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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
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Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
I have finished another, this time for Bandana Waddle Dee. I picked him next because I wanted to do a character that wouldn't be chock full of weird mechanics like the Portal Gun, Celestial Brush...literally everything about Rex & Pyra/Mythra, etc., and Bandana Waddle Dee is just about the simplest character in current speculatio-
...granting him free flight for about 2 seconds.
The parasol will block all attacks from the front.
...if you hold up on the thumbstick, you will keep Chumbrella active. It loses its hitbox just like with Parasol Shield, but it blocks all attacks from above...
...OK I may have injected a bit of weirdness into the character, but at least it doesn't affect the character's overall playstyle for the most part. As you might have guessed though, this moveset takes the route Super Smash Flash 2 did and combined the Beam, Spear, and Parasol abilities. I think it is a good direction for him, but it's also in no way the only valid one, so if you guys want, I might be persuaded to make a Spear only version. Anyway, here it is:

Bandana Waddle Dee is one of Kirby’s best friends, and a high ranking member of King Dedede’s army. He originally opposed Kirby in the Megaton Punch minigame, and as a joke mini-boss in Kirby Superstar Ultra. He became much more prominent in Kirby’s Return to Dreamland, joining King Dedede, Meta Knight, and Kirby in their quest to help Magolor, and he’s been a reliable ally to Kirby ever since that adventure.

In Super Smash Bros., he wields a modified version of the spear, which has a crystal ball within the spearhead, allowing it to open up and fire beams, and a scarf at the base of the spear that can unfurl into a parasol…It’s best not to question the physics involved there. As a general rule, his spear attacks have a long, but narrow reach, his beam attacks have a wide, but not as long reach, and his parasol attacks have protective properties, but aren’t all that useful offensively.

Bandana Waddle Dee can jump twice in midair (giving him 3 jumps total), and he uses his parasol to shield himself, so like Yoshi, he can’t be shield poked
Bandana Waddle Dee’s Neutral Special is called Beam Whip. He uses the spear’s beam function to make an overhead strike. This attack is a mult-hit move that can lead into combos depending on how close you are to the opponent when you hit. As you can imagine, this can make it committal, but the reward is quite good. If you hold the Special Move button for long enough, Bandana Waddle Dee will charge the attack, granting you access to the Wave Beam. Wave Beam is spherical projectile about as large as Bandana Waddle Dee himself, and while it’s pretty powerful, though not quite as powerful as other charged projectiles due to the quicker charge time. If Wave Beam is not ready, Bandana Waddle Dee will use Beam Whip instead. You cannot shield cancel the charge of this move.

Bandana Waddle Dee’s Side Special changes depending on whether or not you’re on the ground. On the ground, the move is called Waddle Spear Throw. As you can imagine, this is a simple spear throw attack. The spear travels in an arc, and doesn’t go too far before it hits the ground, but if you’re precise, you can hit opponents below the ledge. The real meat and potatoes of the move is the aerial version: Waddle Spear Barrage. There is more startup lag, and the spears thrown in this attack are weaker, but can be thrown rapid fire, and you slow your fall throughout the duration. This is Bandana Waddle Dee’s go to attack for pestering foes at a distance. It’s worth noting that due to the extra height, Waddle Spear Barrage will often miss up close opponents, and that Waddle Spear Throw and Waddle Spear Barrage do not seamlessly cancel into each other; Waddle Spear Throw has normal end lag and Waddle Spear Barrage has normal end and landing lag.

Both versions of the move have one more function: If you hold down the Special Attack button until Bandana Waddle Dee glows, the move becomes Waddle Triple Throw, which throws three spears at once. These spears will always have the same power as the grounded version’s spears, and can cover a ton of distance in front of Bandana Waddle Dee. If you use the attack up close, or on taller characters, multiple spears can hit, racking up the damage faster. Like with Wave Beam, the charge is relatively fast compared to other charge projectiles, but you can’t shield cancel it.

Bandana Waddle Dee’s Up Special is Waddle Copter. He will twirl the spear above his head, giving him a small height boost, and granting him free flight for about 2 seconds. This move can also be charged, but this time it doesn’t change the attack’s function. Instead, it changes the duration, allowing him to fly for up to 6 seconds. After the flight time has expired, the spear twirling slows way down and Bandana Waddle Dee slowly resumes his normal fall speed while he’s helpless.

Waddle Copter is an amazing move in terms of recovery, and it protects Bandana Waddle Dee from most attacks from above with an aggressive multi-hit hitbox. It isn’t without its weaknesses though. After the initial boost, Waddle Copter is painfully slow in all directions, which means opponents are able to set up on him, and if he’s not allowed to charge the move, he’s not going to go very far.

Bandana Waddle Dee’s Down Special is Parasol Twirl on the ground, and Parasol Dive in the air. Parasol Twirl is uh…well it exists. Bandana Waddle Dee activates his spear’s parasol mode, flips it upside down and spins it underneath him. This protects him from attacks made underneath him, which does actually have a use on higher platforms, and might see use in protecting him from Up Specials that can hit above the ledge during recovery, but you generally aren’t able to use it to retaliate against opponents, and the hitbox on the move is predictably useless.

Parasol Dive is a much better move. It’s similar to Parasol Twirl complete with protecting you from below (and a bit in front as well), but now it is a stall-then-fall move, allowing Bandana Waddle Dee to essentially escape for free (unless they wait and hit you in the back). The downside here is that it has a bit of startup, so you have to be careful about not spamming it, and it can’t always save you. Offensively, it’s pretty terrible, as it does very little damage and knockback. It’s just enough so that you generally can’t get punished for landing the move.
Bandana Waddle Dee’s Neutral Attack is called Spear Thrust, which is a simple thrust of the spear as the name implies. If this attack hits, you can repeatedly tap the attack button to combo into Multispear Thrust, a simple rapid jab that combos into a final spear thrust when it ends. To put it simply, this is a normal jab that goes into a rapid jab that has an ender.

His Forward Tilt is called Parasol Swing. Bandana Waddle Dee will swing his spear in parasol form in front of him, which flips the parasol inside out for a brief moment. This attack has more range than Spear Thrust, but it is slower, so using it is more committal. If you hold the attack button, Bandana Waddle Dee will continue to hold out his parasol in a defensive move called Parasol Shield. The parasol will block all attacks from the front. The move locks you in place (though you can turn around), so it’s pretty committal, and it has a decent amount of end lag so you likely won’t be able to punish opponents for hitting the shield, but you generally won’t be at a disadvantage when you block something.

His Up Tilt is an overhead swing using the beam function. This is a pretty good anti-air that can hit opponents on lower platforms like the ones on Battlefield. It’s also crazy disjointed, so you won’t have to worry about attacks from above when using the attack.

His Down Tilt is Ground Thrust, where he thrusts his spear into the ground in front of him and then lunges forward. This attack doesn’t hit very far off the ground, but it’s his most reliable combo starter, and it moves him forward during use.

Bandana Waddle Dee’s Dash Attack is a faceplant just like King Dedede. It isn’t nearly as slow or powerful as King Dedede’s, but it does make for a decent charging attack, and you can K.O. opponents with the sweetspot, which is right when his face collides with the ground.

Bandana Waddle Dee has four different Smash Attacks, which sounds like a series first, but Min Min technically beat him to it (or maybe not. Min Min is weird). His Forward Smash is a more powerful thrust of his spear. This attack has a sweetspot at the tip, much like Byleth’s Forward Smash, but you can’t angle it. If you like, you can cancel the move into his Back Smash Attack, Back Thrust. As the name implies, it’s a backward spear thrust. This attack is slightly slower, and slightly more powerful because of that, but it keeps the strong sweet spot and the much weaker sourspot of the Forward Smash. Unlike with the aforementioned Min Min though, the move can be used outside of the context of following up a Forward Smash, so you can use it raw if you feel you need the extra power and can land the hit.

His Up Smash is called Chumbrella. Bandana Waddle Dee will switch his spear to parasol mode, but this time, the parasol is huge, big enough to fit two Kirbys behind him, and one kirby in front of him underneath it. The attack doesn’t hit very high into the air nor does it have very high damage or knockback, but the horizontal range is quite large, and hits on both sides. There’s also a decent bit of end lag to the move, but if you hit opponents at high percents, they will still be in disadvantage when the attack ends.

One last thing about this attack is that if you hold up on the thumbstick, you will keep Chumbrella active. It loses its hitbox just like with Parasol Shield, but it blocks all attacks from above, and since Bandana Waddle Dee is one of the shortest characters in the game, that’s a lot of attacks. Most character’s Neutral Attacks and such will hit as normal, but things like overhead swings from tall characters will usually clank with the move. Bandana Waddle Dee can even walk around and jump with Chumbrella active (though you cannot jump in midair). Like with Parasol Shield though, Bandana Waddle Dee can’t often punish opponents for hitting the shield or even threaten them with other attacks, so the usefulness of the feature is questionable.

So with the craziness of Back Thrust and Chumbrella, I bet you’re expecting some crazy Down Smash with the Beam ability right? Well…It’s actually a standard spinning Down Smash with the beam attachment that hits on both sides. Sometimes simple is better though. The attack’s damage might be lower than the Forward and Back Smash Attacks, but it’s not too shabby either, and it’s consistent. It’s also faster than using the Forward and Back Smash Attacks in rapid succession, though this comes at the cost of K.O. power.
Bandana Waddle Dee’s Neutral Aerial is a spinning beam attack that hits on both sides. This is Bandana Waddle Dee’s main combo tool, as it combos into itself, and his Forward Aerial depending on how you hit with it. His Forward Aerial is called Beam Blast, and it’s a barrage of small projectiles aimed diagonally downward. They don’t travel very far, but they do cover a wide radius, and the attack stalls your downward momentum a bit. This is Bandana Waddle Dee’s go to space controlling move up close, though it is very weak to reflectors and can’t really keep any combos going.

His Back Aerial is a backward kick. It is decently powerful, but it isn’t quite as powerful as your typical Back Aerial, so its K.O. potential is not the greatest. His Up Aerial is a great K.O. tool however. It’s called Skyward Thrust, and does what the name implies. If you land the tip of the spear, the attack is one of Bandana Waddle Dee’s quickest K.O. moves, and if you don’t it has decent juggle utility.

Bandana Waddle Dee’s Down Aerial is Moon Drop. It’s a stall-then-fall attack where he thrusts his spear down and twirls around when as he falls. This attack acts like Corrin’s in that it will drag opponents down with him, and it’s even more powerful since Bandana Waddle Dee can come back from doing this if he has a jump and is allowed to recover using Waddle Copter. To balance this out, Bandana Waddle Dee cannot combo into this at all, and opponents will be sent slightly upwards at the end of the move even if it ends in the air. This doesn’t always mean they can come back, but it does make Moon Drop K.O.s much more committal.
Bandana Waddle Dee’s grab is what you’d expect from a character with nubs for limbs: short. He does get some use out of his throws though. His Forward Throw is called Capture Beam. He uses the beam function to pepper the opponent with beam projectiles, launching them diagonally upward. This is a projectile attack, so if you use this on an opponent with Bounce or a Franklin Badge on then congratulations. You played yourself.

His Back Throw is a suplex based off of the Backdrop ability like Kirby’s is. It’s also not particularly strong. His Up Throw is Circus Throw. Bandana Waddle Dee will spin the opponent on his spear in parasol mode, and bump them up. This is actually a combo throw, and combos into aerial attacks at low to mid percents. His Down Throw sees him slamming his opponents into the ground so hard they fly straight up. This is his strongest throw, K.O.ing at high percents.
Bandana Waddle Dee cheers as stone slabs are set up right in front of him. If this doesn’t hit, then the rocks immediately crumble to his great surprise, but if it does, he will continue to cheer and dance around as the rocks keep piling up, trapping any opponents caught inside. When enough of the stone slabs are stacked, Bandana Waddle Dee will jump on top and delivers a massive punch that cuts through all of them, and send the caught opponents flying. The Smash Ball version of this attack uses a very dynamic camera angle for the final punch.
Bandana Waddle Dee is a small character with relatively large hitboxes. His gameplan revolves around stage control, using Waddle Spear Barrage and Wave Beam to pester enemies from afar, and Beam Blast to pester them from up close. His disadvantage is also pretty decent between his two stall-then-fall options and his wide reaching recovery. He also has good defensive abilities with his two anti-aerial attacks, and his damage output makes it dangerous to approach him predictably.

His weaknesses lie in his light weight, and the fact that his recovery is pretty easily interrupted once you back him into a corner. That and while his damage can be fairly high, his setups for it are pretty committal, which can lead to the character struggling to find K.O.s, and racking up damage a slower than his opponents.

To me, he seems like he’d pretty easily fit into the category of characters that are highly annoying, but nowhere near unbalanced in any way.
This stage is uh…very orange. It’s an arena within the castle consisting of a main platform that’s raised up on both sides, creating walls in the center (most characters can jump onto these raised platforms with a single jump). The main platform goes all the way down, so there are walls on the side of the stage as well. There’s also a soft platform in the center that ties the layout together. The background has two large windows showing the land outside, one on each side of the stage, and a painting of King Dedede himself between them.

After a minute, and every two minutes after that, Mid-Bosses will spawn, and attack players. These Mid-Bosses are: Bonkers, Bugzzy, Twin Fire Lions, Mr. Frosty, Chef Kawasaki (the Assist Trophy cannot appear here), Bandana Waddle Dee (if Bandana Waddle Dee is not already in the current match), Kibble Blade, and King Doo.

  • Bonkers appears on the left or right of the main platform, and has the following attacks:
    • Throwing explosive coconuts that can be picked up as items, then stomping thrice, with one of the coconuts on the ground exploding each time he lands.
    • Spinning around with his hammer extended, then moving left and right, hitting opponents at the bottom of the stage.
    • Jumping out of the bottom of the stage, or from the one side of it to the other.
    • If an opponent is close, he may use Hammer Flip, uppercutting you with his flaming hammer.
    • Jumping to a nearby opponent, and attempting to slam his hammer down on you.
  • Buggzzy appears on the left or right of the main platform, and has the following attacks:
    • Lunging forward in an attempt to grab and suplex a player. If he misses, he will often hit a wall and stun himself, but if he reaches a ledge, he will turn around.
    • Pooping out ladybugs? The ladybugs will fly up and down in the direction Bugzzy is facing when he makes them.
    • Flying across the stage, then attempting to slam down on an opponent.
    • Flying upward, then charging in the direction of a random player to try and grab them.
  • Twin Fire Lions will appear on both sides of the main platform. Their patterns are more simplistic, which are:
    • Charging across the stage as a blazing fireball.
    • Jumping next to a nearby opponent and trying to swipe at them.
    • Jumping across the stage, without sticking the landing.
  • Mr. Frosty appears on the left or right of the main platform, and has the following attacks:
    • Bellyflopping across the stage.
    • Charging across the stage until he trips.
    • Creating an ice block that he will slide across the ground.
  • Chef Kawasaki will appear on the top platform. His attacks are as follows:
    • Jumping across the stage.
    • Throwing plates.
    • Jumping up and spinning across the stage while plates fly everywhere.
    • Catching opponents with his soup ladle and cooking them.
  • Bandana Waddle Dee can appear anywhere on the stage, and his attacks are as follows:
    • Walking and Jumping around.
    • That’s it.
    • He also has very little health, and is often O.H.K.O.’ed.
  • Kibble Blade will appear on the bottom of the main platform, and he’s the only boss that doesn’t leave. His attacks are as follows:
    • Throwing his blade at the nearest opponent that boomerangs behind him if it doesn’t hit a wall first.
    • Charging across the stage until he hits the wall.
    • Jumping up and throwing his blade to the ground.
  • King Doo will appear on the platform in the center. His attacks are as follows:
    • An attack from top to bottom with the beam whip.
    • A large Wave Beam.
    • A jump attack with the beam whip.
    • Walking around and jumping to other platforms.
    • Charging across the stage.
The Mid-Bosses have health bars like in the Kirby series, and will be launched out of the stage when you defeat them.

  • Bandana Waddle Dee: A spherical character with an orange body, a cream colored face, and yellow feet. He wears a blue bandana on his head, and wields a spear with a scarf just under the head that matches his feet.
  • Yellow: Bandana Waddle Dee’s body is now yellow, and his bandana is orange. This is his player 2 color from Kirby Star Allies.
  • Blue: Bandana Waddle Dee’s body is now Blue, his bandana is a lighter blue, his feet are purple, and his spear scarf changes to match. This is his player 3 color from Kirby Star Allies.
  • Green: Bandana Waddle Dee’s body is now a light green, his bandana is more of a dark green, and his feet and spear scarf become a very light green. This is his player 4 color from Kirby Star Allies.
  • Parallel Dee: Bandana Waddle Dee’s Body is a dark grey, almost black, and his face becomes a navy color. His bandana is now grey, his feet and spear scarf are purple, and his eyes are a flat yellow (meaning they no longer have detail; they’re like Meta Knight’s). This is based off of the Parallel bosses from Kirby Star Allies.
  • Corrupted Dee: Bandana Waddle Dee’s body is more redish, and instead of a cream colored face, he has a giant eyeball. He also has two strands of hair coming off of his head instead of the bandana, and his feet and spear scarf are now cream colored. This is based off of the corrupted version of the friendly Waddle Dee from Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards, which is straight up a Waddle Doo which…has some unsettling implications about Waddle Doos.
  • Sailor Dee: Bandana Waddle Dee wears a sailor hat, and his spear scarf is now blue. This is based off of Sailor Dee from the Meta Knight’s Revenge minigame in Kirby Superstar Ultra.
  • Spear Dee: Kirby wears a…crown? on his head, and his spear scarf is now red. The crown thingy consists of a red band, and a yellow jewel or armour plating. This is based off of Spear Kirby’s hat.
  • Wolf (Lylat Cruise)
  • R.O.B. (Halberd)
  • Snake (Shadow Moses Island)
  • Pit (Skyworld)
  • Isabelle (Smashville)
  • Squirtle, Ivysaur, & Charizard (Kalos Pokémon League)
  • Bonus
  • Galleom
The theme here mirrors King Dedede. Instead of fighting kings, Bandana Waddle Dee battles those who work under a higher power; thus, minions. It goes in order of relative rank, or at least it tries to. It sucks that Piranha Plant is ineligible because it would be perfect here but, ah well.
The theme here is going to be good Kirby music from off the top of my head because the realistic musical theme comes from a game I’m not privy to. I’m sure other Kirby fans could make an even better tracklist, but this is what I could come up with:
  • Clash at Castle Dedede
    • What King Dedede stage would be complete without a Castle Dedede theme?
  • King D-Mind Battle
    • Gotta throw in a King Dedede theme remix somehow. Lol
    • This one’s a huge bop, though…that reminds me: How do we not have any version of the Masked Dedede theme in the game?
  • Boss (Kirby’s Return to Dreamland)
    • Yeah, boss themes are going to be a trend here. This one’s a bop from my first Kirby game: Kirby Returns to Dreamland.
  • Attack!
    • The boss theme from Kirby Triple Deluxe. This one’s a bop too.
  • Haltmann Works Elite Management(Remix)
    • Not as big of a bop, but it’s still good. This one’s from Kirby Planet Robobot.
  • Dirty & Beauty
    • The first battle theme of Queen Sectonia. They may do something to this one due to the slow start. Hopefully they don’t ruin it by doing that though.
  • Vs. The Three Mage Sisters
    • I don’t really have an opinion on this one, but I think it will work for the purposes of Super Smash Bros.
  • Vs. Hyness (Unhooded)
    • Could be just this or a medley of his themes.
  • Nightmare Battle Theme(Remix)
    • I’m kinda surprised Nighmare’s theme isn’t here already either, though it could be due to the short length.
  • Dark Matter Battle Medley (Remix)
    • A medley that combines the Dark Matter, Zero, 02, and Dark Nebula themes.
    • No links because such a song doesn’t really exist officially as far as I know.
  • Mind in a PROGRAM Medley
    • Could use the existing medley for Kirby Star Allies, but it could also be a new one just for Super Smash Bros.
  • True Destroyer of Worlds/Astral Birth(Remix)
    • Remix because there’s no way they’d allow for a 12 minute track, but something like this should be included.
I’m honestly surprised I could find this many given how extensive Kirby Spirits are. The theme here is once again Kirby enemies, and just like with the music, this would likely be themed on the next game if Bandana Waddle Dee were to actually get in.
  • Blade Knight (Novice)
    • Spirit Battle: You several Young Links on Green Greens that spam Up Special. The Adventure Begins! is the music for this battle.
    • Effect: Grants Weapon Attack Up.
  • Twin Fire Lions (Novice)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle two Incineroars on Castle Dedede that spam Up Special. The Mid-Boss spawning is locked to Twin Fire Lions, and Meta Knight’s Revenge is the music for this battle.
    • Effect: Grants Dash Attack Up.
  • Kibble Blade (Novice)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle a grey Kirby that spams Up Special on Castle Dedede. The Mid-Boss spawn is locked to Kibble Blade, and Boss Theme Medley is the music for this battle.
    • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Attack Type, has 2 slots, and grants Up Special Up.
  • King Doo (Novice)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle a yellow Bandana Waddle Dee that Spams Neutral Special on Castle Dedede. The Mid-Boss spawn is locked to King Doo, and Boss (Kirby’s Return to Dreamland) is the music for this battle.
    • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Attack Type, has 2 slots, and grants Neutral Special Up.
  • Taranza (Advanced)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle a purple King Dedede that gains a critical power boost on Unova Pokémon League. Dirty and Beauty is the music for this battle.
    • Effect: Grants Critical-Health Attack Up.
  • President Haltmann (Advanced)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle Ludwig with slow super armour on Wily Castle. Haltmann Elite Works Management is the music for this battle.
    • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Neutral Type, and has 3 slots.
  • Hyness (Advanced)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle four Robins on Spear Pillar; one male, the other three female. Defeat the main fighter to win. Vs. Hyness (Unhooded) is the music for this battle.
    • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Shield Type, and has 3 slots.
  • Drawcia (Advanced)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle a purple Inkling on Fountain of Dreams. Random Assist Trophies will appear during the battle, and Fatal Blooms in Moonlight is the music for this battle.
    • Effect: Grants Magic Attack Up.
  • Claycia (Ace)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle a purple Rosalina & Luma on Spear Pillar, and Spiny Shells will periodically rain down. Dark Matter Theme medley is the music for this battle.
    • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Grab Type, and has 3 slots.
  • Stardream (Ace)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle a giant R.O.B. on Fountain of Dreams that spams Neutral Special. Mind in a PROGRAM Medley is the music for this battle.
    • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Shield Type, has 3 slots, and grants Shield Durability Up.
  • Morpho Knight (Ace)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle a red Meta Knight with upped stats on Final Destination. Vs. The Three Mage Sisters is the music for this fight.
    • Effect: Primary Spirit. Is Attack Type, has 3 slots, and grants Weapon Attack Up.
  • Void Termina (Legend)
    • Spirit Battle: You battle Kirby and a Giant Ganondorf on Final Destination. Defeat Kirby to win. True Destroyer of World/Astral Birth is the music for this fight.
    • Effect: Grants Persistent Black Hole, which starts you off with a Black Hole, and spawns a Black Hole near you about 30 seconds after you use it.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
12,332
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
The game's meta? Oh, he'll also cut that one down, and it'll be glorious :yeahboi:
is top tier in PlayStation All Stars: Battle Royale
Yup, I think that checks out.

Let me peer into my crystal ball.

Yes.. Yes... AHHAAHAHHA.

The next character... has a vowel in their name!
You just jinxed it. The next character is going to be, N, L, Q, or G.
 

Þe 1 → Way

Smash Champion
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Dec 12, 2020
Messages
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Wouldn’t You Like To Know?
I never said that it had to be, you're spinning this on me. Yes, there are many factors that go into the inclusion of a character. But the way you've presented this puts far too much weight on the idea of Sephiroth being a vessel for that additional FF7 content rather than the irrefutable significance of his character.

Like, if we already had more ample FF7 content, Sephiroth may have still made it in on those other merits. Because he's Sephiroth. 99% of people buying Sephiroth are doing it because they want the massively iconic and popular character, Sephiroth.

You can get tangled up in this web of representation and whatnot but Smash becomes a whole lot simpler when you recognize that it's the character that precedes everything. Nearly every weird confusing decision that has ever been made and people try and make excuses for can be summarized with "they just thought adding this character would be neat", it's the community that overcomplicates things as proper representation or quota fulfillment.
But you did say it was exclusively because of Sephiroth.
His case is one entirely driven by the weight of the character themselves.
I stand by what I said, fans wanted more FF7 content. Sephiroth is a big character that Nintendo and Sakurai would want. Square wanted to market him. It literally just lines up well. Sephiroth was almost definitely in Nintendos site line for a CP, the fan demand just gave them more of a reason to include him.
 

Louie G.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
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Rhythm Heaven
But you did say it was exclusively because of Sephiroth.
Okay, so if Sephiroth didn't exist we would have gotten Tifa or Barret instead? I don't think it's a controversial statement to say "character trumps all", Sephiroth being a particularly beloved character, and still acknowledge that there are likely other factors that made him an appealing choice.

But, you know, if Sephiroth wasn't... Sephiroth, he wouldn't have made it in. This isn't a bold or incredible statement. There's a reason this reveal blew people away, and it's not because "we finally got some more FF music". I mean, it's certainly nice, but you can't convince me this was a deciding factor.

Hell, when Sephiroth was revealed a lot of people thought he was only coming with one track to begin with - and they were still hyped.
 
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Þe 1 → Way

Smash Champion
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Dec 12, 2020
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Wouldn’t You Like To Know?
Okay, so if Sephiroth didn't exist we would have gotten Tifa or Barret instead? I don't think it's a controversial statement to say "character trumps all", Sephiroth being a particularly beloved character, and still acknowledge that there are likely other factors that made him an appealing choice.

But, you know, if Sephiroth wasn't... Sephiroth, he wouldn't have made it in. This isn't a bold or incredible statement. There's a reason this reveal blew people away, and it's not because "we finally got some more FF music".

Hell, when Sephiroth was revealed a lot of people thought he was only coming with one track to begin with - and they were still hyped.
Now your spinning this on me. I never said Sephiroth wasn’t a big part of the pack, I said he wasn’t the only part. Theres a big difference. You keep acting like I’m saying hes not big, I never said that.

You didn’t say any other factors led to his inclusion. You said “His case is one entirely driven by the weight of the character themselves”
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,697
I'm loving all this Bill & Lance talk.

Prime the pump now, for when I have to switch you guys over once Hayabusa is in!

A reboot in 2017, a spin off in 2018 with bombergirl that’s planned to release for Windows some time this year actually, a new bomberman game that was casually confirmed in active development, Bomberman R Online came out 2020, rumors of an Anniversary collection, and of course the almighty pachinko.
Still Bomberman is dead

The funny thing is, when you spouted this in the Crash thread, you got told that you were blatantly wrong.
Of course he did. It's the Crash thread. They aren't about to acknowledge anything that goes against Crash's chances.

Basically this. Although a Pyramid Head assist would be reasonably interesting.
Yes. Pyramid Head AT is the best representation Silent Hill should get.
 

SpectreJordan

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I don't agree with Papa here. I'm pretty sure we got a lightweight event soon before Sephiroth came out and he even pointed out other events that could have been saved for future characters.

So the dream is still alive!


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Spirit events hint at the next character theory, let’s go!:4pacman:
A Trails protagonist. It's arguably more popular than Ys, even if it's younger and has less influence on the RPG genre, but Adol seems to be the only Falcom candidate mentioned.

Granted, I may have had something to do with that, seeing how heavily I pushed him after the Falcom leak got more attention with those Trails ports. If anyone's miffed at the lack of Trails discussion, I'll take the blame.
I’m not too familiar with Falcom but it seems like a Terry vs Kyo situation. Kyo/Estelle might be the star of the more popular series, but Terry/Adol is a classic & iconic to the company as a whole.
 
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SharkLord

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Spirit events hint at the next character theory, let’s go!:4pacman:

I’m not too familiar with Falcom but it seems like a Terry vs Kyo situation. Kyo/Estelle might be the star of the more popular series, but Terry/Adol is a classic & iconic to the company as a whole.
Yeah, I think that's pretty close to how it goes, minus the whole "Popular series absorbs everything else" thing that happened with KoF. Trails has more popularity, but Ys is older and has more influence on it's respective genre. Ys is arguably in a better spot than Fatal Fury on it's own, as it's still getting releases and was one of the codifiers of the ARPG genre, rather than just advancing it. On the other hand, Adol isn't the full-on mascot of Falcom like Terry is, so it all evens out.
 

Pillow

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Yes. Pyramid Head AT is the best representation Silent Hill should get.
Heather could be a really cool character if Sakurai gets really creative with it.

I’m not too familiar with Falcom but it seems like a Terry vs Kyo situation. Kyo/Estelle might be the star of the more popular series, but Terry/Adol is a classic & iconic to the company as a whole.
To be fair, Terry is also prominent in KOF as well which I don't think is the case for Adol. I think there's a stronger argument to made for including Estelle over Adol, than there is for including Kyo over Terry. (More popular series, more unique aesthetic relative to Smash, Adol being less of a face to Falcom than Terry is to SNK)
 

7NATOR

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What Moveset would Pyramid Head have anyway?

To My Knowledge, He Walks very Slow and swings his Big Sword around. I Imagine he'd be Heavy Swordsman with Super Armor, but I don't know if he has many moves
 

Þe 1 → Way

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Wouldn’t You Like To Know?
What Moveset would Pyramid Head have anyway?

To My Knowledge, He Walks very Slow and swings his Big Sword around. I Imagine he'd be Heavy Swordsman with Super Armor, but I don't know if he has many moves
His tongue is a tentacle and he also has a spear. Combine that with his new made ranged wave attack and stage controlling trails, he could have a fun moveset.
 

h2ogre

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Thoughts on 1 Company Rep per Fighter Pass Theory

So, I am curios to know what anyones stance is on the theory that a company can only get one fighter per pass. Really try and convince me why or why not. Below are all of the characters with the companies they are from for those who are unaware.

Fighter Pass 1

Joker - Sega
Hero - Square Enix
Banjo - Microsoft
Terry - SNK
Byleth - Intelligent Systems

Fighter Pass 2
Min Min - Nintendo
Steve and Alex - Microsoft
Sephiroth- Square Enix
 

Rie Sonomura

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Thoughts on 1 Company Rep per Fighter Pass Theory

So, I am curios to know what anyones stance is on the theory that a company can only get one fighter per pass. Really try and convince me why or why not. Below are all of the characters with the companies they are from for those who are unaware.

Fighter Pass 1
Joker - Sega
Hero - Square Enix
Banjo - Microsoft
Terry - SNK
Byleth - Intelligent Systems

Fighter Pass 2
Min Min - Nintendo
Steve and Alex - Microsoft
Sephiroth- Square Enix
We could get Arle as another Sega rep. Not feeling another SNK or IS rep tho
 

SharkLord

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Yeah, I think that's pretty close to how it goes, minus the whole "Popular series absorbs everything else" thing that happened with KoF. Trails has more popularity, but Ys is older and has more influence on it's respective genre. Ys is arguably in a better spot than Fatal Fury on it's own, as it's still getting releases and was one of the codifiers of the ARPG genre, rather than just advancing it. On the other hand, Adol isn't the full-on mascot of Falcom like Terry is, so it all evens out.
Adding onto the topic of Falcom in Smash, I'm once again bringing up the Kondo interview
[Anime Expo 2019] An Interview with Toshihiro Kondo – Endless History (esterior.net)
1612475611218.png

Basically, the guy in charge of the company would choose Adol first, by virtue of working on Ys for a while, but he doesn't know how he'd work (Personally, I think it has to do with the fact that he replaces his gear between basically every game). As such, he'd go for Rean instead, since he'd fit in well with his sword. Yeah that's gonna go over well

If we have an ARMS situation and Nintendo just decides "Hey Sakurai, add someone from Falcom," I wonder how that would turn out. Maybe he'll just go along with Kondo and choose Rean. Then again, he might also take the comment about Adol as a challenge and figure something out with him. Or maybe he'll just take a third option and go "Why not Estelle?"
 

SharkLord

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Lloyd looks more like an Assist Trophy than he does a fighter
You mean a Mii Costume? I don't think we're getting any ATs as DLC. Either way, he'd probably be one of those "fighter-lite" ATs like Alucard and Zero, and I'm not really a fan of that. I'd much prefer the ones that act in ways a fighter wouldn't, like Phosphora, Tiki, and Thwomp.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Those Kosmos rumors died pretty quick, wonder how they started
There is still the one that says KOS-MOS, Reimu and Crash. It also predicted Sephiroth and said no mii costumes from 4 would become playable in DLC. this so far holds up with Heihachi, Gil and Geno returning
 

7NATOR

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Thoughts on 1 Company Rep per Fighter Pass Theory

So, I am curios to know what anyones stance is on the theory that a company can only get one fighter per pass. Really try and convince me why or why not. Below are all of the characters with the companies they are from for those who are unaware.

Fighter Pass 1
Joker - Sega
Hero - Square Enix
Banjo - Microsoft
Terry - SNK
Byleth - Intelligent Systems

Fighter Pass 2
Min Min - Nintendo
Steve and Alex - Microsoft
Sephiroth- Square Enix
I think it's likely Nintendo doesn't want to add More than 1 character from a Company per Pass. It helps to have characters in Future reserves for future content, whether more DLC or Another Smash game

But technically it's not impossible, and Nintendo nor Sakurai ever deconfirmed the idea of More than 1 character per company in One pass.
 

h2ogre

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if Ryu hayabusa got chosen for smash, would they change it to just Hayabusa because of a Ryu already in the game
 

Rie Sonomura

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if Ryu hayabusa got chosen for smash, would they change it to just Hayabusa because of a Ryu already in the game
Hot take: yes, actually. With the two Roy’s, ones an alt and the other is a fully playable character with their own slot. Here, both have their own slot and aren’t alts.
 

SharkLord

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There is still the one that says KOS-MOS, Reimu and Crash. It also predicted Sephiroth and said no mii costumes from 4 would become playable in DLC. this so far holds up with Heihachi, Gil and Geno returning
To be fair, we've been calling the Mii Costume thing since Gil, and I'm sure there are others who do the same. It's not a really good way to back up a rumor's credibility.

Aside from that, it seems like there's been a surprising amount of people calling Sephiroth in advance. There's the 5chan rumor that we're talking about, the Rayman/Crash/Doomguy rumor (I think), the negotiations rumor (Or the Tales of Chun-Li, if you insist on calling it that), and I believe StormYorha somehow managed to predict both Steve and Sephiroth as well-And they're not even an insider. I'm beginning to think Sephiroth might have had a silent following that we never noticed.

But yeah, I'm not putting too much stock into the Crash/KOS-MOS/Reimu rumor just because it called Sephiroth and a situation with Miis that half of everyone have been calling for months. Anyone can make a fake leak when they have that cover of anonymity.
 

RileyXY1

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To be fair, we've been calling the Mii Costume thing since Gil, and I'm sure there are others who do the same. It's not a really good way to back up a rumor's credibility.

Aside from that, it seems like there's been a surprising amount of people calling Sephiroth in advance. There's the 5chan rumor that we're talking about, the Rayman/Crash/Doomguy rumor (I think), the negotiations rumor (Or the Tales of Chun-Li, if you insist on calling it that), and I believe StormYorha somehow managed to predict both Steve and Sephiroth as well-And they're not even an insider. I'm beginning to think Sephiroth might have had a silent following that we never noticed.

But yeah, I'm not putting too much stock into the Crash/KOS-MOS/Reimu rumor just because it called Sephiroth and a situation with Miis that half of everyone have been calling for months. Anyone can make a fake leak when they have that cover of anonymity.
Yeah, especially considering that I don't really think that KOS-MOS is that likely.
 

7NATOR

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Remember that Sephiroth was on the Seven Squares

The 5Chan Tales of Chun post, as well as that one 4Chan post with like 40 characters came after that whole thing with the Seven Squares leak. I think that's important to take into account
 
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