Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[StrangeKitten]

I think M theory could go either way. There are a good handful of possible characters from M-rated games, but plenty of non-M characters too. It's a super vague theory and doesn't really help predict anything.

 

[Shroob]

Frankly, I don't even remember what ****ing spawned M theory.


I...."think" it had to do with the Mii costumes or some **** from M rated franchises?



I don't ****ing know. There's too many dumb theories anymore, why do you think I made mine to take the piss out of 'em?(Which...is...scarily coming true... help).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Frankly, I don't even remember what ****ing spawned M theory.


I...."think" it had to do with the Mii costumes or some **** from M rated franchises?



I don't ****ing know. There's too many dumb theories anymore, why do you think I made mine to take the piss out of 'em?(Which...is...scarily coming true... help).

It was Assassin's Creed, Fallout and No More Heroes not getting mentioned in the US streams where their respective Mii costumes got announced

 

[ProfPeanut]

Nice of them to scale back the hype on these additions, but at least most people can agree Xenoblade could've used another rep.

It really does seem like Fighters Pass 2 is the clean-up DLC pack, going after a lot of the things that they didn't have time for in base game Ultimate. That's pretty great for all the games released just a little bit too late to get into the design document, but less so for all the unrepresented franchises hoping to break into Smash while there's no missing veterans to account for. Perhaps there might be room for one (or even two) such newcomers, but it certainly looks like they're more focused on making Ultimate the best version of itself it can be representation-wise.

While we've historically ended on a low note with these character reveal orders, Pyra/Mythra dials expectations back to the same level that Min Min set them. I do wonder if 2021's character reveals might follow the same pattern that 2020's characters did, potentially going from a popular cartoony third-party to an extremely-hype one. Would be good to end on a high note for a change - but of course, that road of expectations has never really worked out for us. (But maybe, this time?...)

Also, I forget who it was who asked for female characters for so long, but I'm glad this Fighters Pass is really satiating them.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Alright, gotta state this now:

If Jin spirit doesn't have you fighting Sephiroth, I'm going to Japan to have a TED talk with Sakurai.

 

[Shroob]

It was Assassin's Creed, Fallout and No More Heroes not getting mentioned in the US streams where their respective Mii costumes got announced

Right, and it was at that point that they removed the series logos from the Fighter's Pass image.


Which they started off with for FP2, which some took to mean that FP2 has an M rated character in it somewhere.



That's what the theory was.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Frankly, I don't even remember what ****ing spawned M theory.


I...."think" it had to do with the Mii costumes or some **** from M rated franchises?



I don't ****ing know. There's too many dumb theories anymore, why do you think I made mine to take the piss out of 'em?(Which...is...scarily coming true... help).

The US streams had logos from M rated games replaced with the character name. For example, x Travis instead of x No More Heroes.

This coupled with the series logos being absent in US images of the Fighter Pass led to the idea that there was a character from an M rated game coming.

 

[Staarih]

The Japanese crowd really ate up the Direct last night, the videos for Pyra/Mythra and Splatoon 3 have like over twice the views of the respective English videos.
Though I guess we knew they are the demographic to really get hype about these.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So will the next DLC fighter will be Ryu (Ninja Gaiden/Dead or Alive)

bottomtext

 

[Shroob]

The Japanese crowd really ate up the Direct last night, the videos for Pyra/Mythra and Splatoon 3 have like over twice the views of the respective English videos.
Though I guess we knew they are the demographic to really get hype about these.

Not really surprising. The Japanese fans ****ing adore Splatoon, and XB2 was one of the most, if not the most, requested character for a Smash inclusion iirc.

 

[StrangeKitten]

And since we're now down to only two characters for this pass (and potentially the entire game), M theory is more of a crapshoot now than ever. I could see the pass end with Monster Hunter and Ryu Hayabusa, the latter of which would give us an M-rated character. I could see the pass end with Yuri Lowell and Eggman, giving no M-rated characters. There are so many viable candidates that it just comes down to luck whether we get an M-rated character or not.

Nice of them to scale back the hype on these additions, but at least most people can agree Xenoblade could've used another rep.

It really does seem like Fighters Pass 2 is the clean-up DLC pack, going after a lot of the things that they didn't have time for in base game Ultimate. That's pretty great for all the games released just a little bit too late to get into the design document, but less so for all the unrepresented franchises hoping to break into Smash while there's no missing veterans to account for. Perhaps there might be room for one (or even two) such newcomers, but it certainly looks like they're more focused on making Ultimate the best version of itself it can be representation-wise.

While we've historically ended on a low note with these character reveal orders, Pyra/Mythra dials expectations back to the same level that Min Min set them. I do wonder if 2021's character reveals might follow the same pattern that 2020's characters did, potentially going from a popular cartoony third-party to an extremely-hype one. Would be good to end on a high note for a change - but of course, that road of expectations has never really worked out for us. (But maybe, this time?...)

Also, I forget who it was who asked for female characters for so long, but I'm glad this Fighters Pass is really satiating them.

It's worth noting that in the past, they've always had more characters on the horizon. The dev team may not have viewed Corrin as a low note, or at least not felt like that mattered much, when Ultimate was just around the corner. Incineroar, Plant, and Byleth? Still had more characters coming soon. If FP2 is the final hurrah for Ultimate, maybe they'd finally want to go out with a bang. Master Chief, Crash, or especially Sora are characters that come to my mind as major high notes we could end on. Though of course, this is far from guaranteed.

 

[Speed Weed]

I think it was from Hobo Nichi interview. The company Shigesato Itoi made.
Sakurai is saying he wanted a female character to in but they couldn't find anyone, then the PR officer from Nintendo says that the girl from FDC was in consideration. Iwata asks, what was her specials? PR guy, "show a photo". LOL (everyone)
The interviewer is Yasuhiro Nagata from Hobo Nichi (former chief editor of Famitsu).

Yo WHAT

I've never seen this before. Makes me wonder what other pieces of less-documented Smash development info are out there

 

[N3ON]

It's questionable as to whether Ryu Hayabusa would satisfy M-theory considering the original games aren't rated M and they could easily use that logo.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I swear they could add Mallow from SMRPG and Felix from Golden Sun and people would still be saying Mii costumes and ATs don't deconfirm.

In Mallow’s case I’d still think they could’ve had other reasoning (though Sakurai’s comments on Geno coupled with Mallow getting in would have me leaning to at least DLC costumes disconfirming, though the price/business reason is making me lean that way now anyway), just Geno is very likely not happening at all after that (really only if they had a 3rd or 4th pass for some reason but more likely the next game), but Felix would make me definitely believe that since the situation wouldn’t be anything like Min Min, Pokémon nor Pyra/Mythra and may as well not happen if they really couldn’t use Isaac for a dumb reason.

(also I still think it’s possible Spring Man was considered alongside Ninjara and Min Min before the director’s choice made them settle on Min Min)

also I don’t see why Sakurai and Nintendo couldn’t just say they disconfirm, they don’t seem to have an issue saying no to other characters or say why they ended up as something else. I don’t like the idea of taking this as a hard fact we should all accept when it’s not even from any official word, like yeah it’s a possibility but geez. I personally just think it’s just bad reasoning aside from the price reasoning for DLC miis. I mean of course if y’all think that then that’s okay I’m just sharing my own thoughts and stuff, maybe I’m coming off wrong and sorry if I am...

 

[Pillow]

I swear they could add Mallow from SMRPG and Felix from Golden Sun and people would still be saying Mii costumes and ATs don't deconfirm.

Just because it’s the truth it doesn’t mean we have to believe it

Nah don't worry, we have even more ammo against that bull** now. Dumbasses will say "You see, Master Chief's games are far too gorey so he can't be in Smash" or whatever meanwhile last night they announced grown ass adults who are openly horny for a teenager with said teenager popping in for taunts and **

Bottom text, but Mortal Kombat is actually too gorey for Smash

View attachment 303827

ok

I really just got secondhand suffering from this picture LMAO

 

[Mamboo07]

Reminder that both Pyra and Mythra are the first characters to appear in Smash designed by a hentai artist.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Bottom text, but Mortal Kombat is actually too gorey for Smash

I don't like the franchise but it had a children's cartoon and they toned down Scorpion, Sub Zero and Raiden for the Injustice games. Ergo, they can be toned down for Smash

 

[PLATINUM7]

Reminder that both Pyra and Mythra are the first characters to appear in Smash designed by a hentai artist.

Brb, working on H theory.

 

[StrangeKitten]

The fact that Rex was a free incentive for pass 1 and they still skipped over him now tells me that even if a third pass happens, Geno is deconfirmed. He was by far my most wanted, but I know when to pack it up and go home.

Reminder that both Pyra and Mythra are the first characters to appear in Smash designed by a hentai artist.

They were the true M theory all along.

 

[Shroob]

It's questionable as to whether Ryu Hayabusa would satisfy M-theory considering the original games aren't rated M and they could easily use that logo.

That's the weird conundrum of Ninja Gaiden.

I daresay Ryu's more iconic design is his modern look, as opposed to the purple/blue look he had on the NES, and his arguably most famous move, Izuna Drop, originates from his 3D design iirc.

But, at the same time, seems like less trouble to just say "Actually he's the NES Ryu" or something along those lines, unless the ESRB has some weird rule or some ****.

 

[Pillow]

I don't like the franchise but it had a children's cartoon and they toned down Scorpion, Sub Zero and Raiden for the Injustice games. Ergo, they can be toned down for Smash

Anything can be censored, but this series in particular I don’t think should be censored. But everyone’s heard this conversation before already so I’ll drop it here.

Reminder that both Pyra and Mythra are the first characters to appear in Smash designed by a hentai artist.

Real talk, why do people keep bringing this up? I’m not sure about games, but a lot of very prolific manga artists started as H-artists it’s really not a big deal at all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's the weird conundrum of Ninja Gaiden.

I daresay Ryu's more iconic design is his modern look, as opposed to the purple/blue look he had on the NES, and his arguably most famous move, Izuna Drop, originates from his 3D design iirc.

But, at the same time, seems like less trouble to just say "Actually he's the NES Ryu" or something along those lines, unless the ESRB has some weird rule or some ****.

Oh it's a fact that Hayabusa's modern design is the more iconic one considering how the helmet makes him instantly recognizable. Funny enough his latest look uses the classic design

To celebrate the reveal of #NinjaGaiden: Master Collection, the development team have created the "Dragon Ninja" skin, which player can use to transform themselves into Ryu Hayabusa in #Nioh2CE #Nioh2PC #KTfamily #Nioh2 pic.twitter.com/eumllniKKT

— KOEI TECMO AMERICA (@KoeiTecmoUS) February 18, 2021

 

[N3ON]

That's the weird conundrum of Ninja Gaiden.

I daresay Ryu's more iconic design is his modern look, as opposed to the purple/blue look he had on the NES, and his arguably most famous move, Izuna Drop, originates from his 3D design iirc.

But, at the same time, seems like less trouble to just say "Actually he's the NES Ryu" or something along those lines, unless the ESRB has some weird rule or some ****.

The default design doesn't have to correspond with the logo. People will get the gist of what's going on.

I think they'd probably go for the modern one, but it is Sakurai, and he tends to favour the retro look. Either way, I imagine the other would just be an alt.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Modern Hayabusa with at least a couple alts for the retro look is how it should be done

 

[Cutie Gwen]

but this series in particular I don’t think should be censored

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize I was talking to Ed Boon, why the sudden change of heart as Injustice was done by you?

 

[Shroob]

The default design doesn't have to correspond with the logo. People will get the gist of what's going on.

I think they'd probably go for the modern one, but it is Sakurai, and he tends to favour the retro look. Either way, I imagine the other would just be an alt.

I don't doubt that, but I think the question is how does this all go down with the ESRB?


Obviously, Ryu wouldn't push the age rating of Smash higher, that's a given, but I feel like Ryu would mainly be pulling from his Modern design and appearances, which Sakurai may call reference to?


I dunno, I obviously don't buy M theory, to me, them removing the logos just feels like a stylistic choice, but Ryu is that big "???" of speculation.

 

[Heoj]

Because of time zones, the direct was at midnight for me, on a school night too which sucked, but there was no way i could risk getting spoiled so i watched it live.
Honestly I thought the direct was amazing! I had some issues with it but overall it was really good.

Rip Rex(honestly i preferred pyra+mythra anyways, no hate to rex tho, I still like him) but Pyra+Mythra is a really good choice that may not have been among my most wanted, but i still wanted nonetheless. I also don't understand the hate, like... you dont need to love the addition, but i feel like objectively, you do need to respect it. Xenoblade only having one rep was criminal, and getting 2 for the price of 1 is fantastic.

 

[N3ON]

I don't doubt that, but I think the question is how does this all go down with the ESRB?


Obviously, Ryu wouldn't push the age rating of Smash higher, that's a given, but I feel like Ryu would mainly be pulling from his Modern design and appearances, which Sakurai may call reference to?


I dunno, I obviously don't buy M theory, to me, them removing the logos just feels like a stylistic choice, but Ryu is that big "???" of speculation.

As long as he doesn't do anything that would necessitate an M rating like maim, draw blood, or call someone a ****ing piece of ****, and as long as the presentation refrains from using M-rated game logos and footage, which is easier with Ninja Gaiden than exclusively M-rated series, I imagine there wouldn't be a problem with the rating board.

Ryu Hayabusa is probably actually the easiest M-rated character to incorporate.

 

[Shroob]

As long as he doesn't do anything that would necessitate an M rating like maim, draw blood, or call someone a *ing piece of *, and as long as the presentation refrains from using M-rated game logos and footage, which is easier with Ninja Gaiden than exclusively M-rated series, I imagine there wouldn't be a problem with the rating board.

Ryu Hayabusa is probably actually the easiest M-rated character to incorporate.

I don't doubt it, I just think this theory is just, well, weak.


They had already removed the logos in the first pass after Terry's(?) presentation, so I think the question is why would they bring 'em back for the 2nd? It definitely FEELS like they removed them for some reason or another that we don't know for sure of, be it the M rated stuff happening with the Mii costumes from M rated series), or some other reason, but I dunno, the lack of a franchise title on the FP2 list isn't enough to make me buy this flimsy theory.


Now Fire Theory on the other hand is the one truth and the lord and savior of speculation. /s

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Because of time zones, the direct was at midnight for me, on a school night too which sucked, but there was no way i could risk getting spoiled so i watched it live.
Honestly I thought the direct was amazing! I had some issues with it but overall it was really good.

Rip Rex(honestly i preferred pyra+mythra anyways, no hate to rex tho, I still like him) but Pyra+Mythra is a really good choice that may not have been among my most wanted, but i still wanted nonetheless. I also don't understand the hate, like... you dont need to love the addition, but i feel like objectively, you do need to respect it. Xenoblade only having one rep was criminal, and getting 2 for the price of 1 is fantastic.

I honestly didn’t think of it that way, but it does alleviate the perceived problem of Fire Emblem getting bang for its buck every time and Xenoblade almost missing the boat twice. I’ll have to see how the moveset works to properly assess my feelings on the matter, since seeing Pyra/Myrthra as “finally xenoblade gets their own corrin” isn’t the greatest argument to raise morale for me.

This definitely feels like a character-first inclusion rather than incorporating the full combat system of Xenoblade 2 by so cruelly omitting Rex and this makes me feel like a cheaper addition. Though I can’t complain since Byleth was a bigger victim of that, just one of who I have played and very much enjoyed their game.

 

[ahemtoday]

Regarding Hayabusa. I think since his classic stuff is a platformer and therefore has much less to work with than the stylish action games I gather modern NG is. With that in mind, I think you put in his physics and basic attacks from the platformers, maybe a couple subweapons on the specials, and you're basically covered. You can fill in the rest with stuff from the modern games and Dead or Alive, and there's plenty of space for those too.

 

[Pillow]

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize I was talking to Ed Boon, why the sudden change of heart as Injustice was done by you?

In Smash, characters are depicted the way they are in their home series and not how they are as guests in other series. They bring other stuff with them like stages and spirits. There are other violent series in smash. Fire Emblem is violent. Bayonetta is violent and gorey. But there are no series as synonymous with over the top gore and violence as Mortal Kombat is. Most people who don’t know the game recognize it as that series with all the crazy fatalities. It is not that MK characters cannot be depicted in a non violent way, it’s that Nintendo likely does not want to associate a series like this with Smash Bros.

 

[Shroob]

I honestly didn’t think of it that way, but it does alleviate the perceived problem of Fire Emblem getting bang for its buck every time and Xenoblade almost missing the boat twice. I’ll have to see how the moveset works to properly assess my feelings on the matter, since seeing Pyra/Myrthra as “finally xenoblade gets their own corrin” isn’t the greatest argument to raise morale for me.

This definitely feels like a character-first inclusion rather than incorporating the full combat system of Xenoblade 2 by so cruelly omitting Rex and this makes me feel like a cheaper addition. Though I can’t complain since Byleth was a bigger victim of that, just one of who I have played and very much enjoyed their game.

I think calling Pyra/Mythra a Corrin is... really not a fair comparison, at all.


Corrin's game wasn't even out in the west, and barely out in Japan for only a handful of months.

Likewise, XB2's been out for what, 3? 4? years now?

 

[N3ON]

I don't doubt it, I just think this theory is just, well, weak.


They had already removed the logos in the first pass after Terry's(?) presentation, so I think the question is why would they bring 'em back for the 2nd? It definitely FEELS like they removed them for some reason or another that we don't know for sure of, be it the M rated stuff happening with the Mii costumes from M rated series), or some other reason, but I dunno, the lack of a franchise title on the FP2 list isn't enough to make me buy this flimsy theory.


Now Fire Theory on the other hand is the one truth and the lord and savior of speculation. /s

Oh, I'm just talking about the logos in the trailers with the Smash x whatever part. I don't think they'll be back on the pass picture.

And this is really less about the theory being true or not and more just how they'd implement Ryu with these newer restrictions. Luckily he has workarounds other M-rated characters don't. I mean the characters are already decided, and were so prior to the changes, so it'd just be interesting to see how they handled an M-rated one.

But I do think the logos on the picture were removed due to the new rating rules. Persona's would have to be axed, and I think all the others just got removed as well for the sake of consistency. So I don't think it's inherently a sign of anything, but we might get another M-rated character just because we might get another M-rated character.

However, something worth noticing is that the logos remain on the site, and remain in the game. So... it's an odd situation all around.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think calling Pyra/Mythra a Corrin is... really not a fair comparison, at all.


Corrin's game wasn't even out in the west, and barely out in Japan for only a handful of months.

Likewise, XB2's been out for what, 3? 4? years now?

I’m not talking about the quality or recency of the game here, moreso about the sort of 1-to-1 mapping Fire Emblem gets when it comes to including the protagonists of the new games in Smash, whereas Xenoblade would‘ve missed out twice (Xenoblade X and 2) if they didn’t include Pyra/Myrthra. That’s the angle I was going for, though I understand that mentioning Corrin specifically was a needlessly snarky and misrepresenting remark on my part and that they’re overall much closer to Byleth if we stick to the FE-Xenoblade comparison

 

[Shroob]

I’m not talking about the quality or recency of the game here, moreso about the sort of 1-to-1 mapping Fire Emblem gets when it comes to including the protagonists of the new games in Smash, whereas Xenoblade would‘ve missed out twice (Xenoblade X and 2) if they didn’t include Pyra/Myrthra. That’s the angle I was going for, though I understand that mentioning Corrin specifically was a needlessly snarky and misrepresenting remark on my part and that they’re overall much closer to Byleth if we stick to the FE-Xenoblade comparison

I mean, I don't get the comparison to Fire Emblem of all things, frankly.

Fire Emblem has a lot of characters, and is almost guaranteed to get the newest main character every game, much like a new Pokemon is all but guaranteed.


Xenoblade had a single character up until now, and was pretty anemic on content all things considered. Like, I don't think Xenoblade's going to suddenly become the "We include the new protagonist every game" IP, and if it does, well, who even knows when the next Smash will be?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I mean, I don't get the comparison to Fire Emblem of all things, frankly.

Fire Emblem has a lot of characters, and is almost guaranteed to get the newest main character every game, much like a new Pokemon is all but guaranteed.


Xenoblade had a single character up until now, and was pretty anemic on content all things considered. Like, I don't think Xenoblade's going to suddenly become the "We include the new protagonist every game" IP, and if it does, well, who even knows when the next Smash will be?

Mostly because Heoj mentioned that, at the very least, Pyrthra is a new character for a series that has had only one character so far and I ofren saw comparisons between Elma and Corrin back in Smash 4 days and the Rex fanbase being confused that Byleth was able to get in when Xenoblade 2 released too late for base game. I’m merely using that comparison, which I guess is less commonplace than I thought it was

 

[Pillow]

I mean, I don't get the comparison to Fire Emblem of all things, frankly.

Fire Emblem has a lot of characters, and is almost guaranteed to get the newest main character every game, much like a new Pokemon is all but guaranteed.


Xenoblade had a single character up until now, and was pretty anemic on content all things considered. Like, I don't think Xenoblade's going to suddenly become the "We include the new protagonist every game" IP, and if it does, well, who even knows when the next Smash will be?

Yeah the appearance of Min Min and Pyra seems to indicate more than anything that Nintendo is trying to be more inclusive of its new IPs. In a way it feels like these characters are added to promote the entire series rather than a specific game like fire emblem or pokemon. I think an astral chain character is much more likely for the next smash than another xenoblade or arms character even if those series get sequels in the meantime.

 

[Shroob]

Nintendo VS Twitter: "Find out about them soon!"

Amiibo theory: points to late March



Big hmmst.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In Smash, characters are depicted the way they are in their home series and not how they are as guests in other series. They bring other stuff with them like stages and spirits. There are other violent series in smash. Fire Emblem is violent. Bayonetta is violent and gorey. But there are no series as synonymous with over the top gore and violence as Mortal Kombat is. Most people who don’t know the game recognize it as that series with all the crazy fatalities. It is not that MK characters cannot be depicted in a non violent way, it’s that Nintendo likely does not want to associate a series like this with Smash Bros.

They literally added 2 grown ass adults who are horny for a teenager mere hours ago. They do not care about potential issues with the games getting represented