Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[N3ON]

Now that internet know what is to discuss the designs of Pyra/Mythra. We have been doing that for years, or at least in the early Ultimate speculation period.

Were people this ****** with Bayo? At the least there is more to Pyra/Mythra than sex appeal sheesh

People weren't critical of Bayo's design but they thought it might not be the best fit for Smash, in part due to her crazy proportions, which got changed in-game.

The bigger sticking point, however, was a character that gets pretty naked when attacking and has a gun strapped to each limb wouldn't work in Smash. Or would need major alterations to the point the character was compromised.

And to be fair, both sides were kind of right on that one. Obviously she's there and obviously she's Bayo, but she did experience her fair share of alterations to "fit" Smash.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

They are. But i would argue Chun li's design helps inform us about her character, her play style and her heritage. It all meshes together into an informative character. Helps also that she has a personality also.

I mean you dont have to, but yes that does add a lot to the character when it helps.
I dont think a majority of Fate characters are designed in mind like that yet they can get like a million r-18 doujins a daily average, male or female.

 

[Dyamanttine]

Oh yeah Kirby too, a creature from the total darkness born of destruction and chaos, he can be anyone he wants and still look cute.

 

[Shroob]

I don't agree with this image really, but a lot of times, it feels like "Another anime swordsman?!" sounds more like "Another anime swordsman I didn't ask for?!"

 

[Commander_Alph]

I mean you dont have to, but yes that does add a lot to the character when it helps.
I dont think a majority of Fate characters are designed in mind like that yet they can get like a million r-18 doujins a daily average, male or female.

Yeah, I mean it's not like the devs make Garon to be a dom dad in someone fan fiction

 

[drag0nscythe]

I mean you dont have to, but yes that does add a lot to the character when it helps.
I dont think a majority of Fate characters are designed in mind like that yet they can get like a million r-18 doujins a daily average, male or female.

When designed for fanservice, doujins will follow. I think it all ultimately ends up on the product being made and its overall message.

 

[N3ON]

The thing about anime swordsmen is when you look at the landscape of Japanese gaming, they're prevalent enough that if you don't specifically go out of your way to exclude them, which Smash doesn't, you'll end up including a lot just via the sheer volume of what's out there.

It's the same with western characters and gun-wielders.

 

[SKX31]

America, Japan, why do they get so much focus all the time? Yeah big markets, sure. And Nintendo is Japanese and all...

But nobody ever asks what Africa wants.

...that's because most of Africa wants political stability and food, and does not give two ****s who appears in Smash.

First of all: Africa's a continent. It's next to impossible to generalize because of this: things are noticeably different between regions and countries.

From what I know, there's a surprisingly large group of mobile players there, and there have been console competitions in the continent. For example, Street Fighter shared the same tournament space as Candy Crush:

FEJA [2018], which took place in Abidjan [Ivory Coast, West Africa] from 23-25 November, is the largest, most representative video game event in Africa, in terms of the number of countries represented and the almost 40 pro gamers flying in from across the continent.

The eSports tournaments are crowd-pullers with 13 million francs CFA in prize money ($22,500) for tournaments for FIFA, Street Fighter, Fortnite and Candy Crush, but despite the prize fund, the second FEJA has a purely business aim: job creation for the video games industry.

Yes, consoles have found their way there too. Not in huge numbers, but Rome was not built in one day.

But Pillow has a point. Political instability and inconsistent access to the internet does a lot of harm, whether we're talking Egypt or we're talking South Africa:

The region still has some growing pains to resolve such as a lack of widespread accessibility and affordable broadband internet, aggressive electrical power cuts in some regions, and having to pay almost double the MSRP (manufacturer suggested retail price) for physical copies of video games. However, in spite of all this, gamers are just as passionate about the medium, and it continues to grow.

The mobile gaming market over here is exploding for various reasons. The general populace has access to fairly powerful mobile phones that can play games like Fortnite, PUBG, Candy Crush, and Clash of Clans. Multiple game developers have even made and are making successful video games capitalizing on this market that has gone mostly unnoticed by the big western publishers.

For the hardcore gamers, local gaming conventions and esports events are popping up and growing across the continent. Niaccon in Kenya and rAge Expo in South Africa are examples of events that have grown exponentially with each annual iteration.

Most African video game devs are focusing on mobile because of the relative ease of access, such as Weza Interactive based in Kenya. This is just an embyro, but the seeds have been planted firmly. Kenya is also relatively stable, which is a major plus for this studio's (and other studios based in the region) future.

In short: Don't expect Africa to become a major market for Nintendo any time soon mostly because, well, Nintendo doesn't have much of a presence outside of South Africa. While Switches are no doubt imported to the continent, they're not imported in large numbers due to the above factors. Still, there's an embyro there, and we'll know if Nintendo feels comfortable with expanding their reach over to more countries on that continent.

To be fair, I'm not sure if Nintendo even sells their stuff in Africa. Well, most of it, at least. I think NoE handles South Africa, and but that's the extent of my knowledge.

Actually, does Nintendo sell stuff in Africa? I'm honestly kinda curious.

Nintendo has a website for South Africa, yes, and they sell in that country. They don't sell millions of units there, but IIRC it's a consistent presence. I don't think we have a South African member here, or do we?

How about a slight deviation: What are your favorite character designs in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?

Um, shouldn't you have edited your post?

Anyway: I think my favorite's Dedede just because of how goddamned expressive he is. Shame he feels a tad too imbalanced: his crouch is the best of all time.

 

[Inue Houji]

Do you think Pyra and Mythra will be clones/semi-clones?

I hope they are.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Ivysaur’s design goes unappreciated in general. Who doesn’t love a cute little plant dinosaur? It’s mostly because it’s a middle evo Pokémon, but still. It’s a shame too because among starters, I actually like the middle evolution the most for a lot of them. Ivysaur, Quilava, Croconaw, Grovyle, and every Gen 8 starter.

 

[Perkilator]

Do you think Pyra and Mythra will be clones/semi-clones?

I hope they are.

I think we should wait until Sakurai's Presentation to really determine that.

 

[Pillow]

The thing about anime swordsmen is when you look at the landscape of Japanese gaming, they're prevalent enough that if you don't specifically go out of your way to exclude them, which Smash doesn't, you'll end up including a lot just via the sheer volume of what's out there.

It's the same with western characters and gun-wielders.

That makes sense and all, but how is it that we didn't get a single character with a Japanese sword until Sephiroth? It's not like Fire Emblem didn't have an option for that either!

First of all: Africa's a continent. It's next to impossible to generalize because of this: things are noticeably different between regions and countries.

From what I know, there's a surprisingly large group of mobile players there, and there have been console competitions in the continent. For example, Street Fighter shared the same tournament space as Candy Crush:



Yes, consoles have found their way there too. Not in huge numbers, but Rome was not built in one day.

But Pillow has a point. Political instability and inconsistent access to the internet does a lot of harm, whether we're talking Egypt or we're talking South Africa:

I made a followup post addressing the continent thing. The main takeaway though, is from a business perspective, it makes sense why Nintendo does not really care too much about disappointing it's relatively small African market.

 

[Faso115]

So, any brave soul wanna guess the weight values for Pyra/Mythra? I think Pyra will be a heavyweight lol

 

[SneakyLink]

Do you think Pyra and Mythra will be clones/semi-clones?

I hope they are.

The two are considered separate fighters on the official website, so it's likely a / situation where both play differently.

 

[Shroob]

So, any brave soul wanna guess the weight values for Pyra/Mythra? I think Pyra will be a heavyweight lol

Didn't your mum ever tell you it's not nice to talk about a lady's weight?

 

[Inue Houji]

That makes sense and all, but how is it that we didn't get a single character with a Japanese sword until Sephiroth?

Because all of the swordfighters in the game are from fictional countries, not Japan.
European-like settings are much more common in JRPGs than Japanese ones.

 

[SpecterFlower]

those are both super early in the game. Pull up a cutscene from later and rex is a lot more experienced and doesnt just run forward and hit. As the game goes on he does more crazy stuff.

Also mythra cannot float or teleport, the "teleport"is foresight and the float is a jump. Rex actually used foresight several times which is shown first in this cutscene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9-rUHc_DtE and he is also seen in the air with mythra/pyra those are just jumps, mythra and pyra grant powers to rex through their link

in smash she does. but it fit's her character. Mythra's forward specials is clearly some form of teleportation, however it's logical for the aegis to do it whereas rex isn't special on his own, he would essentially hold back pyra and mythra, the character would be slower and probably less fun, i think i's better they included them on their own, even though i like rex better than most.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

In terms of other Smash designs I really dig, Greninja is probably one of the coolest designs for a Pokemon period. I can see why it tops so many popularity polls.

It's a ninja frog, for pete's sake. The tongue scarf in particular really takes it up a notch.

 

[Pillow]

The two are considered separate fighters on the official website, so it's likely a / situation where both play differently.

Well...they're distinct characters for sure but they probably don't play nearly as differently as Sheik/Zelda or Pkmn Trainer. The trailer makes it look like Pyra is kill stance and Mythra is speed stance but they probably have similar normals.

Because all of the swordfighters in the game are from fictional countries, not Japan.
European-like settings are much more common in JRPGs than Japanese ones.

Yes I understand this, but it's not like Japanese sword wielding characters aren't prevalent in gaming, or JRPG's specifically. Even Fire Emblem had Lyn as an option.

 

[Wunderwaft]

monster hunter music being listed internally alongside franchises with playable characters

To elaborate more on this, I asked my friend @Tougon before on how this works and he gave a detailed explanation. I'll copy paste his explanation here.

BGM filenames are formatted with a 1 to 2 character code denoting franchise, followed by the source game, and (Japanese) song title. In Brawl, the code for each franchise was a single letter, A-Z. Pac-Man and Mega Man also follow this standard, with Mega Man taking the code previously occupied by Metal Gear (S) and Pac-Man taking the unoccupied V. Mario and the misc categories also has so many songs that starting in Ultimate, Mario songs use the codes A and AA, and Misc uses R and RR. The codes Q and R were used in Brawl for Retro Nintendo, and Miscelaneous Nintendo, respectively. All Nintendo franchises added in Smash 4 have their music put under Q or R. For example, Duck Hunt and Punch-Out music not from Punch-Out Wii are under Q, while Xenoblade, Wii Fit, and Punch-Out Wii go under R. Animal Crossing already had its own section in Brawl, that being N.

Starting with DLC third party franchises in Smash 4, the letter codes started to be phased out because there aren't enough letters in the alphabet to keep using this standard. Here are all the franchises that use abnormal codes:
AD - Castlevania (based on the Japanese title of Akumajou Dracula)
AM - ARMS
BK - Banjo-Kazooie
BY - Bayonetta
CRS - Smash 4
CRS2 - Smash Ultimate (In Brawl, Smash original music was split into several categories.)
DQ - Dragon Quest
FF - Final Fantasy
GD - All SNK Music (based on the Japanese name for Fatal Fury, Garou Densetsu)
MC - Minecraft
MG - Metal Gear (Interestingly, all numbers are identical to Brawl's data, including the gaps for the cut MGS Main Theme)
MH - Monster Hunter
PS - Persona
SF - Street Fighter
SP - Splatoon

Megalovania, Floral Fury, and other third party songs in Other are filed under R. This makes Monster Hunter the only third party franchise to not have a playable character to follow the naming convention.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Do you think Pyra and Mythra will be clones/semi-clones?

I hope they are.

It wouldn't surprise me if they shared animations and had different knockback values/directions. We've see Mythra combo d-tilt into an aerial, but we haven't seen Pyra do that. It wouldn't surprise me if Pyra's was more of a get-off-me move, even if they looked the same.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Yeah, I mean it's not like the devs make Garon to be a dom dad in someone fan fiction

i meant the fate series but lol

 

[ahemtoday]

How about a slight deviation: What are your favorite character designs in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?

That's a tricky question to answer for me in a lot of games, but SSBU proves especially challenging because the characters in it weren't designed with the same philosophy. In particular, they have varying levels of subtlety in terms of how clearly they are a specific thing. You have characters like Greninja (a frog ninja that cleverly combines those two traits with a tongue that looks like a scarf) next to Richter (who is definitely a medieval-or-thereabouts warrior, but I couldn't quite tell you what his hobbies are). It's a lot easier to evaluate a character design in terms of a standard set by a cast, but it's a lot harder to figure out how effectively one conveys information when it effectively lacks context entirely.

Or maybe I'm drastically overthinking this and you just want to know which ones I like. That's probably it, to be honest. Well, let me tell you anyway.

• I think the Ice Climbers take a relatively unremarkable character sprite and make them absolutely adorable. Plus the gimmick of them working together gives them... y'know, something to differentiate themselves. Their Smash designs really did them wonders in terms of fans.
• R.O.B. is just a really fun design in general. I like how natural he looks even though his design looks nothing like any living creature. Smash gave him a bendable spine and a mild change in typical proportion, but I'm an even bigger fan of how they animated him. His shoulders turn 360 degrees and slide up and down his body in a way you couldn't do with any other character.
• This'll be a weird pick, but I really like the Koopalings as a unit. I think it's fun that they can all look distinct while clearly being part of the same group of characters.
• Bayonetta's personality is just so immediately apparent from her everything that I have to give it to her.
• I think Inklings are exactly what I like in a humanoid species design. Between the hair, mask, ears, and fangs, they honestly manage to nab the best of both worlds between "humans that can turn into squids" and "sentient squidfolk". The real star of the show, though, are the hairstyles. I love that Inkling hairstyles are all made up of tentacles. There's endless potential with that alone, just interpreting human hairstyles as made of tentacles. Not to mention, it's always specifically six, which is the sort of rule that can just make everything come together in a design like this. I also just like the default Inkling's hairstyle. The two tentacles on either side look nice to me.
• Ridley does the best job of conveying "evil space monster" I've ever seen.
• In the context of a fighting game, I don't think we get to play as killer plants enough. But even beyond that, I think Piranha Plant is a really good design they've honed in on over the years. It manages to look friendlier than the mother of all toothy topiaries, Audrey II, while keeping some of the attitude even without an expression.

 

[chocolatejr9]

View attachment 303965

Didn't your mum ever tell you it's not nice to talk about a lady's weight?

Wasn't there a similar scene in the game, ironically enough?

 

[MBRedboy31]

That makes sense and all, but how is it that we didn't get a single character with a Japanese sword until Sephiroth? It's not like Fire Emblem didn't have an option for that either!

Don’t forget the Mii Swordfighter costumes that come with Japanese-styled swords like Takamaru, Nakoruru, and the generic samurai costume that was in 4 but not Ultimate.

 

[Shroob]

To elaborate more on this, I asked my friend @Tougon before on how this works and he gave a detailed explanation. I'll copy paste his explanation here.

So this could mean one of two things.

Either:


A: It means nothing and it's just because Rathalos plays a big part in the game
or
B: It means that something was meant to be playable

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Speaking of Swords, here's Sakurai's Pic of the Day.

pic.twitter.com/Ri6HfTRbZm

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) February 19, 2021

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I hope we get a couple Xenoblade X music with Pyra, but i doubt it.

 

[Pillow]

Hey, you can’t just forget Mii Swordfighter costumes that come with Japanese-styled swords like Takamaru, Nakoruru, and the generic samurai costume that was in 4 but not Ultimate.

Yes I can, and yes I did.

 

[N3ON]

I feel like I'm the only one apathetic about Greninja's design and wish they had stuck with the cloud motif.

That makes sense and all, but how is it that we didn't get a single character with a Japanese sword until Sephiroth? It's not like Fire Emblem didn't have an option for that either!

One of my hottest takes is that were it up to me I would've chosen Lyn over Ike and then been free to give Chrom an original Ike-like moveset.

 

[Wunderwaft]

So this could mean one of two things.

Either:


A: It means nothing and it's just because Rathalos plays a big part in the game
or
B: It means that something was meant to be playable

I suppose so
Though if B is true then that would make things interesting considering this pass has been about old ideas that couldn't make it in the base game. ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 were two franchises that would have gotten a playable fighter if timing was on their side. Sephiroth is meant to cover the absurdly lacking content of FF7. And Steve has been in discussion for over five years.

Really makes you wonder if Monster Hunter will also continue this trend.

 

[Pillow]

In terms of other Smash designs I really dig, Greninja is probably one of the coolest designs for a Pokemon period. I can see why it tops so many popularity polls.

It's a ninja frog, for pete's sake. The tongue scarf in particular really takes it up a notch.

Greninja is great. So why were Dephox and Chestnaught so god awful? Like jeez

 

[ARandomZoomer]

I don't agree with this image really, but a lot of times, it feels like "Another anime swordsman?!" sounds more like "Another anime swordsman I didn't ask for?!"

View attachment 303961

Hence I'll never complain about swordsmen
Not when I want Lloyd, Crono, and Ghirahim lol

 

[Kokiden]

I think Ivysaur’s design goes unappreciated in general. Who doesn’t love a cute little plant dinosaur? It’s mostly because it’s a middle evo Pokémon, but still. It’s a shame too because among starters, I actually like the middle evolution the most for a lot of them. Ivysaur, Quilava, Croconaw, Grovyle, and every Gen 8 starter.

I do!

I love the **** out of Bulbasaur and Ivysaur. They're so cute.

 

[Faso115]

View attachment 303965

Didn't your mum ever tell you it's not nice to talk about a lady's weight?

Hey, nothing to be ashamed of. She should just admit that she is a heavyweight because of her armor

And just like that time i "predicted" Sephiroth's victory screen, i will predict that at least Pyra will be on the heavy side lol. Jury's out on Mythra tho i guess she will be lighter for balancing reasons.

 

[Shroob]

I suppose so
Though if B is true then that would make things interesting considering this pass has been about old ideas that couldn't make it in the base game. ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 were two franchises that would have gotten a playable fighter if timing was on their side. Sephiroth is meant to cover the absurdly lacking content of FF7. And Steve has been in discussion for over five years.

Really makes you wonder if Monster Hunter will also continue this trend.

I mean, that's been the talk of the town for awhile now due to Rise, and if the Mii costumes are still MIA after the Pyra/Mythra presentation, then I think more or less everyone is going to be pointing to MonHun.

 

[Polan]

So this could mean one of two things.

Either:


A: It means nothing and it's just because Rathalos plays a big part in the game
or
B: It means that something was meant to be playable

im going with B. i feel like monster hunter was definitely one of those characters that we're worked on but got the boot somewhere along development thanks to the workload of "everyone is here". it just feels...wrong that rathalos is there all by himself, with an entire WoL section to himself, two tracks and leftovers from where monster hunter was classed as playable internally. personally it feels like the chorus men/rhythm heaven character stuff again with remnants of what was once intended to be playable left over. unlike rhythm heaven tho, monster hunter is a very popular and active franchise so its got more going for it than RH ever did.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

I feel like I'm the only one apathetic about Greninja's design

You're not alone. I don't dislike it but I dunno, the frog ninja just doesn't wow me as much as I like the concept

 

[Shroob]

Decided to watch Rogerbase's reaction.


He was losing his mind so hard that when the Fall Guys part started, he went "FALL GUYS IN SM----".

 

[N3ON]

So this could mean one of two things.

Either:


A: It means nothing and it's just because Rathalos plays a big part in the game
or
B: It means that something was meant to be playable

Could it not just be because there is a specific locale in which only the 'MH' songs are played?