Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[h2ogre]

Yeah, we're definitely getting a new fighter next time around, preferably with a less lopsided roster that doesn't divide the fanbase in half like Phil Swift saws a boat in half. I just don't think they'll give us two Fire Emblem packs for the same DLC, especially seeing as Byleth was only chosen a year in advance and the next FE rep would have to be chosen two years in advance. I just don't see it happening so soon.

Voice Theory was debunked a while ago, alongside any other theory that uses empty slots. It was based on the CSS and not actual files anyways, so it's basically double dead.

Css?

 

[SKX31]

Its hard to say because a lot the trailers excel at different things.

In terms of sheer novelty of presentation, its Terry. The quick history of Nintendo consoles, various SNK character bits, and shout outs to famous moments from their games makes it really distinct.

For sheer emotional impact on me, it has to be Banjo-Kazooie. A long time character that was long overdue for the game not only getting the perfect tease via the Jiggy but with a highlight of gameplay footage that showed them to be exactly the kind of fighter so many of us wanted him to be.

As far as outright production value, while there's a lot of contenders, I'd probably have to give it to Min-Min. The combination of art style and animation gave the whole thing an energy far beyond what you might expect from an ARMS trailer.

Honestly, I'm pretty curious as to if your opinions have shifted between pre-release of a character but also post-release. There have certainly been cases for me - I was completely neutral on Hero at first, but love how absurdly destructive the character is without feeling too nonsensical (most of the time).

you know i think a direct may come soon actually

and this is HUGE: THEY'RE UPDATING THEIR MULTIPLAYER SERVICE. they will DEFINITELY want to announce this.

[Switch Online]

Nintendo is replacing its multiplayer server system, NEX (used in most, if not all of their online games since 3DS/Wii U), with a new system called NPLN.

The Monster Hunter Rise demo was the very first game to use this in public.

More below 👇 https://t.co/7doZFl7sDK

— OatmealDome (@OatmealDome) February 1, 2021

Please for the love of everything that is holy and unholy Nintendo, please learn and put in some actual effort into building a functional online system. The fact that a billion dollar corp with ****ing global reach (and I don't say that lightly), tons of potential in this arena as well as the demand for good online kinda squandered the whole potential for 15+ years is practically a travesty, but something they absolutely should learn from.

Wait....does this mean Smash online play will actually be...like...GOOD?! This really could be huge!

It feels like the best case scenario, but chances are that the online doesn't improve that much.

Still, I'll take any improvements - especially as someone who tries to space the attacks properly all the time and convert off of most hits. (Also any improvements would help off-stage play).

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Even as someone who's relatively indifferent towards FE characters I can't really recall any coming into Smash that weren't associated with a new game outside Chrom, whom was a relatively easy echo fighter and Marth, whom was essentially the protagonist of the very first game.

While it might seem otherwise at times, its not really Nintendo/Sakurai's style to have a FE character in just cause. Even Chrom showing up was essentially due to some demand.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Css?

Character Select Screen

a modder discovered last year that it crashes if you surpass 91 spaces on said screen, but that can probably be patched. i doubt it's tied to the hardware

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think "good" might be overstating it. At most, I'd say it won't suck like it does today.

From Sakurai's statement on the matter, we'll probably have to wait until next the made from scratch game for online to be good, or possibly even better technologies that can handle so many things happening at once.

You know, this whole exercise has kinda proven to me that any character can really be made to work if Sakurai sets his mind to it. Hell, people were touting the Dragon Quest slime unironically as a playable character for some time before Hero showed up. The only real question is - what sort of character would Sakurai jump through so many hoops to make work? Angry Bird certainly ain't it.

...after saying all that I realized such a character already exists in Smash, and his name is Steve.

As far as getting into Super Smash Bros. goes, Angry Birds certainly is at a disadvantage. It's definitely an important piece of gaming history, but it's like Crash Bandicoot in that it didn't last through time, and it's not like Crash Bandicoot in that it isn't in resurgence, or like Ninja Gaiden or Castlevania in that it isn't retro.

That is to say, it has the merit, but everything else is against it.

Css?

Character Select Screen. Not the correct term to use here, but it was based on the UI nonetheless, meaning the whole thing was super dumb to begin with.

 

[ahemtoday]

Even if the voice acting slot thing was real....were people really expecting it to be the Fire Emblem spinoff royals and not, y'know, the Monster Hunter with a female alt?

I really don't think Monster Hunter is in the running. People aren't talking about Bomberman, Shovel Knight, or a Fatal Frame rep, so I don't see why MH is any different.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Even if the voice acting slot thing was real....were people really expecting it to be the Fire Emblem spinoff royals and not, y'know, the Monster Hunter with a female alt?

This is the Smash fandom. We're required to think there will always be an FE shill pick even if the FE game they'd have to shill is older than Fates/3H were at the time their reps were released, or would have to be rushed in order to release on time for its Smash rep.

Character Select Screen. Not the correct term to use here, but it was based on the UI nonetheless, meaning the whole thing was super dumb to begin with.

The Voice Theory was actually based on hoping the sound test menu would be a perfect rectangle by the time FP2 is finished.

 

[SharkLord]

Css?

The select screen, basically. Voice Theory was based on the Sound Test select screen getting a perfect square, and as much as my potential OCD wants that, Smash has proved time and again that it doesn't care about perfect squares.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Stop the presses.
Man of Action is NOT handling the new Sonic cartoon completely, it seems.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I’m no brony, but considering how beloved FiM was, I get a feeling that these guys might be able to whip MoA into shape (or slip some stuff for actual fans through).

Interesting...

So do you guys think Sega will do what they did with Boom and actually acknowledge this show with some game appearances? I remember Sticks was in one of the Mario & Sonic games.

 

[SharkLord]

It just occurred to me that all this time I didn't know what CSS stood for and assumed it was just any select screen

...

I feel dumb

 

[Pillow]

Honestly, I'm pretty curious as to if your opinions have shifted between pre-release of a character but also post-release. There have certainly been cases for me - I was completely neutral on Hero at first, but love how absurdly destructive the character is without feeling too nonsensical (most of the time).

I know it wasn't addressed to me, but I'll answer it anyway. A lot of Smash characters are like this for me. I was so sure I'd hate playing Terry, as I hate playing the Shotos, because I find the fighting game input thing to feel so awkward in Smash, but he ended up being my favorite DLC behind Joker so far. I also had a lot of qualms about the final pick for the base game being Incineroar, a pokemon I really didn't care for at the time (Owl was my SuMo choice) but the way he animates and moves in Smash is just fantastic.

I really don't think Monster Hunter is in the running. People aren't talking about Bomberman, Shovel Knight, or a Fatal Frame rep, so I don't see why MH is any different.

Well...it's different because the rest are actual assist trophies, while the Monster Hunter isn't?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Even if voice theory held water, there's so many potential characters with alts, other characters, or even versions that its hard to narrow it down that much.

Two voices could mean male/female Monster Hunter, Crash & Coco, Phoenix & Edgeworth, or male/female Dovahkiin, Doom Guy/Doom Slayer, etc.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Hehe page 420, nice. Anyway, I'll add something of substance so this isn't a wasted comment.

Dooming seems to be as ever prevalent as overhyping is. After Byleth, everyone got in the gutter that the next fight would probably be a Gen 8 rep because one sucky character among 4 other unique choices indicated all future DLC would be cr*p. 3 fighters in and I say the pass looks good.

Before Sephiroth, people for some reason really latched onto Fortnite, probably because of the statement made by Fortnite dev and we got Sephiroth. Anyone that says we're getting for FE has to be joking or is just very VERY pessimistic.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Even as someone who's relatively indifferent towards FE characters I can't really recall any coming into Smash that weren't associated with a new game outside Chrom, whom was a relatively easy echo fighter and Marth, whom was essentially the protagonist of the very first game.

While it might seem otherwise at times, its not really Nintendo/Sakurai's style to have a FE character in just cause. Even Chrom showing up was essentially due to some demand.

Well, Roy, Corrin, and Byleth are the only ones that were literally just there to advertise.

I really don't think Monster Hunter is in the running. People aren't talking about Bomberman, Shovel Knight, or a Fatal Frame rep, so I don't see why MH is any different.

Two reasons:

1. Rathelos is a base game addition, and this is the second wave of DLC, so Monster Hunter could be reconsidered then.
2. Rathelos isn't the one people are expecting to be added from the series, unlike the three series you mentioned that have Assist Trophies already, so Monster Hunter isn't deemed disconfirmed.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

i do wonder, does the SSS (Stage Select Screen) have an upper limit, or is there no way to tell cause nobody's made modded stages yet?

 

[SharkLord]

Well, Roy, Corrin, and Byleth are the only ones that were literally just there to advertise.

Really? I thought Roy was mainly added because he was a popular veteran request

 

[DarthEnderX]

If this is made by the same people then even if it's not quite as weird it's definitely going to be aimed at children too hard for any of us to like it.

Yeah, pretty much their entire catalogue is shows aimed at 10-year-old boys. And not good ones.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Really? I thought Roy was mainly added because he was a popular veteran request

Did I not change that to were? Either way I should have said originally.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hehe page 420, nice. Anyway, I'll add something of substance so this isn't a wasted comment.

Dooming seems to be as ever prevalent as overhyping is. After Byleth, everyone got in the gutter that the next fight would probably be a Gen 8 rep because one sucky character among 4 other unique choices indicated all future DLC would be cr*p. 3 fighters in and I say the pass looks good.

Before Sephiroth, people for some reason really latched onto Fortnite, probably because of the statement made by Fortnite dev and we got Sephiroth. Anyone that says we're getting for FE has to be joking or is just very VERY pessimistic.

It's a side effect of thinking every single character will be like the last one or so. Arguably it started after the August 8 direct, where people were expecting more K.Rool/Simon tier characters. And then with Joker, it was third parties we weren't talking about. And then when Banjo was announced alongside the appealing-to-Japan Hero, and following them was the appealing-to-Latinos-and-Chinese Terry, people speculated that the next character would be something for Europe. And then after Byleth and Min Min, people expected a pass full of Switch reps or spirits in Min Min's case. And then after Steve, people expected another zoomer gatherbuilder, but after him came Sephiroth so now it's been switched to bigger icons than in FP1 or additional reps for third-parties that had one. Once CP9 inevitably lacks at least one of those qualities, we will act like 10 and 11 HAVE to be exactly like 9.

Really? I thought Roy was mainly added because he was a popular veteran request

Roy in Melee was an ad. Roy as 4 DLC was a fan request.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is funny that with all the third party characters in the series the one fighter whom never appeared on a Nintendo console in any form prior to their Smash inclusion is technically Roy.

 

[Pillow]

It is funny that with all the third party characters in the series the one fighter whom never appeared on a Nintendo console in any form prior to their Smash inclusion is technically Roy.

Corrin came kind of close, but I wonder if we'll ever get another blatant advertisement character like this in the future. A character from a game that hasn't come out yet, but whose game would release shortly after the next Smash release.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

It's a side effect of thinking every single character will be like the last one or so. Arguably it started after the August 8 direct, where people were expecting more K.Rool/Simon tier characters. And then with Joker, it was third parties we weren't talking about. And then when Banjo was announced alongside the appealing-to-Japan Hero, and following them was the appealing-to-Latinos-and-Chinese Terry, people speculated that the next character would be something for Europe. And then after Byleth and Min Min, people expected a pass full of Switch reps or spirits in Min Min's case. And then after Steve, people expected another zoomer gatherbuilder, but after him came Sephiroth so now it's been switched to bigger icons than in FP1 or additional reps for third-parties that had one. Once CP9 inevitably lacks one of those qualities, we will act like 10 and 11 HAVE to be exactly like 9.

That explains another reason why Chun-Li seems to be talked about after being sparked by the Tales of Chun-Leak. She's a 3rd party from a series in Smash that has (albeit not as much) content missing from their respective series. This makes a lot of sense, I never thought about that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, pretty much their entire catalogue is shows aimed at 10-year-old boys. And not good ones.

Hm, they did make some pretty well received shows in the older Ben 10 stuff, and Generator Rex. Perhaps new management or teams caused a shift in quality and how much they tightened their demographic. Makes me kind of worry about Darksiders III though.

Also lol they made The Quiet Man.

 

[7NATOR]

Honestly, I think Travis was a bigger reason why Jonsey was predicted than Steve

Jonsey really only took off because of the "No comment thing"

 

[ahemtoday]

Well...it's different because the rest are actual assist trophies, while the Monster Hunter isn't?

Two reasons:

1. Rathelos is a base game addition, and this is the second wave of DLC, so Monster Hunter could be reconsidered then.
2. Rathelos isn't the one people are expecting to be added from the series, unlike the three series you mentioned that have Assist Trophies already, so Monster Hunter isn't deemed disconfirmed.

Right, but... Rathalos isn't just an assist trophy, but a full-on boss. In my eyes, that's a significant step up in importance, considering how few bosses there are. It's hard to know exactly how important/development-intensive different types of content are, but I'd guess a boss is more comparable to a stage than just an assist trophy. If we got Ancestral Steppe as a stage and Rathalos was a stage boss, would we still be talking about Monster Hunter? I mean, technically, that would be the exact same amount of work, because Rathalos does have a unique boss stage.

Also, I don't really see why it not physically being a Monster Hunter matters that much. MH content is MH content.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly, I think Travis was a bigger reason why Jonsey was predicted than Steve

Jonsey really only took off because of the "No comment thing"

Actually it was Travis who was predicted because of the "No comment" thing, unless there was another instance of it.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Corrin came kind of close, but I wonder if we'll ever get another blatant advertisement character like this in the future. A character from a game that hasn't come out yet, but whose game would release shortly after the next Smash release.

Technically Hero came with content (very technically) from the Switch port that wasn't released yet. Now I obviously don't think this should be considered blatant shilling because there are other merits the Luminary and Erdrick got in with and 11 was also released beforehand, 11 S was just a port. But in-game, the stage and the two DQ11 songs are listed as being from the S port which is obviously not true.

But that's more like Yoshi having a crafted alt or Luigi's polgergust being new in Simon's trailer. I'm honestly gonna say Byleth wasn't even that much of an ad. They probably got some people to try out Three Houses but I think a lot of its buyer base was formed already. They were just a cheaper character with some benefits I assume.

Actually it was Travis who was predicted because of the "No comment" thing, unless there was another instance of it.

Travis' no comment from Suda51 was what sparked people tocpay attention to anyone else who said that.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Travis' no comment from Suda51 was what sparked people tocpay attention to anyone else who said that.

And that’s why I’m banking on jonesy to be either a costume or part of a spirit event, but not playable

 

[Pillow]

Right, but... Rathalos isn't just an assist trophy, but a full-on boss. In my eyes, that's a significant step up in importance, considering how few bosses there are. It's hard to know exactly how important/development-intensive different types of content are, but I'd guess a boss is more comparable to a stage than just an assist trophy. If we got Ancestral Steppe as a stage and Rathalos was a stage boss, would we still be talking about Monster Hunter? I mean, technically, that would be the exact same amount of work, because Rathalos does have a unique boss stage.

Also, I don't really see why it not physically being a Monster Hunter matters that much. MH content is MH content.

I mean, I don't personally think Monster Hunters characters are coming either. But to completely reject the possibility seems silly to me, especially considering how big the franchise is, and how much Capcom is trying to capitalize on its success. You asked how Monster Hunters were different from the other characters you mentioned, and we gave an accurate answer.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I really don't think Monster Hunter is in the running. People aren't talking about Bomberman, Shovel Knight, or a Fatal Frame rep, so I don't see why MH is any different.

The base game roster of Ultimate was decided around 2016. This is before the release of Monster world, which has introduced the Monster hunter franchise to a way bigger audience. There's also the fact that a Monster hunter game is coming for the Switch, but I think that World alone is big enough for Nintendo to reconsider Monster hunter content in Smash. SHovel knight or Fatal frame really got nothing new since 2016 (although Shovel knight got some small expansions like King of cards) so there's no real reason why these would be reconsider.

To put it in perspective, MH world has sold 16.4 million units. Monster hunter franchise has a whole has sold 65 million games. So World represent 1/4 of the whole franchise sales. This is insane for a franchise that have 15 games (not counting spin-off). So I think that World is such a big hit that Monster hunter could be reconsider, especially because now Monster hunter isn't a niche game or game that touch only a Japanese crowd, but it's something more mainstream.

 

[SharkLord]

Did I not change that to were? Either way I should have said originally.

Ah, you mean Melee Roy. My bad, thought you meant Smash 4 Roy

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Of third parties potentially getting characters in association with new games, MH does have the best chance given its recent popularity and huge numbers no doubt that will come from Rise.

The big x factor involved is if the Capcom team/execs want a Hunter character. For Japan, Smash promotion probably isn't as necessary given how much the country adores MH (especially the portable variety). Capcom could believe that a spirit event (or optimal promotional challenge ala the Sephiroth one?) would be enough as far as an ad for the game in Smash.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm kinda worried that Monster Hunter's position is too good to be true. It's got the popularity, connections, and promotional potential, but the Spirit Events have claimed Resident Evil and various other recent Nintendo releases. MH is at the top of the hill now, but it also looks like an easy target for deconfirmation.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's a side effect of thinking every single character will be like the last one or so. Arguably it started after the August 8 direct, where people were expecting more K.Rool/Simon tier characters. And then with Joker, it was third parties we weren't talking about. And then when Banjo was announced alongside the appealing-to-Japan Hero, and following them was the appealing-to-Latinos-and-Chinese Terry, people speculated that the next character would be something for Europe. And then after Byleth and Min Min, people expected a pass full of Switch reps or spirits in Min Min's case. And then after Steve, people expected another zoomer gatherbuilder, but after him came Sephiroth so now it's been switched to bigger icons than in FP1 or additional reps for third-parties that had one. Once CP9 inevitably lacks at least one of those qualities, we will act like 10 and 11 HAVE to be exactly like 9.

Some of these aren't quite as fair.

• Joker is a pretty stark contrast from the picks we were used to, and it was stated to set the tone for the pass, so it make sense that people would look at that angle. Even then it was less finding characters like Joker and more just generally expanding horizons.
• The Europe thing was a reasonable conclusion based on a trend, not just a single character.
• I don't think anyone ever thought there would be zero 3rd party characters in the second pass, just that there might be more of them.
• Sephiroth is also more of an expansion of horizons than a "obviously this means we're getting a bunch more characters from series that already have characters."

Predicting Jonesy off of Steve is absolutely a knee-jerk reaction from people who hated Steve though.

If we got Ancestral Steppe as a stage and Rathalos was a stage boss, would we still be talking about Monster Hunter?

Considering Sephiroth got in even though Final Fantasy VII already has a full on character? Almost certainly.

Right, but... Rathalos isn't just an assist trophy, but a full-on boss. In my eyes, that's a significant step up in importance, considering how few bosses there are. It's hard to know exactly how important/development-intensive different types of content are, but I'd guess a boss is more comparable to a stage than just an assist trophy. If we got Ancestral Steppe as a stage and Rathalos was a stage boss, would we still be talking about Monster Hunter? I mean, technically, that would be the exact same amount of work, because Rathalos does have a unique boss stage.

Also, I don't really see why it not physically being a Monster Hunter matters that much. MH content is MH content.

Responding to the argument as a whole, I don't think many people at this point believes that a series having content in the base game means anything this far out, with the exception of the common belief that characters that are Assist Trophies have to wait until the next game. Since the hunter themselves isn't an Assist Trophy, they aren't relevant to this belief, and thus they are seen as possibility, if not for the fact that this is a separate consideration from the base roster, then from the implications that Min Min and Sephiroth bring.

Other series with Assist Trophies don't really have this distinction, as their main character is the Assist Trophy. Like, nobody would reasonably expect the first Shovel Knight character to be anyone other than Shovel Knight.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Not so sure about MH getting the new pack. Rathalos seems to have that area cornered. Though it is still possible. If March passes and we don’t get MH then, I don’t think they’ll have all that good of a shot. As the big PR opportunity is then.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think one thing we can all agree on is that Monster Hunter will get something come March. Those Mii costumes will be coming back with the next character, the question is whether or not a character will come alongside them, or if a Spirit Event will follow if it doesn't.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ok so I've been playing Ys 7 and hey

I think Adol would be neat.




Also you guys do realize that constantly fearmongering for FE characters is exactly why we got so much? Every time someone on this site whines about FE, Sakurai feels just a little more compelled to add another one. It's scientifucally proven, source, dude, trust me

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Think they’ll randomly drop miis outta nowhere like they did with Lloyd’s in 4?

 

[SharkLord]

Not so sure about MH getting the new pack. Rathalos seems to have that area cornered. Though it is still possible. If March passes and we don’t get MH then, I don’t think they’ll have all that good of a shot. As the big PR opportunity is then.

There's also CP10, when Rise will have likely brought in a lot of fans on the Nintendo side. After that, though, I'm not so sure.

 

[Nekoo]

Guys. Smash online won't change, it's P2P, not server based.