Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That and it mentions that both Crash and Spyro are playable, which I don't think will happen unless it was a specific request from Activision themselves.

Even with that I don't think they'd do both.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The most I can see from Spyro is a hat honestly, assuming Crash gets in.

 

[RileyXY1]

The most I can see from Spyro is a hat honestly, assuming Crash gets in.

Mostly because Spyro's series was such a massive flop in Japan.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm still wondering if he could get in though Skylanders. I don't know how big the series is/was over in Japan but I imagine it at least existed.

 

[Inue Houji]

Why do people think Crash is so likely? All I know is that he's popular, and Crash 4's release date matches the presumed announcement of CP9.

 

[RileyXY1]

Even with that I don't think they'd do both.

In the scenario I envisioned, it was basically Activision saying that they can't add Crash to the game unless they also add Spyro.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm still wondering if he could get in though Skylanders. I don't know how big the series is/was over in Japan but I imagine it at least existed.

It did but only the first game from what I can tell, it was also on the Wii U so...

 

[SharkLord]

From what I can gather, Omega is the last of the E-Series, hence the name. Gamma destroyed all of them and then himself, and Eggman never went back to rebuild them. As a result, Omega's the only E-Series robot we see anymore.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Why do people think Crash is so likely? All I know is that he's popular, and Crash 4's release date matches the presumed announcement of CP9.

theres also a leaked 5 year plan document for plans regard crash. i dont think weve been able to confirm it but it's very possible Crash for Smash is among said plans

 

[SneakyLink]

I'm still wondering if he could get in though Skylanders. I don't know how big the series is/was over in Japan but I imagine it at least existed.

I think Skylanders is long gone so I don't think Spyro's chances of getting in through this series could work.

Besides, it would only happen if the Spyro amiibo could also function in Skylanders games, which probably won't happen either, but would be awesome.

 

[chocolatejr9]

theres also a leaked 5 year plan document for plans regard crash. i dont think weve been able to confirm it but it's very possible Crash for Smash is among said plans

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting to see Liam Robertson upload his video about the current state of the franchise. I think he may have implied on Twitter that the "Crash in Smash" leak is fake, but I don't have a source, so don't quote me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It did but only the first game from what I can tell, it was also on the Wii U so...

Absolutely not then. Alright.

 

[RileyXY1]

Why do people think Crash is so likely? All I know is that he's popular, and Crash 4's release date matches the presumed announcement of CP9.

I don't either. In my opinion Crash's chances are heavily overinflated.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Why do people think Crash is so likely? All I know is that he's popular, and Crash 4's release date matches the presumed announcement of CP9.

Things are seemingly lining up for them despite this having happened with plenty of characters that were certainly locks but didn't turn out to be the case.

Reasons for this.

Highly demanded character, 90s video game icon and mascot with legendary rivalry with Mario and Sonic, revival of the franchise with the N. Sane Trilogy, Crash 4 being announced for the Switch, etc.

 

[RileyXY1]

Things are seemingly lining up for them despite this having happened with plenty of characters that were certainly locks but didn't turn out to be the case.

Reasons for this.

Highly demanded character, 90s video game icon and mascot with legendary rivalry with Mario and Sonic, revival of the franchise with the N. Sane Trilogy, Crash 4 being announced for the Switch, etc.

Basically, don't be surprised if he doesn't get in, especially considering that I don't expect any more Western characters.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Basically, don't be surprised if he doesn't get in, especially considering that I don't expect any more Western characters.

I honestly don't tbh. If you ask me, folks I'm feeling are overestimating and confident on his chances of getting in and feels like the Sm4sh days all over again regarding King K. Rool who was certain to get in as DLC and the ballot winner but didn't. Seems folks apparently haven't learned...

And this comes from someone who used to think Crash was a lock or guaranteed.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My problem with arguments against Crash and a few others is that they're almost solely based on the premise that everyone predicts them so naturally they won't be of the chosen. That's not how things work. The character picks aren't inherently contradictory to our beliefs, we just don't have enough information to really make any accurate predictions. EDIT: The distinction here being that while we're not normally right, we're also not incapable of being right, even if through sheer dumb luck.

"That doesn't change the fact that there's still a chance that he won't get in."

While that will always be true, it will also always be unhelpful since it's the case with all characters.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I'm still wondering if he could get in though Skylanders. I don't know how big the series is/was over in Japan but I imagine it at least existed.

From what I've gathered on google, the Yokai Watch craze essentially blocked any chance of Skylanders being successful in Japan.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

As Sol's gotten more discussion as of late I feel I should suggest something I really ****ing want if he gets in. I want Midnight Carnival to get remixed... But it also adds a short solo, specifically, this one

Not like I-No's other victory animation could get referenced

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

From what I've gathered on google, the Yokai Watch craze essentially blocked any chance of Skylanders being successful in Japan.

And thus with a bitter venom from its breath Skylanders cursed Yokai Watch to not catch on in America.

 

[chocolatejr9]

From what I've gathered on google, the Yokai Watch craze essentially blocked any chance of Skylanders being successful in Japan.

Speaking of Yo-kai Watch, let's talk about Jibanyan in Smash.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

My problem with arguments against Crash and a few others is that they're almost solely based on the premise that everyone predicts them so naturally they won't be of the chosen. That's not how things work. The character picks aren't inherently contradictory to our beliefs, we just don't have enough information to really make any accurate predictions. EDIT: The distinction here being that while we're not normally right, we're also not incapable of being right, even if through sheer dumb luck.

"That doesn't change the fact that there's still a chance that he won't get in."

While that will always be true, it will also always be unhelpful since it's the case with all characters.

We’re not wrong because roster decisions are made to be contrarian, it’s just that we suck at predictions.

 

[Perkilator]

Why do people think Crash is so likely? All I know is that he's popular, and Crash 4's release date matches the presumed announcement of CP9.

Speaking as a Crash fan and supporter since 2017, Crash has simply had a lot going for him since his revival with the N. Sane Trilogy, with only a few possible setbacks. That, and he’s a gaming icon who simply makes perfect since to be in the same game as Mario, Snake, Sonic, Cloud, etc.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

We’re not wrong because roster decisions are made to be contrarian, it’s just that we suck at predictions.

Literally what I said except it didn't leap through a thesaurus...

I feel like that means that I should make an effort to not talk like that one character in kid's cartoons who's personality is science.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I feel like that means that I should make an effort to not talk like that one character in kid's cartoons who's personality is science.

I'd be full of sodium chloride if I had to do that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd be full of sodium chloride if I had to do that.

Indubitably.

 

[Louie G.]

My problem with arguments against Crash and a few others is that they're almost solely based on the premise that everyone predicts them so naturally they won't be of the chosen.

I mean, people have provided general skepticism toward Crash grounded more in the additional obstacles of western characters and simple reminders that a character being mentioned a lot and being objectively "iconic" doesn't immediately make them likely. Nintendo's connection with Activision not being as strong as most other companies they've collaborated with, Crash's popularity for Smash being a fairly new thing and many of these decisions having foundation from nearly four or five years ago...

Crash is simply a character whose legacy and popularity, particularly over the last few years, has single-handedly made him a frontrunner. That's fine too, it just doesn't put him over the likes of someone like Hayabusa or Monster Hunter in my eyes who have a lot more direct points in their favor than "popular and iconic". And for all we know maybe none of those three will make it, not like I'm trying to say I have any better idea than you do, but like...

It's the responsibility of the one predicting to tell me WHY Crash should be anticipated, not necessarily the responsibility of me or other skeptics to say why he won't. That goes for any character really, because any character can make it, but we've only got three spots left. Crash is a worthy candidate, he's popular and iconic, and that may very well be enough to get him through. But "he's popular and iconic" is pretty much the sole basis for the arguments in his favor, just as "he's too obvious" is in your mind the sole point against him... and "popular and iconic" can apply to any number of characters still absent. There isn't really a lot of of insightful discussion to be had about this character, really. It's very much a wait and see sort of thing.

But I think labeling him as the single most likely character is wrong, personally.

 

[Lyncario]

The second part of that Top 10 article is now out.

View attachment 303196

Click here to give it a read​

My own thoughts:
I personally don't think #3 should be here as I think he is really overrated in regards to his chances. Everyone else (yes, even #4) I can see happening though.

Now that the full thing is out, I'll give my thoughs on it.

First of all, why is Doomguy still taken into consideration after he got disconfirmed trough an interview a while ago.

Second, Eggman is both a perfect and terrible fit for this kind of list. He's a terrible because he showscase how this fanbase is unable to do anything but follow bandwagons, leading it to be unable to predict characters 99% of the time, but it's also good because of that exact same reason, making it a good case study as to why the Smash fanbase never learns. Could have also worked pre-Sephiroth if it was Fortnite man instead of Eggman.

Rayman feels like he should be a bit lower since the reasoning for him feels a bit weak compared to the rest of the reasonings, so I'd probably put him at 10 and bump Xenoblade someone to 9 or 8.

Otherwise it's classic stuff, really I have nothing to say on Xenoblade someone, Lloyd, and Monster Hunter, because that's classic stuff with good reasoning in my opinion.

The top 5 surprises me by starting with Sol Badguy who I find to be extremly well rated for the good reasons, so that's a really good job for that one.

And then right after that a disapointment with pokemon being not only on the top 10 but also so high. No, it's not a ocmparable situation to Byleth, thoufh at least kudos for mentioning something else than Sword and Shield in one of the write-ups.

And the top 3 was the expected Dante-Hayabusa-Crash trio we hear about since the begining of FP2. Nothing to say except that no, Crash isn't the most likely character, many characters have as much and also more going for them than Crash does.

Overall, it was an alright top, even if Eggman and Pokemon whoever made my eyes roll a bit. It was well written with the reasoning being good for the most part.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, people have provided general skepticism toward Crash grounded more in the additional obstacles of western characters and simple reminders that a character being mentioned a lot and being objectively "iconic" doesn't immediately make them likely. Nintendo's connection with Activision not being as strong as some other companies they've collaborated with, Crash's popularity for Smash being a fairly new thing and many of these decisions having foundation from nearly four or five years ago...

Crash is simply a character whose legacy and popularity, particularly over the last few years, has single-handedly made him a frontrunner. That's fine too, it just doesn't put him over the likes of someone like Hayabusa or Monster Hunter in my eyes who have a lot more direct points in their favor than "popular and iconic". And for all we know maybe none of those three will make it, not like I'm trying to say I have any better idea than you do, but like...

It's the responsibility of the one predicting to tell me WHY Crash should be anticipated, not necessarily the responsibility of me or other skeptics to say why he won't. That goes for any character really, because any character can make it, but we've only got three spots left. Crash is a worthy candidate, he's popular and iconic, and that may very well be enough to get him through. But "he's popular and iconic" is pretty much the sole basis for the arguments in his favor, just as "he's too obvious" is in your mind the sole point against him... and "popular and iconic" can apply to any number of characters still absent. There isn't really a lot of of insightful discussion to be had about this character, really. It's very much a wait and see sort of thing.

But I think labeling him as the single most likely character is wrong, personally.

This post reminds me of something Joe Merrick, the guy behind Serebii, once said involving fake leaks. It's up to the rumours to prove that they're credible, not to skeptists to prove that they're fakes. I say this because I agree that supporters of a character can and should find ways to convince people their characters are worth talking about, it's why I'm usually happy when someone makes a lengthy post to explain to me why their characters would be fun, SKX31 usually managing to make me go "oh damn that DOES sound cool".

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Now that the full thing is out, I'll give my thoughs on it.

First of all, why is Doomguy still taken into consideration after he got disconfirmed trough an interview a while ago.

Second, Eggman is both a perfect and terrible fit for this kind of list. He's a terrible because he showscase how this fanbase is unable to do anything but follow bandwagons, leading it to be unable to predict characters 99% of the time, but it's also good because of that exact same reason, making it a good case study as to why the Smash fanbase never learns. Could have also worked pre-Sephiroth if it was Fortnite man instead of Eggman.

Rayman feels like he should be a bit lower since the reasoning for him feels a bit weak compared to the rest of the reasonings, so I'd probably put him at 10 and bump Xenoblade someone to 9 or 8.

Otherwise it's classic stuff, really I have nothing to say on Xenoblade someone, Lloyd, and Monster Hunter, because that's classic stuff with good reasoning in my opinion.

The top 5 surprises me by starting with Sol Badguy who I find to be extremly well rated for the good reasons, so that's a really good job for that one.

And then right after that a disapointment with pokemon being not only on the top 10 but also so high. No, it's not a ocmparable situation to Byleth, thoufh at least kudos for mentioning something else than Sword and Shield in one of the write-ups.

And the top 3 was the expected Dante-Hayabusa-Crash trio we hear about since the begining of FP2. Nothing to say except that no, Crash isn't the most likely character, many characters have as much and also more going for them than Crash does.

Overall, it was an alright top, even if Eggman and Pokemon whoever made my eyes roll a bit. It was well written with the reasoning being good for the most part.

every day im just so, SO glad that alternate timeline in the bolded sentence didn't happen, that we got Sephiroth instead of Fortnite guy

ps. like someone said earlier, apparently the fortnite no comment thing was a troll? can anyone verify? i imagine all that talk about Troy Baker (who voiced Jonesy) having a role in Smash was also trolling. i hope, at least, and that it doesn't happen for real later

unless it's a diff troy baker role like yuri lowell, ill be fine w that

 

[Louie G.]

Eggman on the list would have been a bit easier for me to swallow if Chun-Li got acknowledged at all. Everything in his favor applies doubly to her (iconic character in their own right, an obvious next step for expanding on third party franchises already represented), aside from "Sonic needs a new rep more" which is obviously totally arbitrary as is.

I think people will continue to speculate about Chun-Li beyond the next fighter (unless they are from Capcom... but anyway, I know I will) while Eggman will phase out quite a lot. Still will be popular, I'm not denying his genuine support, but not anticipated.

The "bandwagon" (although I hate using this word) applies a bit more to him on the basis of seeing this mentality of "Smash needs more villains" rise up again... I see it less as "additional reps!", which is simply another broken barrier like third parties (Snake, Sonic) and characters with loose association toward Nintendo (Cloud, Joker), and more under that other lens. Personally I think Sephiroth's emphasis on being a big iconic boss character kills Eggman's chances on arrival if anything.

(I'm not trying to make it a one character vs another thing, for what it's worth. I just think there's some nuance there that people don't recognize.)

First of all, why is Doomguy still taken into consideration after he got disconfirmed trough an interview a while ago.

I thought about this too. I think it's insane how Doomguy is one of the few characters who got about as close to a disconfirmation as possible and people talk about him as if that just never happened lmao. I mean, maybe they'll surprise us I dunno. Just jarring to me how people seem to ignore that entirely.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I really did wish Grinch Leak 2.0 was real...I would had been satisfied.

2B, Amaterasu, and Crash making it all up for me.

It was a solid pass! Hayabusa, Amaterasu and Sol(clearing the path for Kunio in the future)? I'd be happy with that!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'd love for Eggman himself but not sure if Pass 2 will double dip on two villains tbh. Now if at the possible chance we get a Pass 3 or post-Pass 2 individual DLC then I can perhaps see it.

Not to say said double dip isn't possible, I just don't think its likely to occur.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Second, Eggman is both a perfect and terrible fit for this kind of list. He's a terrible because he showscase how this fanbase is unable to do anything but follow bandwagons, leading it to be unable to predict characters 99% of the time, but it's also good because of that exact same reason, making it a good case study as to why the Smash fanbase never learns. Could have also worked pre-Sephiroth if it was Fortnite man instead of Eggman.

Dr. Eggman is not a fad. Yes he's only discussed because of Sephiroth, but that's because Sephiroth put him on the table in the first place. Same with Chun-Li. If the notion that 3rd party series can't get more than one full playable character hadn't existed then both characters would have been just as heavily considered long before now.

 

[7NATOR]

Now that the full thing is out, I'll give my thoughs on it.

First of all, why is Doomguy still taken into consideration after he got disconfirmed trough an interview a while ago.

Second, Eggman is both a perfect and terrible fit for this kind of list. He's a terrible because he showscase how this fanbase is unable to do anything but follow bandwagons, leading it to be unable to predict characters 99% of the time, but it's also good because of that exact same reason, making it a good case study as to why the Smash fanbase never learns. Could have also worked pre-Sephiroth if it was Fortnite man instead of Eggman.

Rayman feels like he should be a bit lower since the reasoning for him feels a bit weak compared to the rest of the reasonings, so I'd probably put him at 10 and bump Xenoblade someone to 9 or 8.

Otherwise it's classic stuff, really I have nothing to say on Xenoblade someone, Lloyd, and Monster Hunter, because that's classic stuff with good reasoning in my opinion.

The top 5 surprises me by starting with Sol Badguy who I find to be extremly well rated for the good reasons, so that's a really good job for that one.

And then right after that a disapointment with pokemon being not only on the top 10 but also so high. No, it's not a ocmparable situation to Byleth, thoufh at least kudos for mentioning something else than Sword and Shield in one of the write-ups.

And the top 3 was the expected Dante-Hayabusa-Crash trio we hear about since the begining of FP2. Nothing to say except that no, Crash isn't the most likely character, many characters have as much and also more going for them than Crash does.

Overall, it was an alright top, even if Eggman and Pokemon whoever made my eyes roll a bit. It was well written with the reasoning being good for the most part.

I agree with your analysis, but I got to discuss the bolded point

The characters are already decided, So Sephiroth's inclusion shows that they are willing to not only go for Unique characters from Represented 3rd parties, but also go for the Villain characters in DLC

Which is why people are paying attention to characters like Eggman. You also might be suggesting that Eggman and Sephroth both being villains from Represented 3rd parties are traits that can only be shared by one character, when I'm not sure if that's the case. The people being excited for Sephiroth would be different overall for the people excited for Eggman, because they both appeal to different audiences

Also on Fortnite, The reason Fortnite was talked about heavily was because of the No comment thing, not just because of Steve. the only thing Steve impacted was that it showed Nintendo were willing to go for more of the newer, bigger titles. If anything, Travis was a bigger reason Fortnite was speculated because of his No comment situation.

All the character choices show is that the character choices are more expansive than what might be thought previously. Yes people might bandwagon, but even then I don't think there's anything inherently bad about bandwagoning or so easily changing your stance when Evidence shows there might be good reason too.

If people are predicting Eggman, it's because of his own merits and not because Sephiroth got in. Sephiroth only shows that the avenue for a roster slot isn't closed to characters like Eggman

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think at this point Doom Slayer's chances are dead in the water.

If we're to get another western rep its likely Crash which even then I don't think is happening along with Master Chief (Who I think is being slept on and has potential being the E3 reveal this year). I would even put Rayman over him.

 

[Louie G.]

If we're to get another western rep its likely Crash which even then I don't think is happening along with Master Chief (Who I think is being slept on and has potential being the E3 reveal this year). I would even put Rayman over him.

Honestly, if people feel strongly about the prospect of a Bethesda character they should probably shift their attention toward Dovahkiin. I think he's slept on a little bit, with Skyrim being quite popular in Japan and being one of the definitive games of the last decade.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

With Eggman and Chun Li specifically I think there's also an unspoken assumption about the competition from their respective companies. Not to say that people haven't made good cases for the likes of Arle, but after Bayonetta and Joker I think many believe the next major Sega would be someone from Sonic and that he fits the bill for that.

By contrast Capcom is so loaded with notable names (and franchises) that even though she's likely the most undisputed next SF character (and probably Capcom fighter character period) that her chances get seen as shakier given the other IP's she's facing.

Honestly, if people feel strongly about the prospect of a Bethesda character they should probably shift their attention toward Dovahkiin. I think he's slept on a little bit, with Skyrim being quite popular in Japan and being one of the definitive games of the last decade.

And like Sephiroth & Steve would be a character much more heavily speculated some time ago suddenly surprising people with their inclusion long after.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Honestly, if people feel strongly about the prospect of a Bethesda character they should probably shift their attention toward Dovahkiin. I think he's slept on a little bit, with Skyrim being quite popular in Japan and being one of the definitive games of the last decade.

Ah yes him too.

Him and Master Chief I think are being especially slept on for the E3 reveal. I can see either of them or Chun-Li.

 

[RileyXY1]

Ah yes him too.

Him and Master Chief I think are being especially slept on for the E3 reveal. I can see either of them or Chun-Li.

I don't really see Master Chief because I don't know if they would double dip and give Microsoft two fighters in this Fighter Pass, as well as 3 total DLC characters.