Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Ivander]

Wait. Since when have people considered Yuna to be an overly sexualized character? Her base outfit is about as modest as it gets for a JRPG girl.

Yuna's outfit in the first game is far from sexualized(at least, nothing I've noticed). Her X-2 outfit....well....

Spoiler: Potentially NSFW...

I mean, that is an official Squaresoft image.

 

[Dyamanttine]

Physical appearance is always the most prominent thing when it comes to character design so I’m not surprised people have come to the point where talking about the physical attributes of Pyra and Mythra have become the most common discussion around the community.

However, there is a bit of a double standard going on but also kind of not? It’s weird because I remember in Smash 4 after the announcement of Ike’s new design from Radiant Dawn making it in people were thirsting over how ripped he was, then Cloud came out and everyone talked about how hot he was, then Sephiroth came out and the same thing happened there. I guess the point of contention there is that near all the discussion surrounding Pyra/Mythra is that single attribute and the memes that come with it. I dunno though because people thirsting over Ike’s muscles doesn’t seem that much different than people memeing Pyra/Mythra’s breasts. Maybe that’s just me though.

Lovely, this pretty much summarizes the whole situation, it’s difficult not to be carried away sometimes about those things, i don’t take it too seriously, which is why I’m always making fun about those kind of stuff since it’s healthier this way

They are indeed good looking, but that doesn’t mean that we are all thirsty for them, that rule I refuse to follow.

 

[Pillow]

But nobody ever asks what Africa wants.

...that's because most of Africa wants political stability and food, and does not give two ****s who appears in Smash.

 

[DevaAshera]

But these are video game characters. You'd be hard pressed to find a single notable female character that didn't have some sort of sexy outfit or costume at some point or another. I'm pretty sure even Princess Peach has appeared in a bathing suit in an official Nintendo game at some point or another.

She has, ina one-piece in the Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games series and a bikini in Odyssey.

Physical appearance is always the most prominent thing when it comes to character design so I’m not surprised people have come to the point where talking about the physical attributes of Pyra and Mythra have become the most common discussion around the community.

However, there is a bit of a double standard going on but also kind of not? It’s weird because I remember in Smash 4 after the announcement of Ike’s new design from Radiant Dawn making it in people were thirsting over how ripped he was, then Cloud came out and everyone talked about how hot he was, then Sephiroth came out and the same thing happened there. I guess the point of contention there is that near all the discussion surrounding Pyra/Mythra is that single attribute and the memes that come with it. I dunno though because people thirsting over Ike’s muscles doesn’t seem that much different than people memeing Pyra/Mythra’s breasts. Maybe that’s just me though.

There's always been one because people like to say men can't be sexualized and that being ripped is a 'male power fantasy' of what men want to look like..but, like, as a girl, transgender or not, I want to look like girls like Pyra..so I don't see how that's not the same thing..they'll say not all girls want to look like that, but it's the same for men..not all men want to look ripped like Ike.

Don't forget the memes about Snake's butt downgrade compared to reactions to people making the same memes regarding a similar case Zero Suit Samus had..one was seen as funny and the other seen as whiny thirsty fanboys.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Are people complaining about pyra and mythras looks?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Physical appearance is always the most prominent thing when it comes to character design so I’m not surprised people have come to the point where talking about the physical attributes of Pyra and Mythra have become the most common discussion around the community.

It's also worth noting that Pyra's design really draws the eyes to the chest when looking at it from the front, so you pretty much can't not notice the bust size.

Oddly enough, this seems to be a stronger effect with Pyra than with Mythra despite the latter being the one with the boob window.

 

[Diddy Kong]

...that's because most of Africa wants political stability and food, and does not give two ****s who appears in Smash.

As the biggest continent on Earth, and with countries with the highest financial growth the last year's, you're really underselling Africa.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Are people complaining about pyra and mythras looks?

No we're complaining about complaining about Pyra and Mythra's looks. The original complaints come from off site.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Question did practicalbrush12 leak the contents of the dedicated Steve presentation (with the miis and all) or no

 

[SharkLord]

America, Japan, why do they get so much focus all the time? Yeah big markets, sure. And Nintendo is Japanese and all...

But nobody ever asks what Africa wants.

Considering Terry was pretty much the Latin American pick, I do wonder what other, lesser vocal parts of the world would want honestly.

To be fair, I'm not sure if Nintendo even sells their stuff in Africa. Well, most of it, at least. I think NoE handles South Africa, and but that's the extent of my knowledge.

Actually, does Nintendo sell stuff in Africa? I'm honestly kinda curious.

 

[drag0nscythe]

No we're complaining about complaining about Pyra and Mythra's looks. The original complaints come from off site.

That is getting silly. Let me guess. Moron-era.

 

[Pillow]

She has, ina one-piece in the Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games series and a bikini in Odyssey.

There's always been one because people like to say men can't be sexualized and that being ripped is a 'male power fantasy'..but, like, as a girl, transgender or not, I want to look like girls like Pyra..so I don't see how that's not the same thing.

It is literally the exact same thing.

Are people complaining about pyra and mythras looks?

The topic is on Pyra/Mythra being oversexualized. Which is stupid, because being sexy is not an issue anyone should take issue with.

Personally, I do have issues with Pyra's appearance. But that has nothing to do with her being sexy and everything to do with the fact that her outfit is something no sane person would ever wear in any context.

As the biggest continent on Earth, and with countries with the highest financial growth the last year's, you're really underselling Africa.

I'm really not. Geographical size means **** all, and yes, there are first world countries in Africa such as South Africa but the continent as a whole is a political mess filled with war and all sorts of other atrocious things as the content is still struggling to recover rom several centuries worth of ****ups caused by colonialism.

 

[Shroob]

Here's some nice art of all the DLC characters between Smash 4 and Ult... Crazy how far we've come.

🗼onﾎﾑﾗﾋｶﾘﾁｬﾝ。 pic.twitter.com/zTdEBcyp1h

— ▫️ (@ya_tudoki15) February 18, 2021

 

[drag0nscythe]

It is literally the exact same thing.


The topic is on Pyra/Mythra being oversexualized. Which is stupid, because being sexy is not an issue anyone should take issue with.

Personally, I do have issues with Pyra's appearance. But that has nothing to do with her being sexy and everything to do with the fact that her outfit is something no sane person would ever wear in any context.

While true, it is fantasy. And that always tends to be weird. I like the designs. Has a more outlandish xenosaga vib to it.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Don't forget the memes about Snake's butt downgrade compared to reactions to people making the same memes regarding a similar case Zero Suit Samus had..one was seen as funny and the other seen as whiny thirsty fanboys.

I think the equivalent of thirsting for the female character is if the male character satisfy the female fantasy, I don't know what it is but it is something along the lines of a pretty boy and all of that, example like the BTS idol

 

[Dyamanttine]

There's always been one because people like to say men can't be sexualized and that being ripped is a 'male power fantasy' of what men want to look like..but, like, as a girl, transgender or not, I want to look like girls like Pyra..so I don't see how that's not the same thing..they'll say not all girls want to look like that, but it's the same for men..not all men want to look ripped like Ike.

Don't forget the memes about Snake's butt downgrade compared to reactions to people making the same memes regarding a similar case Zero Suit Samus had..one was seen as funny and the other seen as whiny thirsty fanboys.

The real issue here is that when something like “Snake’s big sized butt” happens, people only intend to make jokes about it, but when a well designed and good looking female character takes the scene, the scenery is totally different.

It’s okay if you like Pyra, Mythra, whatever, everyone has their opinions so don’t go bashing them because of it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the equivalent of thirsting for the female character is if the male character satisfy the female fantasy, I don't know what it is but it is something along the lines of a pretty boy and all of that, example like the BTS idol

Another example is Sephiroth because being attractive to literally everyone on the planet still counts as satisfying the female fantasy.

 

[drag0nscythe]

The real issue here is that when something like “Snake’s big sized butt” happens, people only intend to make jokes about it, but when a well designed and good looking female character takes the scene, the scenery is totally different.

It’s okay if you like Pyra, Mythra, whatever, everyone has their opinions so don’t go bashing them because of it.

What would you consider a well designed female?

 

[Pillow]

While true, it is fantasy. And that always tends to be weird. I like the designs. Has a more outlandish xenosaga vib to it.

Hey, power to you man. I'm glad their design appeals to people. It just doesn't appeal to me.

I think the equivalent of thirsting for the female character is if the male character satisfy the female fantasy, I don't know what it is but it is something along the lines of a pretty boy and all of that, example like the BTS idol

Gender dynamics are not as simple as that. Pretty boy characters with lots of fangirls are still a male power fantasy.

What would you consider a well designed female?

I'm generally not hard to please. Out of potential smash girls I like pretty much the whole range from Shantae, to Jill Valentine, to 2B, to Lara Croft. I just don't like characters with overdesigned costumes. This doesn't just apply to girl characters, and in fact, as much as I dislike Pyra's design I still like it far more than Rex's.

 

[The Fantasy Smasher]

With Pyra and Mithra now revealed, I am convinced that the last two charcters will be big hitters. Even as someone who doesn't know a ton about Xenoblade, I still am very happy for fans of Pyra and Mythra and appreciate how Sakurai went out of his way to add Xenoblade 2 and ARMS characters after not being able to include them in the base game despite his want to. However, at the same time I also recognize that this was a much safer, less wild pick then Steve or Sephiroth. Those characters were jaw droppers that many would have never, ever anticpaited would join the battle a few years ago.

They way things are lining up, the next two fighters will be an E3 reveal an the final character in the pass. E3 reveals are always mega ton fan favorites so I am fully expecting a 3rd party legacy character similar to Banjo and Steve. In this case, the possibilities are endless. Perhaps they can complete the Microsoft holy trinity by revealing Master Chief. Dante, Doom Slayer, Crash etc. I know its still a long ways off but I think this could be one of the biggest reveals in Ultimates cycle.

Assuming there is no 3rd Pass, I am also expecting the final character to be a pretty huge deal. Yes, I know they ended the 1st pass with Byleth (and we all know how well that went over), but from how things have been sounding it seems like Byleth was never truly intended to be the last character. I don't even know who they could end with, but I can assume it would be a major 3rd party. Something Crazy like a Sony Rep or something completely unexpected.

Safe to say, I will be very surprised if we get another 1st party character. With only two characters remaining, I want to see some big gaming icons be included. Only time will tell I suppose.

 

[DevaAshera]

It's the double standard that annoys me, I mean, does anyone else remember that woman FROM NINTENDO that was thirsting hard for Shirtless Link when showcasing Breath of the Wild at E3 and all of the women around her found it funny? Imagine had that been a guy with Pyra! Like I'm not saying I want the latter, but its inappropriate from a Nintendo employee during an official presentation and literally no one cared..it just felt like such a double standard!

It is literally the exact same thing.

The topic is on Pyra/Mythra being oversexualized. Which is stupid, because being sexy is not an issue anyone should take issue with.

Personally, I do have issues with Pyra's appearance. But that has nothing to do with her being sexy and everything to do with the fact that her outfit is something no sane person would ever wear in any context.

I would wear it..but I'm only debatable same lol I dressed as DMC1 Dante, full pleather outfit, in the Florida Summer Sun.

 

[Diddy Kong]

To be fair, I'm not sure if Nintendo even sells their stuff in Africa. Well, most of it, at least. I think NoE handles South Africa, and but that's the extent of my knowledge.

Actually, does Nintendo sell stuff in Africa? I'm honestly kinda curious.

There are gaming markets over there I just read.

Top gaming markets in Africa by revenue 2018 | Statista

The statistic present the leading video gaming markets in Africa in 2018, ranked by revenue.

www.statista.com

This is the most popular video game in Africa

It's the most searched for video game in Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya and Egypt.

www.google.com

 

[drag0nscythe]

Someone made up a mockup of what the CSS will look like with P/M and the last 2 DLC spots.


View attachment 303955


Steve and Sephiroth next to each other will never not be funny.

That image has characters not present. Like shadow and dixie.

 

[Dyamanttine]

What would you consider a well designed female?

That’s subjective, I don’t like a character because of how big their butt or chest looks, i just decide if I like them or not, very simple.

 

[Shroob]

That image has characters not present. Like shadow and dixie.

Oh, whoops. Didn't even notice rofl.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Someone made up a mockup of what the CSS will look like with P/M and the last 2 DLC spots.

And also Shadow, Donkey Kong Jr., Impa, Black Shadow, Dixie Kong, Elma, and Bandana Waddle Dee instead of the characters they don't like.

 

[Kokiden]

The topic is on Pyra/Mythra being oversexualized. Which is stupid, because being sexy is not an issue anyone should take issue with.

I agree with this.

There's nothing wrong with being sexy, and I don't know why people are getting so antsy about characters who look it. I saw a vague hint of some form of discourse on twitter, but I didn't pay too much attention.

Why am I not surprised that people are up in arms about these 2 characters looks? Sigh.

Are characters supposed to be fully covered up from head to toe nowadays or something? I know nothing about Myra and Pyra, but they look good from what I'm seeing. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

 

[drag0nscythe]

That’s subjective, I don’t like a character because of how big their butt or chest looks, i just decide if I like them or not, very simple.

No. That's fair, was just curious what you considered to be a good female design. Yae from goemon is my favorite design.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I actually do like Pyra and Mythra designs. The reason why I don't really care for them is that I just never played any Xeno game other than Xenogears which I assume is the reason most people have disdain for a character in media. I probably would like Xenoblade if i tried it but im to consumed in playing retro recently to try it out.

What would you consider a well designed female?

Its Subjective, I cant really post a design and go "THIS IS WHAT I WANT ALL WOMEN IN VIDEOGAMES TO LOOK LIKE".
I only care if the design appeals to me.

 

[GothicSlenderman]

Remember that it doesn't have to be a character that never talks, since Mega Man is unvoiced in Smash but not Mega Man 8, 11, MvC, or any other non-NES/SNES-styled games. Characters like Ryu Hayabusa, who as a ninja could be depicted silently, could be included..but I also think that we should take a sound test theory with a grain of salt as slots could be added easily.

This is true. Pacman has also spoke in a lot of his games as well and he's silent in Smash too.

 

[Pillow]

It's the double standard that annoys me, I mean, does anyone else remember that woman FROM NINTENDO that was thirsting hard for Shirtless Link when showcasing Breath of the Wild at E3 and all of the women around her found it funny? Imagine had that been a guy with Pyra! Like I'm not saying I want the latter, but its inappropriate from a Nintendo employee during an official presentation and literally no one cared..it just felt like such a double standard!

It is a double standard, and perhaps it isn't fair. But that's life. The issue is usually sexy male characters have a lot more effort put into their character design, while sexy girl characters are often there just to be sexy. I don't have anything against sexy girl characters, but I absolutely see it as a good thing that people are starting to criticize the gaming industry for focusing so much on the sexiness of female characters over other aspects. Boobs are nice, but boobs alone don't make a character engaging (I'm not talking about Pyra, as I know nothing about her character, but about female characters in general).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I will say that the topic of a well designed character is so broad that I don't think there can be any correct answer than either "one that fulfills the needs of the character" or "one that I like".

 

[rexfan53]

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Cutscene 011 - Rexsurrection - ENGLISH

Chapter 1: EncountersOfficial cutscene title: Part of "Resonance of the Heart"Location: Ancient ShipNote: By popular request, I decided to upload the English...

www.youtube.com

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Cutscene 012 - Crossroads of Destiny - ENGLISH

End of Chapter 1: EncountersLocation: Ancient ShipNote: By popular request, I decided to upload the English videos without subtitles this time. Please refer ...

www.youtube.com

im gonna disagree, Rex can't do some of the cray handstand's and acrobatics pyra can do.

he wouldn't have any of mytha'rs multihit or projectile moves unless he learns how to teleport or float either.

those are both super early in the game. Pull up a cutscene from later and rex is a lot more experienced and doesnt just run forward and hit. As the game goes on he does more crazy stuff.

Also mythra cannot float or teleport, the "teleport"is foresight and the float is a jump. Rex actually used foresight several times which is shown first in this cutscene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9-rUHc_DtE and he is also seen in the air with mythra/pyra those are just jumps, mythra and pyra grant powers to rex through their link

 

[Dyamanttine]

No. That's fair, was just curious what you considered to be a good female design. Yae from goemon is my favorite design.

sorry if I sounded a little rude, I’m just mad about this pyra and mythra situation, either way like someone else said it’s really easy for a certain character to please me, sometimes I like the sidekick more than the protagonist, sometimes the villain, it really depends on a list of things, in the end the character that speaks to my heart the most takes the cake. ^-^

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How about a slight deviation: What are your favorite character designs in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?

 

[rexfan53]

Question did practicalbrush12 leak the contents of the dedicated Steve presentation (with the miis and all) or no

nah he only leaked the reveal. the presentation was later remember

 

[Pillow]

How about a slight deviation: What are your favorite character designs in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?

If we're talking about specifically how a character looks in Ultimate against their base game, then the answer is Ken no question.

In terms of gameplay design, I really loved how Sakurai made Duck Hunt. The Smash attacks and specials basically being an offscreen player shooting at the stage is super brilliant.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I actually do like Pyra and Mythra designs. The reason why I don't really care for them is that I just never played any Xeno game other than Xenogears which I assume is the reason most people have disdain for a character in media. I probably would like Xenoblade if i tried it but im to consumed in playing retro recently to try it out.


Its Subjective, I cant really post a design and go "THIS IS WHAT I WANT ALL WOMEN IN VIDEOGAMES TO LOOK LIKE".
I only care if the design appeals to me.

I dont think people would never expext all characters to match a similar design. But i do think archetypes are a thing.

sorry if I sounded a little rude, I’m just mad about this pyra and mythra situation, either way like someone else said it’s really easy for a certain character to please me, sometimes I like the sidekick more than the protagonist, sometimes the villain, it really depends on a list of things, in the end the character that speaks to my heart the most takes the cake. ^-^

It is all Subjective. I agree. The best designs play to the character and their persona, and not the audience. Cheap pandering, while fun, does not make an excellent character.

I like yae, preferably her original design. She looked like a badass ninja, and it worked. Her manga costume, was bad. Clearly designed for the audience.

 

[DevaAshera]

I think the equivalent of thirsting for the female character is if the male character satisfy the female fantasy, I don't know what it is but it is something along the lines of a pretty boy and all of that, example like the BTS idol

Women, like men, have a pretty vast range of what appeals to them..so it's hard to say. Some like pretty boys like Link & Sephiroth, some like beefcakes like Ike, some like more rugged men like Snake, and so-on. Funnily enough, the men women like tend to seem cool to men most of the time.
The men I like tend to be those like Link & Astolfo from the Fate/series.

It is a double standard, and perhaps it isn't fair. But that's life. The issue is usually sexy male characters have a lot more effort put into their character design, while sexy girl characters are often there just to be sexy. I don't have anything against sexy girl characters, but I absolutely see it as a good thing that people are starting to criticize the gaming industry for focusing so much on the sexiness of female characters over other aspects. Boobs are nice, but boobs alone don't make a character engaging (I'm not talking about Pyra, as I know nothing about her character, but about female characters in general).

I don't disagree, my annoyance is more at those that claim a female character is only liked for her body and nothing else, even more-so if they then mock those trying to say why they like a character.
Like I said, I'm always accused of this for characters like Pyra but never for characters like Cloud. Unless that character is like Astolfo and then its mocked for similar reasons as with sexy female characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How about a slight deviation: What are your favorite character designs in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?

Here are mine:

• Pichu: He's so freaking cute.
• Lucario: He is my second favorite Pokémon design. EDIT: Bet'cha can't figure out what my favorite Pokémon design is. lol
• R.O.B.: I love how it's made of plastic now.
• Wolf: I think this is the best Wolf design to date. I especially love the bandana they tied around his leg. It makes him feel really storied.
• Incineroar: It's one of my favorite Gen 7 designs, though I can't exactly place why.