Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[spicynun]

These next two are gonna cause some huge upsets, thats all I know

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I'd say if Crash Bandicoot isn't Fighter #10 then he isn't in Smash. Fighter #10 feels like an 'E3 2021' pick.

Unless both characters are at E3, then FP11 is also an E3 pick.

 

[SharkLord]

I'd say if Crash Bandicoot isn't Fighter #10 then he isn't in Smash. Fighter #10 feels like an 'E3 2021' pick.

Of course, it's not a guarantee that CP10 is at E3. If the faster, two-month release dates hold up, we could see CP10 in May and leave CP11 with enough time for a June reveal, or maybe we could get a double reveal like with Hero and Banjo. Of course, those are still what-ifs; We'll have to wait a couple months to see if those are plausible.

 

[DevaAshera]

Mythra looks much faster than Lucina. Can’t wait to play Smash online with several seconds delay against Mythra spamming dodge to move around then switching to Pyra to spam Fsmash.

Yeah, I misworded that lol I had that in my head as I was talking to my brothers about how she looked to combine some strength of two of my mains, Byleth & Lucina.

 

[SpecterFlower]

I'm not gonna lie, Mythra looks busted to me. That Nair alone is pretty sick. It's like Byleth and Cloud's Sm4sh Nair had a super saiyan baby. Couple that with Pyra's INSANE kill power. I'm telling you right now, if Pyra's Up B is 9 frames or faster, we're going to be looking at potentially the deadliest out of shield option in the game.

Im probably never going to play s anyone else again so if pyra becomes smash 4 bayonetta 2: Electric boogaloo im not sorry for what im going to do to everyone online.

oh hey i can see my signature now, it looks beautiful

 

[Shroob]

Even though I don't think it means anything, because I still expect Lloyd to show up as a Mii


Doesn't this only boost the Tales of Chun Leak?



Chun Li was always said to have been replaced by Ken, nowhere does it say that they were going back to her at all.


Meanwhile, Lloyd is missing, and the leak mentioned Lloyd and Yuri.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Even though I don't think it means anything, because I still expect Lloyd to show up as a Mii


Doesn't this only boost the Tales of Chun Leak?



Chun Li was always said to have been replaced by Ken, nowhere does it say that they were going back to her at all.


Meanwhile, Lloyd is missing, and the leak mentioned Lloyd and Yur.

ahh my favourite tales of character, YUR.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

I think that the next fighter is going to be revealed around June, and the final around November. I highly doubt we're going to see both of them by summertime.

 

[7NATOR]

It might be a bit too soon to tell, but this seems to be the speculative scene for the time being:

• Elma, KOS-MOS, and any other Xeno rep won't be seeing much attention anymore
  • Because of this, first-party discussion could go anywhere, now that the most obvious choice is gone and SwSh is no longer the most recent installment in the series
• Monster Hunter is no longer one of the big "safe" frontrunners anymore
  • Capcom as a whole looks to be dead, actually. Some might argue otherwise, but the majority seem to believe that Capcom's not in a good spot. So no more Dante, no more Monster Hunter, no more Chun-Li, etc.
• Crash and Hayabusa are the remaining "safe" picks, but the amount of time that's gone on without them getting in has put a damper on many people's expectations. There's been a growing stigma against "safe," oft-discussed picks, and faith in those two have been shaken.
• All eyes are on Lloyd, the last remaining third-party Mii Costume. There's a split between "Lloyd's time is now!" and "Lloyd is DEAD, press F to pay respects." Single-company passes have let him delay his Mii's return, but will that be enough?
• We now have hard confirmation that FP2 will be the end, and the possibility of FP3 has plummeted considerably. The last two will be the last we're getting it seems, so who knows how that'll affect attitudes.

I think Hayabusa MAY have benefitted from Today, because there may be speculation that Lloyd's costume is being saved for a character with a Katana, which Ryu uses. Of course it depends on the person, especially if they believe Lloyd would be a character, but I think that should be mentioned

I think New companies though have had more of a shift in their favor, With Capcom perhaps being seen as dead. Konami, Square, and Microsoft seem to be done too, and No one thinks SNK will get another Fighter.

So there's really Namco, Sega, and Nintendo left for veteran companies. I do think more people are gonna speculate on the Options from Newer companies though. They already were but Capcom characters always had some sort of major presence in Speculation, so I think today was a Blow


I think the DLC tourney should be payed attention to, or even the tourneys after that. Here are the potential tourneys to watch out for

-Bladed/Swordfighter Tourney
-2010's Tourney
-Fire Tourney

 

[Shroob]

I think that the next fighter is going to be revealed around June, and the final around November. I highly doubt we're going to see both of them by summertime.

I mean, why?

We've been getting characters 2-3 months apart. Don't see why we'd suddenly be waiting 5 months between CP10 and CP11.

 

[SKX31]

Yeah..sadly not a lot of Japanese people have experience with things outside of Japan through anything other than foreign media, so they sometimes take stereotypes that are offensive and aren't aware they're offensive..in this case they think 'this is what people in prison look like' based on the stereotypes present in our media..at least that's what I'm hoping happened..
Sometimes they're knowingly racist, but usually it's just down to being ignorant, like with the Native American G&W removed before release...and sometimes just accidentally due to not considering how something could be perceived due to it not being a think in Japan, like the Donkey Kong representing Mr. Sandman Spirit.. which would seem to be the best choice ability-wise but not for now it could be perceived..

- Invincible Side-Special Attack

Semi-minor nitpick: Grabs do counteract Wonderwing, although in practice it's difficult to do since Wonderwing's a pretty good burst option up close.

I don’t think Byleth really has a gimmick. The motif of the moveset is using multiple weapons, but it doesn’t cause it to exceed the standard moveset framework.

Banjo does have a gimmick, it’s just one that doesn’t encompass the whole moveset/character. Rather, just one move. So, a bit like how Kirby has a gimmick.

I do think Banjo could qualify as a “gimmick” character, where Byleth doesn’t really, but you’d have to recognize some gimmicks are more comprehensive than others.

Doesn’t really matter in the end. And the premise this started from is inherently faulty.

Another thing have that's often not mentioned is that Egg Fire can stance change into Breegull Blaster. The two modes do have different knockback, which seems minor (and kinda is casually) - Egg Fire is more for keepaway, Breegull Blaster knocks the opponent up a bit. But to quote DougEfresh, it allows for some more intricate stuff:

learn to use Breegull Blaster for low and mid percent combos, and kill confirms at higher percents (his main one being BB > Utilt at about 100 - 120% on most of the cast). However, if you REALLY want to get more advanced, there's a new tech with BB called Kazooie Fast Cancel (KFC) that allows Banjo to true combo into fsmash and wonderwing for MUCH earlier kills. There's a lot of intricacies here, so I advise checking out Banjocord for more details, where we'd be happy to answer your questions.

(No breegulls were harmed in the making of this post.)

I'm not gonna lie, Mythra looks busted to me. That Nair alone is pretty sick. It's like Byleth and Cloud's Sm4sh Nair had a super saiyan baby. Couple that with Pyra's INSANE kill power. I'm telling you right now, if Pyra's Up B is 9 frames or faster, we're going to be looking at potentially the deadliest out of shield option in the game.

Pyra / Myhtra are giving me hardcore vibes - massive offensive threat, but might be light and get KOed early. Also, unlike Sephiroth both Pyra and Myhtra might have a wonky time recovering (as I speculated about in the competitive thread). But still, things are going to blow up when those two are released.

And as someone who loves it when stuff blows up in the metaphorical Smash Bros. arena, I'm all for it.

 

[Polan]

oh yeah whatever became of those extra notification posts. are we waiting for the update to drop to see whats up with those?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

oh yeah whatever became of those extra notification posts. are we waiting for the update to drop to see whats up with those?

I am wondering about that too

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Unless both characters are at E3, then FP11 is also an E3 pick.

Of course, it's not a guarantee that CP10 is at E3. If the faster, two-month release dates hold up, we could see CP10 in May and leave CP11 with enough time for a June reveal, or maybe we could get a double reveal like with Hero and Banjo. Of course, those are still what-ifs; We'll have to wait a couple months to see if those are plausible.

I mean I could see a potential double reveal just to wrap up Fighter Pass 2 quicker. I was thinking more on the lines of a seasonal spread like early, mid and late year releases for 2020 and 2021 since I'm guessing that's what they were originally planning on.

 

[Firox]

Im probably never going to play s anyone else again so if pyra becomes smash 4 bayonetta 2: Electric boogaloo im not sorry for what im going to do to everyone online.

To be fair, I don't think we'll ever see anything as broken as Sm4sh Bayo ever again. Firstly, Sm4sh Bayo had the uncanny ability to 0-death people by comboing them all the way off the top of the screen. Secondly, her perfect mix of frame data, angular tools and broken down B made her virtually unkillable in the right hands. Pythra, on the other hand, doesn't have any such ladder combos (that we know of) and her notable lack of reflector/counter/spammable zoning tools (no, I think Pyra's side B is too slow to be very oppressive) I think will make her susceptible to ultra spammy zoners like the Belmonts, Zelda, etc. Also, range demons like Seph, Byleth and Min Min may prove problematic despite Mythra's mobility.

In short, I can easily see Pythra as top 10 material, but there will definitely be counter play. That's one of my favorite things about Ultimate's balancing. NOBODY is flat unbeatable as long as the right character and approach are taken.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So, one thing most of us have glossed over after the presentation: what about those extra notification slots? 4 were for Miis, but that still leaves 4 more.

I'd assume one is for P/M's tourney, but what of the last 3?

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

My three guesses for "the final pair". No particular order.

1. The 3rd Party Pair, Crash/Spyro and Hayabusa: They've been speculated to death and back (moreso Crash than Spyro) and... yeah, seeing Crash as "the E3 pick" makes perfect sense. Hayabusa has been floating around for quite some time as well. This pair would, IMO, break the "tradition" of the last Smash characters being "less hype", but hey, that'd just be "another fan rule" broken.

2. The Anniversary Pair, a Sonic character and a Pokemon: Not BECAUSE of their anniversaries per se, but of any of the third parties, SEGA I can see getting another character possibly, especially with how rabid Sonic fans in particular can be. Now whether that character is someone like Doctor Eggman or someone just a bit more left field like Amy, that's anyone's guess. Kind of the same with a Pokemon, especially since we're no longer really talking about "Sword and Shield" specifically anymore, we also have other titles. Does Decidueye get his second chance thanks to Legends, or are we going full on Sinnoh Trainer? Perhaps even a late New Pokemon Snap thing? The options are as endless as the Pokemon themselves. IMO: "Sonic and a Pokemon" would fit right in with Smash's usual "the last characters aren't often as hype as people tend to expect" line.


3. The "I'm Kind of Joking" Pair, Gooigi/King Boo and Ayumi Tachibana: One shills a game that is just coming out of Nintendo's back catalog and would be "a new retro pick", the other is from a game that came out quite some time ago but beyond Luigi's Poltergust of choice is still MIA (Xenoblade 2 and Three Houses were MIA for a while too). Luigi's Mansion 3 and Famicom Detective Club: The Instantly Familiar and The Nintendo Diehard. Both Nintendo Characters to end off your Nintendo fighting game. Still in line with the whole "final characters are a bit less hype than the expectation" angle.


There's also the possibility of a little mix and match between these in my head as well, such as "Pokemon and Hayabusa" or what have you, but for the time being until I change it or whatever, this is where my speculation lies as of now, post-Pyra/Mythra.

 

[7NATOR]

Even though I don't think it means anything, because I still expect Lloyd to show up as a Mii


Doesn't this only boost the Tales of Chun Leak?



Chun Li was always said to have been replaced by Ken, nowhere does it say that they were going back to her at all.


Meanwhile, Lloyd is missing, and the leak mentioned Lloyd and Yuri.

Yeah. I think Chun always got the most focus because at that time, it was really the first time people took Chun-Li seriously, while Lloyd, and Yuri to a point has been a Player in the speculation scene for awhile

But It always seemed like there was more in Tales of getting something more than Chun-Li, specifically because there didn't seem to be a replacement for Tales like there could have been for Chun. Plus, if Smash 4 was any indication, Ken was probably already decided to be the 2nd rep anyways since he was the only character besides Ryu to have any sort of content in that game



With that being said, If I had to be honest, From what I've seen on Rumors and informed speculation from some knowledgeable people, there seems to be heavy doubt in Bandai Namco getting any sort of fighter. Well I guess it's mostly that comment from Imran, and honestly I don't think he knows who the last 2 are, but perhaps he might know that Bamco might not be getting any Fighters

It's probably just his Speculation though, So I'm not going to take it as Gospel. in any case I'm going to go pay attention to what Pyra/Mythra's DLC tourney is, because depending on what it is may or may not change my thoughts on Lloyd and/or Tales of

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The character isn't even out and we're getting comparisons to a character who couldn't get fixed because of timing. I think that's a new record

 

[SharkLord]

I think Hayabusa MAY have benefitted from Today, because there may be speculation that Lloyd's costume is being saved for a character with a Katana, which Ryu uses. Of course it depends on the person, especially if they believe Lloyd would be a character, but I think that should be mentioned

Not really? I haven't seen anyone really describe Lloyd's swords as katanas, and either way we already got a katana wielder with Sephiroth. Don't think anyone's really connected the dots with Lloyd and Hayabusa.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm not gonna stick around for the same reasons as before, but I'd like to give my thoughts on Pyra/Mythra since this is kinda the only place I can do so and I like talking about things.

The technical difficulties in implimenting Rex & Pyra/Mythra, while not something I originally considered, do make a lot of sense, especially considering even Morgana has to dip out when there are too many characters (doesn't explain how Burning Sword, Sacred Arrow, and Pair Up work, though I imagine it has something to do with how Final Smashes work). I still don't think solo Pyra and Mythra were a good choice though, as they can't properly represent their game by themselves, and as the game's only representatives, they really should. As much as it would sadden me for this to happen, I do think that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 would be better off without a character than with Rex or the Aegis by themselves.

That being said though, I do like Pyra and Mythra as characters, and they look super fun, so from here on out, I'll enjoy them for what they are.

Random thoughts:

• UUUUUUUUUUUGH!!!They ruined Counterattack. They somehow managed to make it sound like there are too many and too few instruments going on at the same time, and they got rid of the emotional bit in favor of looping way too soon so now it's repetitive.
  • And of course, the original isn't available alongside it.
  • I don't get it. Xenoblade Chronicles's music is so good, why are at least half of the remixes so garbo?
  • I hope Sakurai just worded it poorly and the two stages aren't getting their music separated for no reason.
• Why did they name drop Pyra & Mythra's spoiler form but then censor it later? If you don't want spoilers just don't put them in the game ya numnuts.
  • Doesn't bother me that much though. Knowing of her existence isn't something that would actively ruin a first timer's experience unlike how a certain seventh party member would. Yes I'm still miffed about that one.
• Those black pallet swaps tho...noice.
• The pallet swap pallets don't change the swords to match! IT BURRRNS!!!
• I wonder how much Pyra will see use competitively. Usually I'd expect her to not see use because slow = bad, but she's not that slow, and holy crap that damage.
  • I do know there won't be many Pyra mains though since Mythra has a way better recovery and recovery is good. My question is more "will everyone just main Mythra?".
• Holy crap, Photon Edge is now the most flashy normally accessible move by a mile.
• EDIT: Also, wasn't expecting Pyra to be the more powerful one since it's the inverse in the game both story wise and mechanically.

 

[Shroob]

Not really? I haven't seen anyone really describe Lloyd's swords as katanas, and either way we already got a katana wielder with Sephiroth. Don't think anyone's really connected the dots with Lloyd and Hayabusa.

So, explain yourself. What's your opinion on this now? You wanted this to be more than the Chun Leak, and here we are suddenly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not really? I haven't seen anyone really describe Lloyd's swords as katanas, and either way we already got a katana wielder with Sephiroth. Don't think anyone's really connected the dots with Lloyd and Hayabusa.

Jokes on you, one of the early game weapons Lloyd can get are literally called Katanas. I got halfway through the game and that's somehow what I remember clearly

 

[Shinuto]

Here's my opinion on where all these characters stand:

Cyan Checkmark: Already in Smash
Green Checkmark: Likely
Red X: Out of the running (Whether due to Mii Costume deconfirmation or any other circumstances)
Straight Yellow Line: Still a decent possibility
Straight Grey Line: Not outright Red X status, but not as likely as the yellow line, maybe it could happen through sheer miracle?
Blue Square: Mii Costume (normal or deluxe)


I might have missed some characters, but I think I marked all of them.

Spoiler

Why is Shantae out?

 

[SharkLord]

Jokes on you, one of the early game weapons Lloyd can get are literally called Katanas. I got halfway through the game and that's somehow what I remember clearly

Aw frick

Kids, the moral of this story is to play the game you're talking about. Don't be like me, folks.

 

[7NATOR]

Not really? I haven't seen anyone really describe Lloyd's swords as katanas, and either way we already got a katana wielder with Sephiroth. Don't think anyone's really connected the dots with Lloyd and Hayabusa.

I have seen Lloyd's Sword described as Katanas. Especially the regular white swords as those are Katanas. His Blue and Red Materail blades is debateable perhapss

now with Sephiroth, the logic is that Square costumes only come with Square, so if Hayabusa is also in this pass (and I don't think he had exclusive Koei Costumes) that Lloyd would instead come with him. This is of course assuming Lloyd just stays as a Costume

I hope Sakurai just worded it poorly and the two stages aren't getting their music separated for no reason.

I think he means that the Default settings is that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 music is Prioritized on the Gramps stage, with Xenoblade Chronicles 1 music taking priority on Gaur Plains, but you can change the settings. It works like how the Mario Music works as an example

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Aw frick

Kids, the moral of this story is to play the game you're talking about. Don't be like me, folks.

It's ok, I'll forgive you if you write an essay on Velvet. You did play Berseria, right?

 

[Schnee117]

Aw frick

Kids, the moral of this story is to play the game you're talking about. Don't be like me, folks.

"Huge Symphonia fan excited to play it for the first time"

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Jokes on you, one of the early game weapons Lloyd can get are literally called Katanas. I got halfway through the game and that's somehow what I remember clearly

This is...incorrect? He never gets any katanas nor a weapon literally called katanas. I believe you might be remembering his "rapier" weapon.

 

[SKX31]

It's probably just his Speculation though, So I'm not going to take it as Gospel. in any case I'm going to go pay attention to what Pyra/Mythra's DLC tourney is, because depending on what it is may or may not change my thoughts on Lloyd and/or Tales of

But it ain't true Smash Speculation unless we take stuff on the internet like this as gospel for no good reason! Bring out the hymns!

Aw frick

Kids, the moral of this story is to play the game you're talking about. Don't be like me, folks.

Now, you must commit sudoku for this dishonor to the fanbase.

 

[SharkLord]

It's ok, I'll forgive you if you write an essay on Velvet. You did play Berseria, right?

Well, uh...
You see, I have been playing nothing buy Ys for the past couple months. Maybe a bit of Atelier on the side, plus Smash whenever I'm bored. So yeah, not much room for anything else.

In other words, my life is nothing but Ys and I have lost all control

"Huge Symphonia fan excited to play it for the first time"

That's pretty much me with most of the series I'm into, actually. I learn about the games on SmashBoards, listen to the music, read up on everything that goes on, and add it to the list of games I'll check out eventually, which is growing longer to this day. Think a lot of it stems from how I only get one or two games a month, so so I can properly sink my time into it and not develop an overflowing backlog.

So yeah, that's a pretty accurate description of me

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This is...incorrect? He never gets any katanas nor a weapon literally called katanas. I believe you might be remembering his "rapier" weapon.

I just double checked and we're both right, he doesn't have a weapon simply named Katana but he has multiple weapons that are just katanas, I'm probably remembering a description then. Muramasa, Masamune and Ninja Sword are all very katana-y.

 

[Firox]

Those black pallet swaps tho...noice.

Agreed. Instantly my go-to alt.

The character isn't even out and we're getting comparisons to a character who couldn't get fixed because of timing. I think that's a new record

I know, right? People speculating about a character in the DLC speculation thread. Who'da thunk?

 

[Technomage]

Agreed. Instantly my go-to alt.

Same here, mate.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Does anyone mind tagging me when Pyra and Mythra drop?

 

[Guynamednelson]

The pallet swap pallets don't change the swords to match! IT BURRRNS!!!

It may burn for now, but you'll be thankful for having some indication for which sword waifu is on the field, regardless of alt.

 

[SpecterFlower]

I'm not gonna stick around for the same reasons as before, but I'd like to give my thoughts on Pyra/Mythra since this is kinda the only place I can do so and I like talking about things.

The technical difficulties in implimenting Rex & Pyra/Mythra, while not something I originally considered, do make a lot of sense, especially considering even Morgana has to dip out when there are too many characters (doesn't explain how Burning Sword, Sacred Arrow, and Pair Up work, though I imagine it has something to do with how Final Smashes work). I still don't think solo Pyra and Mythra were a good choice though, as they can't properly represent their game by themselves, and as the game's only representatives, they really should. As much as it would sadden me for this to happen, I do think that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 would be better off without a character than with Rex or the Aegis by themselves.

That being said though, I do like Pyra and Mythra as characters, and they look super fun, so from here on out, I'll enjoy them for what they are.

Random thoughts:

• UUUUUUUUUUUGH!!!They ruined Counterattack. They somehow managed to make it sound like there are too many and too few instruments going on at the same time, and they got rid of the emotional bit in favor of looping way too soon so now it's repetitive.
  • And of course, the original isn't available alongside it.
  • I don't get it. Xenoblade Chronicles's music is so good, why are at least half of the remixes so garbo?
  • I hope Sakurai just worded it poorly and the two stages aren't getting their music separated for no reason.
• Why did they name drop Pyra & Mythra's spoiler form but then censor it later? If you don't want spoilers just don't put them in the game ya numnuts.
  • Doesn't bother me that much though. Knowing of her existence isn't something that would actively ruin a first timer's experience unlike how a certain seventh party member would. Yes I'm still miffed about that one.
• Those black pallet swaps tho...noice.
• The pallet swap pallets don't change the swords to match! IT BURRRNS!!!
• I wonder how much Pyra will see use competitively. Usually I'd expect her to not see use because slow = bad, but she's not that slow, and holy crap that damage.
  • I do know there won't be many Pyra mains though since Mythra has a way better recovery and recovery is good. My question is more "will everyone just main Mythra?".
• Holy crap, Photon Edge is now the most flashy normally accessible move by a mile.
• EDIT: Also, wasn't expecting Pyra to be the more powerful one since it's the inverse in the game both story wise and mechanically.

Xenoblade 1's medley was so horrible

and they decided to make a XC2 medley,

Xenoblade music is great but god are the remixs horrible

 

[BlondeLombax]

Does anyone mind tagging me when Pyra and Mythra drop?

A little over 2 1/2 hours from now, methinks.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Does anyone mind tagging me when Pyra and Mythra drop?

When a character gets released during a timezone difference sever enough to be the next day in Europe, they'd usually drop in about 2 hours from now

I know, right? People speculating about a character in the DLC speculation thread. Who'da thunk?

Comparing characters to Smash 4 Bayo based on footage that's 2 months old and no concrete stats isn't speculation, it's fearmongering

 

[SNEKeater]

Xenoblade 1's medley was so horrible

and they decided to make a XC2 medley,

Xenoblade music is great but god are the remixs horrible

Yeah I usually don't like Smash medleys. The one for Xeno 2 at least has the Tantal theme from what we could heard in the presentation.