Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

I thought you meant Emiya's issues were that he's kind of a punk ass.

Hey so uhhhh the site has an autocensor so the word I removed there would get censored automatically if you type it out normally. Censoring a single letter counts as dodging the censors and believe me, mods really like getting on your ass for that

I'm more talking about the whole Emiya Alterstuff and how his origin, not in lore but from a design standpoint is kinda yikes.

All my experience was the DEEN anime so I'll need a bit of clarification here. Though I'm assuming you mean how he suddenly has melanin

 

[Pillow]

I'm more talking about the whole Emiya Alterstuff and how his origin, not in lore but from a design standpoint is kinda yikes.

Ah. My familiarity with Fate is limited to the original anime, Zero and UBW so I guess I have no idea what you’re talking about.

I will say that, if people are criticizing Xenoblade 2 character design, I wouldn’t exactly look to Fate for better examples. Both series are about as stock anime as you can get.

Hey so uhhhh the site has an autocensor so the word I removed there would get censored automatically if you type it out normally. Censoring a single letter counts as dodging the censors and believe me, mods really like getting on your ass for that

All my experience was the DEEN anime so I'll need a bit of clarification here. Though I'm assuming you mean how he suddenly has melanin

I’ll keep that in mind, thanks.

 

[DevaAshera]

So it's the same concept, but with less effort/thought put into it?

I guess that's "different" in a way, but eh, not enough to really matter as far as I'm concerned.

Which is why it's more like she's changing stats and specials with a visual representation of transformation.
It's not really 'less thought', as its likely exactly how Sakurai wanted it.

so pit has a gimmick then that he can switch stance from big sword to two small sword's even though that changes nothing at all?

they are all still regular moves, a gimmick should be something irregular or abnormal, byleth has nothing of the such, terry has a back b, that isn't normal it's a gimmick, pyra has a swap that's not normal it's a gimmick, byleth has a different up smash from their down smash, that's something everyone does.

It's still a gimmick, just not a mechanic-based gimmick.
Sakurai intentionally made the weapons correspond to certain directional inputs as a gimmick rather than just putting them in for random directions.
It's also a shorthand way of assuming the power, speed, and reach of an attack, for the most part, without knowing the moveset.

No other weapon-based character uses the same particular weapon based on directional input..you don't see Simon use an Cross for every Neutral Attack, you don't see Pit use an Arm for every Side attack, so it's still a unique gimmick, even if it's not a new mechanic.

 

[Shroob]

Hey so uhhhh the site has an autocensor so the word I removed there would get censored automatically if you type it out normally. Censoring a single letter counts as dodging the censors and believe me, mods really like getting on your ass for that

All my experience was the DEEN anime so I'll need a bit of clarification here. Though I'm assuming you mean how he suddenly has melanin

Basically

Emiya, like a lot of characters, has an "Alter" version, which is usually the edgy, evil version. From a lore standpoint, Emiya's tanned because using his magic basically frys him, making his skin progressively more and more tanned, and Emiya Alter is basically when he takes that to the EXTREME where it basically burns him to a crisp.

Still with me?


Tl;dr, the person who was in charge of designing Emiya Alter for FGO designed him under the mindset of "What if Emiya went to prison", and the game isn't subtle about it either. When he's introduced, one character remarks he acts like a drug dealer, and in the Japanese version, there was a joke calling him "Detroit Emiya", or Demiya. Said joke never made it to the English version, and his skin color was changed in the English version to be less stereotype-ish.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

Not sure how familiar you are with MH lore, but are the Gajalaka a bunch of masked tribal Felynes or are they a different species of creature?

Galajaka aren't feylines, they're more humanoid


And if a feyline would become a fighter, they'd probably be known as a prowler

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Basically

Emiya, like a lot of characters, has an "Alter" version, which is usually the edgy, evil version. From a lore standpoint, Emiya's tanned because using his magic basically frys him, making his skin progressively more and more tanned, and Emiya Alter is basically when he takes that to the EXTREME where it basically burns him to a crisp.

Still with me?


Tl;dr, the person who was in charge of designing Emiya Alter for FGO designed him under the mindset of "What if Emiya went to prison", and the game isn't subtle about it either. When he's introduced, one character remakes he acts like a drug dealer, and in the Japanese version, there was a joke calling him "Detroit Emiya", or Demiya. Said joke never made it to the English version, and his skin color was changed in the English version to be less stereotype-ish.

Hmmm yes, I see the issue here and I was partially right. El Grande Oof.

 

[SpecterFlower]

No other weapon-based character uses the same particular weapon based on directional input..you don't see Simon use an Cross for every Neutral Attack, you don't see Pit use an Arm for every Side attack, so it's still a unique gimmick, even if it's not a new mechanic.

well we can agree to diagree i guess

i still think byleth is the most boring DLC character mechanic's wise but he's my 4th favourite DLC character so i think they're pretty cool despite that.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Basically

Emiya, like a lot of characters, has an "Alter" version, which is usually the edgy, evil version. From a lore standpoint, Emiya's tanned because using his magic basically frys him, making his skin progressively more and more tanned, and Emiya Alter is basically when he takes that to the EXTREME where it basically burns him to a crisp.

Still with me?


Tl;dr, the person who was in charge of designing Emiya Alter for FGO designed him under the mindset of "What if Emiya went to prison", and the game isn't subtle about it either. When he's introduced, one character remarks he acts like a drug dealer, and in the Japanese version, there was a joke calling him "Detroit Emiya", or Demiya. Said joke never made it to the English version, and his skin color was changed in the English version to be less stereotype-ish.

Good ****ing god thats terrible

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It's still a gimmick, just not a mechanic-based gimmick.
Sakurai intentionally made the weapons correspond to certain directional inputs as a gimmick rather than just putting them in for random directions.
It's also a shorthand way of assuming the power, speed, and reach of an attack, for the most part, without knowing the moveset.

No other weapon-based character uses the same particular weapon based on directional input..you don't see Simon use an Cross for every Neutral Attack, you don't see Pit use an Arm for every Side attack, so it's still a unique gimmick, even if it's not a new mechanic.

Still makes Byleth less unique than BK, as their side special having limited uses per stock is an important part of their gameplay. Their neutral special also has a unique property to it.

 

[Pillow]

well we can agree to diagree i guess

i still think byleth is the most boring DLC character mechanic's wise but he's my 4th favourite DLC character so i think they're pretty cool despite that.

Yeah I didn’t mind the inclusion of Byleth like a lot of people here, but his moveset really didn’t click for me. I really wish they focused on a different aspect of 3H for the character like battalions or something and just kept the chain sword for all his normals. The axe and bow both feel pretty terrible for all the moves they’re involved in.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Still makes Byleth less unique than BK, as their side special having limited uses per stock is an important part of their gameplay. Their neutral special also has a unique property to it.

Honestly this makes me laugh as usually I see people insist Banjo was the only character without a gimmick despite the limited uses. I swear, some people think the word 'gimmick' inherently means 'evil bad unfun mechanic'

 

[Ivander]

All my experience was the DEEN anime so I'll need a bit of clarification here. Though I'm assuming you mean how he suddenly has melanin

Magic circuits, son...yeah, I don't get why using alot of projection with heavy effects on your magic circuits equals a tan. That aside...

Basically

Emiya, like a lot of characters, has an "Alter" version, which is usually the edgy, evil version. From a lore standpoint, Emiya's tanned because using his magic basically frys him, making his skin progressively more and more tanned, and Emiya Alter is basically when he takes that to the EXTREME where it basically burns him to a crisp.

Still with me?


Tl;dr, the person who was in charge of designing Emiya Alter for FGO designed him under the mindset of "What if Emiya went to prison", and the game isn't subtle about it either. When he's introduced, one character remakes he acts like a drug dealer, and in the Japanese version, there was a joke calling him "Detroit Emiya", or Demiya. Said joke never made it to the English version, and his skin color was changed in the English version to be less stereotype-ish.

His skin was color changed to that of Regular Emiya. Which is fine. But yeah, his design was supposedly meant to be a stereotype to some sort of Japanese prison inmate or something similar or related to Ganguro, but the Detroit joke really does not help their case. Emiya Alter by himself is a great character, but I'm certainly hoping that they learned from the reception to his design.

 

[DevaAshera]

Good ****ing god thats terrible

Yeah..sadly not a lot of Japanese people have experience with things outside of Japan through anything other than foreign media, so they sometimes take stereotypes that are offensive and aren't aware they're offensive..in this case they think 'this is what people in prison look like' based on the stereotypes present in our media..at least that's what I'm hoping happened..
Sometimes they're knowingly racist, but usually it's just down to being ignorant, like with the Native American G&W removed before release...and sometimes just accidentally due to not considering how something could be perceived due to it not being a think in Japan, like the Donkey Kong representing Mr. Sandman Spirit.. which would seem to be the best choice ability-wise but not for now it could be perceived..

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah..sadly not a lot of Japanese people have experience with things outside of Japan through anything other than foreign media, so they sometimes take stereotypes that are offensive and aren't aware they're offensive..in this case they think 'this is what people in prison look like' based on the stereotypes present in our media..at least that's what I'm hoping happened..
Sometimes they're knowingly racist, but usually it's just down to being ignorant, like with the Native American G&W removed before release...and sometimes just accidentally due to not considering how something could be perceived due to it not being a think in Japan, like the Donkey Kong representing Mr. Sandman Spirit.. which would seem to be the best choice ability-wise but not for now it could be perceived..

Nah the feather HAS to be because of an oversight as they censored that back in 2004 or some **** when they brought Fire to the GBA

 

[Pillow]

Yeah..sadly not a lot of Japanese people have experience with things outside of Japan through anything other than foreign media, so they sometimes take stereotypes that are offensive and aren't aware they're offensive..in this case they think 'this is what people in prison look like' based on the stereotypes present in our media..
Sometimes they're knowingly racist, but usually it's just down to being ignorant, like with the Native American G&W removed before release...and sometimes just accidentally due to not considering how something could be perceived due to it not being a think in Japan, like the Donkey Kong representing Mr. Sandman Spirit.. which would seem to be the best choice ability-wise but not for now it could be perceived..

Due to its very long dark history with racism, American audiences in particular tend to be very sensitive towards this sort of thing, which is prevalent in lots of countries other than Japan. Japan just gets a lot of flak for its particularly tendency to black face in a lot of its media, which started from WWII propaganda.

 

[SpecterFlower]

so how do you all like my new signature? huh it's not showing up for me.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Yeah..sadly not a lot of Japanese people have experience with things outside of Japan through anything other than foreign media, so they sometimes take stereotypes that are offensive and aren't aware they're offensive..in this case they think 'this is what people in prison look like' based on the stereotypes present in our media..at least that's what I'm hoping happened..
Sometimes they're knowingly racist, but usually it's just down to being ignorant, like with the Native American G&W removed before release...and sometimes just accidentally due to not considering how something could be perceived due to it not being a think in Japan, like the Donkey Kong representing Mr. Sandman Spirit.. which would seem to be the best choice ability-wise but not for now it could be perceived..

Oh Im black, im 100% aware of how japan sees us sometimes lolthe donkey knog one is a strech tho, i didnt see anything wrong with that

 

[MooMew64]

Yo I was sleepin' during those Mii Costumes. Really bland picks IMHO.

Pyra and Mythra are dope, though: Looking forward to playing as 'em.

 

[Lamperouge]

so how do you all like my new signature?

Why not just move Neku and Sol into the second row?

 

[SpecterFlower]

Why not just move Neku and Sol into the second row?

why would i though?

 

[N3ON]

I don’t think Byleth really has a gimmick. The motif of the moveset is using multiple weapons, but it doesn’t cause it to exceed the standard moveset framework.

Banjo does have a gimmick, it’s just one that doesn’t encompass the whole moveset/character. Rather, just one move. So, a bit like how Kirby has a gimmick.

I do think Banjo could qualify as a “gimmick” character, where Byleth doesn’t really, but you’d have to recognize some gimmicks are more comprehensive than others.

Doesn’t really matter in the end. And the premise this started from is inherently faulty.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

so how do you all like my new signature? huh it's not showing up for me.

Signatures only appear on the first post you made that page, and on mobile, they only show up when you rotate the phone horizontally

 

[SpecterFlower]

I don’t think Byleth really has a gimmick. The motif of the moveset is using multiple weapons, but it doesn’t cause it to exceed the standard moveset framework.

Banjo does have a gimmick, it’s just one that doesn’t encompass the whole moveset/character. Rather, just one move. So, a bit like how Kirby has a gimmick.

I do think Banjo could qualify as a “gimmick” character, where Byleth doesn’t really, but you’d have to recognize some gimmicks are more comprehensive than others.

Doesn’t really matter in the end. And the premise this started from is inherently faulty.

i think sometimes people confuse unique moves for gimmicks.

Signatures only appear on the first post you made that page, and on mobile, they only show up when you rotate the phone horizontally

well next page i guess.

 

[DevaAshera]

Nah the feather HAS to be because of an oversight as they censored that back in 2004 or some **** when they brought Fire to the GBA

Honestly, it was likely Sakurai trying to stay true to the original G&W Fire design unaware of it being racist.

Due to its very long dark history with racism, American audiences in particular tend to be very sensitive towards this sort of thing, which is prevalent in lots of countries other than Japan. Japan just gets a lot of flak for its particularly tendency to black face in a lot of its media, which started from WWII propaganda.

Pretty much, they rarely see other races, so most of their depictions end up based on media..especially if that media gets popular there like a lot of very racist cartoons & books they got from the same era as the Forbidden Looney Tunes shorts and even before.

Thankfully the internet age is starting to have a much more positive effect on how they depict other races in their media..but its still slow going..

 

[Polan]

i honestly dont know who to expect now. i was riding on monster hunter and they are out so what character am i going to irrationally assume is in now based on gut feelings?

 

[Pillow]

i honestly dont know who to expect now. i was riding on monster hunter and they are out so what character am i going to irrationally assume is in now based on gut feelings?

I was hoping for Phoenix but that dream seems dead. Now I’m all in for Master Chief/Doomslayer + UwU anime girl east meets west duo to finish off the pass.

 

[Golden Icarus]

i honestly dont know who to expect now. i was riding on monster hunter and they are out so what character am i going to irrationally assume is in now based on gut feelings?

Just hop on the Hayabusa train. It’s been going strong and has only gathered more momentum as time’s passed.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I was hoping for Phoenix but that dream seems dead. Now I’m all in for Master Chief/Doomslayer + UwU anime girl east meets west duo to finish off the pass.

UwU anime girl

soooooo Reimu?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, it was likely Sakurai trying to stay true to the original G&W Fire design unaware of it being racist.

Pretty much, they rarely see other races, so most of their depictions end up based on media..especially if that media gets popular there like a lot of very racist cartoons & books they got from the same era as the Forbidden Looney Tunes shorts and even before.

Thankfully the internet age is starting to have a much more positive effect on how they depict other races in their media..but its still slow going..

... Hence why I called it an oversight as nobody in NoJ caught it and neither did NoA.


Oh no, Japan has it's own issue with this stuff, it's not always unintentional as lots of Japanese right wingers are fully aware of the implications. It's more like it's so normalized that people who don't know better assume it's fine.

i honestly dont know who to expect now. i was riding on monster hunter and they are out so what character am i going to irrationally assume is in now based on gut feelings?

Sasuke obviously

 

[DevaAshera]

i honestly dont know who to expect now. i was riding on monster hunter and they are out so what character am i going to irrationally assume is in now based on gut feelings?

My only expected character was Pyra, though paired with Rex like most thought would happen. I have no expectations now..it could be anyone from Sora or Crash to Saber or Reimu.
I'm looking forward to whoever gets in though as, aside from Steve, I've loved everything addition even if they aren't ones I'd pick. We've gotten popular, obscure, Western popular, Japanese popular, Worldwide popular, 3rd Party, 1st Party, etc. Sky's the limit in our final stretch.

Oh no, Japan has it's own issue with this stuff, it's not always unintentional as lots of Japanese right wingers are fully aware of the implications. It's more like it's so normalized that people who don't know better assume it's fine.

Oh, I know, like the Dragon Quest composer and his BS views..I just tend to give the benefit of the doubt if they aren't 'loud & proud' about it since I understand how depictions in media can cause misconceptions easily, especially if there's no one to really correct your mindset..

 

[SpecterFlower]

... Hence why I called it an oversight as nobody in NoJ caught it and neither did NoA.


Oh no, Japan has it's own issue with this stuff, it's not always unintentional as lots of Japanese right wingers are fully aware of the implications. It's more like it's so normalized that people who don't know better assume it's fine.

Sasuke obviously

the ending to Catherin is a bit, why? it really sucks.

 

[Pillow]

soooooo Reimu?

Reimu, Miku, and Haruka would be my top choices for that category yeah. My favorite 2hu character is Cirno, but that’s not happening.

 

[spicynun]

I'm still hoping for Tales of or Phoenix but I'm on the Chosen Undead train now

 

[Firox]

Pretty much, they rarely see other races, so most of their depictions end up based on media..especially if that media gets popular there like a lot of very racist cartoons & books they got from the same era as the Forbidden Looney Tunes shorts and even before.

Thankfully the internet age is starting to have a much more positive effect on how they depict other races in their media..but its still slow going..

I mean, you do have to take into account how racially homogenous Japan is. They still have some schools insist that all the kids have their hair dyed black even if their natural hair color is something else. Conformity is a huge part of their culture which is a total 180 from the US's hyper-individualistic mentality. Granted, both cultures have their pros and cons, but yeah, it takes a while for global cultures to overlap. In some cases though, some countries would prefer NOT to emulate western cultural norms. It's a pipe dream to expect the entire world to share all the same culture views since the demographics are unique to each area.

 

[DevaAshera]

I know I added to the conversation, but we should probably get back off-topic before we get reprimanded.

I sure hope the Pyra Update gets put out soon..I'm eager to try her out. She has the power of Byleth and Mythra has the Speed of Lucina with both having the same moveset, aside from Specials, so I don't have learn two movesets and can use the same moves in different situations. She definitely seems like a new main for me.

 

[SharkLord]

It might be a bit too soon to tell, but this seems to be the speculative scene for the time being:

• Elma, KOS-MOS, and any other Xeno rep won't be seeing much attention anymore
  • Because of this, first-party discussion could go anywhere, now that the most obvious choice is gone and SwSh is no longer the most recent installment in the series
• Monster Hunter is no longer one of the big "safe" frontrunners anymore
  • Capcom as a whole looks to be dead, actually. Some might argue otherwise, but the majority seem to believe that Capcom's not in a good spot. So no more Dante, no more Monster Hunter, no more Chun-Li, etc.
• Crash and Hayabusa are the remaining "safe" picks, but the amount of time that's gone on without them getting in has put a damper on many people's expectations. There's been a growing stigma against "safe," oft-discussed picks, and faith in those two have been shaken.
• All eyes are on Lloyd, the last remaining third-party Mii Costume. There's a split between "Lloyd's time is now!" and "Lloyd is DEAD, press F to pay respects." Single-company passes have let him delay his Mii's return, but will that be enough?
• We now have hard confirmation that FP2 will be the end, and the possibility of FP3 has plummeted considerably. The last two will be the last we're getting it seems, so who knows how that'll affect attitudes.

 

[Firox]

I'm not gonna lie, Mythra looks busted to me. That Nair alone is pretty sick. It's like Byleth and Cloud's Sm4sh Nair had a super saiyan baby. Couple that with Pyra's INSANE kill power. I'm telling you right now, if Pyra's Up B is 9 frames or faster, we're going to be looking at potentially the deadliest out of shield option in the game.

 

[Pillow]

I know I added to the conversation, but we should probably get back off-topic before we get reprimanded.

I sure hope the Pyra Update gets put out soon..I'm eager to try her out. She has the power of Byleth and Mythra has the Speed of Lucina with both having the same moveset, aside from Specials, so I don't have learn two movesets and can use the same moves in different situations. She definitely seems like a new main for me.

Mythra looks much faster than Lucina. Can’t wait to play Smash online with several seconds delay against Mythra spamming dodge to move around then switching to Pyra to spam Fsmash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Reimu, Miku, and Haruka would be my top choices for that category yeah. My favorite 2hu character is Cirno, but that’s not happening.

Those three were my Weeby Trinity in 2010

that takes me back

idk about Miku tho specifically cause she’s technically a music software

 

[Evil Trapezium]

• Crash and Hayabusa are the remaining "safe" picks, but the amount of time that's gone on without them getting in has put a damper on many people's expectations. There's been a growing stigma against "safe," oft-discussed picks, and faith in those two have been shaken.

I'd say if Crash Bandicoot isn't Fighter #10 then he isn't in Smash. Fighter #10 feels like an 'E3 2021' pick.