cosmic77]

Who do you think should have been added in Smash for a while (meaning even before Ultimate or Smash 4), even if you're not a big fan of the characters?
For me, it's Dixie Kong and Tom Nook, who are both characters from pretty popular franchises and well known worldwide.
Pretty close, I'd say another Kirby character such a Bandana Dee and Toad.

This might end up being the third game in a row where I shake my in head in total confusion as both Nintendo and Sakurai pass up a lot of great and unique Zelda characters.

It'd be one thing if the series didn't have any decent choices, but that's not the case at all. BotW gave us four intresting characters, each with a unique ability. With the huge success of BotW, you'd think we'd be in great position for a new character at long last, but here we are with only two characters left and still no Zelda.

Maybe in another timeline, we'd have Midna, Ghirahim, and a Champion on the roster. A new character from the latest Zelda game for each installment of Smash.

 

[jadetheseer]

I’m starting to think that it’s likely for a Resident Evil character to be one of the last two characters. CAPCOM has really been pushing the franchise lately with Village coming out and it’s the 25th anniversary this year. It’s an iconic series, one of the biggest and highest selling still not in Smash, “worthiness” is a dead concept but still almost everybody knows the series even if they haven’t played one of the games. No doubt that Sakurai would agree that it’s iconic enough. In my view, it would be Jill who’d be the character as Chris is very popular in Japan and Leon is very popular in the west however Jill is pretty popular in both regions. What do you guys think?

(and yes I know RE had a spirit event already, but that was back in late 2019 so I don’t think it has much baring if a character gets in or not tbh..) k

 

[cothero]

I wouldn't be so sure. We should have more "leaks" leading up to E3...

You think so?... Even credible leakers as Verge an Imran haven't got anything lately. Nintendo have been keeping things pretty close to the chest since Terry.

 

[Technomage]

I’m starting to think that it’s likely for a Resident Evil character to be one of the last two characters. CAPCOM has really been pushing the franchise lately with Village coming out and it’s the 25th anniversary this year. It’s an iconic series, one of the biggest and highest selling still not in Smash, “worthiness” is a dead concept but still almost everybody knows the series even if they haven’t played one of the games. No doubt that Sakurai would agree that it’s iconic enough. In my view, it would be Jill who’d be the character as Chris is very popular in Japan and Leon is very popular in the west however Jill is pretty popular in both regions. What do you guys think?

(and yes I know RE had a spirit event already, but that was back in late 2019 so I don’t think it has much baring if a character gets in or not tbh..) k

Interesting, plus I would be willing to make Jill one of my casual mains. Though that does raise a question: Would Jill be limited to explosives guns, just like Snake?

Speaking of Jill, if she were to get added to Ultimate's roster, then I'd be amused if they were to add a Jill sandwich reference there (such as a victory animation where she eats a sandwich). XD

Edit: You forgot to add the fact that since Spirits themselves don't deconfirm, neither should Spirit Events.

 

[cothero]

I’m starting to think that it’s likely for a Resident Evil character to be one of the last two characters. CAPCOM has really been pushing the franchise lately with Village coming out and it’s the 25th anniversary this year. It’s an iconic series, one of the biggest and highest selling still not in Smash, “worthiness” is a dead concept but still almost everybody knows the series even if they haven’t played one of the games. No doubt that Sakurai would agree that it’s iconic enough. In my view, it would be Jill who’d be the character as Chris is very popular in Japan and Leon is very popular in the west however Jill is pretty popular in both regions. What do you guys think?

(and yes I know RE had a spirit event already, but that was back in late 2019 so I don’t think it has much baring if a character gets in or not tbh..) k

As a RE fan myself, i'd love to have a RE character coming to smash, but i think it's very unlikely at this point for two major reasons: the spirits event as you mentioned + all Capcom mii costumes released with Pythra.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

You forgot to add the fact that since Spirits themselves don't deconfirm, neither shoulkd Spirit Events.

My issue with this is, why would you add a spirit of a character after deciding to add him later on in the pass?
In the case of Pyra, Mythra and Min-Min, I would argue that their spirits were added before deciding on a second pass for Smash, in the base game.
But the Resident Evil event happened after the announcement of a second DLC, so why would you add them out of nowhere when you don't have a reason to? I'm talking specifically about Resident Evil, I don't remember the event going with a RE game but I might be wrong.

 

[SharkLord]

Edit: You forgot to add the fact that since Spirits themselves don't deconfirm, neither shoulkd Spirit Events.

It's not quite the same. It's not the Spirits themselves that take them out, it's the timing. They'd be chosen with the fighters in mind, and if there was a big content pack in the works, all the content from that series would be released there rather than scattered throughout the pass. The idea is that since the content is just tossed out there, it indicates that there isn't a big content pack coming up, and therefore, there isn't an upcoming fighter for that series.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

https://twitter.com/thegimmickhub

275 followers
Oh no, it's over, Smash fans are finished.

Obligatory.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Hm. Actual footage came out about the 4chan "leak". Still looks fake imo, but ngl, I dig the aesthetic.

Seems like viral Marketing for a fan animation.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Well I had another Smash reveal dream. The reveal trailer in my dream had Mario in some dark room looking around and the screen went black & white and all grainy, then Mario turned and a shadowy figure was there who revealed itself as

Spoiler

Freddy Fazbear.

And I never played that series in my life. Man dreams can be so weird.

 

[SKX31]

With Terry it helped that he was from a series that did have a solid legacy in the West and was generally viewed as an old school fighting game icon important to Sakurai and game crossovers in general. The fact that many have suggested he was included for fans in the Central/South America region demonstrates that appeal to Japan often doesn't even occur to people.

Also in general its helped that any character that could be dismissed as more for the Japanese audience has typically been mitigated by some other element. Hero had Banjo's reveal less than an hour later (on top of an E3 presentation), Terry came in a Direct that also announced further fighters, Min Min was answering the long awaited ARMS question, and Pyra/Mythra was part of the first real Direct in a very long time.

When you don't have those factors to soften the blow (on top of various other reasons) you get the response to Byleth.

Oh yeah, the response to Byleth. Hoo boy.

That were also some gameplay-related reasons involved there: Sure, Byleth had somewhat unique weaponry - but outside of the fact that the people who were dead set against Byleth weren't going to change their minds, there were also a lot of criticism levied at how relatively uninspired it seemed from a functional stapoint. Byleth was also hit with the "DlC Teth3r" criticism.

I'm not saying those were primary - they weren't at the time - but they definetely played a part in Byleth's cold reception as well.

I think the single biggest factor in a rather apathetic response to Hero was being leaked months prior, rather than a divisive moveset or being niche in the west.

Also, while the smash community has its problems, anyone who considers it even a contender for worst video game community has never played a moba. Legit the only reason I quit League was because I didn't want to have to interact with the average LoL player.

Not really sure there, because it's really difficult to say how many people actually follow Smash leaks. I do agree that it was a main reason, but Hero is still controversial to this day amongst the more competitively-minded people as a result of the whole furor (I don't think South Australia's ban was reversed, was it?). Now, it's also true that the competitively-minded people are a minority (if vocal), so there's a decent chance that the leak was the primary reason. If anything, the moveset did prolong at least some antipathy.

Also, yes both MOBAs have a lot of toxic players. Wouldn't call them the worst (trust me, there are worse communities where toxicity and slurs are even more rampant and unchecked), but still, that really dampened my personal enthusiasm some. It's absolutely a major problem when someone complains or throws out slurs in the chat to the point where one has to mute / report ones own teammates.

Well I had another Smash reveal dream. The reveal trailer in my dream had Mario in some dark room looking around and the screen went black & white and all grainy, then Mario turned and a shadowy figure was there who revealed itself as

Spoiler

Freddy Fazbear.

And I never played that series in my life. Man dreams can be so weird.

Did the trailer start off by Sonic punching Mario into another dimension?

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Well I had another Smash reveal dream. The reveal trailer in my dream had Mario in some dark room looking around and the screen went black & white and all grainy, then Mario turned and a shadowy figure was there who revealed itself as

Spoiler

Freddy Fazbear

.

And I never played that series in my life. Man dreams can be so weird.

Have I ever mentioned my Smash dreams. If they came true, your roster would be looking like Freddy Fazbear, Bonnie echo, Gordon Freeman, Dr. Coyle, a Pokemon from FRLG, Paper Crash Bandicoot, Horse from Minecraft, Chrono, Edelgard, Lucina again, Waluigi and Mii Mage.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Did the trailer start off by Sonic punching Mario into another dimension?

Not sure, just that Mario was investigating some abandoned facility. Although it really should have been Luigi in that case.

 

[cashregister9]

Have I ever mentioned my Smash dreams. If they came true, your roster would be looking like Freddy Fazbear, Bonnie echo, Gordon Freeman, Dr. Coyle, a Pokemon from FRLG, Paper Crash Bandicoot, Horse from Minecraft, Chrono, Lucina again, Edelgard, Waluigi and Mii Mage.

If mine came through we would have Tiki with a costume for Nagi and then she would have an Echo but that echo would just be Young Tiki with alts for Nowi, Fae and Myrrh. We would also have Jonesy, Crash and Inteleon.

 

[Ivander]

Well I had another Smash reveal dream. The reveal trailer in my dream had Mario in some dark room looking around and the screen went black & white and all grainy, then Mario turned and a shadowy figure was there who revealed itself as

Spoiler

Freddy Fazbear.

And I never played that series in my life. Man dreams can be so weird.

I had a dream last night as well. Although my dream wasn't about it for the majority, I know at the end of it, it was me watching a Smash reveal trailer, it was a war zone of some kind with soldiers and helicopters, but the soldiers and helicopters looked like they were from Predator or Rambo. I never saw who the actual character was, since my dream stopped before the reveal, but I clearly remember myself saying, "Contra is coming to Smash?"
I don't know if it was actually going to be Bill Rizer/Lance Bean, but I think the reason I said it(don't know if I said it in control or uncontrolled) was because the soldiers and helicopters looked very 80s/90s like in Predator or Rambo and the buildings were very reminiscent of the first stage in Contra 3.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Tbh, who care is people hate Byleth. I love him and thats all that matters

 

[CommanderZaktan]

So I think I know who will be the next fighter based on Dark pit's arrow glitch and the projectiles bypasses the hurtboxes on the heads. It's Rayman. His fists can be steered up or down after releasing them like in Rayman 1. And he's limbless; making him avoiding some projectiles directly by standing still, running, jumping, etc.

 

[SneakyLink]

So I think I know who will be the next fighter based on Dark pit's arrow glitch and the projectiles bypasses the hurtboxes on the heads. It's Rayman. His fists can be steered up or down after releasing them like in Rayman 1. And he's limbless; making him avoiding some projectiles directly by standing still, running, jumping, etc.

The Dark Pit thing has apparently been in the game since launch so I don't think it means much.

The headshot glitch also likely means not much, but I personally think its Reimu especially since it affects all hurtboxes and all projectiles.

I can see how it could be Rayman though.

 

[cothero]

A little theory here:

Maybe we can have another Capcom character after all. We all know that all Mii costumes released with Pythra were from Capcom, but maybe they're planning to release more Mii costumes alongside the next Capcom fighter releated to the series the character comes from, so they decided to release the MH costumes alongside Arthur with Pythra already (otherwise, too many Capcom costumes would be released with the same character). I still don't think a RE rep is likely as we got that spirit event back in 2019, but it could be a character from another Capcom franchise.

 

[Icedragonadam]

A little theory here:

Maybe we can have another Capcom character after all. We all know that all Mii costumes released with Pythra were from Capcom, but maybe they're planning to release more Mii costumes alongside the next Capcom fighter releated to the series the character comes from, so they decided to release the MH costumes alongside Arthur with Pythra already (otherwise, too many Capcom costumes would be released with the same character). I still don't think a RE rep is likely as we got that spirit event back in 2019, but it could be a character from another Capcom franchise.

This is how Chun-Li wins.

 

[2006ToyotaTacoma]

A little theory here:

Maybe we can have another Capcom character after all. We all know that all Mii costumes released with Pythra were from Capcom, but maybe they're planning to release more Mii costumes alongside the next Capcom fighter releated to the series the character comes from, so they decided to release the MH costumes alongside Arthur with Pythra already (otherwise, too many Capcom costumes would be released with the same character). I still don't think a RE rep is likely as we got that spirit event back in 2019, but it could be a character from another Capcom franchise.

Personally I never truly believed the Capcom costumes in Pack 9 deconfirmed a company rep, and now Capcom has a solid chance of getting a fighter in the final two.

Personally it's between either Phoenix, Dante or Chun-Li as the front runners, with Amaterasu being the dark horse.

 

[Slime Master]

Not really sure there, because it's really difficult to say how many people actually follow Smash leaks. I do agree that it was a main reason, but Hero is still controversial to this day amongst the more competitively-minded people as a result of the whole furor (I don't think South Australia's ban was reversed, was it?). Now, it's also true that the competitively-minded people are a minority (if vocal), so there's a decent chance that the leak was the primary reason. If anything, the moveset did prolong at least some antipathy.

Also, yes both MOBAs have a lot of toxic players. Wouldn't call them the worst (trust me, there are worse communities where toxicity and slurs are even more rampant and unchecked), but still, that really dampened my personal enthusiasm some. It's absolutely a major problem when someone complains or throws out slurs in the chat to the point where one has to mute / report ones own teammates

Thing is, I feel like the hardcore speculation community is the group that had that kind of response to Hero. I haven't noticed that so much with more casual fans. That is anecdotal though, I can see it go any way.

 

[Arcadenik]

Most people would probably agree with these:

Dixie Kong
Bandana Dee
Waluigi
Tom Nook
Toad/Captain Toad
A new Zelda character that isn't a clone

Meowth needs to be on this list too.

But I guess Meowth being a Gen 1 Pokémon is why no one wants him.

If only Meowth was a Gen 7 or Gen 8 Pokémon...

 

[Golden Icarus]

A little theory here:

Maybe we can have another Capcom character after all. We all know that all Mii costumes released with Pythra were from Capcom, but maybe they're planning to release more Mii costumes alongside the next Capcom fighter releated to the series the character comes from, so they decided to release the MH costumes alongside Arthur with Pythra already (otherwise, too many Capcom costumes would be released with the same character). I still don't think a RE rep is likely as we got that spirit event back in 2019, but it could be a character from another Capcom franchise.

I definitely agree that this is totally possible. Yeah we already got Capcom Mii costumes, but it was literally just Monster Hunter and Ghosts n’ Goblins. It’s perfectly possible that they just have a bunch of Capcom costumes planned and decided to spread them out by releasing some of them with Pyra and the others with a Capcom newcomer. Dante, Vergil, Leon, Jill, Mike Haggar, Phoenix, Edgeworth, there is no shortage of Mii options. Literally, they could have an entire Mii costume wave made up of Street Fighter characters if they wanted.

But I guess Meowth being a Gen 1 Pokémon is why no one wants him.

If only Meowth was a Gen 7 or Gen 8 Pokémon...

“Generation representation” is so weird to me. People always liken Pokémon to Fire Emblem, but I don’t think it’s really a good comparison. FE rotates its cast every game, while Pokémon adds to its cast every game. Just because a generation has new Pokémon doesn’t mean that the older Pokémon aren’t still present. In Meowth’s case, while he is a Gen 1 Pokémon, you can still catch him in most games. Including Sword and Shield where he has both a brand new Galarian form and Gigantimax form. Yet, most people aren’t willing to count him as a Gen 8 rep simply because he didn’t debut in those games. I get why people think this way (Nintendo even seems to think this way), but I still find it odd.

 

[Technomage]

I definitely agree that this is totally possible. Yeah we already got Capcom Mii costumes, but it was literally just Monster Hunter and Ghosts n’ Goblins. It’s perfectly possible that they just have a bunch of Capcom costumes planned and decided to spread them out by releasing some of them with Pyra and the others with a Capcom newcomer. Dante, Vergil, Leon, Jill, Mike Haggar, Phoenix, Edgeworth, there is no shortage of Mii options. Literally, they could could have an entire Mii costume wave made up of Street Fighter characters if they wanted.

Other Capcom characters could include: Firebrand (Ghosts n' Goblins; yeah I know it'd be wierd to get a game's villain before its hero, but IIRC, Firebrand also had his own games), Strider Hiryu, MMZ Zero, Frank West, Morrigan Aensland, Tron Bonne, Nathan Spencer (Bionic Commando), Amaterasu, Amingo, Ruby Heart, Son Son III, and Captain Commando

Meowth needs to be on this list too.

But I guess Meowth being a Gen 1 Pokémon is why no one wants him.

If only Meowth was a Gen 7 or Gen 8 Pokémon...

What about one of its regional forms?

The ideal antagonist of a Smash story mode would be an interesting, very emotive character who could conceivably manipulate people into doing the dirty work, and would beat most of the roster in a fight.

Unfortunately I described Bill Cipher and he's not from a video game.

What about a villain who has extremely strong 4th-wall-breaking powers? I'm talking about Monika from Doki Doki Literature Club.

 

[cashregister9]

I am so mixed on if the Capcom costumes actually exclude Capcom or not.

On one hand Golden Icarus worded it perfectly, there is so much Capcom stuff that the costume wave is barely chump change.

On the other hand, I don't know if Nintendo really thought about how much Capcom there is and just sorta unceremoniously finished their deal with Capcom with that Mii wave and Depending on when Nintendo and Capcom knew about the release dates around the time of November 2019 the ordering could have changed to have a Capcom character in the slot instead of Pyra/Mythra. (Although that is just hypothetical.)

 

[Arcadenik]

What about one of its regional forms?

They would be great as Meowth’s alts.

 

[Perkilator]

Meowth needs to be on this list too.

But I guess Meowth being a Gen 1 Pokémon is why no one wants him.

If only Meowth was a Gen 7 or Gen 8 Pokémon...

I wish Meowth could’ve been one of the original 12 instead of Jigglypuff.

pic.twitter.com/jLAyobxORK

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) March 24, 2021

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Meowth needs to be on this list too.

But I guess Meowth being a Gen 1 Pokémon is why no one wants him.

If only Meowth was a Gen 7 or Gen 8 Pokémon...

I mean....

Spoiler

 

[cashregister9]

Saying Meowth should be in instead of Jigglypuff is not that hot of a take. Most people agree that Meowth was the bigger pokemon at the time but also Jigglypuff looked like Kirby so that's why Jigglypuff got in.

 

[Perkilator]

Saying Meowth should be in instead of Jigglypuff is not that hot of a take. Most people agree that Meowth was the bigger pokemon at the time but also Jigglypuff looked like Kirby so that's why Jigglypuff got in.

I didn’t necessarily make my post as if it were that hot of a take, I just remembered it as something I posted a while back.

 

[warubyun]

If we got another Pokémon rep, I'd much rather have Meowth than a Gen8.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

If we got another Pokémon rep, I'd much rather have Meowth than a Gen8.

I could honestly even budge with Meowth and Alolan and Galarian as alts. I'm not a big fan of any of the viable Gen 8 choices and Meowth while I guess more "muh Kanto pandering" is like an icon. Could technically be a villain rep if Team Rocket appeared in taunts too.