Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[chocolatejr9]

well that was a quick deconformation to that leak, RIP it barely lived.

We learned our lesson from last time, it seems.

Though for me, it was the fact they used Kubfu instead of Urshifu.

 

[SpecterFlower]

I think the latter half of this pass is going to be more experimental and... weird. it's just the feeling im getting.

 

[ahemtoday]

It's Divine Retribution. The color is kind of like a rusted copper or bronze, but it's definitely green, and the fire effects are trying to be consistent with Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's portrayal of them, being yellow in the center, then fading to red at the edges, but it's a bit too yellow.

Huh? It's so small, though. It's, like, half the size it should be. And it's tilted weirdly toward the camera. And I still don't see the red in the fire.

 

[Knight Dude]

Sol would be a really cool character too. Though he does have a lot of special moves compared to Ryu/Ken and Terry. Gunflame, Volcanic Viper, Fafnir, Bandit Revolver, Bandit Bringer, That flying kick, a Mishima style uppercut(I forget the exact name) and the dive kick.

And obviously I'm supporting Hayabusa's inclusion. Though obviously this is fake. Piggybacking off of another leak and the like.

But isn't Waluigi already a sort of Frankenstein? I mean, he's literally the Wario to Luigi.

Well yeah. He's a reflection of an off-shoot of the original. But much like how Wario is such an exaggerated Mario that he couldn't work as an ideal clone character. The same kind of goes for Waluigi I think. Dude's too lanky to be a Luigi echo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Huh? It's so small, though. It's, like, half the size it should be. And it's tilted weirdly toward the camera. And I still don't see the red in the fire.

There's very little red. It's pretty much just some of the edges.

The Divine Instrument is definitely supposed to be Divine Retribution, it's just not that accurate. Considering Amaterasu's posing makes it look like she just saw the most amazing thing in her entire life and is super excited so I wouldn't really expect perfection anyway.

 

[dream1ng]

well that was a quick deconformation to that leak, RIP it barely lived.

No leak that repurposes preexisting art is going to stick around long.

 

[ahemtoday]

There's very little red. It's pretty much just some of the edges.

The Divine Instrument is definitely supposed to be Divine Retribution, it's just not that accurate. Considering Amaterasu's posing makes it look like she just saw the most amazing thing in her entire life and is super excited so I wouldn't really expect perfection anyway.

I-Is she excited? She honestly looks like she's looking to the side with her back to the camera.

Like this:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I-Is she excited? She honestly looks like she's looking to the side with her back to the camera.

You're missing a bit of hear head. Her mouth is wide open.

Or it's too blurry to discern what the heck you're looking at.

 

[SvartWolf]

why people still think that real leaks came from some kind of 5 mm microcameras fixed in some cold war spy shoe that was frozen in a glacier and just thawed but didnt get the memo that cellphones exist now?

 

[Cosmic77]

The full artwork of six characters being leaked this early on top of the fact that we're supposed to believe we're getting at least three more characters after this pass should've keyed people in on the validity of this leak.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I mean hey, at least it was something new to talk about. Even if it lasted like... two seconds.

 

[Will]

Has anybody talked about this thing yet? It was posted on the Ryu Hayabusa thread.

It looks pretty convincing

It looks pretty convincing

If you look real close you can see the word 'gullible' in the picture.

 

[SharkLord]

I feel like this would be a lot more fun to speculate about if you could, y'know, actually see the dang characters

 

[Guynamednelson]

I feel like this would be a lot more fun to speculate about if you could, y'know, actually see the dang characters

why people still think that real leaks came from some kind of 5 mm microcameras fixed in some cold war spy shoe that was frozen in a glacier and just thawed but didnt get the memo that cellphones exist now?

But then you would see all their Photoshop mistakes!

 

[Commander_Alph]

Has anybody talked about this thing yet? It was posted on the Ryu Hayabusa thread.
View attachment 303114
It looks pretty convincing, but it could be just Grinch leak Mk.II here. Looking like the latter the more I look at it.

Idk how someone on the Hayabusa thread get this image, I don't wanna believe this is from 4chan.

 

[super88cloud]

Has anybody talked about this thing yet? It was posted on the Ryu Hayabusa thread.
View attachment 303114
It looks pretty convincing, but it could be just Grinch leak Mk.II here. Looking like the latter the more I look at it.

Now that Geno is pretty much disconfirmed, it makes this fake leak pretty obvious

Kubfu, Ryu Hayabusa, Crash Bandicoot, Sol Badguy, Amaterasu, and Yuri, just about. At least, that's what I make out.

That being said, odds are, one of these six characters will be in the game. Like throwing darts in a board.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That being said, odds are, one of these six characters will be in the game. Like throwing darts in a board.

That would imply that Amaterasu would even be on the dartboard.

 

[SharkLord]

On closer inspection, I think it's supposed to be 2B, not Hayabusa. Not that you could tell, through all the blur.

 

[Perkilator]

View attachment 303142
On closer inspection, I think it's supposed to be 2B, not Hayabusa. Not that you could tell, through all the blur.

Nah, man, it’s the Chosen Undead’s Elite Knight helmet on an old-timey telephone

 

[DarthEnderX]

If Arthur from Ghost ‘n’ Goblins were to hypothetically be a DLC character, what could his track list look like?

I mean...there's not a TON of iconic songs besides the obvious level 1 theme.

But SGnGs has a ton of great song's. As does Demon's Crest.

I'm all down for Ganon honestly. Not only another villain

It's not another villain! We already HAVE that villain.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pig Ganon is not playable in Smash. No, we don't "have that villain". We have a different version of the character with a different personality and abilities. Hell, ALTTP Pig Ganon in particular has zero cameos in Smash. He'd be an all new character in multiple ways meta-wise and gameplay-wise. Being the same person does not matter in Smash, since a moveset is a hard part of a character's outright identity. ALTTP Ganon's lack of a single cameo is even more surprising, as he's the most iconic design of all time. The only reason we have OOT Ganon as a Boss, a very separate version, is cause they reused OOT Ganondorf as the playable character. Frankly, adding him is similar to adding Zero Suit Samus, Young Link, Dr. Mario, etc. It's the same person, but a different moveset in the end, and that makes for an interesting game because it introduces new playstyles, strategies, and matchups. That's why Sakurai(nor most directors, honestly), don't care if it's the same person or not. Because that doesn't matter overall when creating a roster unless the story is actually revolved around it. Smash doesn't have alternate movesets like Mortal Kombat does, so you can't just slap Ganon into as playable as a variation on Ganondorf. Transforming into him isn't a viable option to flesh out both characters. Transformation characters have proven to already barely be plausible(PT is still not that great, and they had to fix the character pretty hard).

Spoiler: Other such stuff

Fixing Ganondorf was never really on the table anyway. He's mostly better in terms of competitive ability, but he's actually a physical brute after Melee anyway, as he was already being designed with physical attacks in mind. It's no wonder Nintendo didn't mind him being a Falcon clone. He was already going to start kicking and punching since Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Some of his new physical animations are from TP, after all.

Even his "most iconic move"(which is turning into Pig Ganon, not Dead Man's Volley) is barely notable on him anymore. Phantom Ganon has used it in 3 canon games where Ganondorf(not Ganon, the Gerudo only) used it literally once. Twinrova has used it too, who is probably the one who taught it to him anyway, since she taught him magic(of which he uses anyway regardless). The closest thing to Ganon himself using it is actually Yuga Ganon, who basically is Ganondorf's hard counterpart and absorbed Ganon separately(note that he is not Ganon's counterpart, as he's not a Monster form either. He was never designed that way. There is no actual counterpart to normal Ganon in ALBW) to do so. But again, that's just a Ganondorf alternate universe character using it, which makes sense. It's pretty specific to the human versions as well in that regard. Not saying the move wouldn't make sense on Ganondorf though(though it really doesn't work well for Smash on its own, since it works in a particular way that makes it a poor projectile. It's great for boss fights. It's terrible in fighting games since you're spending a bunch of match knocking it back and forth. He has another similar projectile that just stuns and is also an important move he uses in OOT, the equivalent to the blue energy balls that Agnahim uses... since Ganondorf copied both techniques to make a boss battle more fun, anyway).

Likewise, Ganondorf's old moveset won't be transferred over to another character. He's associated with it in Smash under Sakurai. Under a new director, sure. But characters are not actual functions here. They're characters who are notable because of the way they play, regardless if people like that particular playstyle or not. This is what defines them in Smash in the end. This is why people were not pleased with the concept of functions when tons of important characters were completely cut in Marvel VS Capcom: Infinite. MegaMan's cut in 3 pissed people off for the same reason. The moveset is not the same thing just cause it's there. It's all about who uses it too. This is also likewise the exact reason people want more accurate movesets, because the moveset is just that important to a character.

The best you can get to reuse an old moveset is perhaps an Echo, who has the same proportions but is somewhat different. Ganondorf's Brawl/4 moveset is the same one(though with the weight/speed differences, it'd probably be treated like a regular Clone officially) overall in terms of "it's a Ganondorf moveset", but you could throw that pretty well onto Black Shadow while not messing with Ganondorf's playstyle in general. You'd get both movesets, while not alienating players. It's worth noting that a character introduced that has an eh moveset that some don't like wasn't going to alienate people magically cause it changed again. They were already not interested. In other words, it goes the other way around. Massively changing movesets doesn't actually gather new people overall, it alienates the current players more. Smash is a casual game first, which is what is appealed to. That's why the movesets are only somewhat updated so everyone can easily adjust to. Even then, some might be more alienating than intended(the latest Link and Ganondorf, and Bowser since 4, are a lot more difficult to adjust to than, say, Bowser in Brawl, Ganondorf in Brawl, or Pit in 4. They need a new way to approach). Should they have been changed that much? Debatable, really. I'm not sure how many switched characters outright, as I barely have any actual notes on that. I only know one person who went from Link to Young Link in Ultimate, but that means little overall.

But yeah, an all new game that is effectively a reboot(with or without a new director) is the most likely chance you'll see Ganondorf be changed massively And I say most likely cause that might not even happen, honestly. Don't get me wrong, I get why people dislike how he plays right now. Some care more about accuracy than simply a flowing moveset, etc. Everybody's different.

 

[helloiamhere]

Lmao I like how Grinch leak became so infamous that the second another banner "leak" pops up we're all just collectively like "nah".

 

[SharkLord]

Lmao I like how Grinch leak became so infamous that the second another banner "leak" pops up we're all just collectively like "nah".

That, and the fact that we instantly noticed they were reusing images.

Or at least, some people did. It was too blurry for me to make out anything until it was pointed out to me.

 

[Pillow]

Lmao I like how Grinch leak became so infamous that the second another banner "leak" pops up we're all just collectively like "nah".

People are more skeptical now, but the Grinch leak was actually faked very well. This was a very half-assed attempt at copying it.

But yeah, an all new game that is effectively a reboot(with or without a new director) is the most likely chance you'll see Ganondorf be changed massively And I say most likely cause that might not even happen, honestly.

It probably won't ever happen. Ganon has had this moveset for too long now.

 

[helloiamhere]

I hope we see the real banner of the GL one day. I know it's not gonna happen because someone is gonna get in a lot of trouble when they do upload it it but it would be nice to see.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Lmao I like how Grinch leak became so infamous that the second another banner "leak" pops up we're all just collectively like "nah".

Smash fans seeing this leak:

That, and the fact that we instantly noticed they were reusing images.

Or at least, some people did. It was too blurry for me to make out anything until it was pointed out to me.

Looking at it yeah, the images look pretty similar for Sol and Kubfu. That being said, it is hard to tell due to how blurry it is lol. Either way, leak is dead until somehow the next character has art identical to this in a near exact spot /s.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Pig Ganon is not playable in Smash. No, we don't "have that villain".

Yes, we DO have that villain. Pig Ganon and Ganondorf are THE SAME CHARACTER.

And even if they weren't, he's still a Boss. Which STILL COUNTS!

Nobody is like "They should put Rathalos in the game", because he already is, in the way that fits him best. Just like Ganon!

 

[SpectreJordan]

It wouldn’t be the end of the world if he got in, but I’d be disappointed with Ganon. Zelda is more than just the main three. Someone new should get in before we get another version of one of those three.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It probably won't ever happen. Ganondorf has had this moveset for too long now.

Pretty much. Hence the "characters are not functions" point I made. Changing him that much doesn't actually do anything useful. Just add another character instead, whether it's Pig Ganon(the one more focused on spellcasting anyway throughout his career), or if you want a more sword-focused one, you go with Toon Ganondorf. Ganondorf's current sword only works because it was already partially in his model options(it was actually a part of his overall data in Melee) and that it fits his moveset to a T.

Regular Ganondorf just overall is meant to be both physical and magical. I do agree he doesn't show the magic that well either way, but that's cause his design makes a projectile not flow that well. They can still do more, like increasing his attack speed, removing the terrible Up Tilt, maybe making Warlock Punch have more super armor(it's actually not as hard to hit with as it was before. It's actually remotely usable, though only at fairly low levels. Certainly easier to hit with than Falcon Punch is now). They still could easily change his Up B, since it doesn't fit that well anyway. It's not a terrible move in terms of usefulness, but it could easily be Dark Fists(which is similar yet fits him better), or a Teleport(though that would definitely change up his gameplay a lot, so it might be less of a good option at that point).

 

[SpecterFlower]

I feel like this would be a lot more fun to speculate about if you could, y'know, actually see the dang characters

"Noooo, trust me, that's Crash, I swear!!"

 

[dream1ng]

I'd still rather get a new character than a new version of an existing character.

 

[GoodGrief741]

When will fake leakers figure out that people will be way more likely to believe them if they can actually make out what they're supposed to believe?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

God, I'm remembering just how ****ing stupid this whole Grinch bull**** was. I remember seeing some people insisting it must still be real because Ken's pose was similar until Sakurai said "These are the final challangers" lmao

 

[BlondeLombax]

God, I'm remembering just how ing stupid this whole Grinch bull was. I remember seeing some people insisting it must still be real because Ken's pose was similar until Sakurai said "These are the final challangers" lmao

Was Incineroar ever at least identified slightly during double-checks of that picture? I can only imagine how much worse the discord would have been if that would be the case.

 

[Mamboo07]

God, I'm remembering just how ing stupid this whole Grinch bull was. I remember seeing some people insisting it must still be real because Ken's pose was similar until Sakurai said "These are the final challangers" lmao

Same, it was the dumbest thing.

People got salty after Incineroar and Ken got into Smash due to believing in this stupid leak.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Was Incineroar ever at least identified slightly during double-checks of that picture? I can only imagine how much worse the discord would have been if that would be the case.

Nah, there were people who thought they saw Skull Kid but never Incineroar. It's why we got "Incineroar's leakbait" and "Haha get ****ed, better luck for DLC Incineroar fans, this is totally real and won't bite me in the ass". A guy saying the latter went on a rant about how the game deserves to flop after he was proven wrong and a lot of people suddenly ****ed off entirely after that because they were real embarassed of their behaivour not being vindicated

 

[BlondeLombax]

Nah, there were people who thought they saw Skull Kid but never Incineroar. It's why we got "Incineroar's leakbait" and "Haha get ****ed, better luck for DLC Incineroar fans, this is totally real and won't bite me in the ass". A guy saying the latter went on a rant about how the game deserves to flop after he was proven wrong and a lot of people suddenly ****ed off entirely after that because they were real embarassed of their behaivour not being vindicated

Yeah, I think I know who you’re talking about. That was salt for the history books.

 

[dream1ng]

The winners write the history books but there were a lot of assholes on both sides of the Grinch affair.

 

[Idon]

Personally, I didn't care which side was right because either way no character I wanted was in either way.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Grinch leak brings me back, I wanted to believe. But as a general rule, I suspect all leaks are false.

Still think leaks in general have hurt and changed speculation too much. It's no longer fun this way.