Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[3BitSaurus]

Smash speculation is a society.

Implying speculation is somehow NOT total chaos already...

 

[PeridotGX]

what do we deserve?

we deserve an undertale character. Mr. Sakurai, gibe us an unertale character.

mr.sakurai please

 

[Otoad64]

we deserve an undertale character. Mr. Sakurai, gibe us an unertale character.

mr.sakurai please

we have an Undertale character at home:

 

[Ivander]

Soon, we're gonna get what we deserve...

what do we deserve?

Either a little known character or Jonesy.

 

[Louie G.]

Don't take this as my opinion on how on how speculation should be discussed, I think people ought to talk about whatever they want and humor some wilder ideas whether or not they have much reason to be believed, but I feel like Touhou is an odd example since it feels like a coin toss whenever I come into this thread whether or not Touhou / Reimu is being discussed again lmao. Smaller character in the grand scheme of things but certainly no lack of discussion.

In that sense I can kind of understand a bit more of a breaking point for expressing that you find a character unlikely, but unless we're specifically discussing their chances I usually feel like it isn't worth reiterating what I think is likely and what isn't.

 

[PeridotGX]

we have an Undertale character at home:

this is a nintendo switch game (nintendo switch has games). we need an undertale character for work. an undertale character for school. an undertale character for the local restaurant that isn't really your favorite but you go to maybe once or twice a year because they do make some high quality lasanga. we need one.

 

[N3ON]

No, it's just, no offense mate, but lately it's felt like you've kinda been putting a stranglehold on discussion for some of these smaller series. Like the Touhou stuff for the other day. People were just tossing around ideas for fun, and then you kinda came in with "It's not happening."


Like, I think most of us deep down know it's not, but what's the harm in talking about it? Because even if it's not your intention to stifle discussion, it's kinda understandable that it does end up being the case. Sure, some people will take the current glitches and go on full-blown conspiracy theory, but at the same time, that's also not everyone either.


I don't really care if I'm stepping out of line here, I'm just being brutally honest with ya, this thread's the speculation thread, I don't see why it's soo wrong to toss out wild, impossible speculations for the hell of it. We're wasting our time posting on a dying forum about what video game characters get included in a children's party game, why not just throw out fun, dumb ideas and talk about them for the hell of it? Why kill it before it gets any legs to stand on?

I never said Yakuza wasn't happening, I said it wouldn't be a bombshell in the west. And my first comment was wondering if on that basis it would still be a solo E3 reveal.

That doesn't preclude it from anything. I didn't say Kiryu wouldn't happen. I didn't say Yakuza was some unheard of series. I didn't say it couldn't be at E3. I didn't even say Kiryu was unlikely. Talk about him all you want, my disagreement solely revolved around the size and reception of the series, which isn't speculative, it's objective.

People hear any kind of criticism, like me saying Kiryu isn't a bombshell in the west (which he's not), and suddenly I'm ****ting on the whole franchise and it's entire chance to get included? Any negativity is complete negativity? That's not fair, that's putting words in my mouth.

All I've ever done is present my take on the issue. I've never told people to stop talking about a character, I've never made people respond to me, I try my best to keep my snark in check, and I've never raised a character just to **** on them. I almost never attack the actual character, because that's subjective. Your party is going to get ruined by one person saying "I don't think this is going to happen and here's why", which is the worst you'll hear from me? I'm not going to belabour a point apropos of nothing; if I'm debating with someone over a character, it means someone has responded to what I said. Maybe they want to talk about it as I'm talking about it. No one has the obligation to respond to me, but from what I can tell there usually are a decent amount of people who agree with the things I've said. So it's not like there aren't those who appreciate that sort of analysis. Not everyone has to, there's room for all kinds.

Toss out whatever wild impossible speculation you want. I've never stopped anyone from doing that. But it's not particularly fair to engage in the debate on the pragmatic terms I typically prefer for a few posts, and only then condemn the style. What license do you have to say anything and expect no one to challenge it? This thread isn't just for untethered imagination and baseless claims, it's for speculation. If I want to do that realistically, that's going to take up maybe a tenth of page, unless other people want to do it too.

But I appreciate the honesty. I don't think being straight with people is a bad thing if everyone is civil.

 

[Otoad64]

we need an undertale character for school.

is putting Papyrus around children a good idea?

 

[3BitSaurus]

is putting Papyrus around children a good idea?

Depends on whether or not he's cooking. He did take lessons from Undyne, after all, which automatically makes him a hazard in the kitchen.

 

[SharkLord]

Don't take this as my opinion on how on how speculation should be discussed, I think people ought to talk about whatever they want and humor some wilder ideas whether or not they have much reason to be believed, but I feel like Touhou is an odd example since it feels like a coin toss whenever I come into this thread whether or not Touhou / Reimu is being discussed again lmao. Smaller character in the grand scheme of things but certainly no lack of discussion.

In that sense I can kind of understand a bit more of a breaking point for expressing that you find a character unlikely, but unless we're specifically discussing their chances I usually feel like it isn't worth reiterating what I think is likely and what isn't.

I've just accepted that we're never going to agree on Reimu until something actually happens regarding Touhou in Smash. To boil it down to the simplest form of the argument, Touhou is driven by fans much more than pretty much any game with a fighter in Smash, and everyone has different opinions on what that unique situation means for her chances, judged by different, personalized standards. I just kinda wish I had more opportunities to talk about Touhou in general and ping ideas off of people regarding a hypothetical scenario of a Touhou DLC pack, rather than retreading the same debates about likelihood over and over again.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Smash speculation is a society.

View attachment 307283

this thread is kinda like our society ngl

 

[Arcanir]

While I mostly agree with you, I will play Devil's Advocate and point out that this discussion, at least, was about "Is Yakuza big enough in the West for an E3 reveal?" That would allow for people to say no, though it seems like the responses are mixed so far and I'm not sure if we have a definitive answer yet.

Yeah, this is kind of the thing: Is giving a 'no' in this discussion really being dismissive of it when the question is practically asking for those type of answers? It's not like N30N or the others are coming in and saying 'nope, not happening, lol!' here, they're giving reasons and backing up their points for why they think he wouldn't be big enough. That is being a part of a discussion since those points can be talked and debated about, and it wouldn't be a valuable talk if everyone just said 'yeah, he would be' with little else said whether positive or negative.

That's not to say that this thread doesn't have a problem with dismissing characters they don't care for, but this situation I don't think it was it. It was just an honest answer to a question that called for it.

 

[epicmartin7]

Fun fact. This is 6 years old now.

Sign the Petition

Port Smash Bros. 4 to the PSVita

www.change.org

I feel old.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Fun fact. This is 6 years old now.

Sign the Petition

Port Smash Bros. 4 to the PSVita

www.change.org

I feel old.

i... what

why

i just. have so many questions.

 

[DynoStretch]

What,

 

[chocolatejr9]

i... what

why

i just. have so many questions.

Some people just be like that...

 

[PSIGuy]

• Codec only appears for opponents that have some for of weaponry (Samus, Mega Man, Inkling, etc).

also lets them reuse Marth's Falchion codec for Lucina and Chro, and Simon's Vampire Killer codec for Richter. it's like they're half done already!

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I think it's time for everyone here to admit that they're not certain who's coming next. The closest we got to a confirmation was Pyra/Mythra's voice actor performing a big role, but that was half a year ago and could've been for anything at the time. As of now, none of the usual suspects can be easily verified for a future confirmation.

This is how Adeleine can still win.

 

[Will]

Codec only appears for opponents that have some for of weaponry (Samus, Mega Man, Inkling, etc).

Sure, let me just work my necromancy to revive Colonel's voice actor.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sure, let me just work my necromancy to revive Colonel's voice actor.

didn't they retire Colonel Roy Campbell as a whole when his Japanese VO died? they won't even replace his VO out of respect

 

[Pillow]

Love the Honesty

Though in terms of Sakurai not being interested in Another Sonic character, it's hard to know since we don't have confirmation either way.

I will say in terms of the moveset standpoint, the Only character I could see being more straightforward would be Knuckles. Knuckles would have more unique movement options with the Digging and the Gliding, which would be cool to experiment with. He can also Summon Meteors

Spoiler

which is something I thought Sephiroth would be able to do in Smash

, but he's mainly based around Punching and such. even then the movement options available could add new Dimension to the game, Plus honestly I imagine most of the unique stuff would be the Specials or Passive, and that's where most of the unique stuff is with DLC. as an example, most of Hero's unique attacks are his Specials and passive abilities, not his Normal Attacks

Eggman, Tails, and Shadow would probably not be as Straightforward. Tails has his Tails and alot of Aerial prowess, but he's also a tactian and has alot of Technology to use. Shadow can control Space and Time, and there's alot to do with that, along with being able to use some of Sonic's Unused techniques that could add new Gameplay elements. Eggman is Eggman, though that might also be a point against him since it could be hard to implement Eggman, but that's a different discussion

Look, I won’t deny these characters have potentially interesting movesets. I firmly believe any character can be given a fun moveset. I only meant that Sakurai would be less inspired to choose these characters over others, as evidenced by the moveset of Sonic himself and lack of Sonic content over the span of 3 games, which even a Sonic hater like myself thinks is sparse for such a big series.

After it's been reiterated regarding Byleth, Min Min, Steve, and Pyra and Mythra, I think it's safe to say Sakurai's personal wants only apply regarding what Nintendo's specified. Even if he doesn't want a second Sonic character, he can only really avoid that if Nintendo just says "Choose a Sega character, we don't care who."

Sure, I just think if he was told “choose a Sega character” then he’d choose someone from a new series.

 

[zeldasmash]

didn't they retire Colonel Roy Campbell as a whole when his Japanese VO died? they won't even replace his VO out of respect

Yeah. This is indeed the case. I think it was also the reason why there are no new codec conversations in Ultimate.

 

[SpecterFlower]

I'm actually kinda curious on precisely how big Yakuza is in the West. I've seen Kiryu pushed as in a good place because his series has hit it big worldwide, but I'd imagine Yakuza's still biggest with Japanese audiences. Has the series broken out enough to qualify as a bombshell reveal for a Western event, or is it not quite that big yet?

Yakuza is actually declining in Japan so Kiryu would actually be a more western skewed character with sizable popularity in Japan still.

however as for if he's a bombshell pick? lol no.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Sure, let me just work my necromancy to revive Colonel's voice actor.

Ooor you could use Otacon and Mei Ling, who also appeared in them.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm curious, on the topic of Sonic, how do you guys feel Tails fares overall?

I had counted him out for a while, and I imagine most people did on account of his Mii Costume, but since he was part of the first wave of the first pass... every pack was handled quite a bit different than Joker's, which was back in April 2019 anyway. I think if any costumes were gonna get promoted, it would be that one since I feel like FP2 wouldn't have been 100% locked in at the time. In my eyes this is a bit of a debatable grace period. We already know that Rex's costume was a non-factor, assuming that Sakurai didn't cook up these concepts way ahead of time.

There are a few factors that are having me take Tails more seriously - as I addressed before Sega is in a pretty comfy place to get another character, but on top of that we have three characters in this pass coming from series that already had some content in-game. It's not a guarantee that we get another, although that's a pretty significant chunk right? 3/4 of these characters overlap with some content that we already had. I've been struggling to figure out who (up until now, I guess?), but I feel like we may get one more character who falls under that umbrella.

The biggest competition another Sonic character has is Arle - who I want significantly more, and think she at least does still have a fighting chance - but I will be honest and accept that more Sonic would appeal to the Smash audience a bit more directly, plus more obvious moveset potential that the potentially surface-level-thinking Nintendo could see more clearly. I would be disappointed but not upset to see another Sonic character chosen over Arle.

And then I opt for Tails over Eggman because... well, it seems arbitrary but with how much of a focus Sephiroth had on being a big bad boss, I'm not very confident that we have another villain in tow. Couple that with Eggman being a little bit more difficult to envision over the much more clear cut Tails. I guess it kinda depends whether or not Nintendo would approach Sakurai and say "we want Tails" or if we'd have a situation where Sakurai gets to select whatever Sonic character he likes. But even then, Smash tends to lean in the direction of sidekicks over villains when applicable.

 

[Will]

didn't they retire Colonel Roy Campbell as a whole when his Japanese VO died? they won't even replace his VO out of respect

that's the point i was trying to get at, yes

Ooor you could use Otacon and Mei Ling, who also appeared in them.

for new characters sure, i guess, if you really wanted to. gonna be pretty soulless though.

 

[Pillow]

There's a vast chasm between unheard of and bombshell and therein resides Kiryu outside Japan.

Sure, but your original comment was about Kiryu being big enough for a solo E3 reveal. I think he is. Honestly, I think most 3rd party characters that aren’t completely japan-centric qualify, as I don’t think E3 has some big “must be this western to ride” standard.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Codec and Palutena Guidance's will both be replaced with on screen text from Cranky Kong, which regardless of fighter, will eventually degenerate into complaints about how easy today's Smash Bros players have it and how in his day there were only two characters in Super Smash Bros Zero for NES, and that's the way they liked it!

There's a reason why they gave the special mode to Funky in TF's switch port....

Tropical Burn#DonkeyKong #DonkeyKongCountryTropicalFreeze #DonkeyKongTropicalFreeze #Nintendo #NintendoSwitch #Switch pic.twitter.com/HBx5xV2DDI

— Wooden Plank Studios (@WoodenPlank) May 9, 2018

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'd love for Tails to get in (we're definitely overdue for more Sonic remixes) but his entire opportunity feels dependent on Sega pushing for him given that I get a sense Nintendo and/or Sakurai don't feel terribly interested in him. I mean given that Nintendo had Sonic exclusive games for the Wii U around the same time Smash 4 was being released and he still couldn't get on the roster? Suggests to me there's just too many people in the process that are just lukewarm about him.

 

[Louie G.]

I'd love for Tails to get in (we're definitely overdue for more Sonic remixes) but his entire opportunity feels dependent on Sega pushing for him given that I get a sense Nintendo and/or Sakurai don't feel terribly interested in him. I mean given that Nintendo had Sonic exclusive games for the Wii U around the same time Smash 4 was being released and he still couldn't get on the roster? Suggests to me there's just too many people in the process that are just lukewarm about him.

To be fair, the third-party situation is quite a bit different nowadays compared to Smash 4, with the floodgates formally opened up to new characters from third-party IPs already in the game. I do agree that Sakurai doesn't seem very interested in Sonic - I've argued that point against Sonic characters before.

Although with Nintendo in full control over these decisions, it's hard to say. There's nothing implying one way or the other whether Nintendo corporate is interested in expanding on Sonic content (to our knowledge, Sakurai was the only one who decided Smash 4's roster), but the one thing that's inarguable is that Sonic is very popular and consistently relevant / marketable.

I think you're right to be skeptical, but I think the odds are at least better than I was willing to give them credit for before. And just to clarify my stance on this, I'm trying to look at it objectively - I would rather not have another Sonic character right now since I want Arle significantly more.

 

[SharkLord]

Sudden idea:
Does anyone have a situation where aside from the main character of an unrepresented game, they also want one of the supporting characters? If we're going for an example with an already-represented series, an example would be wanting Mega Man and Zero at the same time before the former was revealed in 4. Does anyone have a similar situation now? I think this could help shake things up a bit; Look at some more unlikely choices.

 

[Idon]

Sudden idea:
Does anyone have a situation where aside from the main character of an unrepresented game, they also want one of the supporting characters? If we're going for an example with an already-represented series, an example would be wanting Mega Man and Zero at the same time before the former was revealed in 4. Does anyone have a similar situation now? I think this could help shake things up a bit; Look at some more unlikely choices.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Sudden idea:
Does anyone have a situation where aside from the main character of an unrepresented game, they also want one of the supporting characters? If we're going for an example with an already-represented series, an example would be wanting Mega Man and Zero at the same time before the former was revealed in 4. Does anyone have a similar situation now? I think this could help shake things up a bit; Look at some more unlikely choices.

Yeah Jill and Leon is an easy one. I guess that kinda counts.

 

[Pillow]

Sudden idea:
Does anyone have a situation where aside from the main character of an unrepresented game, they also want one of the supporting characters? If we're going for an example with an already-represented series, an example would be wanting Mega Man and Zero at the same time before the former was revealed in 4. Does anyone have a similar situation now? I think this could help shake things up a bit; Look at some more unlikely choices.

Dante + Vergil
Jill + Wesker

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sudden idea:
Does anyone have a situation where aside from the main character of an unrepresented game, they also want one of the supporting characters? If we're going for an example with an already-represented series, an example would be wanting Mega Man and Zero at the same time before the former was revealed in 4. Does anyone have a similar situation now? I think this could help shake things up a bit; Look at some more unlikely choices.

I know that Phoenix has quite a couple of choices in terms of potential echos/alts if he ever got in.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sudden idea:
Does anyone have a situation where aside from the main character of an unrepresented game, they also want one of the supporting characters? If we're going for an example with an already-represented series, an example would be wanting Mega Man and Zero at the same time before the former was revealed in 4. Does anyone have a similar situation now? I think this could help shake things up a bit; Look at some more unlikely choices.

How about hero and villain at the same time?

one way my KOS-MOS + T-elos dream can come true...

 

[SharkLord]

Sudden idea:
Does anyone have a situation where aside from the main character of an unrepresented game, they also want one of the supporting characters? If we're going for an example with an already-represented series, an example would be wanting Mega Man and Zero at the same time before the former was revealed in 4. Does anyone have a similar situation now? I think this could help shake things up a bit; Look at some more unlikely choices.

Perhaps I should clarify this. It wasn't necessarily the main character and side character together, it's characters from an unrepresented series you want who aren't the main character. They don't need to be tied to the MC.

 

[KillerCage]

How about hero and villain at the same time?

one way my KOS-MOS + T-elos dream can come true...

Oh boy. You just unleashed the Blazblue fan inside of me!

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm curious, on the topic of Sonic, how do you guys feel Tails fares overall?

I had counted him out for a while, and I imagine most people did on account of his Mii Costume, but since he was part of the first wave of the first pass... every pack was handled quite a bit different than Joker's, which was back in April 2019 anyway. I think if any costumes were gonna get promoted, it would be that one since I feel like FP2 wouldn't have been 100% locked in at the time. In my eyes this is a bit of a debatable grace period. We already know that Rex's costume was a non-factor, assuming that Sakurai didn't cook up these concepts way ahead of time.

There are a few factors that are having me take Tails more seriously - as I addressed before Sega is in a pretty comfy place to get another character, but on top of that we have three characters in this pass coming from series that already had some content in-game. It's not a guarantee that we get another, although that's a pretty significant chunk right? 3/4 of these characters overlap with some content that we already had. I've been struggling to figure out who (up until now, I guess?), but I feel like we may get one more character who falls under that umbrella.

The biggest competition another Sonic character has is Arle - who I want significantly more, and think she at least does still have a fighting chance - but I will be honest and accept that more Sonic would appeal to the Smash audience a bit more directly, plus more obvious moveset potential that the potentially surface-level-thinking Nintendo could see more clearly. I would be disappointed but not upset to see another Sonic character chosen over Arle.

And then I opt for Tails over Eggman because... well, it seems arbitrary but with how much of a focus Sephiroth had on being a big bad boss, I'm not very confident that we have another villain in tow. Couple that with Eggman being a little bit more difficult to envision over the much more clear cut Tails. I guess it kinda depends whether or not Nintendo would approach Sakurai and say "we want Tails" or if we'd have a situation where Sakurai gets to select whatever Sonic character he likes. But even then, Smash tends to lean in the direction of sidekicks over villains when applicable.

The main issue with me trying to rate how likely Tails would be is that there's three other characters who make just as much sense (Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman). I think you could make a convincing argument for any of them.

I'm sure we'll get another Sonic character eventually, but there's no clear frontrunner IMO.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai POTD.

pic.twitter.com/G3PxXvciNI

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) March 15, 2021