Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[GothicSlenderman]

Melee and Brawl were early enough in the series that the focus mostly went to fleshing out the perennial cast of the big franchises, which didn't leave much room for taking from the smaller successful series of the day, unfortunately.

Had Golden Sun 1&2 happened later to the same success, it seems very unlikely the roster wouldn't have reflected that. Series like that just reached prominence when first-party competition was at its thickest, and failed to maintain prominence thereafter. There were a lot of interesting, smaller series back then, and few remain reflected in Smash to any notable degree.

But it is pretty unfair that a series successful enough to be included when compared to other similar additions fails to get a single character when some others stack on the reps. Unfair, but business is business.

honestly, with how some franchises are treated I'm starting to wonder what Smash would be like if it never added guest characters

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

It just seems like you're projecting your own thoughts onto the dev team.

If anything Sakurai wanted both games in, like he said in his interview.

Yeah, I’m probably doing that. Sakurai definitely wanted both. I just feel Nintendo favored ARMS more is all.

 

[Idon]

I'm not quite sure Summer 2019 should be considered "the right time" all thing's considered.

C'mon the gap between FE3H and Astral Chain was one month.

They coulda easily considered it.

 

[BlondeLombax]

That only happened today? Yikes, don't tell the Geno fans.

I probably should have worded that better; today was more or less the final nail in the coffin, because instead of Rex, they went with Pyra and Mythra, forever leaving the poor boy in Limbo (at least for this game) This means that Eggman is the most likely Sonic candidate by default, since Tails has a Mii costume and is, therefore, out of the running.

 

[Shroob]

The ****ed up thing about it is.


Say that we finally kill Chun Leak come Pyra/Mythra's presentation, all leaks are dead, right?



Well, no. Hayabusa still exists in this weird nebulous. I've definitely considered him likely no doubt, but it's starting to be a real head scratcher as to his whereabouts the more time passes, and if the next character is the "E3" character, I dunno, I don't see him as a that kinda character, tbh.

 

[DevaAshera]

Yeah but my argument was that if Smash was intended to be Nintendo-centric, as some people want it to be, then Cloud and Joker actually wouldn't be the best choices to represent their franchises. In the current form of the Smash roster they most definitely are though.

And congrats on the solo Pyra. I also vastly prefer her solo over being paired with Rex (dear god his english voice acting is so painful to listen to). I'm hoping that if I congratulate enough Pyra fans, then the good karma will come back to me in the form of Phoenix Wright being playable in Smash.

I agree..and I'm very glad its not Nintendo-centric since I much prefer it to be a celebration of all video games (well, ones that could appear in a Nintendo game at least) rather than having a bias for Nintendo-centric content.

Thanks~ I love Phoenix Wright, he's not in my Top 10, but I definitely wouldn't mind him..he at least deserves a Mii Fighter Costume..but a character would be preferred just so I can get that ICONIC 'Cornered!' song..I always get hype when it triggers in the Ace Attorney games! Give him Maya as a partner or swap-in character and I am more than okay!

Combine that with the fact XBC2 has been out for a while, and it doesn’t fit the promotion pick status either. Min Min at least had the ARMS free weekend.

I think the ARMS Free Weekend came about because of Min Min in Smash, not the other way around.

Nintendo is still selling Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

If Min Min counts as a promotional character, Pyra absolutely does too.

I don't think either character was a promotional character..and if one was, it'd be Min Min due to ARMS not selling as well as Nintendo probably wanted whereas Xenoblade 2 exceeded expectations.

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like people get too wrapped up in thinking modern first parties are always there with the ulterior motive to sell you something. ARMS and Xenoblade 2 sold just fine on their own - no doubt being in Smash will help solidify their legacy, but they're beyond the need for an additional sales boost.

Throughout Smash we've always seen the roster updated to account for Nintendo's newest notable games and IPs, simply by nature of wanting to keep the roster fresh with Olimar, Shulk, Inkling, etc. Considering Sakurai wanted to add the aforementioned two games to the base roster but ultimately didn't have the time, I'm confident their inclusion is under a similar mindset.

Of course I think almost EVERY character is there to introduce new audiences to games they can, ideally, buy on the Nintendo Switch. But I think it undermines some of these characters to imply they're just trying to shill something. I feel like the choice of Min Min and Pyra over the most obvious grabs (Spring Man and Rex) already show a lot of care and passion went into these decisions aside from simply "unga bunga new Nintendo game".

ARMS not selling as well as Nintendo probably wanted whereas Xenoblade 2 exceeded expectations.

Funny enough, they both sold about two million copies.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Thoughts on Mythra & Pyra: I love them! Rex was among my wanteds but it doesn't bother me that we just got the blades who would have made up the majority of his moveset anyway. Since I've loved playing Pokemon Trainer since Brawl and I take to swordies like water, this is a character for me! I don't care that I play too many, this is an instant secondary. It's refreshing to finally get another transforming character, since we haven't gotten one since PT and ZSS! Man, I wonder how bonkers Zelda and Samus would be in Ultimate if they could still transform into their speedier counterparts. I'm really glad Xenoblade 2 is finally getting more love in Smash, and am super excited to play as the duo

Future predictions: The Hunter (or perhaps Palico as a longshot) from Monster Hunter really feels like the most likely character at the moment. It's super weird to have a boss, a stage that is nonplayable-only, two songs, and a spirit of said boss, and have no other content. This is the series that needs more content the most, imo. And with Rise coming out soon, it's more relevant now than ever. On top of that, Lloyd and the MH armor are our only two remaining Mii costumes from Smash 4 that haven't been added back in yet. I think they will be. With Rise going for a blue look for the protag, the red-orange of the Mii costume would even contrast well with the fighter.

I could see the Lloyd costume going three ways:
1) Lloyd becomes playable and it's the only costume that doesn't return. While I want Lloyd, I feel like this is the least likely outcome.
2) Yuri Lowell or maybe even someone else is our Tales rep
3) Lloyd's costume returns with Pyra & Mythra. Hate to say it, but they're JRPG swordies so it'd be a fitting costume to include.

I even had a pie-in-the-sky thought that maybe P&M's Sakurai Presents will pull a Banjo and give us a quick trailer for The Hunter at the end, seeing as how Rise's release won't be too far off from the Presents. And getting a Monster Hunter rep would be a great way to make the wait for E3 not seem as long as it otherwise might be if we get no new info till June. Though, come to think of it, I find The Hunter to be an E3-worthy reveal, easily. Especially since they could do what Three Houses did, and bump Rise with some DLC. Which E3 would be perfect timing for.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Thanks~ I love Phoenix Wright, he's not in my Top 10, but I definitely wouldn't mind him..he at least deserves a Mii Fighter Costume..but a character would be preferred just so I can get that ICONIC 'Cornered!' song..I always get hype when it triggers in the Ace Attorney games! Give him Maya as a partner or swap-in character and I am more than okay!

I think the ARMS Free Weekend came about because of Min Min in Smash, not the other way around.

Maybe, I kinda saw them as coming together. A couple of small but meaningful bits of promotion to push ARMS just a little bit further.

 

[Pillow]

C'mon the gap between FE3H and Astral Chain was one month.

They coulda easily considered it.

Oh for sure they could have

honestly, with how some franchises are treated I'm starting to wonder what Smash would be like if it never added guest characters

Probably less celebrated than it is now, though the hardcore Nintendo fans would be happy, and there's still a decent number of those

 

[N3ON]

Geno Fans

True... but oh honey if that wasn't the Golden Sun fans today, lol.

;_;

honestly, with how some franchises are treated I'm starting to wonder what Smash would be like if it never added guest characters

That's an interesting prospect that I've not really thought about.

I figure we'd just get more of things. More representation in the big series, and more representation of the smaller series. I imagine Isaac would be in, but past that the other unrepresented series are a little cloudier, since most from that era had already faded somewhat when the third-parties started getting especially prominent. Maybe Starfy, since he continued successfully a little past that.

It's hard to picture Smash having gone that route at this point, since third-party reveals and such have become such an intrinsic aspect.

I probably should have worded that better; today was more or less the final nail in the coffin, because instead of Rex, they went with Pyra and Mythra, forever leaving the poor boy in Limbo (at least for this game) This means that Eggman is the most likely Sonic candidate by default, since Tails has a Mii costume and is, therefore, out of the running.

I gotcha, was just being a stinker.

I do kinda disagree though. I think it reaffirms the thought that existed since... well since DLC started, really. I don't think at any point the consensus was that these characters were still on the table.

Probably less celebrated than it is now, though the hardcore Nintendo fans would be happy, and there's still a decent number of those

Comparatively, yes. But even by the second title in the series it was the best selling game on the system, so it'd still be quite a big deal, I reckon.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think either character was a promotional character

I've been trying to say Min Min wasn't just a promotional character for months.

I just feel like people are gonna say one is but the other isn't purely due to bias.

Both games sold really well and exceeded expectations. Heck, Spring-Tron was added because ARMS sold better than they thought.

 

[DevaAshera]

I've been trying to say Min Min wasn't just a promotional character for months.

I just feel like people are gonna say one is but the other isn't purely due to bias.

Both games sold really well and exceeded expectations. Heck, Spring-Tron was added because ARMS sold better than they thought.

Pretty much. People like there to be a 'reason' for a character getting in.
If they are old, they're legacy characters and iconic.
If they're new, they're promotional.
If they came from a popular game that isn't too new, it was due to popularity.
Min Min is a weird case for people..she's not old enough to be legacy, she's not from a popular game, and her game isn't new enough to be considered promotion..so some default to promotion to get more eyes on a 'dead' game..at least that's why I believe people think like that in regards to Min Min.

 

[Shroob]

Pretty much. People like there to be a 'reason' for a character getting in.
If they are old, they're legacy characters and iconic.
If they're new, they're promotional.
If they came from a popular game that isn't too new, it was due to popularity.
Min Min is a weird case for people..she's not old enough to be legacy, she's not from a popular game, and her game isn't new enough to be considered promotion..so some default to promotion to get more eyes on a 'dead' game..at least that's why I believe people think like that in regards to Min Min.

To me, Min Min is more along the lines of "The most popular of the then current new Nintendo IP that didn't flop."

Not really promotional, not really legacy, she's just a popular character.

 

[DevaAshera]

To me, Min Min is more along the lines of "The most popular of the then current new Nintendo IP that didn't flop."

Not really promotional, not really legacy, she's just a popular character.

I think so as well. She also meshes well with Sakurai enjoying adding new series to Super Smash Bros. I recall him lamenting how Pikmin was the newest Nintendo series for Brawl..so I could see why he chose her out of options Nintendo gave.

 

[Pillow]

True... but oh honey if that wasn't the Golden Sun fans today, lol.

;_;

Pouring one out for the Isaac bros....

Pretty much. People like there to be a 'reason' for a character getting in.
If they are old, they're legacy characters and iconic.
If they're new, they're promotional.

And if they came out between 2000 and 2010, then then their inclusion is fake news because Nintendo hates games and franchises from that era



Since there's been some discussion about discontent with Smash roster choices, here's an interesting game to play. Make your own Smash Ultimate roster, but it has to have the same size as the current roster as of CP8 (echoes/transformation characters count as one character) then post it here for everyone to judge!

 

[Deleted member]

We'll have to wait for the Sakurai presents but I'm fairly confident in the assumption Rex got passed on not because of his Mii Costume, but because Sakurai couldn't come up with a satisfactory moveset for him. Hence the next best thing. It makes the most sense to me, but who knows. It's gonna be interesting to see the inevitable Famitsu column on Pyra & Mythra, to say the least.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think Min Min and Pyra are both, "Let's help this series grow" choices.

Obviously not blatant promotion like Byleth because the ideal window for promoting both ARMS and XC2 has passed ages ago, but adding them could help make people more aware of their franchises going forward. Both are still relatively small compared to other IPs.

 

[Shroob]

So two Kirby hats?


Two Kirby hats.


....Pay no mind to any screaming you may hear.

pic.twitter.com/XwjFyiZqyY

— 光沢ゑるふ💙WELF_KOTAKU◇日曜 東地区 “Ｊ” ブロック 14b (@WELF_KOTAKU) February 18, 2021

 

[Nekoo]

We'll have to wait for the Sakurai presents but I'm fairly confident in the assumption Rex got passed on not because of his Mii Costume, but because Sakurai couldn't come up with a satisfactory moveset for him

We all know that Sakurai passed on Rex twice because he couldn't find a way to have this horrible design work a way or another.
I love Xeno 2
But Rex is a ****ing mistake from all possible points.

AND I SAY THAT AS SOMEONE WHO LIKE A NOMURA CHARACTER.

 

[Phoenixio]

Same, I wasn't that big a fan of the Rex prospect, but the way they handled the character looks neat. And it's nice that they went back to their IP. With Astral Chain being the next in line for their popular recent IPs, so I'm glad it gives them a boosted chance! And it'd be such an original character as well!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Min Min was coincidentally tied to something promotional, but she herself wasn't actually used to promote anything. The guessing game was used to promote ARMS to get people to check it out again. That's literally the beginning and end of it. It didn't matter who the ARMS character was in that regard, cause anyone could be added anyway. Since the literal character wasn't related to that point. Though it does help that she was requested by the creator to Nintendo, making it easy for them to talk to Sakurai about it. If it was just Nintendo choosing regardless of that, who knows who it would've been. Likely Spring Man or Ribbon Girl, though.

But yeah, popularity is her thing. Nothing wrong with that, after all~

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

yes

I see... you're a fan of Yu-Gi-Oh! GX as well.

 

[Cosmic77]

Meh. Rex isn't horrible. Plenty of areas that need polishing such as his voice, but I think he had potential.

Regardless, I think Pyra made more sense from a gameplay perspective. Gimmick is simple, but fitting all the same. Not very complicated either, which is something that probably can't be said for Rex had Pyra and Mythra been crammed in with him.

 

[PSIGuy]

We're probably getting more Xenoblade Chronicles remixes.

emphasis on probably
Byleth: 11 tracks, one remix (technically two, but it's just the Main Theme in two different languages)
Minmin: 18 tracks, two remixes (ARMS Grand Prix Official Theme Song and Ramen Bowl
Really depends on who on the music team was a XB2 fanboy, or if ACE+ really want to play all their own tracks again.

 

[Mamboo07]

So two Kirby hats?


Two Kirby hats.


....Pay no mind to any screaming you may hear.

pic.twitter.com/XwjFyiZqyY

— 光沢ゑるふ💙WELF_KOTAKU◇日曜 東地区 “Ｊ” ブロック 14b (@WELF_KOTAKU) February 18, 2021

Love how Rex's crying due to him being done dirty.
(Didn't get into Smash because too late, became a Mii Costume and now as part of Pyra & Mythra's taunts and Final Smash.)

 

[Shroob]

Meh. Rex isn't horrible. Plenty of areas that need polishing such as his voice, but I think he had potential.

Regardless, I think Pyra made more sense from a marketing perspective.

Ftfy


You know it to be true, we all do.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Back during base game speculation I favored Pyra over Rex for a while, as it always seemed like Pyra was the XC2 character people actually wanted, but I put that idea away after Sakurai said he'd have liked to have added Rex but couldn't due to timing, making it seem like Rex was always going to be the priority. Too bad I didn't stick with that, because Rex was the one character I was certain would be in the Pass, but not really because of the character himself, and moreso just because Nintendo very clearly view Xenoblade as their next big franchise and push it whenever possible. Would have been nice to have gotten a prediction right for once, but oh well.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I think Min Min and Pyra are both, "Let's help this series grow" choices.

Obviously not blatant promotion like Byleth because the ideal window for promoting both ARMS and XC2 has passed ages ago, but adding them could help make people more aware of their franchises going forward. Both are still relatively small compared to other IPs.

And well, wanna know a series that both Nintendo and the Smash team would love to help grow, because it's only now starting to become mainstream outside of Japan? The odds are currently very stacked in favor of Monster Hunter, methinks.

 

[Cosmic77]

Ftfy


You know it to be true, we all do.

I won't lie, had Rex been revealed today and I didn't have any prior knowledge of XC2, I would've been very confused by his outfit. Once I'd hear his first line, I'd be done.

And well, wanna know a series that both Nintendo and the Smash team would love to help grow, because it's only now starting to become mainstream outside of Japan? The odds are currently very stacked in favor of Monster Hunter, methinks.

I've been saying MH for months now. Maybe a large part of that is fueled by all the content that's gotten in Smash between Smash 4 and Ultimate, but it's become such an important franchise to Nintendo that it's hard for me to imagine them not asking Sakurai for a character.

People are ignoring the obvious if you ask me. Wouldn't surprise me if it's our E3 reveal.

 

[Shroob]

I won't lie, had Rex been revealed today and I didn't have any prior knowledge of XC2, I would've been very confused by his outfit. Once I'd hear his first line, I'd be done.



I've been saying MH for months now. Maybe a large part of that is fueled by all the content that's gotten in Smash between Smash 4 and Ultimate, but it's become such an important franchise to Nintendo that it's hard for me to imagine them not asking Sakurai for a character.

People are ignoring the obvious if you ask me. Wouldn't surprise me if it's our E3 reveal.

I'm not sleeping on MonHun, I'm just proceeding with caution, because the "Obvious" choices tend to blow up in our faces.


If the Mii costumes are missing from Pyra/Mythra's presentation, I'll be extremely suspect no doubt, but on the other hand, if they show up, I'd consider that probably a death sentence.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not sleeping on MonHun, I'm just proceeding with caution, because the "Obvious" choices tend to blow up in our faces.


If the Mii costumes are missing from Pyra/Mythra's presentation, I'll be extremely suspect no doubt, but on the other hand, if they show up, I'd consider that probably a death sentence.

The timing's perfect too as the presentation would be before Rise comes out. Don't think Nintendo would be too keen on promoting Rise after it goes multiplat after all

 

[SharkLord]

It might be a bit of bias or me missing/misremembering some points, but I'm beginning to realize just how much doubt is surrounding Lloyd. Ever since Heihachi, it feels like everyone and their mom has been expecting him to come back. Gil and Chocobo weren't paid much notice, Geno was extremely controversial, and Monster Hunter was propelled to frontrunner status after the MHR alarm clock, but Lloyd? It feels like he's been the cynicism magnet of this pass. Returning Miis, spread-out Bamco content, "If there was an upcoming Bamco character they'd be here already," etc.
It feels like each successive Mii wave has been increasingly tense for him, and given the connections via the action-RPG genre and the Xenoblade->Xenosaga->Bandai-Namco chain, I feel like this wave could be a make-or-break for him.

Though, after the sheer what-the-heckery of solo Aegis, I'm half-expecting the Tales fighter to be Velvet over him or Yuri.

 

[Shroob]

The timing's perfect too as the presentation would be before Rise comes out. Don't think Nintendo would be too keen on promoting Rise after it goes multiplat after all

That's the thing.

From a marketing standpoint, if there's no Capcom character, then March is THE time to put those costumes back in the game as a way of basically free advertisement for this extremely hyped up timed exclusive.


If P/M's presentation comes and they're still missing, missing the Rise release window? Something's hella fishy.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I won't lie, had Rex been revealed today and I didn't have any prior knowledge of XC2, I would've been very confused by his outfit. Once I'd hear his first line, I'd be done.



I've been saying MH for months now. Maybe a large part of that is fueled by all the content that's gotten in Smash between Smash 4 and Ultimate, but it's become such an important franchise to Nintendo that it's hard for me to imagine them not asking Sakurai for a character.

People are ignoring the obvious if you ask me. Wouldn't surprise me if it's our E3 reveal.

I thought the series was a strong contender for a while now. Even moreso once Rise was revealed, and since the characters we've gotten since then seem to be all about adding content to series that lacked it, just makes MH seem very likely.

I'm not sleeping on MonHun, I'm just proceeding with caution, because the "Obvious" choices tend to blow up in our faces.


If the Mii costumes are missing from Pyra/Mythra's presentation, I'll be extremely suspect no doubt, but on the other hand, if they show up, I'd consider that probably a death sentence.

On the contrary to my thinking that MH is very likely, this brings up a good point. The MH costume would fit well with Pyra&Mythra, being both from JRPGs and being duos.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It might be a bit of bias or me missing/misremembering some points, but I'm beginning to realize just how much doubt is surrounding Lloyd. Ever since Heihachi, it feels like everyone and their mom has been expecting him to come back. Gil and Chocobo weren't paid much notice, Geno was extremely controversial, and Monster Hunter was propelled to frontrunner status after the MHR alarm clock, but Lloyd? It feels like he's been the cynicism magnet of this pass. Returning Miis, spread-out Bamco content, "If there was an upcoming Bamco character they'd be here already," etc.
It feels like each successive Mii wave has been increasingly tense for him, and given the connections via the action-RPG genre and the Xenoblade->Xenosaga->Bandai-Namco chain, I feel like this wave could be a make-or-break for him.

Though, after the sheer what-the-heckery of solo Aegis, I'm half-expecting the Tales fighter to be Velvet over him or Yuri.

It's probably because Lloyd's been asked the longest out of the ones remaining and how his status as the obvious choics isn't as strong anymore

That's the thing.

From a marketing standpoint, if there's no Capcom character, then March is THE time to put those costumes back in the game as a way of basically free advertisement for this extremely hyped up timed exclusive.


If P/M's presentation comes and they're still missing, missing the Rise release window? Something's hella fishy.

I was gonna joke about it being Arthur instead but that doesn't work as the new GnG is ALSO a timed exclusive. Damn Capcom

 

[TheCJBrine]

Let's pause and think for a moment.

Today, we have officially decided that with Pyra & Mythra's inclusion, DLC Mii Fighter outfits are off the table.

However, I would like to point out that the franchises for DLC Mii Fighter outfits are still very much eligible for DLC.


This is how Eggman can still win.

I still feel Bomberman’s situation and Rex still being included as a taunt and final smash could go against this, but I guess we’re unlikely to get anymore promotions anyway besides maybe one more spirit promotion.

‘Guess we’ll have to see Sakurai’s reasoning for Rex not being the fighter. I really doubt it was because of a Mii though, especially one you couldn’t confuse for the actual Rex and was one that came before Pass 2 was planned or at least finished planning; maybe it’s just because they liked Pyra and Mythra more and figured they’re main characters too and they could still reflect Rex fighting with them.

If it was because of the Mii, that would be...very strange and dumb reasoning imo.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I still feel Bomberman’s situation and Rex still being included as a taunt and final smash could go against this, but I guess we’re unlikely to get anymore promotions anyway besides maybe one more spirit promotion.

‘Guess we’ll have to see Sakurai’s reasoning for Rex not being the fighter. I really doubt it was because of a Mii though, especially one you couldn’t confuse for the actual Rex and was one that came before Pass 2 was planned or at least finished planning; maybe it’s just because they liked Pyra and Mythra more and figured they’re main characters too and they could still reflect Rex fighting with them.

Sakurai never went over why Spring Man was passed over either though, even saying that someone else was considered. It's clearly the AT and costume that made him change his mind if you ask me

 

[Shroob]

I wonder what the "Promotion vs no promotion" debate will look like during the CP11 days in, give or take 4 months.


Assuming the June drop isn't a promotion, which, is probably a safe bet, and assuming no sudden "HAHA FP3 CONFIRMED!", will it be a warzone? Will people accept it's not happening? Will people be completely neutral on it one way or another?


It'll be interesting to see.

 

[StrangeKitten]

It's possible that the dev team would consider it kinda scummy to include a costume as either paid or a bonus for buying the full pass, only to turn around and sell the full character later. I disagree (doubt many people bought the full passes just to get the costumes, and for paid ones 75c is nothing, even for low-income people), but this could be how they view it.