Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Michael the Spikester]

So what do you guys think is more likely for the last two fighter reveals?

April (CP10) and June/E3 (CP11)

Or a double reveal at June/E3 of CP10 and CP11?

Honestly thinking the latter tbh. Because Pyra & Mythra will come out in March and then from there will be 3 months until the reveal of the last two. E3 has also been doing double reveals since.

 

[Schnee117]

Summon swords?!

Nah it's all about summoning lawn chairs now

 

[Shroob]

So what do you guys think is more likely for the last two fighter reveals?

April (CP10) and June/E3 (CP11)

Or a double reveal at June/E3 of CP10 and CP11?

Honestly thinking the latter tbh. Because Pyra & Mythra will come out in March and then from there will be 3 months until the reveal of the last two. E3 has also been doing double reveals since.

I'd like an April or May reveal, but I'm kinda on the boat of June and September tbh.

 

[PSIGuy]

I wonder if they'd really reveal the end of the Fighter's Pass in one go with a double reveal at E3. Would be nice to finally be free but it also means they miss out on all that tasty attention that keeps the game relevant.

 

[Shroob]

I wonder if they'd really reveal the end of the Fighter's Pass in one go with a double reveal at E3. Would be nice to finally be free but it also means they miss out on all that tasty attention that keeps the game relevant.

I kinda doubt it'll happen, but that attention will end one day regardless, either at E3, or the Direct that unveils CP11.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I wonder if they'd really reveal the end of the Fighter's Pass in one go with a double reveal at E3. Would be nice to finally be free but it also means they miss out on all that tasty attention that keeps the game relevant.

Unless on the off-chance FP3 gets announced during Pyra's and Mythra's presentation. That or an Echo Pack.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Unless on the off-chance FP3 gets announced during Pyra's and Mythra's presentation. That or an Echo Pack.

OR additional individual DLC

 

[Michael the Spikester]

OR additional individual DLC

I think its all or nothing during the presentation. If we don't get such an announcement, I don't think we're getting either of the three.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

So what do you guys think is more likely for the last two fighter reveals?

April (CP10) and June/E3 (CP11)

Or a double reveal at June/E3 of CP10 and CP11?

Honestly thinking the latter tbh. Because Pyra & Mythra will come out in March and then from there will be 3 months until the reveal of the last two. E3 has also been doing double reveals since.

I think May and June is more likely, but it depends on when the next fighter happens and when a midyear direct happens. I do think were getting an E3-adjacent direct to cover the rest of the year and probably a fighter with it, but if the direct happens slightly later I could see a Sakurai presents being necessary to reveal fighter 10.

I could also see June and August/September if fighter 10 happens in June. I don't really think both characters will be revealed at the same time.

 

[Shroob]

I think its all or nothing during the presentation. If we don't get such an announcement, I don't think we're getting either of the three.

That's a hell of a statement to make when we're still only on the 4th character, with 2 left.

 

[Idon]

As far as video-game types go, I'd say we're missing the "Samurai" archetype.

Unfortunately, the notable ones... don't exactly have a snowball's chance in hell.

(Adam Williams, Flynn, Haohmaru, Wolf, Takamaru, Lyn)

 

[Garteam]

Earlier today, I had a dream that Hank Hill was revealed as FP10.

That's all. To with this what you will.

 

[Goombaic]

As far as video-game types go, I'd say we're missing the "Samurai" archetype.

Unfortunately, the notable ones... don't exactly have a snowball's chance in hell.
View attachment 304256View attachment 304257View attachment 304258View attachment 304259View attachment 304261
(Adam Williams, Flynn, Haohmaru, Wolf, Takamaru)

Not including Mitsurugi in this list is the biggest insult I've seen.

Probably because he has a decent chance so he wouldn't fit your point. (:

 

[3BitSaurus]

Look, I love Rayman and I'd say he's my most wanted platformer character with Banjo and Kazooie in the game.

I just don't see him making it. Others have pretty much covered my points already, but being obscure in Japan is a hard hit against him, especially for what might be an E3 reveal and then literally the DLC pack that Ultimate is supposed to end on.

Also, the people dismissing the Brawlhalla thing are skipping over the context of his presence in there. It's not the same as Terry in EX Layer or Snake and Simon being in that weird Japan-only Konami brawler that came out even before Brawl.

Rayman is coming to Brawlhalla on November 6th! pic.twitter.com/EbziS7Jy7Y

— Brawlhalla (@Brawlhalla) September 2, 2018

Rayman was added to Brawlhalla on November 6th, 2018... about a week after he was revealed as a Spirit in the November 1st Direct (he was originally announced on the 2nd, a day after, too). Which means that, if Ubisoft tried to negotiate for him in Smash before then (like they did by sending the trophy model back in 4), they were denied some time before that date.

And Brawlhalla isn't just a random crossover game - its creator, Blue Mammoth, had joined Ubisoft as a subsidiary that same year.

So yes, it very much felt like Ubi had failed in their negotiations (which likely extended up to Volume 1 DLC) and went "**** it, we have a studio with a decently-sized platform fighter, let's put him in there".

Now, obviously, all of this means **** for Volume 2... but if Ray hasn't made it by now, I doubt he'll be among our last reveals.

(Sincerely, a Rayman fan since Rayman 2)

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think May and June is more likely, but it depends on when the next fighter happens and when a midyear direct happens. I do think were getting an E3-adjacent direct to cover the rest of the year and probably a fighter with it, but if the direct happens slightly later I could see a Sakurai presents being necessary to reveal fighter 10.

I could also see June and August/September if fighter 10 happens in June. I don't really think both characters will be revealed at the same time.

We're definitely getting one of the reveals at E3, we've been getting them since Ultimate began. So May can be crossed off.

That's a hell of a statement to make when we're still only on the 4th character, with 2 left.

I kind of base it off how it was revealed with Terry having been the fourth fighter in the first Pass.

 

[DevaAshera]

People comparing Rayman to Spyro are kind of missing the point. Just like Mega Man to NES fans, Sonic to Genesis fans, and Cloud to PS1 fans, Rayman has his own era where he was huge. Rayman 1 was big, 2 was big, 3 was big, and hell even Origins and Legends were big.

You can’t just wave off characters because they’re not relevant on the DAY that we’re discussing them. And I mean Rayman has like 3 mobile games that are apparently killing it right now all over the world so really Rayman is as relevant as he’s ever been and as popular as he’s ever been.

Rayman was never as big as any of those characters though. You seldom heard him even being brought up that much even back then.

Well the "teleport while slashing" part, yes. I meant moreso the precise "cut, put sword away, cut again" type motion.

Rapid multi-slashing is a pretty common thing a lot of characters have put a spin on nowadays.

Ah, my mistake, I thought you meant the teleports. I sadly can't think of any like Iaido practionioners that seem that likely as candidates.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Earlier today, I had a dream that Hank Hill was revealed as FP10.

That's all. To with this what you will.

Did he come with a Tom Anderson echo?

 

[Deleted member]

I’m kind of 1/3 on this crappy FP2 template I posted a while back lmao. What if I’m right but in a monkey’s paw sort of way. Lloyd and Rean are coming next watch out!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

We're definitely getting one of the reveals at E3, we've been getting them since Ultimate began. So May can be crossed off.

I kind of base it off how it was revealed with Terry having been the fourth fighter in the first Pass.

To be fair the announcement of more can also happen with the fifth character. Just sayin cause Terry was also the penultimate in pass 1

 

[Garteam]

Did he come with a Tom Anderson echo?

No, but I'm assuming he'll be the basis for Tom's spirit battle when the Beavis and Butthead spirit event happens.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

As far as video-game types go, I'd say we're missing the "Samurai" archetype.

Unfortunately, the notable ones... don't exactly have a snowball's chance in hell.

(Adam Williams, Flynn, Haohmaru, Wolf, Takamaru)

And for his neutral special, Flynn wields a gun.

 

[N3ON]

So what do you guys think is more likely for the last two fighter reveals?

April (CP10) and June/E3 (CP11)

Or a double reveal at June/E3 of CP10 and CP11?

Honestly thinking the latter tbh. Because Pyra & Mythra will come out in March and then from there will be 3 months until the reveal of the last two. E3 has also been doing double reveals since.

Of those, the latter. I think expecting anything between P&M and June will lead to disappointment.

View attachment 304266
I’m kind of 1/3 on this crappy FP2 template I posted a while back lmao. What if I’m right but in a monkey’s paw sort of way. Lloyd and Rean are coming next watch out!

Funny enough this is how some people view anime swordsmen.

 

[Shroob]

We're definitely getting one of the reveals at E3, we've been getting them since Ultimate began. So May can be crossed off.

I kind of base it off how it was revealed with Terry having been the fourth fighter in the first Pass.

You're kinda also forgetting that Terry was the 2nd to last fighter in the pass.

This pass has 6 characters, FP1 had 5. Hell, FP2's 5th character will be the June one presuming we don't get CP10 between now and E3.

 

[Idon]

Not including Mitsurugi in this list is the biggest insult I've seen.

Probably because he's the most likely one so he wouldn't fit your point. (:

Well also he's also not exactly the obvious pick for a Soul Calibur rep. 2 Big men with even bigger swords stand in his way.

And if I wanted to include samurai characters that weren't the obvious choice, I'd pick my new favorite.

 

[SharkLord]

View attachment 304266
I’m kind of 1/3 on this crappy FP2 template I posted a while back lmao. What if I’m right but in a monkey’s paw sort of way. Lloyd and Rean are coming next watch out!

Two Trails packs in a row is a risky prediction, but sure, why not

 

[Speed Weed]

As far as video-game types go, I'd say we're missing the "Samurai" archetype.

Unfortunately, the notable ones... don't exactly have a snowball's chance in hell.
View attachment 304256View attachment 304257View attachment 304258View attachment 304259View attachment 304261
(Adam Williams, Flynn, Haohmaru, Wolf, Takamaru)

God ****ing dammit, I want all of them

 

[Pillow]

As far as video-game types go, I'd say we're missing the "Samurai" archetype.

Unfortunately, the notable ones... don't exactly have a snowball's chance in hell.
View attachment 304256View attachment 304257View attachment 304258View attachment 304259View attachment 304261
(Adam Williams, Flynn, Haohmaru, Wolf, Takamaru)

Sephiroth does wield a giant ass katana, even if he's missing the armor.

And I'd say Wolf has a small chance, as the main character FromSoftware's most recent game.

Well also he's also not exactly the obvious pick for a Soul Calibur rep. 2 Big men with even bigger swords stand in his way.

And if I wanted to include samurai characters that weren't the obvious choice, I'd pick my new favorite.
View attachment 304267

Baiken's still the cooler GG japanese sword character.

 

[ZenythSmash]

Alright.

I sure can't wait for Myra's presentation.

Ditto
HE'S IN

 

[Lamperouge]

So what do you guys think is more likely for the last two fighter reveals?

April (CP10) and June/E3 (CP11)

Or a double reveal at June/E3 of CP10 and CP11?

Honestly thinking the latter tbh. Because Pyra & Mythra will come out in March and then from there will be 3 months until the reveal of the last two. E3 has also been doing double reveals since.

CP10 in June and then CP11 in August/September.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Look, I love Rayman and I'd say he's my most wanted platformer character with Banjo and Kazooie in the game.

I just don't see him making it. Others have pretty much covered my points already, but being obscure in Japan is a hard hit against him, especially for what might be an E3 reveal and then literally the DLC pack that Ultimate is supposed to end on.

Also, the people dismissing the Brawlhalla thing are skipping over the context of his presence in there. It's not the same as Terry in EX Layer or Snake and Simon being in that weird Japan-only Konami brawler that came out even before Brawl.

Rayman is coming to Brawlhalla on November 6th! pic.twitter.com/EbziS7Jy7Y

— Brawlhalla (@Brawlhalla) September 2, 2018

Rayman was added to Brawlhalla on November 6th, 2018... about a week after he was revealed as a Spirit in the November 1st Direct (he was originally announced on the 2nd, a day after, too). Which means that, if Ubisoft tried to negotiate for him in Smash before then (like they did by sending the trophy model back in 4), they were denied some time before that date.

And Brawlhalla isn't just a random crossover game - its creator, Blue Mammoth, had joined Ubisoft as a subsidiary that same year.

So yes, it very much felt like Ubi had failed in their negotiations (which likely extended up to Volume 1 DLC) and went "**** it, we have a studio with a decently-sized platform fighter, let's put him in there".

Now, obviously, all of this means **** for Volume 2... but if Ray hasn't made it by now, I doubt he'll be among our last reveals.

(Sincerely, a Rayman fan since Rayman 2)

Brawlhalla arguement in the year 2021

 

[Idon]

Sephiroth does wield a giant ass katana, even if he's missing the armor.

True... but he's not exactly what I'd first consider.
Otherwise I'd have to consider this dude for "samurai" too and I don't exactly think he slots in there.

Spoiler

He's clearly a dragonball character

 

[Arcanir]

Remember, Japan's taste in characters differs from ours, Samus' Other M writing being seen as strong in Japan but disgraceful in the West.

Bit of a nitpick, but it's less that they see it as strong, and more that they're not as... hostile on it, for the lack of a better term. Legends of Localization took a look at opinions on the game and they're pretty much more muted versions of what's already been said in the west (her voice acting was mediocre, her character felt weaker compared to previous games, etc.). The only noted difference seems to come down to her relationship with Adam, which is hated in the west, but doesn't seem to garner the same complaints in Japan.

So at best it's seen as mediocre if even that, at least based on the vocal fanbase over there.

As far as video-game types go, I'd say we're missing the "Samurai" archetype.

Unfortunately, the notable ones... don't exactly have a snowball's chance in hell.
View attachment 304256View attachment 304257View attachment 304258View attachment 304259View attachment 304261View attachment 304270
(Adam Williams, Flynn, Haohmaru, Wolf, Takamaru)

I'd love to have Flynn. Demi-Fiend would probably take precedence over him due to SMTIII being more popular, but SMTIV was my first game in the franchise so I'd like to see him in Smash.

I'd also like to see Lyn, it's really unfortunate that her high popularity wasn't noticed in time to really make a change for her in Smash.

 

[SKX31]

Best thing about speculation is that everyone is shrodingering right and wrong until they’re proven right or wrong.

Looking them up by name might help RJungle Run, Rayman Fiesta Run, Rayman Adventures, and Rayman Mini

All right, lets put them through the Sensor Tower test / wood chipper:

Okay, the keywords are hilarious. WTF does Rovio have to do with Rayman?

OTOH, Fiesta Run, Jungle Run and Mini seem to have died off by now, although it's understandable in the former cases since they're older. Jungle Run got a D, both Fiesta Run and Mini Fs (all three with <5K downloads this month). However, Sensor Tower bases things on the current month, so the test can only tell is current day popularity and longevity. Still, it's safe to say that Adventures did pretty well globally, and while the other games don't seem to have done as well, it's safe to say that at least one of the games did well. Which counts in the end.

Next, I looked up the review totals for Adventures specifically (the other games don't come close to Adventures' review numbers. the other games "only" reach 10Kish reviews it seems). Here's the most common review languages:

1. Spanish (61K reviews)
2. English (51K)
3. Portuguese (44K)
4. Russian (38K)
5. French (21K)
6. Polish (11K)
7. German (9K)
8. Italian (8K)
9. Arabic (7K)
10. Indonesian (6K)
....

24. Danish (188 reviews)
25. Japanese (158 reviews).

Now that's a decent illustration of the Japan problem. While I don't believe Japan is solely central to DLC picks, it nevertheless plays a main part in the selection. Sure, some Japanese may have written in English... but really, how many?

 

[Deleted member]

True... but he's not exactly what I'd first consider.
Otherwise I'd have to consider this dude for "samurai" too and I don't exactly think he slots in there.
View attachment 304271

Spoiler

He's clearly a dragonball character
View attachment 304272

Whenever I see Eight I just think "Boomerang Goku" and it's too late for me to change that now.

 

[GaroMaster]

I think I speak for a lot of Rayman fans when our primary reason for supporting him isn't because he's the biggest name or that he's even the biggest omission from the roster.

We just want Rayman because he's goofy, unique, and his games kick ass.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Brawlhalla arguement in the year 2021

...Instead of answering with a one-liner, you could try to refute what I said, you know.

Now that's a decent illustration of the Japan problem. While I don't believe Japan is solely central to DLC picks, it nevertheless plays a main part in the selection. Sure, some Japanese may have written in English... but really, how many?

Hmm, yeah, that seems like a good way to put some more data to that argument. It's kinda hard for me to see them revealing a pick without much pull in Japan at E3, unless it's a double reveal of some sort. And I especially don't see a western-centric pick being last, as both of our western characters were revealed early on during their respective volumes.

 

[MMXZero]

With Japan's lack of interest in western games, it could just be that the Smash team looked up Assassin's Creed, saw Altair was the first protagonist, and didn't even bother to see if there was anyone more popular.

Doubtful since Ezio appeared in SoulCalibur V. There is a very good chance that Nintendo didn't really care which character was represented since the general public, myself included only see the main characters from Assassin's Creed as some generic assassin guy. With that in mind, Nintendo probably sees the Mii costume as a way to represent the entire franchise instead of a single game or character.

 

[Idon]

I'd love to have Flynn. Demi-Fiend would probably take precedence over him due to SMTIII being more popular, but SMTIV was my first game in the franchise so I'd like to see him in Smash.

I'd also like to see Lyn, it's really unfortunate that her high popularity wasn't noticed in time to really make a change for her in Smash.

Either of them would be fine for me.
Demi-fiend would fulfill the magical monk berserker type of combat while Flynn would have the samurai sword mixed with gunplay and magic. Both of them also have access to demon summoning if Sakurai ever decides that's a niche that needs filling.

And y'know me, Lyn fan for as long as I could wrap my hands around a controller. Shame she'll be eternally passed over in favor of the most recent characters.

Unfortunate then, that neither of those characters seem exactly likely. I can only hope the next Fire Emblem game has a protagonist that appeals deeply to me and isn't subplanted by the avatar character.

 

[Ivander]

And y'know me, Lyn fan for as long as I could wrap my hands around a controller. Shame she'll be eternally passed over in favor of the most recent characters.

At least, unless the FE6/7 remake releases at the right time.

 

[MrMcNuts]

I think I speak for a lot of Rayman fans when our primary reason for supporting him isn't because he's the biggest name or that he's even the biggest omission from the roster.

We just want Rayman because he's goofy, unique, and his games kick ass.

View attachment 304274

Same, I know I can't change minds in here since people here are gonna hold onto the "not popular in Japan" arguement till he makes it in a smash game, I just mainly debate stuff that's straight up false like not many want him in or he isn't actually a gaming icon. Other than that people are free to think what they want.

...Instead of answering with a one-liner, you could try to refute what I said, you know.

No need to try cause it's common sense that showing up in a ubisoft owned game in 2018 factually has no impact on his chances of being dlc in a different game 3 years later