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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Þe 1 → Way

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
796
I mean...it's true, but at the same time, not really. Tatsunoko vs Capcom and Marvel vs Capcom 3, definitely. No doubt about it. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite...not really.
Infinite had a lot of “special” stuff surrounding its development, better to take it as the exception rather than the rule.
 

Evil Trapezium

Smash Champion
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
2,628
NNID
GuyManRunnin
Switch FC
SW-2246-2414-0334
Another little game:
My picks are:
  1. Eggman
  2. Cinderace
  3. King Boo
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Either Sora or Crash
1. Tails​
2. Decidueye​
3. Fire Mario​
4. Sonic from the Puyo Puyo series​
5. Bandana Dee​
6. Sgt. Cortez​

Time to Split.

:ultcortez:
Cortez smash icon.png
 

Minicar247

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 12, 2020
Messages
114
Another little game:
My picks are:
  1. Eggman
  2. Cinderace
  3. King Boo
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Either Sora or Crash
1. Blaze
2. Garchomp
3. Fawful
4. Arle
5. Marx
6. Estelle
 

BritishGuy54

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
61
Another little game:
My picks are:
  1. Eggman
  2. Cinderace
  3. King Boo
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Either Sora or Crash
My picks:
1. Eggman
2. Grovyle
3. Paper Mario
4. Arle
5. Bandana Dee
6. Rex & Pyra
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
9,559
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Another little game:
Personal likes:
  • Tails
  • Toxtricity, Mimikyu, Corviknight, Eevee. Honestly I'd be happy with quite a lot of Pokémon.
  • Captain Toad
  • Arle
  • Bandana Waddle Dee
  • Amaterasu
Objective picks:
  • Still Tails
  • Toxtricity or Eevee
  • Waluigi or Geno
  • Arle
  • Bandana Waddle Dee
  • [INSERT BIG NAME HERE]
 
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
824
You know, everyone talks about how busted Dante would be if they added him in, but no one talks about Sora could end up simiarly depending on the games they draw inspiration from.
Even if Dante and Sora were broken, Zero would be the best character in the game.:4pacman:

Seriously, though, the balancing team has shown they know what they are doing this time around. We shouldn't have a Smash 4 Bayonetta situation regardless of who gets picked.
 

One-Winged Bagel

Suppernova
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
31,861
Location
A Cold and Dark Place
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I forgot how it was named in Japan, but Olimar and Pikmin is another longer name. If it was translated more accurately for us, like Rosalina and Luma was.
 

SharkLord

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
4,985
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
So if Chun-li or Lloyd or Yuri get revealed next, will the speculation period end up like the Kencineroar box era? Only it being called the Chun-Busa or Tales of Gaiden period if Verge's comments pan out?
I still find it funny that it's become Tales of Chun-Li when both subjects got literally just a single sentence devoted to them.

"Chun-Li was planned but was replaced by Ken somehow. Symphonia and Vesperia guys were also planned, but also disappeared. That's it, that's the leak."

Might be projecting my own thoughts, but I feel like Chun-Li might be met with a bit more resistance if a Tales rep is added than Lloyd or Yuri in the opposite scenario. Chun-Li was stated to have been replaced by Ken somehow, while the Tales reps just didn't show up for whatever reason. If people start buying into the rumor after one of them is added, some might group Chun-Li with Decidueye and Alucard as characters who were considered but ultimately had their spots taken by another character.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
9,559
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
I mean...it's true, but at the same time, not really. Tatsunoko vs Capcom and Marvel vs Capcom 3, definitely. No doubt about it. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite...not really.
To be fair, Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite didn't really do much beyond the basics (and not even that if one views "the basics" as series staples, it's just that the dev team did not).
 

Powerman293

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
877
Even if Dante and Sora were broken, Zero would be the best character in the game.:4pacman:

Seriously, though, the balancing team has shown they know what they are doing this time around. We shouldn't have a Smash 4 Bayonetta situation regardless of who gets picked.
If I hear the words "Royal Guard" come out of Sakurai's mouth if Dante gets in I am going to ask for a nerf before he gets released even.
 
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Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
16,391
Location
Hel
NNID
Lethal Swordsman
Switch FC
Cohort of the Dead
You know, everyone talks about how busted Dante would be if they added him in, but no one talks about Sora could end up simiarly depending on the games they draw inspiration from.
Really any game where you're going on a powertrip and slaughtering enemies by the hundreds has this potential issue. Dante just gets the worst of it since his little sister franchise added a precedent for it having happened once.
 

N3ON

The Less I Know the Better
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
19,991
Location
Vancouver
Amongst the pointlessness of discussions which we cycle through, trying to predict how busted a character will be seems especially futile. That's something that comes down to the developers, not even the source material.

And, sort of in that vein, people who suggest a character won't get in because of their canonical power... haven't been paying attention.
 

Powerman293

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
877
Even if it's just the Parry animation with no bells and whistles?
I doubt his parry will be referenced unless it has some special property. It'll be something people will see if he gets released but not in the presentation.
 
Last edited:

Otoad64

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
1,022
Location
Who Knows Where?
Amongst the pointlessness of discussions which we cycle through, trying to predict how busted a character will be seems especially futile. That's something that comes down to the developers, not even the source material.

And, sort of in that vein, people who suggest a character won't get in because of their canonical power... haven't been paying attention.
I don't think they're trying to predict how busted they'll be
 

N3ON

The Less I Know the Better
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
19,991
Location
Vancouver
I don't think they're trying to predict how busted they'll be
It's not like they're trying to predict any given character, more like some characters are anticipated as potentially being busted.

But those are generally just unfounded concerns. I mean in this case I guess people are looking at Bayo. But Bayo as a character is not inherently busted, because look at her this time. Like I said, it all comes down to the developers.
 

Otoad64

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 22, 2020
Messages
1,022
Location
Who Knows Where?
That makes me ponder: what's your stance on Digimon?
a virtual pet is still a game in my opinion, it's kind of like mobile games where it is different from a regular game but still falls under the same umbrella

but I couldn't really tell you wether they're more known as an anime though
 
Last edited:

The Stoopid Unikorn

Spiciest of Guacamoles
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
76,483
Location
myths and legends
Switch FC
SW-4202-4979-0504
I still find it funny that it's become Tales of Chun-Li when both subjects got literally just a single sentence devoted to them.

"Chun-Li was planned but was replaced by Ken somehow. Symphonia and Vesperia guys were also planned, but also disappeared. That's it, that's the leak."

Might be projecting my own thoughts, but I feel like Chun-Li might be met with a bit more resistance if a Tales rep is added than Lloyd or Yuri in the opposite scenario. Chun-Li was stated to have been replaced by Ken somehow, while the Tales reps just didn't show up for whatever reason. If people start buying into the rumor after one of them is added, some might group Chun-Li with Decidueye and Alucard as characters who were considered but ultimately had their spots taken by another character.
The fact that Tales of Chun-Li is speculation based on "insider knowledge that didn't make it in base game" already spells out that what's written on it shouldn't be taken as gospel.

Ken has the legacy of being the original "Echo" for the fighting game genre, so wouldn't adding him when Echo Fighters are a part of the marketing make a lot of sense since he has that legacy tied to him? Why would he be a replacement when he has that going for him?

If Chun-Li was considered then scrapped, I don't think Ken was simply added to compensate. I think, if it's true, both characters were planned but only one made it in for... whatever reasons the devs would have to scrap Chun-Li, which is most likely time constraints.

I mean...it's true, but at the same time, not really. Tatsunoko vs Capcom and Marvel vs Capcom 3, definitely. No doubt about it. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite...not really.
Take a look at Jedah in that game and tell me they weren't really passionate when making the guy.

I realize it's probably the one exception, but goddammit, he's such a shining diamond in the rough that I gotta mention him.
 
Last edited:

Golden Icarus

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
730
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Another little game:
My picks are:
  1. Eggman
  2. Cinderace
  3. King Boo
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Either Sora or Crash
1. Meowth
2. Toad
3. Bandana Dee
4. Arle
5. Isaac
6. & Knuckles

Choosing a character from the Sonic series is still really difficult for me. I’d love to see more Sonic characters but I can never decide between Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, or Shadow. It’s like choosing between Vegeta, Frieza, and Piccolo.

Tails and Eggman probably have the most merit, but Knuckles feels like he belongs in Smash.
 

SharkLord

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
4,985
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
The fact that Tales of Chun-Li is speculation based on "insider knowledge that didn't make it in base game" already spells out that what's written on it shouldn't be taken as gospel.

Ken has the legacy of being the original "Echo" for the fighting game genre, so wouldn't adding him when Echo Fighters are a part of the marketing make a lot of sense since he has that legacy tied to him? Why would he be a replacement when he has that going for him?

If Chun-Li was considered then scrapped, I don't think Ken was simply added to compensate. I think, if it's true, both characters were planned but only one made it in for... whatever reasons the devs would have to scrap Chun-Li, which is most likely time constraints.
One thought I had is that they swapped Chun-Li for Ken early on after they realized they wouldn't have enough time, and then decided "Hey, what if we made more?" a short while after that. The Echoes are quite low-effort, with Chrom in particular feeling rather awkward (Still in Robin's Final Smash, not having the Awakening victory theme until an update, etc.). Admittedly, it's kind of a stretch; Mostly just a bit of speculation on my part.

Though, it does raise the question of when in development Echoes were created. Were they going to be a part of Ultimate from the beginning to help the reception of Dark Pit and Lucina, or were they added later to squeeze in a couple extra fan-favorites? Not sure we ever got a statement on that, though I could just be forgetting it.
 

CureParfait

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Messages
527
Another little game:
My picks are:
  1. Eggman
  2. Cinderace
  3. King Boo
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Either Sora or Crash
Shadow
Darkrai
Waluigi
Arle
Marx
Shadower
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

Spiciest of Guacamoles
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
76,483
Location
myths and legends
Switch FC
SW-4202-4979-0504
One thought I had is that they swapped Chun-Li for Ken early on after they realized they wouldn't have enough time, and then decided "Hey, what if we made more?" a short while after that. The Echoes are quite low-effort, with Chrom in particular feeling rather awkward (Still in Robin's Final Smash, not having the Awakening victory theme until an update, etc.). Admittedly, it's kind of a stretch; Mostly just a bit of speculation on my part.

Though, it does raise the question of when in development Echoes were created. Were they going to be a part of Ultimate from the beginning to help the reception of Dark Pit and Lucina, or were they added later to squeeze in a couple extra fan-favorites? Not sure we ever got a statement on that, though I could just be forgetting it.
Wouldn't be surprised if they were decided alongside the rest of the newcomers this time around, considering the Ballot had a lot of weight in deciding some of the newcomers.
 

Some AT-AT

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
44
Another little game:
My picks are:
  1. Eggman
  2. Cinderace
  3. King Boo
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Either Sora or Crash
1. Eggman

2. Decidueye

3. Not sure on this one

4. Arle

5. Bdee

6. Crash
 

OffBrandANON

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
43
Another little game:
My picks are:
  1. Eggman
  2. Cinderace
  3. King Boo
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Either Sora or Crash
eggman
garbodour
waluigi or king boo
arle
bandana dee
shantae
 

toonito

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
441
Another little game:
My picks are:
  1. Eggman
  2. Cinderace
  3. King Boo
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Either Sora or Crash
Tails, Dragapult, Toad, Arle, Bandana Dee, Sol Badguy
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
4,572
Another little game:
1. Shadow(Sonic echo)
2. Garchomp
3. Captain Toad/Toadette
4. Uh, Arle I guess? This one is stupid cause there's really only one reasonable choice
5. Bandana Waddle Dee
6. Ryu Hayabusa

If I hear the words "Royal Guard" come out of Sakurai's mouth if Dante gets in I am going to ask for a nerf before he gets released even.
He just says it when you do a Perfect Shield, and that's it's only function.
 
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ahemtoday

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
324
Another little game:
My picks are:
  1. Eggman
  2. Cinderace
  3. King Boo
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Either Sora or Crash
  1. Eggman
  2. Hydreigon
  3. Paper Mario
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Maxwell
 

SharkLord

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
4,985
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
Wouldn't be surprised if they were decided alongside the rest of the newcomers this time around, considering the Ballot had a lot of weight in deciding some of the newcomers.
That's fair, though I could also see Echoes coming later; They only have enough room for a couple of fan-favorites, but then realize "Hey, wait, we can squeeze in even more!"

Granted, we don't know exactly how far back the negotiation rumor goes beyond the fact that the Tales fighters were supposedly in the planning stages. It could be that Chun-Li was planned at first, then swapped with Ken, and the devs realized "Hey, let's do more!," leading to the Echo Fighter push. Of course, it's also entirely possible that the rumor is fake and we spent a lot of time debating something that ultimately led nowhere:drshrug:
 

Munchi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
277
Another little game:
My picks are:
  1. Eggman
  2. Cinderace
  3. King Boo
  4. Arle
  5. Bandana Dee
  6. Either Sora or Crash
1. Eggman
2. Grovyle
3. King Boo
4. Arle
5. Adeleine
6. Angelo
 

SpectreJordan

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
1,326
Location
Jacksonville, Fl
NNID
SpectreJordan
Dead Rising could also benefit from this if Frank ever got in.
God, Frank would be so awesome. He’s definitely in my “Most Wanted Never Evers” list. His moveset could be super wacky. Just the visual of a normal dude fighting all the crazy cartoon, anime & sci-fi characters would be worth his inclusion alone.

As for the gaming origins conversation, I don’t think Geralt could get in. I would understand if he did & I think he’d be awesome, but he didn’t originate in a game. Plan & simple.

I personally think characters from non-gaming series that debuted in a game (Darth Revan, Android 21, etc...) could qualify though. But that will absolutely never happen just because picking those characters over more prominent characters in their series would be silly & controversial.

I don’t think it really matters anyway. We’re still just beginning to delve into the video game well. There’s still tons of amazing video game characters/series left to be added.
 
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