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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
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Ah, that advice on expectations has reminded me: Maybe we should make our expectations as low as possible (like expecting the final fighter to be a character everyone hates)? That way, nothing could possibly disappoint us.
After reading some replies to the "expect the worst out of everything, and you'll never be disappointed" approach, I'm starting to agree that the end result might not be worth spending months spouting nothing but negativity.
This would be the step to take if people were better at divorcing expectation from hope.

It would make things less volatile, but it's clearly not how people work. I've tried my best to advise considering a character out until proven in, but the zeitgeist is usually the opposite, and the fanbase has been fraught with resulting inevitable dissonance.

Some people seem to think you can't still enjoy things with low expectations. Which is a strange mindset to couple with those who always praise whatever form the roster takes. Seems those people would walk away satisfied with no expectations.

But I suppose you can have whatever expectations you want if you can just shrug off having your expectations collapse in on themselves and handle disappointment in stride. Some people can. But sometimes expectation distorts into entitlement, sometimes you get lost in the hype, and then you'll start seeing those "slap in the face" comments when people are forced to reconcile with a different outcome. So it's not a universal skill, that's for sure.

So it varies from person to person. I don't think yours is a bad mentality, but some people wouldn't care at all if they didn't invest their expectations.
 
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SpecterFlower

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
851
the problem there is that those posts never go anywhere. I post a moveset I spent hours on? Nothing, but when i make a ****ty joke with a funny reaction image i get 30 likes and 13 quotes. I'm therefore less inclined to put in effort, and more inclined to post memes.
funny joke
like post.

anyway i realized YS was on sale a few day's ago and now i feel dumb for not noticing. when do eshop sales ussualy happen?

speaking of the eshop the sentient ehsop bag on the 3ds cam to my mind, they would be a cool character for smash. i want them to be day 1 dlc
they could throw those blocks,

maybe for upspecial they use those hook's and the down special could be deleting your data



......
.....
...... how bout a sentient virtual boy for smash? it's final attack is burning your retna's
 
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Evil Trapezium

Smash Master
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May 16, 2019
Messages
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GuyManRunnin
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SW-2246-2414-0334
New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.
Here I go

(90) #81 - Crash Bandicoot
(91) #82 - Sgt. Cortez
(92) #83 - Axel Stone
(93) #84 - Sora
(94) #85 - Phoenix Wright
(95) #86 - Klonoa
(96) #87 - Sol Badguy
(97) #88 - Decidueye
(98) #89 - Jin Kazama
(99) #90 - Ryu Hayabusa
(100) #91 - Doom Guy
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,922
New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)
Fighters
90. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
91. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
92. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
93. Kunio/Riki [River City]
94. SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
95. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
96. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
97. Nightmare [Soul Calibur]
Echoes
11e. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
38e. Shadow [Sonic]
46e. Bass [Megaman]
 
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Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
9,683
Location
Nintendo Land Theme Parks, Incorporated
New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.
90. Dixie Kong
91. Impa
92. Isaac
93. Krystal
94. Phoenix Wright
95. Chun-Li
96. Lloyd Irving
97. Leon Kennedy/Jill Valentine
98. Arle
99. Reimu
100. Sora
 

kylexv

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
3,305
Location
On this Planet
New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.
Newcomers:
83. Crash Bandicoot
84. Bandanna Waddle Dee
85. Eggman
86. Impa
87. Dante
88. Lloyd Irving
89. Waluigi

Echoes:
10e. Ninten
36e. Dixie Kong
46e. Proto Man or Bass
64e. Octoling

If any of the above are in FP2:
1. Garchomp
2. Ryu Hayabusa
 
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Flarestorm

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
21
Location
Italy
New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.
90. Paper Mario
91. Crash Bandicoot
92. Isaac
93. Waluigi
94. Skull Kid
95. Chorus Kids
96. Rayman
97. Spyro

Echoes:
Dixie Kong
Dry Bowser
Shadow
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,922
Bit of a side question here:

I often discuss about the idea of adding a new completely decloned Ganondorf to the game, and giving Ganondorf's old moveset to Black Shadow.
My question is, which previous version of Ganondorf is the most well regarded? Obviously, they wouldn't give him Ultimate's moveset, because he has all those sword smashes that wouldn't make sense for Black Shadow.

But like, which moveset do most people like the most? Melee, Brawl or 4?
 

RouffWestie

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Georgia
New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.
Remaining FP2
90: Sonia (Puzzle & Dragons)
91: Phoenix Wright

Echo Fighter Mini-Pass; 3 echoes + 3 new stages
92: Dry Bowser, Bowser's Castle
93: Ms. Pac-Man, PAC-MAZE 2
94: Tom Nook, some New Horizons stage it could be anything

FP3
95 and 96: Filia + Fukua ε
97: Lloyd Irving
98: Cooking Mama
99: Kratos
100: Any Undertale / Deltarune rep; preferably Susie
 
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Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
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Remaining FP2
90: Sonia
91: Phoenix Wright

Echo Fighter Mini-Pass; 3 echoes + 3 new stages
92: Dry Bowser, Bowser's Castle
93: Ms. Pac-Man, PAC-MAZE 2
94: Tom Nook, some New Horizons stage it could be anything

FP3
95 and 96: Filia + Fukua ε
97: Lloyd Irving
98: Cooking Mama
99: Kratos
100: Any Undertale / Deltarune rep; preferably Susie
What’s Sonia from?
 

zeldasmash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,994
Location
Puerto Rico
Bit of a side question here:

I often discuss about the idea of adding a new completely decloned Ganondorf to the game, and giving Ganondorf's old moveset to Black Shadow.
My question is, which previous version of Ganondorf is the most well regarded? Obviously, they wouldn't give him Ultimate's moveset, because he has all those sword smashes that wouldn't make sense for Black Shadow.

But like, which moveset do most people like the most? Melee, Brawl or 4?
Melee Ganondorf was the more competitively viable moveset in comparison to Smash 4 Ganondorf and especially Brawl Ganondorf. Not counting Ult. Ganondorf, I think Black Shadow would be Melee Ganondorf normals and special moves but with Smash 4 Ganondorf Up Smash. Heck, I'd even say he could borrow some of Smash 4 Ganondorf's custom moves for his specials (in particular for Up B).
 

Louie G.

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But like, which moveset do most people like the most? Melee, Brawl or 4?
Melee was the most viable, but Smash 4’s was naturally the most distinct of the three since Ganon got some minor adjustments with each game (and Brawl Ganon is baaaad).

So depends on the goal I guess, Melee or Smash 4 both have strong cases.

Also something that I want to suggest is that I feel Black Shadow doesn’t really work as a 1:1 for Ganon - moveset wise would work just fine, but I don’t think any F-Zero character ought to be so slow. So I imagine he’d be adjusted and rebalanced a bit.
 
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Technomage

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
2,289
Bit of a side question here:

I often discuss about the idea of adding a new completely decloned Ganondorf to the game, and giving Ganondorf's old moveset to Black Shadow.
My question is, which previous version of Ganondorf is the most well regarded? Obviously, they wouldn't give him Ultimate's moveset, because he has all those sword smashes that wouldn't make sense for Black Shadow.

But like, which moveset do most people like the most? Melee, Brawl or 4?
I don't know; maybe they could give Black Shadow a thick laser sword? Hey, they gave Captain Falcon fiery karate attacks, which he never did in his games until after Smash 1.
 
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Pillow

Smash Lord
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Unless Nintendo actually revives F-Zero, I think I'd rather just have a 2nd version of Ganon alongside the original over Black Shadow. It's not like Smash has been averse to giving us different reincarnations of the Tri-Force given that we have 3 links. Though I'm also in the minority that thinks both Zelda and F-Zero representation in Smash is actually fine as it is.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Bit of a side question here:

I often discuss about the idea of adding a new completely decloned Ganondorf to the game, and giving Ganondorf's old moveset to Black Shadow.
My question is, which previous version of Ganondorf is the most well regarded? Obviously, they wouldn't give him Ultimate's moveset, because he has all those sword smashes that wouldn't make sense for Black Shadow.

But like, which moveset do most people like the most? Melee, Brawl or 4?
Hard to say; the further you go back in his moveset, the more Falcon it is, so are you really giving him Ganon's moveset or a slowed Captain Falcon's?

It's already been stated (and easy to see) that the collaboration it took to get all these 3rd party characters in will not be happening again. With that in mind, the only way to really proceed and keep people happy after offloading so many 3rd party characters we've gotten used to at this point would be to ensure that no character is a clone, or even a semi-clone, in the next iteration.

So why bother offloading Old Ganon's moveset at all? Especially as its more Captain Falcon's than Gannon's anyway. I get you want hypothetical discussion, but its harder to engage in hypothetical discussion when you know the liklihood is extremely low. The only point forward from 'Everyone is Here' is basically 'Everyone is Unique' and designing the next game to differentiate every 1st party character already here while introducing wholly new ones.

If you want an arbitrary answer, then it'd be Melee's because even though its exactly the same as Falcon's anyway, Melee is what the hardcore base loves to death and would drown out all dissent, so its best to cater to the loudest voice.
 
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SKX31

Smash Master
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Sweden
Bit of a side question here:

I often discuss about the idea of adding a new completely decloned Ganondorf to the game, and giving Ganondorf's old moveset to Black Shadow.
My question is, which previous version of Ganondorf is the most well regarded? Obviously, they wouldn't give him Ultimate's moveset, because he has all those sword smashes that wouldn't make sense for Black Shadow.

But like, which moveset do most people like the most? Melee, Brawl or 4?
Melee is probably the most popular Ganon movesets out of the three, and partly because he isn't as slow as molasses in that game. By contrast, Brawl and 4 Ganondorf are that slow and have more trouble approaching people as a result. Sure, those two have Flame Choke + a single kick up smash that actually beat :metaknight: 's Mach Tornado, but :ganondorfmelee: can actually keep up decently well with most characters. His only really bad matchups are :foxmelee: and :sheikmelee: because they are quick as hell and can tack on a ton of damage on him. OTOH, Melee Ganondorf does really well vs :icsmelee: because one strong hit can easily kill the partner Climber.

It's also evident in how many still play Melee Ganondorf (not just via Slippi, there are a few pros that use him). After Ultimate Ganondorf, I'd say Melee Ganondorf is the (second) most popular.

TBF to 4 Ganondorf he got some stuff there, like faster attacks compared to Brawl and more reward coming from them, it's just that his disadvantage was even worse than in Brawl. Then again, 4's universal changes did not benefit him, so maybe a 4-ish moveset could work in a different engine.

So yeah, I'd favor Melee for Black Shadow, with 4 Ganondorf as a somewhat distant second choice.
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,922
Unless Nintendo actually revives F-Zero, I think I'd rather just have a 2nd version of Ganon alongside the original over Black Shadow.
I definitely wouldn't. Ganondorf is currently the only character in the game that is a clone/semi-clone of a character from a completely different series. And that number should be 0.
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

Smash Lord
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Drenthe, NL
New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.
I'll go for 100 total but account for the echoes we already have, thus marking 9 new characters and 4 echoes.

81. Rayman
82. The Knight
83. Sol Badguy
84. Bandana Waddle Dee
85. Leon Kennedy
86. Chorus Kids
87. Dr Eggman
88. Officer Howard
89. Papyrus

27e. Morpho Knight
36e. Dixie Kong
38e. Metal Sonic
64e. Octoling
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
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I forgot to say 4 NEW echoes but I thought that was obvious
 

Pillow

Smash Lord
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Jan 20, 2013
Messages
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Location
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I definitely wouldn't. Ganondorf is currently the only character in the game that is a clone/semi-clone of a character from a completely different series. And that number should be 0.
I understand this reasoning, I just personally don't care that much. Especially now that Ganon has been decloned so much after 3 games. I like F-Zero, but it's a dead franchise and Black Shadow is a nobody. It'd be one thing if he was an echo like Dark Samus, but if he's taking Ganon's place then he wouldn't be an echo.

Melee is probably the most popular Ganon movesets out of the three, and partly because he isn't as slow as molasses in that game. By contrast, Brawl and 4 Ganondorf are that slow and have more trouble approaching people as a result. Sure, those two have Flame Choke + a single kick up smash that actually beat :metaknight: 's Mach Tornado, but :ganondorfmelee: can actually keep up decently well with most characters. His only really bad matchups are :foxmelee: and :sheikmelee: because they are quick as hell and can tack on a ton of damage on him. OTOH, Melee Ganondorf does really well vs :icsmelee: because one strong hit can easily kill the partner Climber.

It's also evident in how many still play Melee Ganondorf (not just via Slippi, there are a few pros that use him). After Ultimate Ganondorf, I'd say Melee Ganondorf is the (second) most popular.

TBF to 4 Ganondorf he got some stuff there, like faster attacks compared to Brawl and more reward coming from them, it's just that his disadvantage was even worse than in Brawl. Then again, 4's universal changes did not benefit him, so maybe a 4-ish moveset could work in a different engine.

So yeah, I'd favor Melee for Black Shadow, with 4 Ganondorf as a somewhat distant second choice.
Isn't everyone technically faster in melee? It's kind of hard to compare movesets in different games when they also come with those game's specific mechanics. Even characters that have literally the same moveset from melee feel very different in Ultimate.
 

Louie G.

Smash Hero
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Rhythm Heaven
Sometimes I wonder how people would feel about Ganondorf’s moveset if it was exactly the same but Captain Falcon was never a factor.

I’m sure people would still want him updated to be more viable and to perform more of his magic attacks, but I think as it stands he at least conveys the sheer uncontested power that he should possess as a Triforce wielder.

Obviously the context is important and I understand why people are dissatisfied with Ganondorf, but it worked out surprisingly well for how little sense Falcon -> Ganondorf makes on the surface.
 
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Firox

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
3,336
New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.
90: Crash
91: Isaac
92: Geno
93: Knuckles
94: Sceptile
95: Zero (from Megaman X)
96: Impa (from AoC)
97: Krystal
98: Monster Hunter (preferably with some Insect Glaive mixed into the moveset, could use the Kinsect as a projectile)
99: Sora
100: Master Chief

Echoes:
-Shadow (Sonic)
-Don't really care about any others

It's a sad realization that few if any of these will ever actually see the light of day (besides maybe MH and Crash) but dang I would easily drop another $60 just for another version of Ultimate with these ones added.
 
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Pillow

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Jan 20, 2013
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Melee Ganondorf is more of an Echo than Ken is.
Well then sure, I’d be fine with a black falcon echo. I’d be fine if every character had an echo. So I guess my answer to your original question would be melee? If Ganon gets even more distinct as a result then that would be even better.

The reason I said I'd prefer 2 Ganon's to Ganon + B Falcon, is that way we could have both the current slow powerhouse Ganon and a more magic based one. Smash wouldn't feel right without this version of Ganon that's extremely slow and powerful, with or without C Falcon moves.
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,922
The reason I said I'd prefer 2 Ganon's to Ganon + B Falcon, is that way we could have both the current slow powerhouse Ganon and a more magic based one.
And I'd prefer we had 2 different characters rather than the same character twice.

I'm not even very supportive of the idea of mage Ganondorf. When picture a decloned Ganondorf, I see someone similar to how he is now, but weapon focused, and with none of Falcon's moves.

That's why Hyrule Warriors Trident 'dorf is best 'dorf. A great combination of weapon attacks and shadow punches. Also is the best looking 'dorf.
 
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GothicSlenderman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
291
New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.
I would add reps from companies that have never been in Smash before and a lot of westerns to add the most diversity so

  1. Ryu Hayabusa (Koei Tecmo)
  2. Crash Bandicoot (Activision)
  3. Rayman (Ubisoft)
  4. Sora (Disney)
  5. Kratos (Sony)
  6. Ahri (Riot)
  7. A World of Warcraft rep (Blizzard)
  8. A Falcom rep
  9. Doom Slayer (Bethesda)
  10. Heavy (Valve)
  11. Sol Badguy (ARC Systems)
honorable mentions to
  1. Lara Croft (Crystal Dyanmics)
  2. Meatboy (Team Meat)
  3. Quote (Nicalis)
  4. Crypto (THQNordic)
  5. Scorpion (Warner Bros/Nearthrealm)
 

SpecterFlower

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
851
Sometimes I wonder how people would feel about Ganondorf’s moveset if it was exactly the same but Captain Falcon was never a factor.

I’m sure people would still want him updated to be more viable and to perform more of his magic attacks, but I think as it stands he at least conveys the sheer uncontested power that he should possess as a Triforce wielder.

Obviously the context is important and I understand why people are dissatisfied with Ganondorf, but it worked out surprisingly well for how little sense Falcon -> Ganondorf makes on the surface.
I think ganon shouldn't be a havy wieght, he should be an above avergae midweight with heavywieght powere, i don't think the tri
New game - if Ultimate were to have 100 fighters, who’d you add? Mind we’re at 89 if you count Echoes, Pythra and PT.

you can go for 100 numbered fighters (no echoes) or 100 total fighters (4 echoes maximum, but you can always use less)

my plan is 100 total, 96 numbered fighters + 4 echoes. Will formulate shortly.
  • Ryu Hayabusa (from Ninja Gaiden) [Koei Tecmo]
  • 2B (from NieR) [Square Enix]
  • Yuri Lowel (from Tales of) [Namco Bandai]
  • Tap Trial Girl (from Rhythm Heaven) [Nintendo]
  • Sol Badguy (from Guilty Gear) [Arc System Works]
  • Raiden (from Metal Gear Solid) [Konami]
  • Estelle Bright (from Legend of Heroes) [Nihon Falcom]
  • Adol (from Ys) [Nihon Falcom]
  • Leon Kennedy (from Resident Evil) [Capcom]
  • Dante (from Devil May cry) [Capcom]
  • Phoenix Wright (from Ace Attorney) [Capcom]
  • Monster Hunter (from Monster Hunter) [Capcom]
  • Amaterasu (from Okami) [Capcom]
  • Arle Nadga (from Puyo Puyo) [Sega]
  • Ryza (from Atelier) [Koei Tecmo]
  • Stylist (from Style Savvy) [Nintendo]
  • Pete (from Story of Seasons) [Marvelous]
  • Travis Touchdown (from No More Heroes) [Marvelous]
  • Bill Rizer and Lance Bean (from Contra) [Konami]
  • Bandanna Waddle Dee (from Kirby) [Nintendo]
  • Neku (from The World End's With You) [Square Enix]

I spent so much time on the formatting.
 
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7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,086
I think too many people are putting in faith that we'll get a big E3 character. I think that logic is going to backfire.

Smash never ends off "strong" (you know exactly what I mean by that) and it'd be odd to market your biggest characters at the end when most people were probably sold on the pack due to Steve/Sephiroth. Same goes for Banjo/Hero because after them, we got...a niche fighting game character and another FE character.

Imagine if the likes of Inkling, Daisy and Ridley were instead shown off at the last second instead of at E3. You want people to get on board earlier rather than later.

I'd keep your expectations in check.
As Mentioned, this DLC would have gone through 2 E3 Periods

Now I don't think the reveals would be as Big as Steve from Minecraft, and maybe not even Sephiroth

But they still could be exciting additions though. Bayonetta was considered an Exciting addition, it's just that she doesn't compare to Cloud, Ryu, or Mewtwo from before

These characters have to sell, both in the Pass format and separately. So I think Nintendo wants all the characters to be exciting.


---------------------------------------------

Also did you guys see this "Rumor" from Gamefaqs

Probably take this leak with a spoon full of sugar rather than a pinch of salt - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (gamespot.com)

Personally I can't believe the fact that they were developing 4 Characters at times when they were only supposed developing 1. Maybe if that was the planning of characters for the Next game, I could see it, not active development though

I do believe that there is some type of expansion, or something after Ultimate already planned after FP2. I think FP2 is the end of Base Ultimate, but I think Nintendo and Sakurai might already be planning for what comes next, especially if all the rumors about Certain characters have some merit to it. I just don't think Development is currently happening for that, but focus is on FP2
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
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As Mentioned, this DLC would have gone through 2 E3 Periods

Now I don't think the reveals would be as Big as Steve from Minecraft, and maybe not even Sephiroth

But they still could be exciting additions though. Bayonetta was considered an Exciting addition, it's just that she doesn't compare to Cloud, Ryu, or Mewtwo from before

These characters have to sell, both in the Pass format and separately. So I think Nintendo wants all the characters to be exciting.


---------------------------------------------

Also did you guys see this "Rumor" from Gamefaqs

Probably take this leak with a spoon full of sugar rather than a pinch of salt - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (gamespot.com)

Personally I can't believe the fact that they were developing 4 Characters at times when they were only supposed developing 1. Maybe if that was the planning of characters for the Next game, I could see it, not active development though

I do believe that there is some type of expansion, or something after Ultimate already planned after FP2. I think FP2 is the end of Base Ultimate, but I think Nintendo and Sakurai might already be planning for what comes next, especially if all the rumors about Certain characters have some merit to it. I just don't think Development is currently happening for that, but focus is on FP2
Have you heard about that “SUPER SMASH BROTHERS” mobile game copyright registered in 2019? I’ll pull up the quotes that reference it

maybe it could have something to do with that
 
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7NATOR

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Messages
4,086
Have you heard about that “SUPER SMASH BROTHERS” mobile game copyright registered in 2019? I’ll pull up the quotes that reference it

maybe it could have something to do with that
So I'm glad that wasn't a fever dream, because I could have sworn there was discussion about a Mobile Smash game, but I couldn't find the quotes from this site. It would be swell if you did pull them up.

As for whether it has to do with After Ultimate, or even this "Rumor"

I could see it being a Compliment to whatever This New and/or Expanded Smash game is, but I don't see the Mobile game being the only new thing. I do think they will get a Separate developer to make a Mobile Smash game, because that would be really good in branching out the Smash I.P to bigger audiences, which would be good for the I.P in the long run
 

SKX31

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Isn't everyone technically faster in melee? It's kind of hard to compare movesets in different games when they also come with those game's specific mechanics. Even characters that have literally the same moveset from melee feel very different in Ultimate.
Yes, it's difficult to compare them between games because they come with their game's mechanics - that said, Ultimate Falcon is statistically faster than Melee Falcon just based on sheer numbers, and the same goes for Fox. Here's a comparision in run speed, sorted by the top of each game.

Everyone in Melee who runs at above 1,5:

Melee.png


Everyone in Ultimate who runs at around 2 and up:

Ult.png


Ganondorf ranks 21st in terms of Dash speed in Melee (5th worst), 85th in Ultimate (4th worst). Melee 'Dorf sprints at a 1.35 clip, Ultimate Ganondorf runs at 1.34. They're pretty much tied.

Now, Ultimate is faster natively, with more characters crossing that 2. threshold - so (almost) everyone is technically faster in Ultimate. But Melee feels faster because of the various mechanics in place. Melee's stuff is also extremely difficult to learn partly because of the lack of buffer. In Melee, you have to be frame-perfect to even perform stuff - even something as simple as dashing ****ing backwards instantly. It's a major reason why controller-modding is a thing amongst Melee players, and it's understandably a turn off for most people. But those willing to invest the time in Melee gain access to a free-flowing movement system that makes its players feel like they're going ****ing SSJ4 on their opponents. It's that rewarding.

So free-flowing in fact that the advanced techniques speed up the game tremedously. Such as Edge-cancelling aerials: by landing with an aerial just near the edge and slipping down before the move ends naturally you can cancel an aerial's landing lag in 64 and Melee, and thus instantly use another aerial. It's far from the only advanced tech - wavedashing is iconic to Melee partly because it's extremely versatile; it's useful for both offensive pressure and defensive spacing.

So yeah, it's hard to compare them, but I'd argue that one could take Melee Ganondorf, modify him some to fit the next game, and then give the end result to Black Shadow and you'd be fine. Perhaps not all the mechanics, but at least the general sense of game speed could suit Black Shadow, because it honestly would translate well to how Black Shadow would want to play - crushing his opponent quickly.

Edit: Forgot to mention that there are some stuff in Melee that are naturally fast too, such as characters retaining their speed while jumping. I'd say Ultimate has a lot of native, if relatively simple, speed though.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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It was written as “SUPER SMASH BROTHERS” or “SMASH BROTHERS” iirc. It wasn’t abbreviated as Bros. Also I’m 99% sure the trademark was registered in 2019, and had something denoting it was for mobile devices
^ this is what I’m referring to. I don’t have the actual link on me so if anyone does...
So I'm glad that wasn't a fever dream, because I could have sworn there was discussion about a Mobile Smash game, but I couldn't find the quotes from this site. It would be swell if you did pull them up.

As for whether it has to do with After Ultimate, or even this "Rumor"

I could see it being a Compliment to whatever This New and/or Expanded Smash game is, but I don't see the Mobile game being the only new thing. I do think they will get a Separate developer to make a Mobile Smash game, because that would be really good in branching out the Smash I.P to bigger audiences, which would be good for the I.P in the long run
 
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MooMew64

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I know this conversation happened waaaay earlier, but now that I'm home from work, I'd like to throw my opinion into the ring:

Do Mii Costumes, Assist Trophies, and Spirits deconfirm? In my humble opinion: Yes, Yes, and and depends on the timing.

There ya go, there's the post. :pichumelee:

...Okay, in all sincerity, I believe things like Mii Costumes and Spirits depend on the timing: Rex was most likely only in consideration for Sakurai and Nintendo because the Rex costume's inclusion was more than likely decided pretty early on in development as an incentive to purchase FP1. When negotiations for FP2 started, it gave them the opportunity to look back at Rex and XB2 and go "Huh, y'know, that game was popular and there was a pretty vocal outcry against the Mii Costume. Maybe Rex would be a good fit, now that the timing is right". However, in the end, Pyra and Mythra were chosen because of the technical complications trying to work Pyra in with Rex would bring.

Now, does this mean every Mii Costume ever is back on the table? Not really, no. Rex was under a very specific and fortunate circumstance that, ironically enough, didn't even benefit him in the end. Mii Costumes added in a currently ongoing pass most likely will not feature as playable characters in said same pass in my opinion, as I do not see the business sense in that: If you already had content coming in the form of a playable fighter, why would you include said fighter as a costume for another fighter if said character was coming in the imminent future? The logic that it would "fake fans out" isn't very convincing to me, because I honest to goodness doubt Nintendo marketing executives care about messing around with communities like us that, when compared to the actual install base of Smash, is microscopic and not at all on their larger radar. The speculation scene is but a blip in the bigger blue water market ocean: Our opinions and speculation really don't impact or matter as much as a few of us would like to believe, so no, I don't buy it would be done as a specific way to reveal a character via fake-outs and mysteries. Nintendo doesn't operate like that: They are super clear and to the point when they are selling you something. Nintendo wouldn't sell you a chocolate cake and then go "Surprise, it's vanilla!", they'd sell you the chocolate cake and then give you vanilla frosting as a compliment. Would certain characters become viable again if a Pass 3 was announced? I wouldn't see a reason to say no, as there wouldn't be any good reason why a costume considered and planned for a previous project plan would impact a completely brand new one, but that isn't the situation we're dealing with here with the characters we're discussing and the most likely scenario Smash Ultimate is sunsetting with FP11.

Spirits have been talked to death and I don't think there's much more I can add about them myself. I think what I wrote about Mii Costumes can be applied here as well: It depends on the timing. Base game Spirits? Sure, they're in the running: Min Min and Pyra prove that! Post-game events? That's where I become doubtful.

Assist Trophies are a pie-in-the-sky want from this fandom. Look, believe me, I get it: I'm a huge Waluigi supporter, I'm bummed he got snubbed again too, but the reason so many people treat it like a deconfirm and caution hyping and tin-foil hatting is because we have multiple pieces of information from Sakurai himself and from the way ATs work period that imply that Nintendo considers that representation enough. Could that be broken? Anything is possible, but all I'll say is that there isn't much evidence to show that it will, meaning I personally wouldn't expect it and I would advise responsible hyping.

Also, since this topic also came up: Don't be so concerned about being "right" or "wrong" about Smash speculation: Just have fun with it! Most people here are here because of the community aspect and comradery that comes with have mutual interests and passions. If you're getting hung up on speculating for brownie points and "LOOK AT ME, I'M SO SMART" attitudes, then I don't think you really understand the point of why most are here, and I'd really advise against it. It kinda kills the fun.
 

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Rie Sonomura

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I think I may have found it

Official - Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion | Page 427 | Smashboards

Though Honestly I could have sworn it was a different logo, but yeah it was apparently filed on August 2nd of 2019, and there was some telephone stuff in there as you can see from few of the comments below
I get this when I click that link now:
2D080D95-52C1-4736-9C4E-7F445BF25312.png

seems like a 404 not found

however it’s A andree123 who claimed they saw stuff about “telephone”. If you’re there, what exactly did you see?
 
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