Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[True Blue Warrior]

Is it fair to call it prominent when they literally shut down their Western branches due to loss of money?

The Professor Layton series is more iconic than any Falcom or ArcSys made franchises, having sold over 17 million. Calling them minor just because of more recent failure without noting their legacy is just recency bias.

 

[Heoj]

So like, when do pyra/mythra even release, like in terms of how many hours?


Also I can't be the only person still confident in a capcom rep.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Person sneaks into Sakurai's house to find the next fighter, when suddenly...

gasp!

Scandalous!
It's Sakurai's sock drawer!

Toriel
Guides you to the Blast Zone!

Y'all thought you were just gonna go on a panty raid in Sakurai's office, but instead you unknowingly found the next two fighters, so not only are you stealing people's underwear, you're also stealing confidential information. Reputation RUINED


I'd understand if you didn't wanna come but.... you know... if you don't wanna come then...

 

[N3ON]

I feel like people have been a bit quick to jump the gun throughout this entire Fighters Pass. Obviously, these were different people making these comments, but I remember people saying...

(after presentation) "This is the start of a trend! The whole Fighters Pass is going to focus on first party characters! There may be one third party character included, but it would make the most sense financially for them to focus on Nintendo characters."
(after presentation) "This is a sign that Fighters Pass 2 will focus on newer games/series. Next up - Jonesy from Fortnite!"
(after presentation) "Sephiroth being included is a sign that we're going to get another unique character from an already-represented series - Chun-Li/Eggman is definitely happening."
(after presentation) "This means that if a character doesn't have an action figure, they stand no chance of getting in!" (with "these four Mii costumes confirm that every single Capcom character stands no chance of being included" on the side)

(no offense meant to people who support Chun-Li, Eggman, or Jonesy; those are just names that came up a lot largely due to who the previous reveal was)

This isn't the case for everyone who's speculating, but it seems like every time we get a reveal, some people seem to think that the next character is going to follow a pattern set by the previous reveal, even if the supposed pattern doesn't really work. (how many action figures of Little Mac, Corrin, Sheik, the Ice Climbers, or Greninja were there prior to them being selected for the Smash roster?)

It didn't used to be this bad. I feel like people are getting dumber.

EDIT: I couldn't be more thrilled this is my 20000th post

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So like, when do pyra/mythra even release, like in terms of how many hours?


Also I can't be the only person still confident in a capcom rep.

Probably 9-10 at night.

 

[7NATOR]

Out of honest curiosity, what makes you so confident? I'd love to see an assist trophy promotion.

It's hard to describe everything, but it's just a combination of alot of Factors, and it's mainly not based of the idea that we will get an Assist Promotion, but more the merits of the Specific characters

Personally I'm thinking either Shadow, Waluigi, or a Combination of Both

-Both are Very Popular characters that are both Relevant, Heavily requested (Especially Waluigi), and would say Iconic as well

-Ease of access since Waluigi is Nintendo, and Shadow is Sega character

-Both already have Models ingame to re-use. Bomberman shows this in effect since his Mii Costume is just his AT Model that's upscaled to the quality of Playable fighters. We also see that Most, if not all the characters in FP2 are re-using models from other sources, perhaps to save time

-Speaking on Bomberman, It shows that Assist characters are being reconsidered in their roles, and I would say Shadow and Waluigi are perhaps bigger deal than Bomberman

-If Papagenos was being true to his word, that Evidence thing he talked about Late July 2020 that pointed toward Geno, Waluigi and/or "Other Unlikely characters" should still be in play. If we are gonna assume that Geno's Regular mii costume was negotiated at the same time as his Spirit, than I would say it implies something more important happening with one or multiple of the 3 other characters this evidence implies of

-Waluigi has also apparently been in the rumor mill also. The sources aren't the most "Reliable" but there is some info there that does suggests some consideration

-There's also been speculation that the lack of Luigi's Mansion 3 Spirits could be because it's being saved for something. This is in assumption that the Spirit board is made AFTER the fighter is chosen, and the Spirit board is not taken into account. Considering that ARMS and Especially Xenoblade Chronicles 2 already had good amount of Spirits, that could be the case

-The Lack of a Villains/Rival tourney with Sephiroth could imply that it may be saved for another character in this Pass that would use this same thing. The counter argument is that there already was a Hero vs Villains tournament back with Hero, but perhaps they'd have an exclusive one with only the Villains/Rival characters

-Sega has not gotten a Costume at all in FP2, Unlike Konami, Capcom, Square, and Namco. Sega (And Namco) also haven't gotten any New made costumes not tied to characters. Square also fits this, but they got fighters in both passes though

If you want to follow the Hype Cycle theory, than these 2 would kind of fit, if you compare them to the Rest of the Pass

-As Assist trophies, they already have some sort of role in the gameplay already, that's on bigger plane than Spirits. there could be the argument that some people might feel scammed that Nintendo held these characters of to take our money (since I know there some people that believe Assists already have majority of moveset completed

-Waluigi is another Mario character, which already has alot of content already in Smash. He's also controversial perhaps.

-Shadow is Heavily Controversial, despite being the 2nd Most popular Sonic character. there's also the fact that some people will still believe that they would be paying for "Echo of Sonic" even if he had the most unique moveset in the game

-Min Min, despite her being a weird start to the pass, is a Franchise that did not have a character already, same with Steve. Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra come from already represented franchises. If both Shadow and Waluigi were in, they would definitely continue this trend

-As characters from already represented franchises, they are mainly appealing to people already playing Smash now more than characters from New franchises.

-At the same time, if they were wanting to have a big character for around June since FP2 would go over what would be 2 E3's (even if E3 might not be a factor anymore) than Shadow and Waluigi would be Inclusions that would fit the event

-If they are looking to Reveal characters when they'd be most relevant, June is Perfect for character like Shadow since that is Sonic's Official start to the 30th anniversary.


So that's why I believe Either Waluigi, Shadow, or both of them will be 1 or both of the Last FP2 characters, and by proxy why I think we will get an Assist Trophy promotion in this Pass

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Person sneaks into Sakurai's house to find the next fighter, when suddenly...

gasp!

Scandalous!
It's Sakurai's sock drawer!

Toriel
Guides you to the Blast Zone!

Not gonna lie, when I started reading this I was expecting an "actual cannibal Shia Labeouf" reference.

 

[Heoj]

Probably 9-10 at night.

uuuuhh, i mean, like were probably not in the same timezone, so like, i meant in terms of how many hours until they release?

 

[2006ToyotaTacoma]

So like, when do pyra/mythra even release, like in terms of how many hours?


Also I can't be the only person still confident in a capcom rep.

Most likely later this evening (9 PM I believe on the US East Coast).

Also, I believe a Capcom rep can still happen, but their chances have been hurt by this development.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai being horny on main

Sakurai to those asking for swimsuit alts.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Should be around 6PM when we get the girls over here. What am I gonna do until then?

 

[Megadoomer]

So like, when do pyra/mythra even release, like in terms of how many hours?


Also I can't be the only person still confident in a capcom rep.

About five or six hours, I think?

I agree that a Capcom character still feels likely - the only ones that those Mii costumes ruled out seemed to be Arthur and Monster Hunter.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Should be around 6PM when we get the girls over here. What am I gonna do until then?

I don't know about you, but I'm gonna pee on the moon, hoping that Eggman will come to Smash

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sakurai to those asking for swimsuit alts.

And yet Sephiroth can take off his shirt? SEXISM!

 

[Dan Quixote]

And yet Sephiroth can take off his shirt? SEXISM!

ngl it's probably like at least a teeny bit sexism that they're being so strict on Pyhtra compared to Sephiroth or Shulk. Probably on Japan's part there.

 

[Ivander]

Ah, you mean Ichiro Ogami.

That's it. I kept thinking Ichigo, but my mind kept telling me that was most likely not it, so I didn't want to say it in case it was wrong.

That aside, when I first saw him watching PxZ2 interactions, he reminded me so much of Lloyd for some reason. Suddenly, that makes sense with them being done by the same artist.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Alresdy seeing people on twitter reading to much into the figure **** and using it as proof that they would come to smash

 

[rexfan53]

The Professor Layton series is more iconic than any Falcom or ArcSys made franchises, having sold over 17 million. Calling them minor just because of more recent failure without noting their legacy is just recency bias.

Layton sold more than Ace attorney ? Wow you learn something new everyday l. That's crazy

 

[BlondeLombax]

I don't know about you, but I'm gonna pee on the moon, hoping that Eggman will come to Smash

Man, I never get tired of that dub. I hope Alfred’s doing alright now, I saw he got into some health trouble earlier...
But yeah, I can see Eggman as likely, even moreso if we get an FP3.

 

[PacificFun]

Hot damn, what if Lara Croft is still in the running (if we ignore the whole going over budget thing)?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Man, I never get tired of that dub. I hope Alfred’s doing alright now, I saw he got into some health trouble earlier...
But yeah, I can see Eggman as likely, even moreso if we get an FP3.

health trouble

What kind of health trouble...?

 

[SNEKeater]

Uh...
View attachment 305926
Yeah. Looks like they've been more focused on Trails/Kiseki for the past decade or so. I'm the resident Ys guy and I'm optimistic in Adol's chances, but I think this thread tends to just brush Trails to the side like it's nothing. Ys may have more legacy, but I'd argue that Trails is Falcom's main focus nowadays.

To clarify in case anyone didn't know, Kiseki games are Trails games, but some of them as the image shows have not been localized to the West or not yet and for that reason some of these Trails games don't have an official localizated title.

At the same time, while Trails is more popular, Falcom's president also said that if the next Trails game doesn't sell well, they might stop doing games for the series. So there's that lol.

Reminds me of SNK's situation a bit, tbh. KoF is arguably their biggest series and it's still active, but Terry is Mr. SNK himself, so he was the one to get in. The difference, as I remember you putting it, is that Trails and Ys' relationship isn't that clear in terms of which is more popular/iconic.

So personally, maybe it could go either way?

Yeah, I think it could go either way. Lately I feel Adol is more likely but I would not understimate a Trails character. In any case, at this point I think the best spot for a Falcom rep would be CP11, assuming CP10 will be more of a crowd pleasing pick or a popular and big name.

I also believe Estelle had the focus of the Trails 15th (Or was it 20th?) anniversary logo. Overall, it seems that legacy is favored over recency, with Joker being the only clear outlier (Hero's murky). With Trails being Falcom's big focus as of late, it seems like statistically Estelle's in the best spot.

She had the focus in all the anniversaries logos as far as I know:

I think there was one logo for the fifth anniversary but I don't find it.

I personally think Sakurai would go with Estelle if he's given freedom to choose any Trails character. If what Nintendo wants is just a Falcom character and doesn't care if it's from Ys or Trails, then I don't know. In that scenario I feel Sakurai might go with Ys and Adol, I always felt he's a kind of guy that usually prefers the classic/legacy aspect when it comes to long-running series. So far the exception would be Joker.

 

[Shroob]

........people seriously taking "Figurine Theory" as a legit thing?

Really?

 

[PacificFun]

ngl it's probably like at least a teeny bit sexism that they're being so strict on Pyhtra compared to Sephiroth or Shulk. Probably on Japan's part there.

Pyra and Mythra are overtly sexual characters (in character design) so that's probably why. I mean, they have jiggle physics to boot.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

ngl it's probably like at least a teeny bit sexism that they're being so strict on Pyhtra compared to Sephiroth or Shulk. Probably on Japan's part there.

Here's a fun game. Look up "Smash Bros Sephiroth" and see how long it takes for a thumbnail with Shirtlessroth. For me, it was the 21st video, a VGBootcamp vid where it was used because one of the players used that alt. Now do the same for Pyra and Mythra. Last time I did this I got cropped porn on thumbnails, "KARENS OUTRAGED BY SMASH!", "Rex and Mythra sleeping together" and a video by a known creep lusting over women going "SMASH HAS WAIFUS?!" In the title. Not to mention Sephiroth doubles as a power fantasy, being a submissive sweetheart in short shorts who loves her man and cooks for him isn't a power fantasy

 

[TwiceEXE]

........people seriously taking "Figurine Theory" as a legit thing?

Really?

I think most are talking about it in a tongue-in-cheek manner. Pretty sure they realize it doesn't mean much.

After all, I don't see many people realize that the truth about "Figurine Theory", which is - "only characters that have figurines which show the bottoms of their feet can get in."

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Man, I never get tired of that dub. I hope Alfred’s doing alright now, I saw he got into some health trouble earlier...
But yeah, I can see Eggman as likely, even moreso if we get an FP3.

I joked before, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the last two characters weren't "Sonic and a Pokemon".

Like... "Amy and Decidueye"

or "Eggman and Pokemon Trainer 2"

Something like that. Truly wouldn't surprise me. Y'all expect a ninja and an orange bandicoot but instead you get a pink hedgehog and an owl in a hoodie. I'm just saying "it's possible".

Cue the part where they drive right on in with a Luigi's Mansion 3 Gooigi pack hahaha

 

[Pillow]

........people seriously taking "Figurine Theory" as a legit thing?

Really?

Hey, I'm for whatever helps strengthen the case for some degenerate weeb **** in Smash.

ngl it's probably like at least a teeny bit sexism that they're being so strict on Pyhtra compared to Sephiroth or Shulk. Probably on Japan's part there.

Sexual objectification of characters in video games is a rather complicated subject. The main reason why shirtless dudes are okay for lower standard ratings is because it's mostly guys playing games. Rating systems are dumb a f.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Here's a fun game. Look up "Smash Bros Sephiroth" and see how long it takes for a thumbnail with Shirtlessroth. For me, it was the 21st video, a VGBootcamp vid where it was used because one of the players used that alt. Now do the same for Pyra and Mythra. Last time I did this I got cropped porn on thumbnails, "KARENS OUTRAGED BY SMASH!", "Rex and Mythra sleeping together" and a video by a known creep lusting over women going "SMASH HAS WAIFUS?!" In the title. Not to mention Sephiroth doubles as a power fantasy, being a submissive sweetheart in short shorts who loves her man and cooks for him isn't a power fantasy

Honestly if Sakurai went with this design just to minimize the amount of deranged videos like that I wouldn't even blame him.

 

[DarthEnderX]

We should stop calling it Palico. Palicos are specifically the Felynes that serves as the player's minions.

Felynes are the name of the species, and the name used for the playable Felynes in MH, Teppen, and the hat in Smash.

keep crying. palico is in next smash

He's as in as Rex!

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

........people seriously taking "Figurine Theory" as a legit thing?

Really?

Just to be clear, I was honestly just having a laugh with my Seifuku Densetsu Pretty Fighter "Figure theory/Fit Boxing" bit earlier. I hope that got across

 

[Wunderwaft]

In a just world we would get Kevin as our Falcom rep, unfortunately we do not live in a just world. Yes I'm playing Trails in the Sky Third right now and I reached "that" part, hence the song.

My gut instinct tells me it's probably gonna be Rean. The Cold Steel games were hugely successful games that came out in a time when Falcom were desperate. Kondo, who is the head honcho at Falcom, changes his answer whenever someone asks him who his favorite Falcom character is. One time he said Estelle, then one time he said Dana from Ys 8, then in a later interview he said Rean. He did admit he tends to change his answer depending on how he feels and when time passes, so unfortunately we can't deduce the clear cut favorite from Falcom.

In terms of pure legacy Adol is the clear cut, in terms of profit and recency Rean has this in the bag. I want to be more confident on Estelle but the Sky games not being ported to the PS4 or the Switch makes me doubt her chances even though she appears in later entries.

If I have to rank them I'd go Rean >= Adol > Estelle. Do keep in mind I think this is quite a tight race and the differences in likelihood between the three is quite small imo, it can easily be Estelle even if I think she's less likely than the other two.



But seriously put Kevin in

 

[SharkLord]

She had the focus in all the anniversaries logos as far as I know:

I think there was one logo for the fifth anniversary but I don't find it.

I personally think Sakurai would go with Estelle if he's given freedom to choose any Trails character. If what Nintendo wants is just a Falcom character and desn't care if it's from Ys or Trails, then I don't know. In that scenario I feel Sakurai might go with Ys and Adol, I always felt he's a kind of guy that usually prefers the classic/legacy aspect when it comes to long-running series. So far the exception would be Joker.

Eeyup, those are the ones. I think it's safe to say that Estelle's still considered the face of Trails, even if she's not the main character anymore. As for Ys vs Trails in general, that could go either way. Ys has lots of legacy and is still going to this day, but Trails has been gaining quickly. At least we know that Kondo would go with Adol had it not been for the moveset issues, so if Sakurai goes to him for reference like with ARMS and Yabuki, I think we'd end up with Adol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly if Sakurai went with this design just to minimize the amount of deranged videos like that I wouldn't even blame him.

I'm pretty sure he went with them because CERO got on his ass for the designs. Remember, XB2 has a C rating in Japan, which is CERO's way of saying 15+

In a just world we would get Kevin as our Falcom rep, unfortunately we do not live in a just world. Yes I'm playing Trails in the Sky Third right now and I reached "that" part, hence the song.

My gut instinct tells me it's probably gonna be Rean. The Cold Steel games were hugely successful games that came out in a time when Falcom were desperate. Kondo, who is the head honcho at Falcom, changes his answer whenever someone asks him who his favorite Falcom character is. One time he said Estelle, then one time he said Dana from Ys 8, then in a later interview he said Rean. He did admit he tends to change his answer depending on how he feels and when time passes, so unfortunately we can't deduce the clear cut favorite from Falcom.

In terms of pure legacy Adol is the clear cut, in terms of profit and recency Rean has this in the bag. I want to be more confident on Estelle but the Sky games not being ported to the PS4 or the Switch makes me doubt her chances even though she appears in later entries.

If I have to rank them I'd go Rean >= Adol > Estelle. Do keep in mind I think this is quite a tight race and the differences in likelihood between the three is quite small imo, it can easily be Estelle even if I think she's less likely than the other two.



But seriously put Kevin in

View attachment 305947

Kevin gets Grail Sphere as a special, getting full on invincibility for a single attack every time it's cast while he zones you out with his crossbow. Mac players seen crying at their worst matchup yet

 

[Dan Quixote]

For the Ys/Trails speculation, aren't they all connected by being inspired by Nihon Falcom's original Dragon Slayer series? So it kinda feels like an SNK and Terry situation to me, where they'd pick the posterchild and then put content from all the other series in as music or spirits. In my experience, I've seen Estelle's face most often in trailers or news articles or logos, sooooo...

 

[Wunderwaft]

Kevin gets Grail Sphere as a special, getting full on invincibility for a single attack every time it's cast while he zones you out with his crossbow. Mac players seen crying at their worst matchup yet

Ahh but that's not all

Spoiler: Trails in the Sky Third Spoilers

Kevin can go full Gilgamesh from Fate and summon magical projectiles from out of nowhere and spam them at his foes.

But yes I do agree that Kevin would be one of Mac's worst matchups

 

[Cutie Gwen]

For the Ys/Trails speculation, aren't they all connected by being inspired by Nihon Falcom's original Dragon Slayer series? So it kinda feels like an SNK and Terry situation to me, where they'd pick the posterchild and then put content from all the other series in as music or spirits. In my experience, I've seen Estelle's face most often in trailers or news articles or logos, sooooo...

Ok. So. Ys is it's own thing, though Falcom got the gameplay from Dragon Slayer. Trails is a spinoff of The Legend of Heroes, which is a spinoff off of Dragon Slayer. Dragon Slayer itself seemingly does whatever the **** it wants, name recognition be damned

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

To clarify in case anyone didn't know, Kiseki games are Trails games, but some of them as the image shows have not been localized to the West or not yet and for that reason some of these Trails games don't have an official localizated title.

At the same time, while Trails is more popular, Falcom's president also said that if the next Trails game doesn't sell well, they might stop doing games for the series. So there's that lol.



Yeah, I think it could go either way. Lately I feel Adol is more likely but I would not understimate a Trails character. In any case, at this point I think the best spot for a Falcom rep would be CP11, assuming CP10 will be more of a crowd pleasing pick or a popular and big name.



She had the focus in all the anniversaries logos as far as I know:

I think there was one logo for the fifth anniversary but I don't find it.

I personally think Sakurai would go with Estelle if he's given freedom to choose any Trails character. If what Nintendo wants is just a Falcom character and doesn't care if it's from Ys or Trails, then I don't know. In that scenario I feel Sakurai might go with Ys and Adol, I always felt he's a kind of guy that usually prefers the classic/legacy aspect when it comes to long-running series. So far the exception would be Joker.

Estelle is a high pick for me, one I would sacrifice 2B for but I sincerely doubt Sakurai is even looking at Falcom so I didn't even want to fight that battle.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Layton sold more than Ace attorney ? Wow you learn something new everyday l. That's crazy

it had a much higher peak, the difference is Ace Attorney is still in the public conscious and has a bright future,

Level-5 is going to shutdown soon, anyone with perspective on sales can see that, they are doing seriously god awful which is a shame but they made really dumb decisions and it was entirely their fault they're in this position..

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Estelle is a high pick for me, one I would sacrifice 2B for but I sincerely doubt Sakurai is even looking at Falcom so I didn't even want to fight that battle.

Then it's settled, we thwack Sakurai's brains to mush with a very large stick until he caves and adds Estelle.