Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Lamperouge]

Alresdy seeing people on twitter reading to much into the figure **** and using it as proof that they would come to smash
View attachment 305945

Have a like for Lelouch.

 

[Shroob]

Anyway, in regards to Lloyd....


Still don't think he's likely. With, so far, every Mii costume returning in a non-playable role, that doesn't give me confidence in his chances, at all, coupled with the fact that, so far, every FP2 character has come with a returning Mii.


"But he's the last one!", a lack of evidence isn't evidence. Geno was held off until 3 months ago, and Monster Hunter was a frontrunner to a lot of people, look where we're at now. Just because we haven't seen the costume yet, doesn't suddenly improve his chances tenfold.



I'd be down for Lloyd no doubt, but there's still 2 Mii waves left, so pardon my skepticism of his chances.

 

[SharkLord]

For the Ys/Trails speculation, aren't they all connected by being inspired by Nihon Falcom's original Dragon Slayer series? So it kinda feels like an SNK and Terry situation to me, where they'd pick the posterchild and then put content from all the other series in as music or spirits. In my experience, I've seen Estelle's face most often in trailers or news articles or logos, sooooo...

Sorta?

Ys is often grouped with Dragon Slayer for being old action RPGs and having similar combat at first. However, there isn't any official connection. Trails does have a link to Dragon Slayer, but it's not very strong. It's a spinoff of the Legend of Heroes series, which itself was a spinoff of Dragon Slayer originally. However, it dropped the Dragon Slayer name starting with the third game, and now LoH is its own thing.

Dragon Slayer is pretty much just a name anyways; The games have no real links between each other beyond the name, and the spinoffs end up growing into their own series themselves, like Xanadu and Legend of Heroes. By now, Ys and Trails are their own distinct series, and I'm not sure if they'd share cameos or Spirits. Still, Falcom's music is made by the same company, so I could see us at least getting songs from throughout Falcom's history.

 

[Ivander]

being a submissive sweetheart in short shorts who loves her man and cooks for him isn't a power fantasy

looks at Emiya Shirou from Fate, who is practically a housewife, loves to cook for his girl and friends and will wreck the **** out of anybody who harms his loved ones and is one of the most popular Japanese male anime characters in Japan

I was about to mention the trope of the submissive girls(some of whom are Yanderes) who love their man, cook for them and is practically the scariest person to both her husband, her kids if any, and anybody who hurts them(practically almost any Mom character) as that is very much a common thing and can serve as potential power fantasy to some people.
But yeah, there is Emiya Shirou who does fit the submissive sweetheart who loves his girl and cooks for her and all his friends and will wreck the **** out of anybody who hurts them. So I guess some people do find a power fantasy somewhere in that.
And you know what? Good on anybody who is okay with that or wants that. If you find more power from having a submissive lifestyle than being a swordmaster without a shirt who can kill with a flick, than more power to ya.

 

[mariofan48]

On the contrary, a character does not need to have a figure in order to be added to Smash.

K Rool and Min Min, and like half of the Fire Emblem Cast (as far as I know) did not have any figurines prior to being added to Smash and prior to their amiibo being made, so Sakurai's statement isn't really "every character revealed for the game must have a figurine" that's really more of an interpretation than anything else.

 

[Pillow]

On the contrary, a character does not need to have a figure in order to be added to Smash.

K Rool and Min Min, and like half of the Fire Emblem Cast (as far as I know) did not have any figurines prior to being added to Smash and prior to their amiibo being made, so Sakurai's statement isn't really "every character revealed for the game must have a figurine" that's really more of an interpretation than anything else.

Technically, Sakurai said he had the figurines for the last 2 characters not that he had a figurine for every character. It's unclear how serious he was, but yeah.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Hey, where do you guy's get these from?

 

[Shinuto]

So using this collage of mine, which characters are still considered "safe"?

imgur.com

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like Shinuto.

imgur.com

 

[Guynamednelson]

So using this collage of mine, which characters are still considered "safe"?

imgur.com

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like Shinuto.

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idk i think pyra's screwed, don't see her getting added now.

 

[mariofan48]

Technically, Sakurai said he had the figurines for the last 2 characters not that he had a figurine for every character. It's unclear how serious he was, but yeah.

I honestly don't think Sakurai would not add a fighter just because a real life figure of them didn't exist. Like obviously if he knew that a figure for a character that he knew was going to be in Smash anyway existed he would probably get it, but I don't think he'd be in the planning stages like "oh this character doesn't have a figure? Welp guess I'm not adding them to Smash anymore."

Honestly, Sakurai was being way too vague for us to speculate on who's in and who's out just because of a "figurine" or lack there of.

 

[Wunderwaft]

So using this collage of mine, which characters are still considered "safe"?

imgur.com

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like Shinuto.

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These three lads

I'm joking man, I have no idea at this point.

 

[Firox]

We should stop calling it Palico. Palicos are specifically the Felynes that serves as the player's minions.

Felynes are the name of the species, and the name used for the playable Felynes in MH, Teppen, and the hat in Smash.

Not sure how familiar you are with MH lore, but are the Gajalaka a bunch of masked tribal Felynes or are they a different species of creature?

 

[ZelDan]

Technically, Sakurai said he had the figurines for the last 2 characters not that he had a figurine for every character. It's unclear how serious he was, but yeah.

I just rewatched the figurine part of the presentation, and Sakurai never even specifically said he had figurines for the last 2 fighters, he just made a general, broad statement saying "I actually hide figures of unreleased fighters in a locked drawer."

And as you said, Sakurai didn't say he had a figurine for EVERY character.

So just as much as this figurine stuff doesn't really narrow down who IS going to be in FP2, I don't know if it necessarily tells us who ISN'T in FP2 either.

 

[Firox]

Have a like for Lelouch.

ALL HAIL LELOUCH!

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hey, where do you guy's get these from?
View attachment 305951

N3ON

 

[SKX31]

I'm thinking, what are the balance changes of the pass going to look like?

i.e. who has had the most vocal hate-dom on Japanese boards. I worry for Min Min as every time I find a character who's ranged game matches my style, they get nerfed into oblivion (RIP Sackboy)

It's difficult to say since Nintendo doesn't use the same terms as the Smash community (Rapid Jab is called "Flurry Attack" by them for some reason) and - more importantly - they never list exact patch changes. Only "This character's F-Air hits harder". Granted, a lot of people aren't interested in exact numbers, but it'd be neat if they did since people will discover the exact changes anyway.

I don't personally expect the patch to be hugely game-changing - they've been focusing on adjusting multi-hits with the last two patches - but after this long it's possible that they could at least attempt something a bit bigger. Now they have data from the Japanese competitive community to work with.

But now that there's a Netflix adaptation, Davion is the clear DoTA frontrunner, and who wants that after shill boomer Sakurai put Trevor and Alucard in Smash over Simon and Richter?

I wouldn't mind AoE Splash damage all over the place (whether from the Breathe Fire cone or his dragon transformation's splash attack). The potential issue would be A) His stun lasting for ****ing ever (4 secs) and getting its range increased with dragon form and B) His passive being both armor and HP regen. Those two if translated literally could be pretty damn toxic.

Yeah, that's the only situation I can see it being last - as a result of some weird negotiation between Nintendo and Tencent, like we saw with Unite getting its own Direct. But I don't think any third party company has that much say about Smash DLC - we know Sakurai cares about being faithful to original games and all, but you'd think that the release order is up to him and his team.

Yeah, at the same time...

I can't discount that because Nintendo's practically given Tencent free reign when it comes to Switch sales in China. Now, that's just circumstancial stuff and it doesn't guarantee anything when it comes to Smash, but still.

(Edit: Looks like the item I listed - a Tencent-sold Ring Con holder - was pulled.)

So using this collage of mine, which characters are still considered "safe"?

imgur.com

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like Shinuto.

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Honestly, considering that most of them are not in playable form?

I'm tempted to say that none of them are safe with only 2 spots left in FP2.

 

[DevaAshera]

Anyway, in regards to Lloyd....


Still don't think he's likely. With, so far, every Mii costume returning in a non-playable role, that doesn't give me confidence in his chances, at all, coupled with the fact that, so far, every FP2 character has come with a returning Mii.

"But he's the last one!", a lack of evidence isn't evidence. Geno was held off until 3 months ago, and Monster Hunter was a frontrunner to a lot of people, look where we're at now. Just because we haven't seen the costume yet, doesn't suddenly improve his chances tenfold.

I'd be down for Lloyd no doubt, but there's still 2 Mii waves left, so pardon my skepticism of his chances.

I feel about the same way, honestly, and we really haven't gotten any of our supposed frontrunners and, when we came close, it hasn't quite been in ways we expected, like Pyra/Mythra w/o Rex.

A Namco character could still happen, a Tales character could still happen, but they're just as likely to choose Yuri or throw a curveball with Velvet than choose Lloyd.

We have to think like Sakurai here and think of characters that would bring some sort of new Mechanic. Like with my example above with Velvet, she could bring in a new mechanic centered around her Daemon Arm.

Pretty much all of the DLC characters have some sort of new mechanic or unique attribute that separates them from the rest of the characters.
- Rebel's Guard/Arséne
- Battle Menu
- Invincible Side-Special Attack
- Back Side Special, Extra Attacks
- Weapon Swapping based on Direction
- ARMS Mechanics
- Building & Crafting
- One-Winged Angel
- Stance Change/Transformation

Of those, Banjo is the one least different..but they still bring something new to the table. I didn't include Piranha Plant since it seems like it was intended for base game, having a Palutena's Guidance and all, and is even then kinda separated from all the other DLC characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

looks at Emiya Shirou from Fate, who is practically a housewife, loves to cook for his girl and friends and will wreck the **** out of anybody who harms his loved ones and is one of the most popular Japanese male anime characters in Japan

I was about to mention the trope of the submissive girls(some of whom are Yanderes) who love their man, cook for them and is practically the scariest person to both her husband, her kids if any, and anybody who hurts them(practically almost any Mom character) as that is very much a common thing and can serve as potential power fantasy to some people.
But yeah, there is Emiya Shirou who does fit the submissive sweetheart who loves his girl and cooks for her and all his friends and will wreck the **** out of anybody who hurts them. So I guess some people do find a power fantasy somewhere in that.
And you know what? Good on anybody who is okay with that or wants that. If you find more power from having a submissive lifestyle than being a swordmaster without a shirt who can kill with a flick, than more power to ya.

A big difference is that Emiya's not the 'appropriate' idealization from the 50's, nor does he get put in compromising positions at serious scenes like how Vandham's death gets a camera shot dedicated entirely to Pyra's ass because of course it does, while Pyra gets closeups to her face from a low camera angle so you can see her boobs swing back and forth. Nor do a majority of men be portrayed as sex objects in Fate Stay Night like how Poppi gets sexually abused by Tora while at least 3 dudes, Tora and Zeke included, sexually harass Morag because 'lol funny!!!!!'. Those aren't meant to be power fantasies like a handsome ripped super soldier who's name instills fear into his enemies and is so badass that everyone knows him, they're meant to be 'enjoyed' by horny people with low standards

 

[ZelDan]

I feel about the same way, honestly, and we really haven't gotten any of our supposed frontrunners and, when we came close, it hasn't quite been in ways we expected, like Pyra/Mythra w/o Rex.

A Namco character could still happen, a Tales character could still happen, but they're just as likely to choose Yuri or throw a curveball with Velvet than choose Lloyd.

We have to think like Sakurai here and think of characters that would bring some sort of new Mechanic. Like with my example above with Velvet, she could bring in a new mechanic centered around her Daemon Arm.

Pretty much all of the DLC characters have some sort of new mechanic or unique attribute that separates them from the rest of the characters.
- Rebel's Guard/Arséne
- Battle Menu
- Invincible Side-Special Attack
- Back Side Special, Extra Attacks
- Weapon Swapping based on Direction
- ARMS Mechanics
- Building & Crafting
- One-Winged Angel
- Stance Change/Transformation

Of those, Banjo is the one least different..but they still bring something new to the table.

Technically, I don't think Pyra/Mythra's transformation is really "new." Pokemon Trainer basically does the same thing in Ultimate, and Zelda/Sheik and (kinda) Samus/ZSS did too in past Smash games.

 

[Shroob]

A big difference is that Emiya's not the 'appropriate' idealization from the 50's, nor does he get put in compromising positions at serious scenes like how Vandham's death gets a camera shot dedicated entirely to Pyra's ass because of course it does, while Pyra gets closeups to her face from a low camera angle so you can see her boobs swing back and forth. Nor do a majority of men be portrayed as sex objects in Fate Stay Night like how Poppi gets sexually abused by Tora while at least 3 dudes, Tora and Zeke included, sexually harass Morag because 'lol funny!!!!!'. Those aren't meant to be power fantasies like a handsome ripped super soldier who's name instills fear into his enemies and is so badass that everyone knows him, they're meant to be 'enjoyed' by horny people with low standards

Emiya does have other issues though.

Definitely issues not safe to bring up here.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Technically, I don't think Pyra/Mythra's transformation is really "new." Pokemon Trainer basically does the same thing in Ultimate, and Zelda/Sheik and (kinda) Samus/ZSS did too in past Smash games.

No, but it's a different take on it considering how , , and are not semiclones of one another, but have completely different movesets.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Emiya does have other issues though.

Definitely issues not safe to bring up here.

Wait what?

 

[SpecterFlower]

I feel about the same way, honestly, and we really haven't gotten any of our supposed frontrunners and, when we came close, it hasn't quite been in ways we expected, like Pyra/Mythra w/o Rex.

A Namco character could still happen, a Tales character could still happen, but they're just as likely to choose Yuri or throw a curveball with Velvet than choose Lloyd.

We have to think like Sakurai here and think of characters that would bring some sort of new Mechanic. Like with my example above with Velvet, she could bring in a new mechanic centered around her Daemon Arm.

Pretty much all of the DLC characters have some sort of new mechanic or unique attribute that separates them from the rest of the characters.
- Rebel's Guard/Arséne
- Battle Menu
- Invincible Side-Special Attack
- Back Side Special, Extra Attacks
- Weapon Swapping based on Direction
- ARMS Mechanics
- Building & Crafting
- One-Winged Angel
- Stance Change/Transformation

Of those, Banjo is the one least different..but they still bring something new to the table. I didn't include Piranha Plant since it seems like it was intended for base game, having a Palutena's Guidance and all, and is even then kinda separated from all the other DLC characters.

tbf bylth doesn't really have a gimmick, tons of other fighters use more than one tool to fight.

 

[Shroob]

Wait what?

I mean, depends if you lump Emiya in with Archer as the same character, to which, if you know, you know.

 

[DevaAshera]

Technically, I don't think Pyra/Mythra's transformation is really "new." Pokemon Trainer basically does the same thing in Ultimate, and Zelda/Sheik and (kinda) Samus/ZSS did too in past Smash games.

I know, but that why I put Stance Change in there as well. Their attacks, aside from Specials & Final Smash, stay the same but with different stats & attributes, which is definitely different from any transformation character we've had before.
Aside from transforming, she's essentially just changing her stats and a few moves. She's like a character with her own built-in Echo Fighter, essentially.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

tbf bylth doesn't really have a gimmick, tons of other fighters use more than one tool to fight.

Like for example.

 

[SirBillyBob]

My face when people think figure theory is actually a serious thing:

 

[ZelDan]

No, but it's a different take on it considering how , , and are not semiclones of one another, but have completely different movesets.

So it's the same concept, but with less effort/thought put into it?

I guess that's "different" in a way, but eh, not enough to really matter as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Like for example.

yeah if it was a gimmick it should've been like, change the weapon and the entire move set changes not , fair is a stick, dair is an axe, up air is a whip word.

that's not a gimmick, it's just a regular moveset.

 

[Faso115]

So here is a pattern that hasn't been broken yet:

Every Fighter Pass newcomer has an unique victory song.

Here comes a Gen 8 pokemon to ruin my theory now.

 

[SpecterFlower]

So here is a pattern that hasn't been broken yet:

Every Fighter Pass newcomer has an unique victory song.

Here comes a Gen 8 pokemon to ruin my theory now.

song thoery

 

[DevaAshera]

tbf bylth doesn't really have a gimmick, tons of other fighters use more than one tool to fight.

They do, but Byleth is unique in that hers uses the same weapon for a given direction, like Up is only Sword, Down is only Axe, Neutral is only Bow, and Side is only Lance. It's still a unique gimmick of her character even amongst other multi-weapon characters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

yeah if it was a gimmick it should've been like, change the weapon and the entire move set changes not , fair is a stick, dair is an axe, up air is a whip word.

The most unique thing about is his up special due to its weird properties.

 

[N3ON]

I feel about the same way, honestly, and we really haven't gotten any of our supposed frontrunners and, when we came close, it hasn't quite been in ways we expected, like Pyra/Mythra w/o Rex.

A Namco character could still happen, a Tales character could still happen, but they're just as likely to choose Yuri or throw a curveball with Velvet than choose Lloyd.

We have to think like Sakurai here and think of characters that would bring some sort of new Mechanic. Like with my example above with Velvet, she could bring in a new mechanic centered around her Daemon Arm.

Pretty much all of the DLC characters have some sort of new mechanic or unique attribute that separates them from the rest of the characters.
- Rebel's Guard/Arséne
- Battle Menu
- Invincible Side-Special Attack
- Back Side Special, Extra Attacks
- Weapon Swapping based on Direction
- ARMS Mechanics
- Building & Crafting
- One-Winged Angel
- Stance Change/Transformation

Of those, Banjo is the one least different..but they still bring something new to the table. I didn't include Piranha Plant since it seems like it was intended for base game, having a Palutena's Guidance and all, and is even then kinda separated from all the other DLC characters.

This is reverse engineering from the outcome. Sakurai is just adept at creating interesting mechanics for characters because it's his job and he's been doing it for a long time (and he has people who help him). These characters aren't chosen by virtue of the interesting mechanic they bring. Otherwise it's quite the coincidence they all end up being pretty prominent characters from pretty prominent series or games. It's popularity/prominence that does it. In other words, business as usual.

And even if that wasn't the case and they did work backwards from a gimmick, if every character so far qualifies, it's not going to be any use narrowing the field.

Hey, where do you guy's get these from?
View attachment 305951

Here's the thread:

Media - Ultimate Siggy Icons, by N3ON

Hiya! So in the past I've posted the icons I've made here and there, but in the face of people asking where they can actually find them, I thought a thread would be in order. So below you'll find (almost) all the character icons I've made, ordered alphabetically. No longer accepting requests...

smashboards.com

Hope you find what you're looking for. But if not, feel free to make a request. Though I only update it sporadically.

 

[SpecterFlower]

They do, but Byleth is unique in that hers uses the same weapon for a given direction, like Up is only Sword, Down is only Axe, Neutral is only Bow, and Side is only Lance. It's still a unique gimmick of her character even amongst other multi-weapon characters.

so pit has a gimmick then that he can switch stance from big sword to two small sword's even though that changes nothing at all?

they are all still regular moves, a gimmick should be something irregular or abnormal, byleth has nothing of the such, terry has a back b, that isn't normal it's a gimmick, pyra has a swap that's not normal it's a gimmick, byleth has a different up smash from their down smash, that's something everyone does.

 

[mariofan48]

So using this collage of mine, which characters are still considered "safe"?

imgur.com

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like Shinuto.

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Here's my opinion on where all these characters stand:

Cyan Checkmark: Already in Smash
Green Checkmark: Likely
Red X: Out of the running (Whether due to Mii Costume deconfirmation or any other circumstances)
Straight Yellow Line: Still a decent possibility
Straight Grey Line: Not outright Red X status, but not as likely as the yellow line, maybe it could happen through sheer miracle?
Blue Square: Mii Costume (normal or deluxe)


I might have missed some characters, but I think I marked all of them.

Spoiler

 

[Ivander]

I mean, depends if you lump Emiya in with Archer as the same character, to which, if you know, you know.

It...kinda depends. Especially considering Shirou never really goes through the same experience as Archer. Although that's mostly because we never get to see the Shirou who becomes Archer, as Archer came from a timeline that was very different supposedly, including the possibility that a different Archer was summoned.

 

[Pillow]

I wouldn't mind AoE Splash damage all over the place (whether from the Breathe Fire cone or his dragon transformation's splash attack). The potential issue would be A) His stun lasting for ****ing ever (4 secs) and getting its range increased with dragon form and B) His passive being both armor and HP regen. Those two if translated literally could be pretty damn toxic.

If Sakurai looks at the entire DoTA roster and chooses the most white bread ass anime sword guy of the whole lot then I'll lose all hope for this game.

I mean, depends if you lump Emiya in with Archer as the same character, to which, if you know, you know.

I thought you meant Emiya's issues were that he's kind of a punk ass b*tch. I'm not sure becoming a buff god killing badass in a future timeline is really an issue.

 

[Shroob]

If Sakurai looks at the entire DoTA roster and chooses the most white bread ass anime sword guy of the whole lot then I'll lose all hope for this game.


I thought you meant Emiya's issues were that he's kind of a punk ass b*tch. I'm not sure becoming a buff god killing badass in a future timeline is really an issue.

I'm more talking about the whole Emiya Alterstuff and how his origin, not in lore but from a design standpoint is kinda yikes.

 

[BlondeLombax]

My face when people think figure theory is actually a serious thing:

Man, Demoman is just a forum weapon goldmine, ain’t he?