Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[TCT~Phantom]

So, what do you guys think is the likelihood that we'd get an Echo Fighters pass? There are plenty of characters who'd be great fits for Smash that could be made from existing characters.

God I would want an echo fighter pass, but I doubt it. It is something so easy and it would likely sell well, but Nintendo seems adamant on not doing it. We have not gotten it so far so unless we get a Season 3 this is in the same camp as DLC stages, which I also want for the sole reason that the lack of a Tetris stage angers me.

 

[Ivander]

But onto something else, Pyra and Mythra are 2 separate fighters. Did any of you guys think we were going to get 2 Fighters in 1 Pack before the 17th?

I did talk about the possibility of another Pokemon Trainer character and the swap mechanic.

You know, on the subject of Pokemon, what about another trainer? Except one of the more prominent ones, like Giovanni, N or Cynthia? I mean, some of the trainers themselves are popular in their own right.

Sure, if they do the swap mechanic again, it wouldn't exactly be anything new, but it doesn't mean that they can't have their own unique twist. Like maybe 2 Pokemon to switch between with a gimmick based around Double Battles from Pokemon, like Specials utilising both Pokemon or a Partner mechanic similar to Marvel vs Capcom where the other Pokemon can be called out to do an attack to help the Pokemon in play?

So while it wasn't a Pokemon Trainer character, the possibility of a Pokemon Trainer character was there.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I feel like they would have kept the same moveset but made him heavier with more lag.

They would have to be much less acrobatic for this to be the case.

 

[Idon]

Rex can't magically float the sword around himself like Pythra do for a lot of their attacks or do the acrobatic flipping and dipping so I kinda doubt he'd do the same animations.

 

[Pillow]

One of the strangest things I think I've seen in the Smash community is the amount of people flocking to Zelda in this context now that she looks like a child.

Don't test me man, I'll ****ing fight you.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Even if we did get a Shulk echo, I doubt it would be Rex.

Spoiler

Serious Spoilers for XC2, turn back at your own risk.

Spoiler

Malos would be the echo they would go with since unlike Rex, he actually gets a Monado. As such, you could likely make all the arts work better for him and make a pretty cool echo to boot.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

In my heart of hearts I want Rex reserved as Mr. grappling hook, and he just becomes Spencer from MvC but with a sword.

Would never happen, but I want it.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Bayonetta got a surprisingly good reception and she was the last DLC in Smash 4. I could see the last character at least getting the same level of love.

Pretty much. People only remember the salt she caused in the meta, but as far as her initial trailer reception was, I remember it being pretty favorable overall. Especially because a lot of people thought she was impossible.

 

[Ivander]

One of the strangest things I think I've seen in the Smash community is the amount of people flocking to Zelda in this context now that she looks like a child.

Let's not go there.....just...let's not.

I swear, when can Japan ever make a character look and sound their age that it limits the appearance of these discussions?

 

[Lamperouge]

Yeah, I don't see Rex happening at any point now.

 

[7NATOR]

So, what do you guys think is the likelihood that we'd get an Echo Fighters pass? There are plenty of characters who'd be great fits for Smash that could be made from existing characters.


Not personally (I've long since given up on seeing Luke as a fighter), but I'd be a bit disappointed for other people who really wanted Lloyd.

No Echo Fighter pass I think

Echo Fighters are in that weird medium where they aren't as easy to make as a Mii Costume, but the also aren't as unique as Semi-Clones or completely unique fighters

Pretty much I think the flaws of a hypothetical Echo Pass is that

-There aren't that many Candidates that would be big draws
-Take more effort than Mii Costumes, Since unlike Mii's, Echoes need their own Art, Voice acting, etc. It would also be kind of weird to figure out the cost

I just think Echoes were a base game thing because there were more people Working on base game development, and they added value to the base game, but since I imagine the Development crew is a skeleton version of the Base game crew, I imagine they just put that effort into other things that either have more value (Characters, Stages, Potentially modes) or are Much easier to create (Mii's)

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Y'know, Pyra and Mythra had some uncanny similarities with Min Min. Female fighter chosen over the main character, first-party, 2017 Switch release that missed out on the base game, and a weapon change mechanic. D'you think we might have some parallels with Steve and Sephiroth later down the line, or am I just looking for patterns where there aren't any?

I've thought about this myself. Master Chief and either Chun-li/Eggman would be good final reveals.

 

[Ivander]

Yeah, I don't see Rex happening at any point now.

Just wait until the next Smash when he reaches the 3rd step of being Chrom'd.

 

[rexfan53]

They would have to be much less acrobatic for this to be the case.

I just recently rewatched the trailer and i'd say Pyra moves like rex, the way she does things such as smash attacks and those tilts. Also Rex is just as acrobatic as pyra but I don't feel like digging up all the cutscenes and making them into gifs to prove my point.

im talking about cutscene rex lol not gameplay rex. Since pyra/mythras moveset is mostly cutscene based, rex would be at the same speed and level as pyra/mythra plus he could use all of their moves like foresight which he cannot use in game. Most of their moves i have seen rex perform alongside them

 

[rexfan53]

Yeah, I don't see Rex happening at any point now.

i would genuinely laugh if there was an echo pass and rex was the last echo fighter announced lmfao.
I also think rex will have a bigger appearance in p+ms moveset in a future smash game since he won't have the problem of the bonus mii costume becoming worthless.

 

[SWSU]

I do wish we got more with Echo Fighters, its like they opened the door being like "HEY, LOOK AT THIS NEW EASY CONCEPT!" and then they left it open and barely used it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also Rex is just as acrobatic as pyra but I don't feel like digging up all the cutscenes and making them into gifs to prove my point.

He's really not. Kid can jump, but he's not doing flips and stuff.

EDIT: He also fights fairly grounded while Pyra does all the flippy spinny stuff and Mythra...well Mythra mostly just uses Sacred Arrow.

 

[Idon]

Must've missed the cutscene where Rex moved like this

 

[MattX20]

So, a thought occurred to me. You guys paid any attention to the voice and music test menus? When Sephiroth was added to Ultimate, we had 3 voice spots left and 2 music spots left. With Pyra and Mythra's addition to the game, it potentially means 2 out of the remaining 3 voice slots are going to be taken. How many mute playable character possibilities that come from franchises/series not already represented in Smash can you think of should that turn out to be the case?

 

[Nekoo]

Pretty sure they're using Torna's whole Blade Gameplay with Mythra and adapt it to both her and Pyra yknow.

 

[SharkLord]

I do wish we got more with Echo Fighters, its like they opened the door being like "HEY, LOOK AT THIS NEW EASY CONCEPT!" and then they left it open and barely used it.

Really, it's just a rebrand for Melee/4 tier Echoes. I think the Echo brand was conceptualized late in development, to try and make the low-effort clones sound more appealing as they tried to use them to get around the issue of only six full newcomers.

 

[rexfan53]

He's really not. Kid can jump, but he's not doing flips and stuff.

I swear there is a cutscene where rex does a flip

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I just recently rewatched the trailer and i'd say Pyra moves like rex, the way she does things such as smash attacks and those tilts. Also Rex is just as acrobatic as pyra but I don't feel like digging up all the cutscenes and making them into gifs to prove my point.

im talking about cutscene rex lol not gameplay rex. Since pyra/mythras moveset is mostly cutscene based, rex would be at the same speed and level as pyra/mythra plus he could use all of their moves like foresight which he cannot use in game. Most of their moves i have seen rex perform alongside them

Aren't a lot of Pyra's specials pulled from XC2's equivalent of supers (I think they're called specials there. I don't remember)? I'm pretty sure the spinny projectile sword is one.

If Rex happened I could see him being pretty different just because he has stuff like rolling smash and anchor shot. It would depend on how much they wanted the blades to be the focus, I guess.

 

[SharkLord]

So, a thought occurred to me. You guys paid any attention to the voice and music test menus? When Sephiroth was added to Ultimate, we had 3 voice spots left and 2 music spots left. With Pyra and Mythra's addition to the game, it potentially means 2 out of the remaining 3 voice slots are going to be taken. How many mute playable character possibilities that come from franchises/series not already represented in Smash can you think of should that turn out to be the case?

It's been proven that using the in-game files and test menus is pointless. There aren't any patterns, and so trying to find any won't go anywhere.

 

[MattX20]

It's been proven that using the in-game files and test menus is pointless. There aren't any patterns, and so trying to find any won't go anywhere.

and where is this proof?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So, a thought occurred to me. You guys paid any attention to the voice and music test menus? When Sephiroth was added to Ultimate, we had 3 voice spots left and 2 music spots left. With Pyra and Mythra's addition to the game, it potentially means 2 out of the remaining 3 voice slots are going to be taken. How many mute playable character possibilities that come from franchises/series not already represented in Smash can you think of should that turn out to be the case?

It's been confirmed that the theory is based on the UI and is therefore super dumb, and also they can add slots whenever they want.

 

[Nekoo]

and where is this proof?

Cloud AC getting a voice slot JUT for the omnislash V5 scream and sound effect.

 

[SharkLord]

and where is this proof?

Here

Yo so no clue how much people are still paying attention to the supposed voice theory and/or placeholder slots, but they don't seem to mean much of anything. I started poking around in the WoL param files to see if it was possible to add fights for the DLC characters, and in the process, I've discovered a few things about placeholder data.

• Voice Theory has absolutely no legs to stand on outside of a perfect square which is ultimately meaningless. The parameter file for the sound test (ui_voice_db.prc) has no placeholder entries in it. The entries for DLC characters are simply added to the end of the album list. The final two entries in the list are Sephiroth and Advent Cloud.
  
  
• Within the World of Light movement params (used for map movement), there exist 10 unoccupied entries. These entries start from dummy_07 and go to dummy_16. There are a few irregularities with the dummy slots. The first dummy string is dummy_02, and counting backwards from dummy_07 puts dummy_02 at Terry, leaving four slots (Plant, Joker, Hero, and Banjo) unaccounted for. The Cutting Room Floor has a bit more information that helps explain this discrepancy. I unfortunately only have the current patch to work from:
  
  A whopping 30 placeholder character slots existed in the files of the character selection screen at launch before being removed in the v2.0.0 update. There are also a slightly smaller 16 placeholder character slots in the files for the World of Light and in the attack_log_parameter.prc file, Piranha Plant and Joker from Persona 5 replaced the two placeholder slots from the World of Light and the attack_log_parameter.prc file, the Hero from Dragon Quest XI and Banjo and Kazooie did not replace of any of the placeholder slots in the World of Light, two more placeholder slots were removed in v6.0.0, Byleth from Fire Emblem: Three Houses did not take any of the placeholder slots in v7.0.0, and one slot was replaced by Min Min in v8.0.0 and Steve replaced another slot in v9.0.0, it is unknown if this applies to the rest of the DLC fighters or not.
  
  The important bits here are Plant, Joker, Min Min, and Steve replaced slots, while Hero, Banjo, and Byleth did not. If this article is accurate, then there is one dummy string (dummy_01) unaccounted for, and slots can be arbitrarily removed or added at any time.

tl;dr version, any theory that involves unused entries in game data is faulty, especially if the data never existed in the first place (voice theory)

also real leak

Spoiler: real

For context:

I started poking around in the WoL param files to see if it was possible to add fights for the DLC characters, and in the process, I've discovered a few things about placeholder data.

The bottom line:

tl;dr version, any theory that involves unused entries in game data is faulty, especially if the data never existed in the first place (voice theory)

 

[Dan Quixote]

I swear there is a cutscene where rex does a flip

He's an anime-style protagonist, and they always be flipping. Plus Smash always makes every fighter more acrobatic than they actually are so I doubt it's an issue.

Yeah, I don't see Rex happening at any point now.

Honestly I'd say he's a distinct possibility for SSB6, just because of what happened to Chrom. Plus if the theories about cutting down the giant roster for the next game are true, they'd probably go for the protagonist.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Honestly I'd say he's a distinct possibility for SSB6, just because of what happened to Chrom.

That happened because Chrom supporters specifically wanted to play as Chrom. Rex supporters are split between specifically wanting him and just wanting an XC2 rep.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

That happened because Chrom supporters specifically wanted to play as Chrom. Rex supporters are split between specifically wanting him and just wanting an XC2 rep.

And there probably won't be another ballot for that kind of fan feedback in the first place.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I swear there is a cutscene where rex does a flip

He does Rolling Smash, which granted is a flip, but it's in no way graceful.

The best comparison I can think of is that Rex uses the Aegis Sword as a strength weapon and Pyra uses it as a finesse weapon. There are some similarities in how they fight since they both use the Blade Specials and such, but they would definitely play very differently in Super Smash Bros, especially since Rex & Pyra/Mythra would likely be much slower overall due to a higher focus on Xenoblade Chronicles 2's battle mechanics.

Honestly I'd say he's a distinct possibility for SSB6, just because of what happened to Chrom. Plus if the theories about cutting down the giant roster for the next game are true, they'd probably go for the protagonist.

I doubt it. There's no one he could echo, and outright replacing Pyra and Mythra with Rex & Pyra/Mythra is about the cruelest thing you could do.

If they do anything, they'd add him alongside the two, but that would 1, be another addition of the same character on the roster so very few would get behind that, and 2, never happen because they need to represent the newest game in the series.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know

thinking about the concert rumor

If it’s true and he was able to pull that off no issue

then maybe just maybe EVERYONE IS HERE can happen again...

 

[rexfan53]

Aren't a lot of Pyra's specials pulled from XC2's equivalent of supers (I think they're called specials there. I don't remember)? I'm pretty sure the spinny projectile sword is one.

If Rex happened I could see him being pretty different just because he has stuff like rolling smash and anchor shot. It would depend on how much they wanted the blades to be the focus, I guess.

if it was only rex, pyra, and mythra, i dont think they would focus much on driver arts but if it included roc and wulfric(2 story blades) i could see them doing that.
I just booted up xc2 and yeah those are the blade specials. I never actually noticed them since the sword usually just goes flying and you see rex chanting and chaos happens.
My point still stands that rex is just as acrobatic as pyra tho

 

[DevaAshera]

im still on the monster hunter train. like we have straight up evidence that they were planned in some way for the base game which is far more than other characters have. would fit in nicely with all of the "revisited characters" trend we have going.

Evidence? What do you mean? I haven't heard anything about this.

Imma keep it real with u chief

X has literally made an impact on me when I was going through a tough time in my life. Exploring that vast sci-fi world helped get my mind off my troubles. It’s also the sci-fi JRPG I’ve craved since the OG Xenosaga trilogy. While I enjoy stuff like Star Ocean, it kinda lacks that... vibe that Xenosaga and X have

that’s why I’m hoping Kossy and Elma survive this pack AND they announce more fighters still. I wanna see this impactful game represented in full

While I had no interest in Xenoblade Chronicles X, I do hope you guys at least get some music or even Spirits and Mii Costumes in this coming update.
I know the annoyance of its absence since we have no MegaMan Battle Network music and the only music from my favorite Mega Man series, Mega Man Zero, is just a direct rip of a song from Mega Man Zero 1 that is just a remix of Zero's theme from Mega Man X1..and then as a huge fan of Wario Land / World I hate that the only content from it that isn't a Spirit or Wario's alt is a song from Wario Land Shake It that is itself a confirmed remix based on Wario's Victory Music from Brawl!

Pretty much. People only remember the salt she caused in the meta, but as far as her initial trailer reception was, I remember it being pretty favorable overall. Especially because a lot of people thought she was impossible.

Pretty much. The only salt I saw prior to the Meta was from those angry that she was stated as winning the Ballot over characters like King K. Rool or Shovel Knight due to people placing way too much faith in online fan polls..

 

[GothicSlenderman]

So, a thought occurred to me. You guys paid any attention to the voice and music test menus? When Sephiroth was added to Ultimate, we had 3 voice spots left and 2 music spots left. With Pyra and Mythra's addition to the game, it potentially means 2 out of the remaining 3 voice slots are going to be taken. How many mute playable character possibilities that come from franchises/series not already represented in Smash can you think of should that turn out to be the case?

Good question. If it does mean anything then with the 2 music spots it tells us that the last 2 fighters are from new franchises. But only 1 of them is voiced. Rayman does speak all that much in his newer titles unless they wanted to base him off his 3D platformers.

Other mute game characters include Gordon Freeman, Chell, Chosen Undead, Doomguy (depending on how they want to approach him), Vaultboy, characters that are an object like a Tetris block, an NES character who wasn't modernized, some indies like Meat Boy, Quote, ect

 

[SharkLord]

You know

thinking about the concert rumor

If it’s true and he was able to pull that off no issue

then maybe just maybe EVERYONE IS HERE can happen again...

You mean the rumor forgot about Ken's Theme?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You mean the rumor forgot about Ken's Theme?

Oh right... oof

 

[rexfan53]

He does Rolling Smash, which granted is a flip, but it's in no way graceful.

The best comparison I can think of is that Rex uses the Aegis Sword as a strength weapon and Pyra uses it as a finesse weapon. There are some similarities in how they fight since they both use the Blade Specials and such, but they would definitely play very differently in Super Smash Bros, especially since Rex & Pyra/Mythra would likely be much slower overall due to a higher focus on Xenoblade Chronicles 2's battle mechanics.


I doubt it. There's no one he could echo, and outright replacing Pyra and Mythra with Rex & Pyra/Mythra is about the cruelest thing you could do.

If they do anything, they'd add him alongside the two, but that would 1, be another addition of the same character on the roster so very few would get behind that, and 2, never happen because they need to represent the newest game in the series.

I think pyra and mythra rep the xc2 era as a whole a lot better than rex since rex only appears in one game. Mythra is in 2.
Maybe rex could be an echo of the next xenoblade protag but thats it

 

[SpectreJordan]

You know

thinking about the concert rumor

If it’s true and he was able to pull that off no issue

then maybe just maybe EVERYONE IS HERE can happen again...

I don’t think it’s impossible. Smash Ultimate is one of the biggest games ever released. I imagine the third parties wouldn’t object to trying again.

It just depends on company politics at the time. I can’t really see any relationships changing besides maybe Microsoft. That depends on if Phil Spencer is still head of Xbox or if his successor wants to play nice with Nintendo. Microsoft seems to see Tencent, Google & Amazon as their main competition now, so the Nintendo relationship could stay stable. Well have to see.