Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SharkLord]

Would people be more intrested in my movesets if they were in video form?

I find text more convenient, if only because I can't be %$#ed to turn off the music I'm listening to.

 

[ZelDan]

The way I see it, if Sakurai/Nintendo want a first party character, they will go for it. It's largely the same thing with third party characters, but obviously there are some added complications there.

Also, if they were fine with promoting regular trophies and spirits, and even considered doing it with a Mii costume (Rex), then I guess I don't see why they'd be so adamant against promoting an AT. Not to mention we've seen them do more with AT'd characters before, like with the Callie/Marie Mii costumes or the Bomberman costumes. While these costumes weren't that hard to make compared to an At or playable fighter, they still took some time and effort to make I'd think, so it still kind of begs the question of, if Sakurai/Nintendo really though ATs were "good enough," why go through with it?

 

[SKX31]

I think I may have found it

Official - Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion | Page 427 | Smashboards

Though Honestly I could have sworn it was a different logo, but yeah it was apparently filed on August 2nd of 2019, and there was some telephone stuff in there as you can see from few of the comments below

Wayback Machine did not have that page archived sadly, so it's going to be nigh-impossible to trace it back unless it was copied somewhere else.

If it's real, it could be anything from a port of an older game to a modified Ultimate to even a new game. While mobiles can be a very wonky fit for fighting games as Core-A Gaming argued*:

A deep mobile fighter is entirely feasible. Not just because of what Core-A noted above, but also because mobiles themselves have become powerful enough to do ray-tracing (at the cost of the battery's life). Article paywalled and will not load sometimes. Sometimes it will though.

*(And this is a valid reason to doubt the claim, but I wouldn't throw it in the trash entirely.)

 

[ZelDan]

You know, I just remembered that Contra is a series I'd love to see added in Smash. Like, part of me wishes I remembered this when making my post with 11 characters, but at the same time I absolutely do want the 11 characters I went with.

Crud why does there have to be so many cool gaming franchises/characters?

 

[SpectreJordan]

New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.

90. Crash Bandicoot
91. Ryu Hayabusa
92. Dante
93. Officer Howard
94. 2B
95. Leon Kennedy
96. Dr Eggman
97. Doom Slayer
98. Waluigi
99. Ratchet & Clank
100. Master Chief

 

[Pillow]

Going off of the Ganon discussion, if other clone characters were reworked to be more distinct and include more moves from their own games what sort of mechanics or moves would you guys like to see? What would you absolutely want to stay the way it is?

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Would people be more intrested in my movesets if they were in video form?

Sorry for the late reply, but I've been working on stuff and felt your post should get some feedback. Just as a preface, this isn't going to be feedback on your movesets specifically, since I'm having trouble finding them to give you a more specific answer.

I'm not usually a visual guy, but I think some simple images can be helpful. When people start talking about moves a character is doing, a lot of the time they either assume the reader knows what thing the move is referencing, or take a paragraph explaining how the move works only for it to come off like "basically Ike's F-smash but holding a street sign." Having a graphic to show what you're talking about might help a little, and video could do the same if that's more convenient for you.

But as an old English major, I'm going to say the biggest problem with movesets is probably reader retention. To cover everything about the character, you're going to have 16 moves + grabs. A proper explanation of each will be at least two sentences, and at that point you're talking about a 300 word post in a forum, where people are mentally prepared for short snippets and individual paragraphs. A lot of people go the other direction and cut out everything but the specials, and that runs into the other problem where the work is just incomplete. I can't tell what the vision for a character is with only 4 moves. For instance, if you came up with Fox's specials and only told me those, it would tell me absolutely nothing about his holistic abilities. Creating a concept that gives all the information without dragging on would be a difficult balance, but it's probably there. Depending on the character, you might be able to consolidate some moves with a synopsis of how they would function in a general sense (e.g. with Toon Link you could say his normals are all sword swipes that are fairly quick, but also kind of stubby and bad on block, encouraging the player to rely more on his projectiles to keep him safe). In a situation where consolidation makes sense, it saves you the hassle and is easier to digest as a reader.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Wayback Machine did not have that page archived sadly, so it's going to be nigh-impossible to trace it back unless it was copied somewhere else.

If it's real, it could be anything from a port of an older game to a modified Ultimate to even a new game. While mobiles can be a very wonky fit for fighting games as Core-A Gaming argued*:

Food for thought: who would be responsible, if we got some kind of mobile Smash? What studios would have the know-how to make those? I kinda doubt it would be developed 100% in-house.

 

[Dinoman96]

I will forever maintain that the assist trophy characters are barred off from DLC not because they're ATs, but because they're characters that Nintendo weren't going to choose anyways.

Look what happened to Isaac back in Smash 4, his AT didn't come back and yet he wasn't made DLC later...he just wasn't in the game at all. Likewise Saki's AT being absent in Ultimate doesn't make him anymore likely, he's just now represented as a spirit and Mii outfit.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I will forever maintain that the assist trophy characters are barred off from DLC not because they're ATs, but because they're characters that Nintendo weren't going to choose anyways.

Look what happened to Isaac back in Smash 4, his AT didn't come back and yet he wasn't made DLC later...he just wasn't in the game at all.

That was always my fear with Isaac. He's a cool character with a lot of potential abilities, but I could see Nintendo corporate or Sakurai seeing him as an irrelevant character or just "the guy with the hand magic." If the people making the game decisions can't see the potential, there isn't a whole lot you can do.

 

[TheCJBrine]

As Mentioned, this DLC would have gone through 2 E3 Periods

Now I don't think the reveals would be as Big as Steve from Minecraft, and maybe not even Sephiroth

But they still could be exciting additions though. Bayonetta was considered an Exciting addition, it's just that she doesn't compare to Cloud, Ryu, or Mewtwo from before

These characters have to sell, both in the Pass format and separately. So I think Nintendo wants all the characters to be exciting.


---------------------------------------------

Also did you guys see this "Rumor" from Gamefaqs

Probably take this leak with a spoon full of sugar rather than a pinch of salt - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (gamespot.com)

Personally I can't believe the fact that they were developing 4 Characters at times when they were only supposed developing 1. Maybe if that was the planning of characters for the Next game, I could see it, not active development though

I do believe that there is some type of expansion, or something after Ultimate already planned after FP2. I think FP2 is the end of Base Ultimate, but I think Nintendo and Sakurai might already be planning for what comes next, especially if all the rumors about Certain characters have some merit to it. I just don't think Development is currently happening for that, but focus is on FP2

Feels fake since Sakurai said there were only two more characters, so it'd feel weird that he'd say that while apparently having already worked on more for an expanded version of the game, especially since you can supposedly download them into the standard version of Ultimate if you buy the new one.

I know this conversation happened waaaay earlier, but now that I'm home from work, I'd like to throw my opinion into the ring:

Do Mii Costumes, Assist Trophies, and Spirits deconfirm? In my humble opinion: Yes, Yes, and and depends on the timing.

There ya go, there's the post.

...Okay, in all sincerity, I believe things like Mii Costumes and Spirits depend on the timing: Rex was most likely only in consideration for Sakurai and Nintendo because the Rex costume's inclusion was more than likely decided pretty early on in development as an incentive to purchase FP1. When negotiations for FP2 started, it gave them the opportunity to look back at Rex and XB2 and go "Huh, y'know, that game was popular and there was a pretty vocal outcry against the Mii Costume. Maybe Rex would be a good fit, now that the timing is right". However, in the end, Pyra and Mythra were chosen because of the technical complications trying to work Pyra in with Rex would bring.

Now, does this mean every Mii Costume ever is back on the table? Not really, no. Rex was under a very specific and fortunate circumstance that, ironically enough, didn't even benefit him in the end. Mii Costumes added in a currently ongoing pass most likely will not feature as playable characters in said same pass in my opinion, as I do not see the business sense in that: If you already had content coming in the form of a playable fighter, why would you include said fighter as a costume for another fighter if said character was coming in the imminent future? The logic that it would "fake fans out" isn't very convincing to me, because I honest to goodness doubt Nintendo marketing executives care about messing around with communities like us that, when compared to the actual install base of Smash, is microscopic and not at all on their larger radar. The speculation scene is but a blip in the bigger blue water market ocean: Our opinions and speculation really don't impact or matter as much as a few of us would like to believe, so no, I don't buy it would be done as a specific way to reveal a character via fake-outs and mysteries. Nintendo doesn't operate like that: They are super clear and to the point when they are selling you something. Nintendo wouldn't sell you a chocolate cake and then go "Surprise, it's vanilla!", they'd sell you the chocolate cake and then give you vanilla frosting as a compliment. Would certain characters become viable again if a Pass 3 was announced? I wouldn't see a reason to say no, as there wouldn't be any good reason why a costume considered and planned for a previous project plan would impact a completely brand new one, but that isn't the situation we're dealing with here with the characters we're discussing and the most likely scenario Smash Ultimate is sunsetting with FP11.

Spirits have been talked to death and I don't think there's much more I can add about them myself. I think what I wrote about Mii Costumes can be applied here as well: It depends on the timing. Base game Spirits? Sure, they're in the running: Min Min and Pyra prove that! Post-game events? That's where I become doubtful.

Assist Trophies are a pie-in-the-sky want from this fandom. Look, believe me, I get it: I'm a huge Waluigi supporter, I'm bummed he got snubbed again too, but the reason so many people treat it like a deconfirm and caution hyping and tin-foil hatting is because we have multiple pieces of information from Sakurai himself and from the way ATs work period that imply that Nintendo considers that representation enough. Could that be broken? Anything is possible, but all I'll say is that there isn't much evidence to show that it will, meaning I personally wouldn't expect it and I would advise responsible hyping.

Also, since this topic also came up: Don't be so concerned about being "right" or "wrong" about Smash speculation: Just have fun with it! Most people here are here because of the community aspect and comradery that comes with have mutual interests and passions. If you're getting hung up on speculating for brownie points and "LOOK AT ME, I'M SO SMART" attitudes, then I don't think you really understand the point of why most are here, and I'd really advise against it. It kinda kills the fun.

I agree with mostly everything, though I feel ATs are certainly possible; it seems they were never implied to be good enough for the characters specifically, but Sakurai did hope they'd make people happy, and of course there's his joke with Waluigi; "just because you try hard doesn't mean you'll make it into the battle" but idk. Of course, as we've seen with Little Mac, they can eventually become fighters if ever reconsidered, and I think that could happen through DLC, since they don't seem to care about look-alikes as much as some thought (Bomberman mii costume looks like his AT, and there's the Pyra/Mythra color-swap alts.) and ATs can be disabled depending on the stage (so likely could depend on chosen fighters) as well.

Of course, I think they're unlikely at this point, just a possibility, but I do agree on people not hyping themselves up too much. I think I've been a bit guilty of that, even if I don't start an outrage or get super rude like some people do when their character doesn't get in, just standard disappointment while still finding positives in what we do get. At least the hype paid off for Steve and the Bear & Bird duo, though (although I was still cautious about them instead of acting like they were 100% guaranteed)

Actually I guess I basically agree with your AT points anyway now that I think about it, just I feel a bit more optimistic about it being open I guess idk, even if I don't expect it.

I very much agree with your last point, and I believe this is part of why trying to have fun speculating/predicting anything in this fanbase was tiring in the past, and still is sometimes. I've also argued over what is just videogame stuff and sometimes probably dumb points at the end of the day, although I do my best to try and stay respectful and never insult anyone, however I am afraid I may come off that way at times even if I don't use rude words and stuff as admittedly I sometimes get a bit too argumentative, frustrated or stubborn; I don't really like arguing, and get anxious about it, yet I argue anyway >_> I think I've taken it too seriously at times, when really I should be more relaxed about it...

In the past, though, people have been rude/belittling of others over what just seemed like predictions or silly/dumb "leaks" to me, and even if they were dragged on it didn't feel like a good reason to treat others as crazy or whatever over it; stuff like this, as well as gatekeeping you can sometimes see elsewhere, making the past couple of years tiring, causing speculation to feel pointless even as a social activity at times...really, I realize I should've just taken a break, as someone suggested I did before...not to mention, I sometimes read people wrong, misinterpreting their post/intent >_>

 

[ES. Dinah]

Any acknowledgement from Sakurai would be a huge tipping point. We know that Sakurai is a huge fan of Persona because he's mentioned starting with Persona 1 and gushed about the whole series after hugging Morgana. In comparison I can't find a single quote of him acknowledging Xenosaga or Xenogears. When he spoke about viable Bandai Namco reps in Smash 4, he mentioned Heihachi and literally no-one else, not even Kos-mos. He's made more Shin Megami Tensei references than Xenosaga or Gears references (he paraphrased the Cathedral of Shadows welcome when showcasing Spirit fusion at a Nintendo Live in 2018 and outright mentions it by name in that Persona video).

So I'm agnostic to the possibility of them being references. I just don't see the point of assuming them to be.

I am pretty certain that Monolith Soft designed the alt colours. I feel like if Sakurai suggested colours he would have just pulled from the Xenoblade 2 Alrest artbook for their colours. Also Monolith Soft made the trailer and referenced the multiverse thing going on with Pyra meeting Rex so we could assume they designed the alts as well. The references are clear as day to me and it's better than referencing the party members in Xenoblade 2 like he did with Shulk. Xenoblade 2 takes a lot from Xenogears and potentially even Xenosaga at times so I think the two Xenogears alts and maybe one Xenosaga alt make sense. There is a reference to every Xeno game but X, IMO. And since Takahashi had a hand in the trailer and we already know he loves referencing past Xeno games I think the references are intentional even if we dont know they are.

 

[7NATOR]

I will forever maintain that the assist trophy characters are barred off from DLC not because they're ATs, but because they're characters that Nintendo weren't going to choose anyways.

Look what happened to Isaac back in Smash 4, his AT didn't come back and yet he wasn't made DLC later...he just wasn't in the game at all. Likewise Saki's AT being absent in Ultimate doesn't make him anymore likely, he's just now represented as a spirit and Mii outfit.

I'm so glad you mention the Saki Point. There's no reason why characters like Tingle, Magnus, and Saki, who couldn't even have their Assists come back, should be more likely than characters like Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow, Shovel Knight, Skull Kid, etc, just because the latter are Assists and the Former are only Spirits

In any case, I will say that I'm unsure about the point that Nintendo wouldn't choose the characters. There are many things to take into Account

-The Base Roster Newcomer count was small in comparison to other games, with the Unique roster count being Very small. There was not too much space for Newcomers on the roster

-DLC wasn't a decided thing until sometime after January 11th of 2018, and the plans were made without the Dev's knowledge. This would mean Ultimate was made with the intention that Base game might have been it, and that includes all the roles that were decided for Playable and NPC characters

-Stuff like the Waluigi backlash around E3 2018, along with other Backlashes of other Assists like Bomberman, Isaac, Shadow, Skull Kid happened probably when talks of Potential DLC was in talks

-Sephiroth, a Very Iconic character in his own right, was out-prioritized by Dragon Quest in regards to who came first. Both characters/Franchises are important, but they went with Dragon Quest first. Of course it could be a case where Sephiroth would have always been DLC, even if there wasn't a FP2, if Sakurai's comments of "1-2 extra fighters would have sufficed", but it does show that not every Potential character Nintendo would choose will come at same time

-Popular Veteran Assist Trophies being absent from the game would be very weird, especially if DLC for some reason didn't happen, or it only went to FP1. If DLC wasn't as expansive as it is now, but Waluigi, Shadow, Lyn, Skull Kid just had their Assists removed, then they just end up in Downgraded role just like how Tingle, Magnus, and Saki did, when the Former characters are more popular. There's a reason Waluigi, Shadow, Lyn have been Kept as Assists since their inception, when you take into account not every Assist returns for the next game.

-The Assist characters might be in better positions than they were when the Base roster was decided in 2015. Sonic as a Franchise is in a better position now than he was back in 2015, and characters like Waluigi, Shadow, Skull Kid, Isaac, Ashley were at their most popular in terms of Speculation during this game

-Bomberman is an example of Reconsideration of his Assist Role, since he got a Premium, Paid Mii costume. Mii costume does not take any where near as much effort as a Fighter, but it does show that Nintendo/Sakurai will reconsider a Character's representation, if they have enough merit


Perhaps characters that don't already have a Presence in Smash might get more priority than characters that do, but there's more that goes into the conversation then just that. At the end of the day it depends on a Character's merits to join Smash in the first place, and how they compare to other characters. Some of the Assist characters are very popular and Nintendo has already been able to negotiate Roles for them in the game, so I think that may be enough to put them in the conversation

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I am pretty certain that Monolith Soft designed the alt colours. I feel like if Sakurai suggested colours he would have just pulled from the Xenoblade 2 Alrest artbook for their colours. Also Monolith Soft made the trailer and referenced the multiverse thing going on with Pyra meeting Rex so we could assume they designed the alts as well. The references are clear as day to me and it's better than referencing the party members in Xenoblade 2 like he did with Shulk. Xenoblade 2 takes a lot from Xenogears and potentially even Xenosaga at times so I think the two Xenogears alts and maybe one Xenosaga alt make sense. There is a reference to every Xeno game but X, IMO. And since Takahashi had a hand in the trailer and we already know he loves referencing past Xeno games I think the references are intentional even if we dont know they are.

i get no music from X cuz supposedly Sawano is high profile, but not even a SINGLE X reference? it's... to say the least, suspicious

 

[SKX31]

Food for thought: who would be responsible, if we got some kind of mobile Smash? What studios would have the know-how to make those? I kinda doubt it would be developed 100% in-house.

Uuuuuh...

Good question! It's something I can't say for certain myself since we're looking at a mobile platform fighter. And most mobile dev teams are practically invisible. But:

* Bandai-Namco would probably be the frontrunner here too, considering they have developed a mobile Tekken. Which shut down after a year, granted, but it's still a decent proof of concept. Other Japanese corps that could perhaps do it would be SNK, Capcom and Mixi (Monster Strike) since they have a lot of experience with mobile games period.

* Tencent could be an option because they're bearhugging Nintendo and have a massive mobile game dev operation period. But if they helped to dev a Smash mobile game accusations of pandering would instantly fly from outside China, and accusations of it being possibly a shoddy made mess before being "reworked" would instantly fly within China. There are also other Chinese devs that wouldn't attract as much scrutiny like Yunchang (who is currently devving DMC Pinnacle of Combat with Capcom's help, and they look like a competent dev team).

* It's difficult to find notable western mobile devs outside of like King, Supercell etc. Warner Bros. is a possible hypotheoretical option since they've dipped their toes with Mortal Kombat and Injustice. Marvel could have some potential here, but Contest of Champions was a bit controversial over its re-use of MvC supers.

They're mostly not clear-cut "These are super-great!" options, but options if Nintendo were to try and commit to a mobile Smash.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Given the dubious nature of Mario Kart Tour, I'm not in any hurry to see Nintendo try mobile Smash.

Getting all one's favorite characters isn't really worth it if the unlocking method involves either continually bilking you out of money or hoping there's a lucky spin of the proverbial roulette wheel.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.

81 - Crash Bandicoot
82 - Ryu Hayabusa
83 - Ring Fit Trainer
84 - Akira Howard
85 - Adol Christin (Ys)
86 - Dante
87 - Wolf from Sekiro
88 - Kiryu Kazuma
89 - Master Chief
90 - Sora

Honorable Mentions: Ayumi Tachibana, Off the Hook (Marina and Pearl), Travis Touchdown, Geno, Isaac, Phoenix Wright, Chorus Kids, Doom Guy, and far too many others.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

The worst part is that Nintendo making some kind of mobile gacha smash bros in the future isn't that farfetched considering how lucrative they're finding the mobile market to be.

shivers

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Uuuuuh...

Good question! It's something I can't say for certain myself since we're looking at a mobile platform fighter. And most mobile dev teams are practically invisible. But:

* Bandai-Namco would probably be the frontrunner here too, considering they have developed a mobile Tekken. Which shut down after a year, granted, but it's still a decent proof of concept. Other Japanese corps that could perhaps do it would be SNK, Capcom and Mixi (Monster Strike) since they have a lot of experience with mobile games period.

* Tencent could be an option because they're bearhugging Nintendo and have a massive mobile game dev operation period. But if they helped to dev a Smash mobile game accusations of pandering would instantly fly from outside China, and accusations of it being possibly a shoddy made mess before being "reworked" would instantly fly within China. There are also other Chinese devs that wouldn't attract as much scrutiny like Yunchang (who is currently devving DMC Pinnacle of Combat with Capcom's help, and they look like a competent dev team).

* It's difficult to find notable western mobile devs outside of like King, Supercell etc. Warner Bros. is a possible hypotheoretical option since they've dipped their toes with Mortal Kombat and Injustice. Marvel could have some potential here, but Contest of Champions was a bit controversial over its re-use of MvC supers.

They're mostly not clear-cut "These are super-great!" options, but options if Nintendo were to try and commit to a mobile Smash.

Cygames? They're developing Dragalia Lost

 

[Golden Icarus]

Going off of the Ganon discussion, if other clone characters were reworked to be more distinct and include more moves from their own games what sort of mechanics or moves would you guys like to see? What would you absolutely want to stay the way it is?

I’d definitely keep Side B. It’s one of his more useful moves and unique moves and it honestly fits him really well.

The other specials can go away though. It’s pretty crazy that Ganon’s moveset still consists of what is essentially Dark Falcon Punch, Dark Falcon Kick and Dark Falcon Dive.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Given the dubious nature of Mario Kart Tour, I'm not in any hurry to see Nintendo try mobile Smash.

Getting all one's favorite characters isn't really worth it if the unlocking method involves either continually bilking you out of money or hoping there's a lucky spin of the proverbial roulette wheel.

I think it depends on how the end result is done.

I've played games like LoL for years now and never spent a single penny. You can literally get the essentials just by playing the game, not unlike the coins we always got since Melee.

Come to think of it, Melee had a gacha for Trophies way before mobile games were a thing.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think it depends on how the end result is done.

I've played games like LoL for years now and never spent a single penny. You can literally get the essentials just by playing the game, not unlike the coins we always got since Melee.

Come to think of it, Melee had a gacha for Trophies way before mobile games were a thing.

Looks at the $50 I’ve spent so far on a few skins I really wanted

...some of them were on sale! I have an excuse!

 

[SKX31]

Cygames? They're developing Dragalia Lost

Excluded them because they're kinda displeased with Nintendo:

This is not an unreasonable fear. However, “whale” monetization is the core driver of mobile games today. Only 4% of Candy Crush players, for example, spend on the game. And 10% of this 4% (or 0.4% of users) generate 50% of revenue. As a result, even minor adjustments in whale optimization can devastate economics. According to WSJ, CyberAgent, the developer of the Nintendo-based mobile title Dragalia Lost, “slashed its fiscal-year earnings forecast for the first time in 17 years in January due in part to the game’s disappointing performance. While player numbers for the game have grown due to an aggressive advertising campaign, revenue from each player has fallen short of projections.” An anonymous official at CyberAgent told the Journal, “Nintendo is not interested in making a large amount of revenue from a single smartphone game… If we managed the game alone, we would have made a lot more.” Notably, Disney should share Nintendo’s brand concerns in mobile gaming. But this has not stopped the company from releasing basic games that generate billions from whale monetization. Its brand, albeit not one based in games, does not seem to have suffered. Nor has the Pokémon franchise in the years since the ultra-lucrative (and whale-supporting) Pokémon Go.

I’d definitely keep Side B. It’s one of his more useful moves and unique moves and it honestly fits him really well.

The other specials can go away though. It’s pretty crazy that Ganon’s moveset still consists of what is essentially Dark Falcon Punch, Dark Falcon Kick and Dark Falcon Dive.

TBF, out of those I wouldn't mind seeing Warlock Punch gone. Yeah, it's absolutely amazing once one lands it, but it is somehow more impractical than Falcon Punch, which is saying something since Falcon Punch is already the "awesome but impractical" move incarnate. Also it conflicts with his Up Tilt, which is another move used almost always for the disrespect.

I think it depends on how the end result is done.

I've played games like LoL for years now and never spent a single penny. You can literally get the essentials just by playing the game, not unlike the coins we always got since Melee.

Come to think of it, Melee had a gacha for Trophies way before mobile games were a thing.

It did, but the rate one gained coins through playing was pretty high, so if something similar was implemented into a mobile Smash where the in-game currency is gained at a reasonable rate it would be okay.

That's asking for a reasonable rate though, which is too rare amongst mobile devs sadly.

Looks at the $50 I’ve spent so far on a few skins I really wanted

...some of them were on sale! I have an excuse!

Looks at the $200+ total I've spent on skins and other stuff in Dota 2 through the yearly Battle Passes.

I regret nothing!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Excluded them because they're kinda displeased with Nintendo:





TBF, out of those I wouldn't mind seeing Warlock Punch gone. Yeah, it's absolutely amazing once one lands it, but it is somehow more impractical than Falcon Punch, which is saying something since Falcon Punch is already the "awesome but impractical" move incarnate. Also it conflicts with his Up Tilt, which is another move used almost always for the disrespect.



It did, but the rate one gained coins through playing was pretty high, so if something similar was implemented into a mobile Smash where the in-game currency is gained at a reasonable rate it would be okay.

That's asking for a reasonable rate though, which is too rare amongst mobile devs sadly.

...ouch.

 

[zeldasmash]

So, 11 characters I'd add to make a perfect 100 character roster?

View attachment 306847

Here's mine

First Party Characters:

Ghirahim (Skyward Sword)
Black Shadow (F-Zero)
Akira Howard (Astral Chain)
Sylux (Metroid)
Isaac (Golden Sun)

Third Party Characters:

Master Chief (Halo)
Dante (Devil May Cry)
Crash Bandicoot (Crash)
Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear)
Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Doomguy (DOOM)

Honorable Mentions: Raiden (Metal Gear), Eggman (Sonic the Hedgehog), Tifa (Final Fantasy), Impa (The Legend of Zelda), Kratos (God of War), Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney), Lloyd (Tales), Lara Croft (Tomb Raider), 2B (Nier), Waluigi (Mario) and Travis (No More Heroes).

 

[3BitSaurus]

Looks at the $50 I’ve spent so far on a few skins I really wanted

...some of them were on sale! I have an excuse!

Real talk: I'm patient enough that even the few Legendary Skins I own were obtained for free.

It doesn't take that long to grind either: pretty sure I'd have more skins and Champions if I didn't take months-long hiatuses from League every now and then.

It did, but the rate one gained coins through playing was pretty high, so if something similar was implemented into a mobile Smash where the in-game currency is gained at a reasonable rate it would be okay.

That's asking for a reasonable rate though, which is too rare amongst mobile devs sadly.

Yeah, another good example I've seen recently is Genshin Impact. Game literally gives you enough stuff to unlock just by playing - a friend of mine has about half the characters after just a few months of play - keep in mind that Genshin has several MMO like aspects, so the timing isn't crazy at all.

But you're right. It's a tough balance to hit. And if you don't wanna hit it... well, that's what the Diddy Kong pack and FIFA card packs became memes for.

 

[Golden Icarus]

TBF, out of those I wouldn't mind seeing Warlock Punch gone. Yeah, it's absolutely amazing once one lands it, but it is somehow more impractical than Falcon Punch, which is saying something since Falcon Punch is already the "awesome but impractical" move incarnate. Also it conflicts with his Up Tilt, which is another move used almost always for the disrespect.

Yeah, the Falcon Punch is already the definition of style over substance, and there is no reason for Ganondorf to take that gimmick away from Falcon. I find Wizard's Foot to be the most egregious though. It is a bit more useful, but doesn't fit Ganondorf at all in my opinion.

Honestly, I flip flop a lot on my views towards Ganon in Smash. I used to be on the side of people who believed that his moveset should be given to Black Shadow, while Ganondorf's playstyle gets a total revamp. But there is also a part of me that dislikes his playstyle so much that I wouldn't mind seeing it removed altogether. Like is it really worth bringing in Black Shadow of all characters just to preserve an already unpopular moveset? At the same time, I feel like we're at a point where Ganondorf's playstyle is such a staple that it would be kind of weird to remove it entirely, even if it is doing a tremendous injustice to the character. I don't know, maybe adding Pig Ganon in addition to Ganondorf really is the answer...

 

[chocolatejr9]

Excluded them because they're kinda displeased with Nintendo:





TBF, out of those I wouldn't mind seeing Warlock Punch gone. Yeah, it's absolutely amazing once one lands it, but it is somehow more impractical than Falcon Punch, which is saying something since Falcon Punch is already the "awesome but impractical" move incarnate. Also it conflicts with his Up Tilt, which is another move used almost always for the disrespect.



It did, but the rate one gained coins through playing was pretty high, so if something similar was implemented into a mobile Smash where the in-game currency is gained at a reasonable rate it would be okay.

That's asking for a reasonable rate though, which is too rare amongst mobile devs sadly.



Looks at the $200+ total I've spent on skins and other stuff in Dota 2 through the yearly Battle Passes.

I regret nothing!

For what it's worth, CyGames is still willing to work with Nintendo despite their disagreements. Heck, they even did a few remixes in Ultimate, most notably the Three Houses remixes.

 

[SKX31]

Yeah, the Falcon Punch is already the definition of style over substance, and there is no reason for Ganondorf to take that gimmick away from Falcon. I find Wizard's Foot to be the most egregious though. It is a bit more useful, but doesn't fit Ganondorf at all in my opinion.

Honestly, I flip flop a lot on my views towards Ganon in Smash. I used to be on the side of people who believed that his moveset should be given to Black Shadow, while Ganondorf's playstyle gets a total revamp. But there is also a part of me that dislikes his playstyle so much that I wouldn't mind seeing it removed altogether. Like is it really worth bringing in Black Shadow of all characters just to preserve an already unpopular moveset? At the same time, I feel like we're at a point where Ganondorf's playstyle is such a staple that it would be kind of weird to remove it entirely, even if it is doing a tremendous injustice to the character. I don't know, maybe adding Pig Ganon in addition to Ganondorf really is the answer...

Bit of a correction: luckily enough we have one guy who managed to collect 2 million online matches and characters used in them (with the latest update to the data happening just as released). First, top 5 in usage amongst those 2 million matches (both these spoilered):

Spoiler

To the surprise of absolutely no one.​

​

And win %:

Spoiler

Proof that zoning is buffed in Ultimate's terrible online. Also, Ken.​

​

And places #26-28 (out of 83) on the popularity list go to:

Ganondorf does have an existing playerbase, but I bet that a large amount of them are the people who think "haha funy Disrespect guy go DORIYAH!". Still, the moveset has some popularity, so I'd argue that at least bits and pieces of it are worth keeping, whether on Ganondorf or Black Shadow. D-Air is famously the most powerful spike in the games period. F-Air got the affectionate nickname "the Skull Crusher". Thing is, despite Ganondorf's current moveset being woefully lacking in terms of representing his canon abilities... it represents his canon power pretty damn well. And yeah, at this point, after four Smash games, it's become a staple, even if it shouldn't have.

If anything, I'd change some of his B moves first. That alone would change how he plays pretty drastically.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Excluded them because they're kinda displeased with Nintendo:

I read the entire article, the first few point's were good but then the writer went off the deep end.

fortnite has sold over 100 million while Zelda has only sold 20 million lol.

but zelda's an 80 dollar game and fortnites free?

he calls the best selling videogame's of this generation "niche" not even mentioning the fact they beat out everything that wasn't free being at full price the entire time and since fortnite's launch nintendo has made many more billion dollar or close to it games that have combined been making more money than fortnite so i don't really get their point about nintendo going GAAS when it's clear their make multiple 20 mil selling games at full price clearly is the better option. the only game company to beat them out is activision blizard (but just barely so this is likely to change) and tencent. why would they follow in the footsteps of roblox when it's less profitable?

it's a pretty good article until it read's like a pissed off shareholder that nintendo isn't trying to milk money out of divorced mom's and horny teenager's and 20 year old's on weird puzzle games and anime gatcha games..

sorry about the rant

and my favorite quotes he made im gonna put together

"Super mario run is in the top ten best selling app's of all time with over 700 million downloads" and " in 1990 Mario was more well known than mickey mouse now id like to wager that Mario is getting less popular nowadays since they didn't grow the ip enough"

im sorry if this wasn't accurate im not reading through that again.

 

[GothicSlenderman]

Going off of the Ganon discussion, if other clone characters were reworked to be more distinct and include more moves from their own games what sort of mechanics or moves would you guys like to see? What would you absolutely want to stay the way it is?

Quite a few actually

- Mario Pultergust moves. Or new animations that involve it. Luigi's Super Jump would fit perfectly with Burst Mechanic from LM3. And other specials based on power-up moves that are similar to Mario's. Raccoon tale side special. Luma Spin down special. Ice Flower Neutral Special
- Dash is Boost and doesn't cancel out speed. Sonic adds more speed the more he runs and with the more speed comes more knockback from his standard moves but with less control like the Wario Man Motorcycle. Also replace his Side Special with a Light Speed Dash, Super Peel Out or something else.
Using Spindash in are turns it into the Bounce or Stomp depending on if you hold the button or not.
- Change Specials between different options. Perhaps a copy ability similar to Kirby but only through kills. The new special he gets depends on the fighter so it's never just Neutral he copies. If he kills Link it's his Down Special. If he kills Wario then his Side Special. If Jigglypuff then her Up Special. If he kills another character then it adds to his arsenal instead of simply replacing the prior move. Holding shield and A allows him to change all 4 of his specials through a menu.
- Classic Mii Fighter based on the Wii Era games like Wii Sports, Wii Music and Wii Play. Default costume is also based on first appearance.
Any RPG Fighter - Perhaps a Experience and LVL up feature to make them strong but if they die they start over.
- More standard, Smashes and air moves based on other copy abilities. Also Melee hammer swing with meteor effect.

A first evolution Pokemon - Being able to evolve with experience and even gain new moves with each evolution. (Perhaps Machop or a starter)
- Wario Land stuff. Make him more than just funny fart man. Maybe the grabs and throws from Wario World or power ups and disguises from Wario Land.
All Tank Fighters - Allow them to carry heavy objects with ease and...
- Being able to carry opponents after they're grabbed like Donkey Kong

For new fighters though

Crash - Being able to use his attacks as movement abilities like the Slide Jump but add more to it.
Sora - From Kingdom Hearts 3 Sora could use powerful moves or Keyblade transformations if he was able to land hits enough. (If he couldn't the meter would recent. Meter being those 3 arrows that would appear over the menu) If he lands enough hits one of his specials would upgrade. But it would depend on what moves you used prior.
Doom Slayer - Gaining Ammo from land hits. His projectile moves would be more powerful than most but only because he has to get up-close to gain it back or add more.
Bill Rizer - Gaining new Gun types like Laser or Spreader through a power-up system similar to the first Contra. some people may not like it as that means you'd have to avoid the opponent to get the power-up but considering how strong they'd be and how much range Bill already would have (assuming he could still shoot in all 8 directions) I think it would be balanced.
Pyramid Head - A down special based on the quality of the town he's from. Silent Hill takes the visitors worst nightmares and memories and turns them into monsters. Instead this hard to hit move would remove or disable the opponents best or unique quality from them.

Cloud - His limit gauge is locked
Shulk - The Monado is disabled
The Hero - No MP gauge
Steve - Stripped down to wooden tools with less minerals

For others it would be their best stat reduced

Sonic - Makes him slower
Mario - All stats lowered and F.L.U.D.D. reset
Link - Less range
Any character with a chargeable move - All charges reset
Donkey Kong - Little to no strength

It could also remove item effects

Super Mushroom - instantly shrinks opponent
Super Star - Removes invincibility
Franklin Badge/Screwattack - disappears

Just overall cool toys and movement options that would make the character fun to play as even if you're not fighting someone.

 

[SKX31]

it's a pretty good article until it read's like a pissed off shareholder that nintendo isn't trying to milk money out of divorced mom's and horny teenager's and 20 year old's on weird puzzle games and anime gatcha games..

That article's far from perfect because of the highlighted part, yes. He's a guy whose metric of success starts at "really succesful mobile game" because F2P mobile games reach more people / kids than say a Nintendo console. It's also partly because that's what success is defined as within significant parts of the industry (this is also a criticism I have towards some of Zhuge's tweets). Which is a kinda unfair definition because success is always relative - Persona 5 and Three Houses were successful because they went way above expectations, and yet those two games would not even qualify as blips on the radar according to the author. Another criticism one can levy against the article is that he really misread Nintendo's willingness to expand beyond videogames at the current moment.

I've used it still mainly to highlight Nintendo's institutional stubborness and sometimes inability to shift - take for example, Nintendo's woeful online which has been bad for 15+ years what with the friend code silliness. He's accurate there. He's also pretty good at identifying Nintendo's cultural ideology, even if he misread their willingness to commit to the parks.

For what it's worth, CyGames is still willing to work with Nintendo despite their disagreements. Heck, they even did a few remixes in Ultimate, most notably the Three Houses remixes.

Huh, that I didn't even consider. Goes to show that Euden does have a small but still noticeable chance.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Nintendo's lack of willingness to follow trends is one of their greatest strengths and weaknesses. They've avoided the pitfalls of things like loot boxes and microtransactions for the most part while also having an awful online infrastructure on top of a pitiful handling of legacy content.

 

[DevaAshera]

New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.

90) Crash Bandicoot
91) Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
92) Master Chief
93) Elma (Xenoblade X)
94) Aigis (Persona 3)
95) Ganon (Zelda, LttP-style)
96) Saber (Fate/stay night)
97) Velvet Crowe (Tales of Berseria)
98) Reimu (Touhou)
99) Dr. Eggman
100) 2B (NieR Automata)

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.

90. Amy Rose (purely for the irritation it will cause people, especially if the reveal is set to "My Sweet Passion")

91. Metal Sonic (Sonic Echo. YOU MIGHT KNOW EVERYTHING I'M GOING TO DO, BUT THAT'S NOT GOING TO HELP YOU BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYTHING YOU'RE GOING TO DO. STRRRRRRRRANGE, ISN'T IT? GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR)

92. Tetra

93. Lanky Kong

94. Spyro

95. Dry Bowser (Bowser Echo)

96. Wart

97. Great Tiger (Boxer like Little Mac but floaty and magic like Ness)

98. Shantae (Regardless of any possible ESRB/CERO whatever concerning her attire)

99. Leon Powalski (Falco echo.... make it work somehow anyhow, even if just to irritate people)

100. Ninten (Lucas echo/mashup of both Ness and Lucas)

 

[Technomage]

They've avoided the pitfalls of things like loot boxes and microtransactions for the most part

Don't forget about never going political.

 

[PSIGuy]

I am pretty certain that Monolith Soft designed the alt colours. I feel like if Sakurai suggested colours he would have just pulled from the Xenoblade 2 Alrest artbook for their colours. Also Monolith Soft made the trailer and referenced the multiverse thing going on with Pyra meeting Rex so we could assume they designed the alts as well. The references are clear as day to me and it's better than referencing the party members in Xenoblade 2 like he did with Shulk. Xenoblade 2 takes a lot from Xenogears and potentially even Xenosaga at times so I think the two Xenogears alts and maybe one Xenosaga alt make sense. There is a reference to every Xeno game but X, IMO. And since Takahashi had a hand in the trailer and we already know he loves referencing past Xeno games I think the references are intentional even if we dont know they are.

Again; every instance of Takahashi mentioning Smash emphasizes that he is fine with letting Sakurai handle it. From whether there's a Xeno rep at all, to their costumes, to their moveset gimmick - we already know this. The way Sakurai talks about how he came up with Pyra and Mythra's moveset also supports this - no mention of conversing with Monolith Soft at all. Companies trust Sakurai to do this kind of thing, otherwise they wouldn't let him touch their characters.

Monolith Soft working on the trailer means nothing other than -they worked on the trailer- and to assume that means Takahashi personally had a hand in the trailer is unsubstantiated. Similarly unsubstantiated; the idea that Sakurai would reference Gears/Saga, considering he has literally never mentioned either game. Sakurai's not shy about praising what he loves. Monolith Soft aren't shy about making obvious references. And yet the references aren't obvious and feel forced, and Sakurai gives simple explanations of what each palette is meant to be. The real nail in the coffin for me is the idea that someone would see the similarities between Pyra/Mythra and Weltall (main weapon of the protagonist with a second 'personality' complete with new color scheme), ACKNOWLEDGE THE REFERENCE and then disregard half of the reference. Without Weltall Id, Pyra and Mythra are literally nothing like Weltall.

 

[SKX31]

Don't forget about never going political.

* Looks at Mother 3. Notices the Magysies.*

Uhhhhhmmmmm.....

Eurogamer's Simon Parkin detailed the 12-year development, the series' legacy as both "one of Japan's most beloved" and the video game cognoscenti's "sacred cow", and the endurance of its fan community. He was impressed by the quality of the fan translation, and described Itoi as a "storyteller" who chose the Japanese role-playing game medium to tell his story. Parkin noted how the "excellent" script unfurled from a "straightforward tale" into "breadth and depth of quality that few titles many times its budget achieve" with "affecting scenes" and "unexpected impact". He compared the chapter approach with the method of Dragon Quest IV.

Did I mention this part by the same author?

The game begins, in contrast to the previous Mother titles, in pastoral forest village, soon threatened by a forest fire that acts as the first dramatic trigger. Overlaid onto this is a larger, darker menace: the pig mask army. Throughout the game they invade your town, transforming it from rustic haven to technologically advanced police state. It's an unsubtle transformation, but one that allows the writers to explore the relationship between nature and technology, feudalism and capitalism, individuals and community, albeit a little heavy-handedly.

Nintendo let Itoi get away with some ****, man.

 

[chocolatejr9]

That article's far from perfect because of the highlighted part, yes. He's a guy whose metric of success starts at "really succesful mobile game" because F2P mobile games reach more people / kids than say a Nintendo console. It's also partly because that's what success is defined as within significant parts of the industry (this is also a criticism I have towards some of Zhuge's tweets). Which is a kinda unfair definition because success is always relative. Another criticism one can levy against the article is that he really misread Nintendo's willingness to expand beyond videogames at the current moment.

I've used it still mainly to highlight Nintendo's institutional stubborness and sometimes inability to shift - take for example, Nintendo's woeful online which has been bad for 15+ years what with the friend code silliness. He's accurate there. He's also pretty good at identifying Nintendo's cultural ideology, even if he misread their willingness to commit to the parks.



Huh, that I didn't even consider. Goes to show that Euden does have a small but still noticeable chance.

Hey, I didn't earn my status as "the Dragalia Lost guy" for nothing.

By the way, on today's episode of "something random", anybody here like Nendroids? GoodSmile, the guys behind them, is having a thing where you can suggest new ones.

Celebrate GSC's 20th anniversary with Nendoroid Select, a special campaign where you can submit suggestions directly to our team for the next new Nendoroid design and re-release! Submit your choices before polls close on March 31st!

Vote: https://t.co/WrBwbfIjUo#goodsmile pic.twitter.com/Xh5T7aeOGC

— GoodSmile_US (@GoodSmile_US) March 10, 2021

Maybe if we're lucky, we can MAKE Figure Theory real...

 

[Technomage]

* Looks at Mother 3. Notices the Magysies.*

Uhhhhhmmmmm.....



Did I mention this part by the same author?



Nintendo let Itoi get away with some ****, man.

Okay, make that "mostly never", now. Though truthfully, I was implying more about the propaganda side of going political.