Cutie Gwen
Lovely warrior
Now now, let's not generalize too much.
After all some people irrationally hate Incineroar despite being a superheavy
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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II
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After all some people irrationally hate Incineroar despite being a superheavy
Firox
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LOL I love getting lectured about how to properly debate when you apparently can't even read. I never said that "BotW didn't shake up the formula". It certainly did, just not in a way that I would consider to be better and I gave lots of evidence for my reasoning. That is how you debate, FYI. You make an assertion, then present evidence. Not put words in people's mouths and then condescend about your misconception. If anyone is moving goalposts, it's you.
GoodGrief741
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I'm more of a Midna guy myself, but if the community needs to join forces and back one candidate, I think it should be Skull Kid. He's the one that came the closest to being one of the most demanded newcomers, I'd say.Honestly, here is the issue with the community and asking for Zelda reps.
We aren't unified enough.
Think about it. Let's look at every Zelda character added through the series and the reasons for the inclusions.
- Added as the main character of the Legend of Zelda (Bit of a required inclusion)
Well, notice any patterns? None of the Zelda characters primarily got in through popularity. We got several popular characters but they usually had either Sakurai wanting to experiment or being a good candidate for a last minute clone to thank for their inclusion.
Unfortunately, it seems that even though lost of good characters exist like Skull Kid, Midna and Impa (there are more, but you get the point), Nintendo and/or Sakurai don't really prioritize Zelda characters. It seems to be the sad truth. Maybe they think five or six characters are enough. Maybe they think Zelda should be expanded in other content (like the large amount of stages and items). Adding more Zelda characters into Smash just doesn't seem to be a priority for them.
So well, are we just destined to just never get a new Zelda character? Well no, there are ways to motivate Sakurai and Nintendo into picking Zelda characters.
We gotta do it through raw popularity. We gotta turn a Zelda character into the new K.Rool/Ridley. We gotta make them so popular that Nintendo / Sakurai will see adding them as a benefitial move. Alright, doesn't sound too hard, but there's a problem.
Who do you rally behind?
In the above examples, Ridley was the clear frontrunner among Metroid newcomers and K.Rool only had Dixie Kong to compete with (and won). When you look at Zelda characters you get... Skull Kid, Midna, Ghirahim, Impa and several other characters getting a decent amount of requests but overall its just a large group of somewhat popular characters.
If the fanbase were to choose one or two as a frontrunner and push, PUSH, PUSH them into the mainstream Smash spotlight, I think we may have a chance.
Everyone seems to want a Zelda newcomer, but its always been an issue of who. So, I have to ask.
Who should be our frontrunners?
And how do you rationalize Dante, Sora, Phoenix, Isaac, Shantae, KOS-MOS and Master Chief all concurrently having had popularity despite being created within a year of each other? Or Crash, Geno, Dixie, Rayman and Bandana Dee, who were also all created within a year of each other? By your logic there's some metaphysical turnstile that prohibits an era from having more than one popular request at a time, let alone a single year, presumably.
For all the evidence this is you could say that Simon's inclusion kickstarted Dante's popularity, who very suspiciously only got popular after Simon was already in. They're unrelated. Hayabusa has gained popularity thanks to a myriad of fake leaks, the continuing relationship between Nintendo and KT, and the dwindling pool of active contenders.
Al-kīmiyā'
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Does he?
Cutie Gwen
Lovely warrior
So what you're saying is that this quote
About the first game in a franchise to use a different control scheme and shake up the formula in decades doesn't count as you saying it doesn't shake it up while the rest of that post acted like it barely changed anything? And when corrected you act like it doesn't actually matter because you didn't like it? Ok then. That says all I need to know
Idon
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With the way the Contra series is going right now, I think Nintendo would probably play it safe and pick someone who's safer like Raiden from MGS2/MGRR or Alucard from C:SotN.
yeesh
Anyway, while they're both NES children, I think KT's got a few more talking points along with Ryu.
-KT has a close connection with Nintendo, outright developing several of their games,
-The action game series is still pretty popular (and it's got a rumored rerelease)
-Ryu Hayabusa makes plenty of crossovers within his own company in Dead or Alive, Warriors spinoffs, and NioH (his ancestors but that's splitting hairs)
the Junkyard Dog mk3, a casing that goes over it and makes it way bigger, it has a blade only on the back end of it,
and currently the Outrate Mk2 which is even bigger than the previous sword, which we dunno much about, but it's clearly a blade, and it's probably associated with the fireseal somehow,
yeesh
Anyway, while they're both NES children, I think KT's got a few more talking points along with Ryu.
-KT has a close connection with Nintendo, outright developing several of their games,
-The action game series is still pretty popular (and it's got a rumored rerelease)
-Ryu Hayabusa makes plenty of crossovers within his own company in Dead or Alive, Warriors spinoffs, and NioH (his ancestors but that's splitting hairs)
Yeah, he's got the Fireseal in his classic series, a wide rectangular blade wielded backhanded,
the Junkyard Dog mk3, a casing that goes over it and makes it way bigger, it has a blade only on the back end of it,
and currently the Outrate Mk2 which is even bigger than the previous sword, which we dunno much about, but it's clearly a blade, and it's probably associated with the fireseal somehow,
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SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
Honestly, it's kinda hard to tell if it's sharp or not.
kirbsmash
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Eh, Smash fans will think it.
Cutie Gwen
Lovely warrior
Nah fam clearly this means the Contra rep will have an overheat mechanic meaning they can't shoot the gun too much, Rogue Corps is gonna be the face of the franchise from here on out!
In all seriousness I hate that people said the new Battletoads was the worst looking game that E3 when Rogue Corps had the audacity to exist
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
Rash certainly looks better in the reboot than he does in Killer Instinct anyway.
The only issue I have with it is that it doesn't really seem like a fitting artstyle for the series.
Cutie Gwen
Lovely warrior
I'm fine with either artstyle but KI makes him look like the Micheal Bay TMNT characters which is fitting for a TMNT parody/knockoff. The reboot even uses the newest TMNT Nick cartoon's aesthetic for the same reason
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
Ah so it was intentional. That's actually pretty funny then.
Well I can respect that decision at least, but I think the game would have benefited from doing its own thing with the artstyle. Something just seems off about the end result.
Miles of SmashWiki
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We should've gotten a Battletoads Mii Brawler costume when Banjo came out, send post.
DarthEnderX
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They aren't NES-era? The ritual only applies to NES-era.
We have a society of NES cultists. And it's understood that only by focusing our lifeforce on one character can we generate results. We lent Mega Man our energy. Then Simon. Now Hayabusa.
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Cosmic77
Smash Hero
BotW and AoC made me appreciate the various other species and races outside Hylians and Sheikah, so I'll probably continue to be a voice for characters like the Champions long after the BotW series.
Doubt they'll ever pick up popularity in the Smash fanbase though. If AoC couldn't get them more support, then I'm not sure there's much else that can be done. Still, Nintendo and Aounuma seem to value them, so that's got to count towards something.
Doubt they'll ever pick up popularity in the Smash fanbase though. If AoC couldn't get them more support, then I'm not sure there's much else that can be done. Still, Nintendo and Aounuma seem to value them, so that's got to count towards something.
Missed this earlier. I think we're done here.
Rest In Peace Impa, dammit man.
DarthEnderX
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Yep. You wasted a ton of time mansplaining to someone making a facetious argument.
Is it though?
"We intentionally made it bad!" is only funny until you realize you're still stuck with the bad thing.
Ask SFxTK players how much they enjoyed BBA Mega Man...
Maybe she'll still be a Sheik Echo!
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When the opportunity arises again, Skull Kid should hopefully be the frontrunner Zelda character once again. He certainly made a splash in speculation prerelease. Maybe he can again. Dibs on the support thread though since it will be a new game when the time comes
CyberHyperPhoenix
"Download Complete."
AoC Impa is cute so she should be the #1 frontrunnerHonestly, here is the issue with the community and asking for Zelda reps.
We aren't unified enough.
Think about it. Let's look at every Zelda character added through the series and the reasons for the inclusions.
Well, notice any patterns? None of the Zelda characters primarily got in through popularity. We got several popular characters but they usually had either Sakurai wanting to experiment or being a good candidate for a last minute clone to thank for their inclusion.
Unfortunately, it seems that even though lost of good characters exist like Skull Kid, Midna and Impa (there are more, but you get the point), Nintendo and/or Sakurai don't really prioritize Zelda characters. It seems to be the sad truth. Maybe they think five or six characters are enough. Maybe they think Zelda should be expanded in other content (like the large amount of stages and items). Adding more Zelda characters into Smash just doesn't seem to be a priority for them.
So well, are we just destined to just never get a new Zelda character? Well no, there are ways to motivate Sakurai and Nintendo into picking Zelda characters.
We gotta do it through raw popularity. We gotta turn a Zelda character into the new K.Rool/Ridley. We gotta make them so popular that Nintendo / Sakurai will see adding them as a benefitial move. Alright, doesn't sound too hard, but there's a problem.
Who do you rally behind?
In the above examples, Ridley was the clear frontrunner among Metroid newcomers and K.Rool only had Dixie Kong to compete with (and won). When you look at Zelda characters you get... Skull Kid, Midna, Ghirahim, Impa and several other characters getting a decent amount of requests but overall its just a large group of somewhat popular characters.
If the fanbase were to choose one or two as a frontrunner and push, PUSH, PUSH them into the mainstream Smash spotlight, I think we may have a chance.
Everyone seems to want a Zelda newcomer, but its always been an issue of who. So, I have to ask.
Who should be our frontrunners?
Idon
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You'd feel like a clown supporting any Zelda rep in any era. They're not going to get new characters ever.
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3BitSaurus
Smash Master
It's particularly bizarre when you remember that nearly half of the Mario roster is composed of supporting characters who got the bulk of their popularity via spinoffs (
) and a generic mook.Name is fake because it sounds normal - a phrase that would make sense in a regular context. It needs to make less sense to stand up to Nomura's standards.
Hot take: Zelda is Nintendo's third biggest series, not some obscure one-off game. Fans shouldn't have to scream into the void for years just to get one new rep. If we haven't got one (especially considering the aforementioned Mario roster selection), there's something wrong with the selection process, not with the fans.Honestly, here is the issue with the community and asking for Zelda reps.
We aren't unified enough.
Think about it. Let's look at every Zelda character added through the series and the reasons for the inclusions.
Well, notice any patterns? None of the Zelda characters primarily got in through popularity. We got several popular characters but they usually had either Sakurai wanting to experiment or being a good candidate for a last minute clone to thank for their inclusion.
Unfortunately, it seems that even though lost of good characters exist like Skull Kid, Midna and Impa (there are more, but you get the point), Nintendo and/or Sakurai don't really prioritize Zelda characters. It seems to be the sad truth. Maybe they think five or six characters are enough. Maybe they think Zelda should be expanded in other content (like the large amount of stages and items). Adding more Zelda characters into Smash just doesn't seem to be a priority for them.
So well, are we just destined to just never get a new Zelda character? Well no, there are ways to motivate Sakurai and Nintendo into picking Zelda characters.
We gotta do it through raw popularity. We gotta turn a Zelda character into the new K.Rool/Ridley. We gotta make them so popular that Nintendo / Sakurai will see adding them as a benefitial move. Alright, doesn't sound too hard, but there's a problem.
Who do you rally behind?
In the above examples, Ridley was the clear frontrunner among Metroid newcomers and K.Rool only had Dixie Kong to compete with (and won). When you look at Zelda characters you get... Skull Kid, Midna, Ghirahim, Impa and several other characters getting a decent amount of requests but overall its just a large group of somewhat popular characters.
If the fanbase were to choose one or two as a frontrunner and push, PUSH, PUSH them into the mainstream Smash spotlight, I think we may have a chance.
Everyone seems to want a Zelda newcomer, but its always been an issue of who. So, I have to ask.
Who should be our frontrunners?
Speed Weed
Smash Master
THIS IS HOW OLIVER WINS
Cutie Gwen
Lovely warrior
I'm sorry, this must be a mistake, clearly, the shill pick is Olivier Lenheim from the Trails series
talking about a PoR shillpick is funny because PoR might be one of the worst selling games to get a Smash fighter, and RD did even worse. Smash still featured both designs and prioritized it over games like FE7 and 8 that actually sold over a million. in a game full of video game all-stars Ike is benchwarmer supreme. even Dark Pit has better numbers.
just goes to show the importance of timing (ie it's everything) and the unimportance of sales in the very specific eras surrounding when Smash games are made
just goes to show the importance of timing (ie it's everything) and the unimportance of sales in the very specific eras surrounding when Smash games are made
Dinoman96
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I just think the issue with Zelda is really more evoctative of the fact Sakurai and Nintendo aren't very interested in the majority of secondary/teritary characters as unique newcomers to begin with.
Like these are the only non-clone, non-protagonist (at least, at the time of their Smash inclusion) that have been made playable:
Going by the above, they seem to mostly be highly important and reoccuring villains or female deuteragonists. The most minor character of the bunch is probably like, Piranha Plant, but that was more or less included as a gag character, and Sakurai justifies it by saying that it's more recognizable than main characters of lesser series.
The other ones like Ganondorf, Wolf, Falco, Dark Pit, etc are mostly clonish characters put in later in development, under the virtue that they wouldn't eat up as much development time as a full blown newcomer. The big reason someone like Wolf got into Brawl while Krystal didn't was because the former, in Sakurai's words, could at least be around 30% cloned off of Fox lol.
Like these are the only non-clone, non-protagonist (at least, at the time of their Smash inclusion) that have been made playable:
Going by the above, they seem to mostly be highly important and reoccuring villains or female deuteragonists. The most minor character of the bunch is probably like, Piranha Plant, but that was more or less included as a gag character, and Sakurai justifies it by saying that it's more recognizable than main characters of lesser series.
The other ones like Ganondorf, Wolf, Falco, Dark Pit, etc are mostly clonish characters put in later in development, under the virtue that they wouldn't eat up as much development time as a full blown newcomer. The big reason someone like Wolf got into Brawl while Krystal didn't was because the former, in Sakurai's words, could at least be around 30% cloned off of Fox lol.
M@R!3
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It's not only too normal sounding, but also just straight ripped off the name of this keyblade because of who uses it.Name is fake because it sounds normal - a phrase that would make sense in a regular context. It needs to make less sense to stand up to Nomura's standards.
Dinoman96
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Honestly? I feel like the best case scenario for a new Zelda rep at this point is Pig Ganon.
Feels like it'd make everyone happy. It'd abide by Sakurai's usual criteria for character selection (being a big reoccuring villain), and it'd sastify those wanting a unique Zelda character AND those wanting a more faithful moveset for Ganon, all while leaving the current Ganondorf as is for his fans to still enjoy.
The only real losers would be fans of the non-Triforce characters lol
Feels like it'd make everyone happy. It'd abide by Sakurai's usual criteria for character selection (being a big reoccuring villain), and it'd sastify those wanting a unique Zelda character AND those wanting a more faithful moveset for Ganon, all while leaving the current Ganondorf as is for his fans to still enjoy.
The only real losers would be fans of the non-Triforce characters lol
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Pig Ganon is easily one of my favorite choices for Smash. The ALTTP version is nowhere to be found, not even as a Spirit. And it's the most iconic design.
Impa would be nice too, but I'm one of the few who wants her Oracle design the most. Tingle is my otherwise main one I want. So three neat characters to add, each with their own unique abilities.
Impa would be nice too, but I'm one of the few who wants her Oracle design the most. Tingle is my otherwise main one I want. So three neat characters to add, each with their own unique abilities.
pupNapoleon
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I just think the issue with Zelda is really more evoctative of the fact Sakurai and Nintendo aren't very interested in the majority of secondary/teritary characters as unique newcomers to begin with.
Like these are the only non-clone, non-protagonist (at least, at the time of their Smash inclusion) that have been made playable:
Going by the above, they seem to mostly be highly important and reoccuring villains or female deuteragonists. The most minor character of the bunch is probably like, Piranha Plant, but that was more or less included as a gag character, and Sakurai justifies it by saying that it's more recognizable than main characters of lesser series.
The other ones like Ganondorf, Wolf, Falco, Dark Pit, etc are mostly clonish characters put in later in development, under the virtue that they wouldn't eat up as much development time as a full blown newcomer. The big reason someone like Wolf got into Brawl while Krystal didn't was because the former, in Sakurai's words, could at least be around 30% cloned off of Fox lol.
Though half that list could be considered mascots
My top pick for a Zelda character has become a Lynel.
They are (to me) the most memorable enemy of BotW, and instilled the most fear.
They are a unique shape.
They've been in since the beginning.
This is also by a process of elimination, because I think more races that make Hyrule unique, should be in. Since we aren't likely to get multiple--- I decided Lynel makes the most sense.
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Dinoman96
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Going throught that..
Though half that list could be considered mascots
Isabelle is the mascot of Animal Crossing now, and she's also a semi-clone of Villager
For Min Min, they literally justified her as "everyone in ARMS is the main character"
Duck Hunt is the mascot and sole rep of...Duck Hunt. And technically the hunter, the actual player component of DH, is included in the overall moveset.
Diddy Kong had DKC2 and Diddy Kong Racing to his name prior to his inclusion in Smash
So that just leaves the Pokemon, which I feel like are mostly a completely different can of worms in comparison to the other franchises. The selection process for them is very different from everyone else.
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pupNapoleon
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You didnt initially say mascots. You said Protagonists and clones. I actually am the one who added in mascots to your list.
Dinoman96
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Personally, I just kinda view "mascot" and "protagonist" as basically the same kind of thing. At least for guys like Duck Hunt or Wii Fit Trainer.
pupNapoleon
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But they are wildly different things.
In Duck Hunt the mascot is the antagonist.
LiveStudioAudience
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Realistically there's going to be different rules/patterns for different series because franchises contrast in the prominence and nature of their various characters. Mario ends up with more fighters than Kirby because the former has various character led spin-offs and is obviously far more popular. DK has the same as Star Fox because the latter's were easy to implement regardless of which one is bigger in prominence or sales.
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