Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[chocolatejr9]

The switch has been out for 1480 days and I still can't play Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, or Final Fantasy 6 on it. Why? pic.twitter.com/mHatpKmTgJ

— Jarrod (@Jr0dR87) March 22, 2021

I can understand Chrono Trigger and FFVI being absent because both are not owned by Nintendo, but Earthbound not being on the Switch at this point it's kinda stupid.

This reminded me of another obviously fake 4chan post I just saw. I'd share it, but I got a bit of flack for the last one, so I probably shouldn't...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Square Enix making no effort to get any old RPG’s on Switch is pretty telling of their hit and miss support of the system in general really.

To be fair, isn’t the modern remake of FF4 limited to DS, iOS and Steam? The steam ports of V, VI and Chrono Trigger are also inferior to their GBA versions (V/VI) and DS version (CT)

Steam!CT is still miles better than PS1 CT with its abysmal load times I’ll give you that

 

[Geno Boost]

I remember people before were discussing how Ganondorf should be reworked completely to not be a Captain falcon clone and giving his old moveset to Black shadow however Ganondorf has improved now
But
how about Sonic? it doesn’t feel he has improved or reworked in any way would it be a good idea if Mighty take on his old moveset and Sonic gets reworked on his new moveset?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The switch has been out for 1480 days and I still can't play Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, or Final Fantasy 6 on it. Why? pic.twitter.com/mHatpKmTgJ

— Jarrod (@Jr0dR87) March 22, 2021

I can understand Chrono Trigger and FFVI being absent because both are not owned by Nintendo, but Earthbound not being on the Switch at this point it's kinda stupid.

The fact that we can't even get the one that was already in English on the Wii U pretty much dampens my hope for the sequel....

Really thought we were gonna get it back in 2016 for the 10th Anniversary after we got Earthbound Beginnings finally in official English.

 

[Otoad64]

I remember people before were discussing how Ganondorf should be reworked completely to not be a Captain falcon clone and giving his old moveset to Black shadow however Ganondorf has improved now
But
how about Sonic? it doesn’t feel he has improved or reworked in any way would it be a good idea if Mighty take on his old moveset and Sonic gets reworked on his new moveset?

no.

The reason people say to give Black Shadow Ganondorf's moveset is because people like it's playstyle even if it isn't accurate to the character. I'm pretty sure most people dislike Sonic's playstyle but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Even then Sonic's moveset really doesn't fit Mighty, I would imagine Mighty being slow and heavy. Classic Sonic maybe

 

[ahemtoday]

I remember people before were discussing how Ganondorf should be reworked completely to not be a Captain falcon clone and giving his old moveset to Black shadow however Ganondorf has improved now
But
how about Sonic? it doesn’t feel he has improved or reworked in any way would it be a good idea if Mighty take on his old moveset and Sonic gets reworked on his new moveset?

Black Shadow may not be too relevant in the grand scheme of things, but he's at least important to the F-Zero series. Mighty wasn't in the series for 23 years. I love the Sonic series' extended cast, but it would feel absolutely bizarre to have our two Sonic characters be Sonic... and then Mighty, even if it's for a developmental reason like that. There's at least seventeen better picks than that.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

While on Black Shadow and Ganondorf:

even then Black Shadow shouldn’t get ALL of Dorf’s old moveset. He should have some moves 100% original for him, like the electric chains he used in one GX cutscene

 

[Ornl]

Here's a theory for y'all that I've been thinking on: Roster Diversity. I'm curious to see if this will ever be proven wrong.

Basically, ever since they started introducing newcomers one by one in Brawl, Nintendo has been very consistent on giving us characters that are different in terms of genre, appearance, ability, etc. when compared to the character that preceded them. Occasionally they will have characters from similar genres side by side, but, interestingly, it has never been more than two.

64 and Melee were obviously different in how they showed off their characters (they were just in commercials and the intros to both games if I remember correctly), but even then the one exception to this theory has been the Ice Climbers being confirmed after Peach and Bowser, but obviously they still differ visually. Maybe you could argue that having Shulk announced right after Robin and Lucina is a point against this theory, but I don't really see it that way due to Lucina being an echo and being announced at the same time as Robin.

If you don't believe me, you can just look for yourself at the roster:

View attachment 308240

The reason for this is probably obvious. Nintendo doesn't want you to get bored. They want to give us varied and interesting characters as much as they possibly can.

What can we do with this information? Well for starters, I think it's almost a guarantee that another JRPG character will not be next. It's perhaps even possible that we won't see a character like Dragonborn given he would be another sword user with magic (I'm not certain that Pythra actually uses magic, but it looks like magic anyway).

Not 100% certain on this of course. I just think it's worth keeping in mind.

Will the next Fighter be a toon or a non-human?
Nintendo Fighters
• 15/60 (=1/4) are human(oid) toons.
• 20/60 (=1/3) are non-human(oid) toons.
• 20/60 (=1/3) are human(oid) non-toons.
• 5/60 (=1/12) are non-human(oid) non-toons.
It's very strict!*
3rd-party Fighters
• 2/14 (=1/7) are human(oid) toons.
• 3/14 (≈1/5) are non-human(oid) toons.
• 9/14 (≈3/5) are human(oid) non-toons.
• 0/14 are non-human(oid) non-toons.

*Moreover, I like this possible disorderly patern in the Fighter passes:
Nintendo rep / +or- adult rep / +or- good child rep



/ ? / ?
Could this be the end of Nintendo characters?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Here's a theory for y'all that I've been thinking on: Roster Diversity. I'm curious to see if this will ever be proven wrong.

Basically, ever since they started introducing newcomers one by one in Brawl, Nintendo has been very consistent on giving us characters that are different in terms of genre, appearance, ability, etc. when compared to the character that preceded them. Occasionally they will have characters from similar genres side by side, but, interestingly, it has never been more than two.

64 and Melee were obviously different in how they showed off their characters (they were just in commercials and the intros to both games if I remember correctly), but even then the one exception to this theory has been the Ice Climbers being confirmed after Peach and Bowser, but obviously they still differ visually. Maybe you could argue that having Shulk announced right after Robin and Lucina is a point against this theory, but I don't really see it that way due to Lucina being an echo and being announced at the same time as Robin.

If you don't believe me, you can just look for yourself at the roster:

View attachment 308240

The reason for this is probably obvious. Nintendo doesn't want you to get bored. They want to give us varied and interesting characters as much as they possibly can.

What can we do with this information? Well for starters, I think it's almost a guarantee that another JRPG character will not be next. It's perhaps even possible that we won't see a character like Dragonborn given he would be another sword user with magic (I'm not certain that Pythra actually uses magic, but it looks like magic anyway).

Not 100% certain on this of course. I just think it's worth keeping in mind.

The Diversity Theory eh? Crash lends himself well to this theory, particularly since we haven’t gotten a platformer character in this pass. Also, he has a distinct aesthetic style from everyone else in the roster so that also helps with this theory.

 

[Wunderwaft]

The only thing making me doubt this diversity theory is the fact that we got three silent jrpg anime protagonists in the first pass. Hell I remember an interview where someone joked to Sakurai about too many sword characters in the roster and he replied with something close to "It is what it is" or something like that.

 

[Icedragonadam]

The only thing making me doubt this diversity theory is the fact that we got three silent jrpg anime protagonists in the first pass. Hell I remember an interview where someone joked to Sakurai about too many sword characters in the roster and he replied with something close to "It is what it is" or something like that.

Sakurai and Nintendo doesn't give a **** about genre diversity. Nintendo only cares if the character itself would sell well.

 

[SharkLord]

The only thing making me doubt this diversity theory is the fact that we got three silent jrpg anime protagonists in the first pass. Hell I remember an interview where someone joked to Sakurai about too many sword characters in the roster and he replied with something close to "It is what it is" or something like that.

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...e-says-its-not-up-to-him-whether-they-get-in/

Was it this one?

Either way, I agree that Nintendo's not all that worried about genre overlap; They already gave us three JRPGs in FP1, two of which had fighters that used a sword. I've seen people saying we're done with JRPGs far the rest of the pass, and while I agree that three consecutive RPG packs might be a bit much, I can easily see CP11 going back to JRPGs at the end.

 

[Wunderwaft]

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...e-says-its-not-up-to-him-whether-they-get-in/
View attachment 308253
Was it this one?

Either way, I agree that Nintendo's not all that worried about genre overlap; They already gave us three JRPGs in FP1, two of which had fighters that used a sword. I've seen people saying we're done with JRPGs far the rest of the pass, and while I agree that three consecutive RPG packs might be a bit much, I can easily see CP11 going back to JRPGs at the end.

Yeah that's the one. The last two characters could be the most anime jrpgs swordies that ever sworded and there's nothing that can be done if Nintendo chose them. Funnily enough Sakurai did say in an earlier interview that he acknowledges that there are too many sword fighters, but now that he's not in charge of choosing who gets in he just gets to relax and see the complaints get fired at Nintendo instead of him.

 

[chocolatejr9]

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...e-says-its-not-up-to-him-whether-they-get-in/
View attachment 308253
Was it this one?

Either way, I agree that Nintendo's not all that worried about genre overlap; They already gave us three JRPGs in FP1, two of which had fighters that used a sword. I've seen people saying we're done with JRPGs far the rest of the pass, and while I agree that three consecutive RPG packs might be a bit much, I can easily see CP11 going back to JRPGs at the end.

And Dragalia Lost is a JRPG for mobile devices...

Oh yeah, it's all coming together.

 

[Brother AJ]

The only thing making me doubt this diversity theory is the fact that we got three silent jrpg anime protagonists in the first pass. Hell I remember an interview where someone joked to Sakurai about too many sword characters in the roster and he replied with something close to "It is what it is" or something like that.

True, but they weren't released completely back to back, which is my point. That's pretty much always been the case in Smash. They'll give at most two similar characters then change it up. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo understood that it's best to have a buffer.

Sakurai and Nintendo doesn't give a **** about genre diversity. Nintendo only cares if the character itself would sell well.

Well that's certainly a pessimistic take. I'd say that the history of Smash reveals says otherwise. I believe one could argue that variety in fighting games sells better anyway.

 

[Lyncario]

Square Enix making no effort to get any old RPG’s on Switch is pretty telling of their hit and miss support of the system in general really.

I know it's more about really old school jrpgs by Square, but was already have FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, and FFX/FFX-2, all of which are over 15 years old (with the youngest of them being 18 years old, and every others being at least 20). And then also DQ 1-3 and remasters of others snes era jrpgs that aren't FF, DQ, or CT, so really it's not that there's no old jrpg by Square Enix on the Switch, it's just that all of them aren't there.

 

[7NATOR]

I ask, What RPG Franchises do you guys think have a chance for FP2?

 

[chocolatejr9]

I ask, What RPG Franchises do you guys think have a chance for FP2?

I literally just mentioned Dragalia Lost...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I ask, What RPG Franchises do you guys think have a chance for FP2?

Final Fantasy and Xenoblade are pretty safe bets.

 

[Technomage]

we got three silent jrpg anime protagonists in the first pass.

You forgot to add "blade-using".

I ask, What RPG Franchises do you guys think have a chance for FP2?

Let's see...

Either Lloyd of Yuri
Gen 8 Pokemon
Sora
Dragonborn from the Elder Scrolls
Agumon
Lara Croft (assuming the reboot trilogy counts as a set of RPGs)
Frisk from Undertale
Paper Mario

 

[7NATOR]

Final Fantasy and Xenoblade are pretty safe bets.

I guess I mean that aren't already in, but considering you were using the PAC-MAN emote, you might have been intentionally being cheeky

 

[Shroob]

True, but they weren't released completely back to back, which is my point. That's pretty much always been the case in Smash. They'll give at most two similar characters then change it up. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo understood that it's best to have a buffer.

Well that's certainly a pessimistic take. I'd say that the history of Smash reveals says otherwise. I believe one could argue that variety in fighting games sells better anyway.

The history of Smash reveals in what way?

Because looking at the DLC for both Smash 4 and Ultimate:



That gives us 10 RPG characters
3 Fighting game characters
2 platformer characters
1 sandbox game/adventure character
and 1 hack n'slash(?) character


RPGs heavily outweigh any other genre irt dlc.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I dunno I have a feeling FPV2 will close out with two never before represented genres. Or at least one

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as the RPG fighter emphasis in Smash goes I think there is a fundamental reason beyond any notions of bias.

Basically since the one two punch of FFVII and Pokemon in 1997 the genre has become huge in the West and is something finally somewhat comparable to how liked it it is in Japan. Its a contrast to stuff like FPS titles which have struggled to get footing the latter region. Furthermore because there's been a steady stream of releases (unlike say platformers which dipped for a while before indies took up the mantle) for such a long time that there's plenty of stuff to draw from. Heck ask any hardcore fan on here and they'll mention plenty of them that Smash has barely touched.

Outside really niche categories, the JRPG genre has a surplus of IP's and are relatively safe to include for an all region friendly emphasis that Smash has

 

[Lamperouge]

I ask, What RPG Franchises do you guys think have a chance for FP2?

Tales ain't out of the running yet.

 

[Technomage]

As far as the RPG fighter emphasis in Smash goes I think there is a fundamental reason beyond any notions of bias.

Basically since the one two punch of FFVII and Pokemon in 1997 the genre has become huge in the West and is something finally somewhat comparable to how liked it it is in Japan. Its a contrast to stuff like FPS titles which have struggled to get footing the latter region. Furthermore because there's been a steady stream of releases (unlike say platformers which dipped for a while before indies took up the mantle) for such a long time that there's plenty of stuff to draw from. Heck ask any hardcore fan on here and they'll mention plenty of them that Smash has barely touched.

Outside really niche categories, the JRPG genre has a surplus of IP's and are relatively safe to include for an all region friendly emphasis that Smash has

Plus, RPG characters often have the biggest move pools.

 

[Shroob]

I just feel bad for whatever RPG character we get next.

They could have the sickest moveset known to Smash and you'd just hear "ANOTHER ANIME SWORDSMAN?????!!!!!!!!!!" screamed over and over again.

 

[7NATOR]

There's a question I have about the Mii costumes

If these characters are not playable, should we expect these characters as Mii's in the NEXT wave?

-Shin Megami Tensi character (like Jack Frost)
-Ryu Hayabusa

with the fact that they had the Monster Hunter and Arthur costumes come with Pyra/Mythra because their games were coming out soon, since May-June is around the time the next character is likely to release, could we see the same case here with these 2 characters, IF they aren't playable?

 

[Shroob]

There's a question I have about the Mii costumes

If these characters are not playable, should we expect these characters as Mii's in the NEXT wave?

-Shin Megami Tensi character (like Jack Frost)
-Ryu Hayabusa

with the fact that they had the Monster Hunter and Arthur costumes come with Pyra/Mythra because their games were coming out soon, since May-June is around the time the next character is likely to release, could we see the same case here with these 2 characters, IF they aren't playable?

Maybe.


That's really the best answer I can give.


Monster Hunter Rise was kinda a special deal, due to it being a timed-exclusive release, so the costumes coming then were a big promotional push for a game that wouldn't always be Nintendo exclusive. Likewise, SMT Nocturne already is multi-plat.

 

[Lyncario]

I ask, What RPG Franchises do you guys think have a chance for FP2?

I feel like SMT, Ys, and Trials all have a pretty good chance.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Its a contrast to stuff like FPS titles which have struggled to get footing the latter region.

Honestly, this might be the biggest reason for the lack of a FPS rep.

I have no horse in that race, because FPS games don't appeal to me, but considering it's one of the biggest genres out there, the lack of appeal in Japan might as well be a big roadblock considering we haven't got a single playable character from it so far.

(Not to say it's impossible, but it's certainly an explanation.)

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, this might be the biggest reason for the lack of a FPS rep.

I have no horse in that race, because FPS games don't appeal to me, but considering it's one of the biggest genres out there, the lack of appeal in Japan might as well be a big roadblock considering we haven't got a single playable character from it so far.

(Not to say it's impossible, but it's certainly an explanation.)

What do you mean.

Metroid Prime is a FPS.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I dunno I have a feeling FPV2 will close out with two never before represented genres. Or at least one

Will this be the third time I mention Dragalia Lost in this conversation? Yes.

Do I care? No.

 

[SharkLord]

I ask, What RPG Franchises do you guys think have a chance for FP2?

• Tales is a hard maybe, thanks to the Lloyd Mii. Still, what with how big it is, Bamco working on Smash directly, and the mysterious complete absence from the base game - Nothing whatsoever, not even the Namco Roulette, when every other Mii'd third-party from last game had at least something - Makes me think it still has a solid chance of breaking through the pattern.
• Dragalia Lost is a decently large new Nintendo IP, it's Nintendo's first original mobile IP, and it still has absolutely nothing. I'm expecting at least something out of it, even if it's not an actual fighter.
• A Falcom rep could be this pass' answer to Terry, thanks to the company's ease of access and legacy. Trails, and most likely Estelle, seems to be the bigger series and Falcom's main focus, but Adol and Ys would help capitalize on the legacy aspect.

 

[Shroob]

• Tales is a hard maybe, thanks to the Lloyd Mii. Still, what with how big it is, Bamco working on Smash directly, and the mysterious complete absence from the base game - Nothing whatsoever, not even the Namco Roulette, when every other Mii'd third-party from last game had at least something - Makes me think it still has a solid chance of breaking through the pattern.
• Dragalia Lost is a decently large new Nintendo IP, it's Nintendo's first original mobile IP, and it still has absolutely nothing. I'm expecting at least something out of it, even if it's not an actual fighter.
• A Falcom rep could be this pass' answer to Terry, thanks to the company's ease of access and legacy. Trails, and most likely Estelle, seems to be the bigger series and Falcom's main focus, but Adol and Ys would help capitalize on the legacy aspect.

Question irt the Namco roulette.

I remember that Lloyd got an additional copyright on his Mii outfit, I assume the series creator? Did Gil or Heihachi do the same?

 

[3BitSaurus]

What do you mean.

Metroid Prime is a FPS.

Ah, so that's why Metroid is unpopular in Japan.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ah, so that's why Metroid is unpopular in Japan.

You're only NOW realising that?

 

[3BitSaurus]

You're only NOW realising that?

...It was a joke, man.

And if I'm not mistaken, Metroid is more popular in the West since its early days. Sakurai even said some japanese players didn't recognize Samus back in Smash 64.

 

[chocolatejr9]

...It was a joke, man.

I suck at identifying jokes...

 

[SNEKeater]

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...e-says-its-not-up-to-him-whether-they-get-in/
View attachment 308253
Was it this one?

Either way, I agree that Nintendo's not all that worried about genre overlap; They already gave us three JRPGs in FP1, two of which had fighters that used a sword. I've seen people saying we're done with JRPGs far the rest of the pass, and while I agree that three consecutive RPG packs might be a bit much, I can easily see CP11 going back to JRPGs at the end.

Yeah I could totally see another JRPG char. At the same time I'd be surprised if we don't get a more "cartoony/colourful" character as well. I guess Steve counts but for I feel that he doesn't really appeal to the same target audience. I'd also count Min Min to an extent, though I know others will not agree with me.

Not implying we'll get Crash, even if what I'm saying screams "Crash". I do think he would make sense considering that so far Pass 2 doesn't have a character like him. At the same time he would bring some visual variety to the lineup. But at the same time he's not the only character that would make sense, there are a lot of other candidates that also have their merits. Not to say, certainly a lot of characters that felt very likely ended being deconfirmed, so who knows.

Yeah that's the one. The last two characters could be the most anime jrpgs swordies that ever sworded and there's nothing that can be done if Nintendo chose them. Funnily enough Sakurai did say in an earlier interview that he acknowledges that there are too many sword fighters, but now that he's not in charge of choosing who gets in he just gets to relax and see the complaints get fired at Nintendo instead of him.

I'd say Sakurai has more freedom with the base roster picks. Or that's how it feels. For DLC it's mostly up to Nintendo, which is understandable I guess. I could see Sakurai being able to bring suggestions to the Nintendo execs, but they would have the final word.

I just feel bad for whatever RPG character we get next.

They could have the sickest moveset known to Smash and you'd just hear "ANOTHER ANIME SWORDSMAN?????!!!!!!!!!!" screamed over and over again.

Pretty much. I'd say sword fighters in general. Even if we get a sick sword user that is able to do ton of crazy stuff like Sora or Dante, angry people will just stick with the sword fighter complain.

I think pretty much any character that isn't a big name will get a good amount of **** and hate from now on. Only 2 fighters left and it seems like this is it, so some fans will take things more personal because their most wanteds are not in.