Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Deleted member]

All Sakurai said was that he wanted to bring new worlds into Smash, which doesn’t mean much as any character added would qualify as that in his eyes.

There was something else I was referring to, but unfortunately, I can't remember the exact quote (and thus can't find it to source it here). It was something about wanting new franchise/series representation to be the focus for the DLC, which until Sephiroth, was proving to be true (ARMS, Fire Emblem 3 Houses, Dragon Quest, King of Fighters, Banjo & Kazooie, Minecraft, Persona). And with most recent accounts claiming that Sephiroth was part of a package deal to get Cloud back for this, it could act as a possible explanation as to why the trend was broken. Most would argue that Byleth also broke it, but the wording of the phrase (which I can't remember lol) made it sound like he was saying new games in general; like not dipping back to the same games that already saw fighters added.

Of course, it could just be coincidence, but we're not going to know for sure until we see the last DLC fighters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

There was something else I was referring to, but unfortunately, I can't remember the exact quote (and thus can't find it to source it here). It was something about wanting new franchise/series representation to be the focus for the DLC, which until Sephiroth, was proving to be true (ARMS, Fire Emblem 3 Houses, Dragon Quest, King of Fighters, Banjo & Kazooie, Minecraft, Persona). And with most recent accounts claiming that Sephiroth was part of a package deal to get Cloud back for this, it could act as a possible explanation as to why the trend was broken. Most would argue that Byleth also broke it, but the wording of the phrase (which I can't remember lol) made it sound like he was saying new games in general; like not dipping back to the same games that already saw fighters added.

Of course, it could just be coincidence, but we're not going to know for sure until we see the last DLC fighters.

Maybe it is Reggie’s comments on Joker?

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe it is Reggie’s comments on Joker?

Maybe? Sounds pretty close to what i was thinking.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wouldn't put any stock into Reggie's comment. It could mean anything from only characters from entirely new franchises will be added to only newcomers will be added.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wouldn't put any stock into Reggie's comment. It could mean anything from only characters from entirely new franchises will be added to only newcomers will be added.

I saw it as only newcomers. I mean, EVERYONE IS HERE, right? That’s one selling point of Ultimate. No need for veteran DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't put any stock into Reggie's comment. It could mean anything from only characters from entirely new franchises will be added to only newcomers will be added.

I mean, of course only newcomers will be added; that's why the 'entirely new franchises' angle seemed more likely. We had already known for months at that point that every character was returning, so we could only get new characters confirmed from August to the December release date. Reggie made those comments after Joker was known, which would mean mid December. That's why I had thought it meant entirely new franchises since newcomers were a given.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

In hindsight I think its generally best to take the new worlds as a genuine idea for a lot of the DLC, not a hard promise that every single character would come from a brand new franchise. People were twisting themselves into knots to justify Byleth in that equation but with Sephiroth's arrival it just feels easier to see the statement as a overall sentiment about the Fighter's Pass/es more than anything else.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, of course only newcomers will be added; that's why the 'entirely new franchises' angle seemed more likely. We had already known for months at that point that every character was returning, so we could only get new characters confirmed from August to the December release date. Reggie made those comments after Joker was known, which would mean mid December. That's why I had thought it meant entirely new franchises since newcomers were a given.

Yeah, but the fact that it could just mean newcomers would mean that it's entirely possible that he could just be making the obvious sound cool. Thus, I don't consider it to be a reliable source of information.

Besides, even if he did mean one of the more limiting interpretations, Byleth, Min Min, and Sephiroth prove that there are exceptions to them, so it's not really a hard rule anyway.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I saw it as only newcomers. I mean, EVERYONE IS HERE, right? That’s one selling point of Ultimate. No need for veteran DLC.

Nintendo makes DLC for characters that are already in the game.
Theres no differences, you just pay 6 bucks to have Roy in a separate slot.

 

[JOJONumber691]

In hindsight I think its generally best to take the new worlds as a genuine idea for a lot of the DLC, not a hard promise that every single character would come from a brand new franchise. People were twisting themselves into knots to justify Byleth in that equation but with Sephiroth's arrival it just feels easier to see the statement as a overall sentiment about the Fighter's Pass/es more than anything else.

I mean, to be fair, Sephiroth still fits Smash Ultimate's "New Worlds" Theming
Joker had Persona
Hero had Dragon Quest
Banjo and Kazooie had Banjo-Kazooie (should've also had the rest of Rare as well imo)
Terry had ALL of SNK
Byleth got Fire Emblem Three Houses
Min Min got ARMS
Steve got Minecraft
And Sephiroth got Final Fantasy VII, which Cloud barely got any content from so he still fits the Theming.
Smash Ultimate's DLC Newcomers are Sold on New Characters, New Worlds, and New Mechanics, and all of the DLC (excluding the Potted Plant who Barely missed Base Game), which is the Theming I try to keep in with Speculation, and why I don't expect any Fan Favorite First Parties or Platformer Mascot Third Parties all that much.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nintendo makes DLC for characters that are already in the game.
Theres no differences, you just pay 6 bucks to have Roy in a separate slot.

Oh come on, you're being too cynical.


It'd be the same, but his outfit is from Super Smash Bros. Melee.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Oh come on, you're being too cynical.


It'd be the same, but his outfit is from Super Smash Bros. Melee.

The model isn’t updated either, its just his melee model stretched over his new skeleton.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The model isn’t updated either, its just his melee model stretched over his new skeleton.

Also he is balanced exactly as he was in Melee. Including the nonfunctional dash attack.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And Sephiroth got Final Fantasy VII, which Cloud barely got any content from so he still fits the Theming.

That's still expanding upon it rather than having it be completely new. It doesn't fit the theming.

It'd be like getting a Mega Man V stage and saying it fits the theming because it takes place on a different planet from the existing Wily Castle stage.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I mean, of course only newcomers will be added; that's why the 'entirely new franchises' angle seemed more likely. We had already known for months at that point that every character was returning, so we could only get new characters confirmed from August to the December release date. Reggie made those comments after Joker was known, which would mean mid December. That's why I had thought it meant entirely new franchises since newcomers were a given.

Don’t forget those comments were made at the Game Awards, it wasn’t during a Nintendo exclusive event or anything. As a result the audience was more “mainstream” and may not have been paying attention to Smash before or known about “Everyone is here”. It was just marketing lingo tbh.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Also he is balanced exactly as he was in Melee. Including the nonfunctional dash attack.

Can he still one shot JigglyPuff and Game and Watch with his Up B if he only hits the first hitbox?

 

[SKX31]

Lucario exists

Given his current state I kinda wonder if he does exist.

(No but seriously, Lucario badly needs more love, even after getting some attention in I believe 9.0. He could use a slight weight increase so he doesn't routinely die before getting to use Aura. Or take a page from his Smash 4 self and give him back some of his power - has Ganondorf-level power at high Aura.)

The model isn’t updated either, its just his melee model stretched over his new skeleton.

Also he is balanced exactly as he was in Melee. Including the nonfunctional dash attack.

Hey, if it opens the door for , I'll take it.

(Even if it would mean facing Slippi Foxes on Ultimate's really bad netcode.)

Can he still one shot JigglyPuff and Game and Watch with his Up B if he only hits the first hitbox?

I'd assume yes. If so, I hope it works on Sephiroth too (he's just a little heavier that G&W).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hey, if it opens the door for , I'll take it.

(Even if it would mean facing Slippi Foxes on Ultimate's really bad netcode.)

I don't think we're ready...

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hey, if it opens the door for , I'll take it.

Too bad. After joins the battle he shall be followed by , , and .

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Too bad. After joins the battle he shall be followed by , , and .

Melee Kirby's literally the same as Ultimate Kirby, but he can't copy anyone post-Melee.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Melee Kirby's literally the same as Ultimate Kirby, but he can't copy anyone post-Melee.

And you can mash out of his forward and back throw. Along with him Kirbyciding off ledge if you do it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And you can mash out of his forward and back throw. Along with him Kirbyciding off ledge if you do it.

Ah yes, useless suicide. How could I forget the most important part?

EDIT: Hmm. This might be too dark humor. I hope this doesn't bother anyone.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Speaking of the pink puffball, while size wise it would have to be different from the source game, I hope Smash hacking get us a Robobot Armor Kirby as a playable fighter some day.

 

[Deleted member]

Don’t forget those comments were made at the Game Awards, it wasn’t during a Nintendo exclusive event or anything. As a result the audience was more “mainstream” and may not have been paying attention to Smash before or known about “Everyone is here”. It was just marketing lingo tbh.

Ok, that's a pretty fair argument for the more generic 'newcomers' take on his words. I could see that being the case.

 

[JOJONumber691]

That's still expanding upon it rather than having it be completely new. It doesn't fit the theming.

It'd be like getting a Mega Man V stage and saying it fits the theming because it takes place on a different planet from the existing Wily Castle stage.

And ARMS got Five Base Game Spirits yet you're not including that in the equation. I think that you have to take in mind the Quantities for what qualifies as "New World". A New Game in a Series (Fire Emblem Three Houses), or they got barely anything at all (Final Fantasy VII and ARMS). Mega Man getting more Classic Content, or Sonic getting a Second Character wouldn't qualify as a New World. While Mega Man X or Sonic Boom would still qualify as a "New World". It's that simple lol.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think the “new worlds” wording is outdated at this point, to be honest.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Maybe “new worlds” in the traditional sense applied only to pass 1?

I mean. 3H is technically a new world within the Fire Emblem universe

 

[Speed Weed]

or they got barely anything at all (Final Fantasy VII and ARMS).

ARMS, in my opinion, counts as a new world because it hadn't had a single character or stage before.

FF7 had.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

In the "Sakurai presents Banjo" video around 24 minutes Sakurai say "adding more characters into the game means that more game worlds will be added to the series". He also say that Smash ultimate is a unique opportunity because there's already so many different worlds and he want to "keep improving on the record". So while he don't say that new characters will only come to new franchises, it seems that one of his goals was to put more new universe than he can.

 

[RileyXY1]

ARMS, in my opinion, counts as a new world because it hadn't had a single character or stage before.

FF7 had.

Even then, FF7 felt like a new world because it had so little content before Sephiroth's Challenger Pack.

 

[JOJONumber691]

ARMS, in my opinion, counts as a new world because it hadn't had a single character or stage before.

FF7 had.

And FFVII only got One Character from the Previous Game, who they barely got back, Two Music Tracks, One Stage, and 5 Summons who didn't have any Collectibles, so I would count FFVII as a "New World". It still counts if you barely got anything in the First Place.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Daily reminder that we need a Tetris stage as DLC. Seriously, how the heck has it not happened yet?

Also the new worlds thing is kind of hit or miss, seeing as we did get Byleth after all. I would say that in theory it might matter but honestly taking Sakurai's word exactly is not great since he leaves himself enough wiggle room sometimes.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Every Challenger Pack INTENDED for DLC has been from a New World in a way, whether it be a New Third Party, a Series with Barely Anything in Base Game, or a Pre-Existing Series got a New Game. There's Wiggle Room as shown by Three Houses, ARMS, and Final Fantasy VII, but not much considering Nintendo's Involvement in DLC.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And ARMS got Five Base Game Spirits yet you're not including that in the equation. I think that you have to take in mind the Quantities for what qualifies as "New World". A New Game in a Series (Fire Emblem Three Houses), or they got barely anything at all (Final Fantasy VII and ARMS). Mega Man getting more Classic Content, or Sonic getting a Second Character wouldn't qualify as a New World. While Mega Man X or Sonic Boom would still qualify as a "New World". It's that simple lol.

Final Fantasy had a character and a stage already, ARMS and Fire Emblem: Three Houses did not. It's that simple. lol

It doesn't matter that it didn't have much more beyond that, it's still more than what ARMS and Fire Emblem: Three Houses had.

 

[SharkLord]

Sakurai just said that "Whenever a new character is added to Smash, the scope expands." He's right, because that's new content being added. It doesn't necessarily imply that it has to be a "new world," though most DLC generally follow that pattern because there's more stuff to add that way.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Also I just realise something in the Byleth presentation. Maybe this is just a coincidence, but he said near the end, when talking about pass 2 that "I thought one or two (additional characters) might suffice, but.." (and then the screen shows that 6 characters are coming). I do wonder if the fact that Sakurai was only planning to bring one or two characters is a reference to Steve and Sephiroth, because from leaks it seems that these characters where planned very early on (maybe even base game for Steve and early DLC for Sephiroth). This makes me think that maybe those two where decided very early on because they where already planned as bonus after the pass, and the others 4 (Min min and the last 3) where decided later when they thought that doing another pass would be better.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Has there been any rumors of a Nintendo direct or has the internet just sort of given up on them since Mario 3D World +Bowser is Angerey got revealed without one?

 

[JOJONumber691]

Final Fantasy had a character and a stage already, ARMS and Fire Emblem: Three Houses did not. It's that simple. lol

It doesn't matter that it didn't have much more beyond that, it's still more than what ARMS and Fire Emblem: Three Houses had.

Again, you barely get anything you still count, because by your logic, all three ARMS, Fire Emblem Three Houses and Final Fantasy VII are all Returning Worlds. It's simple marketing to focus on World snot in or with Barely anything in the Base Game, meaning that, Marketing Wise, Final Fantasy VII is a New World.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly the whole new worlds justification is just a series of moving goalposts:
"Oh, it means that they have to be from entirely new franchises."
BYLETH JOINS SMASH HOUSE!

"Oh, it means that they have to be from a setting that doesn't have any content already."
MIN MIN TAKES ARMS!

"Oh, it means that they have to be from a setting that doesn't already have a character or stage."
SEPHIROTH STORMS INTO BATTLE!

This is where the rule dies imo. Could these characters be exceptions to the rule? Sure, but that proves the existence of exceptions, and thus, makes it impossible to disqualify anything based off the rule.

 

[SharkLord]

Also I just realise something in the Byleth presentation. Maybe this is just a coincidence, but he said near the end, when talking about pass 2 that "I thought one or two (additional characters) might suffice, but.." (and then the screen shows that 6 characters are coming). I do wonder if the fact that Sakurai was only planning to bring one or two characters is a reference to Steve and Sephiroth, because from leaks it seems that these characters where planned very early on (maybe even base game for Steve and early DLC for Sephiroth). This makes me think that maybe those two where decided very early on because they where already planned as bonus after the pass, and the others 4 (Min min and the last 3) where decided later when they thought that doing another pass would be better.

I think it's worth noting that while there's been a decent amount of rumors going around for Sephiroth, Steve is the only one we have hard confirmation on regarding his negotiations going back for a long time. We could still have another "Old negotiations" character, though it could also turn out that Seph really is the other character planned early on too.