Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly, archetypes in Super Smash Bros. are pretty poorly named or defined. The grappler archetype is often referred to as the heavy or super heavyweight archetype even though there are grapplers that don't fit this mold (The Ice Climbers's win condition is typically grabs that are hard to land, but don't have the big damage and ludicrously slow speed on all of their attacks like heavies do), not all heavies are super heavy (like Ridley), and not all heavies are even grapplers (King Dedede's kid is geared towards zoning and setups, it just doesn't work how it should).

Similarly, brawlers tend to be on the aggressive side, but they aren't always rush down characters. Swordfighters don't always exclusively wield the sword nor are all characters with swords swordfighters. Also, swordfighters don't seem to be thought of as zoners even though they are, but they can't play keepaway like the other zoner archetypes.

EDIT: Forgot the archetype who's confusion just prompted this response. lol. The gunner archetype is also kind of poorly named because not all characters that primarily use guns fit into it, and there probably are or will be characters that don't use guns that do fit into it.

Nightmare stances do give him Completely different moves, and he has multiple of these stances.

Are these a handful of moves or completely different movesets?

 

[JOJONumber691]

That's a very strange reason not to expect more western characters. The reason Steve's music was a licensing challenge isn't going to apply to most of the plausible western candidates, where the soundtrack, unless it uses licensed material, is owned in-house.

Also Cadence would obviously also come with Crypt of the Necrodancer music. That's her actual game.

Also, Cadence of Hyrule has multiple 3rd party composers, so they may not actually own the specific renditions in the Cadence of Hyrule OST.

In which case, she might only come with Crypt of the Necrodancer music because from what I know, Crypt of the Necrodancer and Cadence of Hyrule have different composers.
EDIT: After looking it up, this seems to not be the case. Not sure where I heard that then.
EDIT EDIT: The composer for Cadence of Hyrule is still probably not in-house, so the first statement still applies.

Nah. I’m talking about Steve taking Five Years, not the Music. The fact that it took that long for one Western Character, and the only reason one got in before is because they were owned by the same parent company and had tons of fan support on top of said company already being on board. So yeah, I can say with confidence that most major Western Third Parties are off the table. I could see Doomguy or Rayman because of their Companies’ Mii’s but that’s about it. Even then I can’t see either happening at all due to said Mii’s, so it’s a double-edge sword. That and Nintendo still owns the Compositions and would probably have an easy enough time getting the other rights, on top of there probably being Nintendo Translators who’ve befriended the Developers through Cadence of Hyrule, which mediates the Language Barrier. Yeah, I think Cadence has a really good chance, especially for an Indie Character like WOW!

 

[7NATOR]

Honestly, archetypes in Super Smash Bros. are pretty poorly named or defined. The grappler archetype is often referred to as the heavy or super heavyweight archetype even though there are grapplers that don't fit this mold (The Ice Climbers's win condition is typically grabs that are hard to land, but don't have the big damage and ludicrously slow speed on all of their attacks like heavies do), not all heavies are super heavy (like Ridley), and not all heavies are even grapplers (King Dedede's kid is geared towards zoning and setups, it just doesn't work how it should).

Similarly, brawlers tend to be on the aggressive side, but they aren't always rush down characters. Swordfighters don't always exclusively wield the sword nor are all characters swordfighters. Also, swordfighters don't seem to be thought of as zoners even though they are, but they can't play keepaway like the other zoner archetypes.


Are these a handful of moves or completely different movesets?

Perhaps the best way to define characters is to perhaps take Aspects from various archetypes to describe a character

For example, Meta Knight would be considered a Rushdown Swordfighter, and King Dedede would be a Super Heavyweight Zoner.

Though even that might not be specfic enough, but I think trying to box characters into just one archtype is not enough to be honest
------------------

For your question about Nightmare, He gets a handful amount of moves he can use in that stance, but keep in mind that he has multiple of these stances, and these are able to switch into each other. It doesn't however completely change his moveset

 

[Ivander]

Very true.

Since the original inspiration for this topic was Nightmare. So the question is, in SC, do Nightmare's stance changes completely change his moves, or do they just change the properties of his moves?

Are these a handful of moves or completely different movesets?

The idea with Nightmare's stance moves is that it gives him a list of new moves, but only a handful. Because in most cases, using one move from his stances will automatically put him back into his regular stance, while other cases put him into another stance. But for the most part, Nightmare's playstyle with his stances have him in regular stance and when he uses the moves that put him into his stances, he often quickly uses one of his new moves to go back into regular stance.

Basically, the moves from Nightmare's stances are often to follow up on his hits. Like for example, one of his common attacks is down-forward that puts him into his stance. If you succeed at hitting the foe successfully, you can quickly follow up with A, B or aGa for a combo. By chance the opponent guards it and they try to take advantage of your lag, you press K to deliver an incredibly quick kick that can stun them if you successfully hit them when they are in one of their attack frames, allowing you to follow-up with another one of your attacks.

Nightmare is pretty much a pressure attacker. His attacks are powerful on your shields and they and his stances are meant to pressure you into making the wrong decision and in the chance you do, you are often greeted with alot of damage in return. And for the player playing Nightmare, they have to decide whether to use one of their new moves after they use one of their other ones or guard to go back into regular stance. They focus on trying to correctly predict what their opponent is going to do in response to their previous move. If they predict the foe correctly, they are rewarded with alot of damage to the opponent.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Honestly, archetypes in Super Smash Bros. are pretty poorly named or defined. The grappler archetype is often referred to as the heavy or super heavyweight archetype even though there are grapplers that don't fit this mold (The Ice Climbers's win condition is typically grabs that are hard to land, but don't have the big damage and ludicrously slow speed on all of their attacks like heavies do), not all heavies are super heavy (like Ridley), and not all heavies are even grapplers (King Dedede's kid is geared towards zoning and setups, it just doesn't work how it should).

Similarly, brawlers tend to be on the aggressive side, but they aren't always rush down characters. Swordfighters don't always exclusively wield the sword nor are all characters swordfighters. Also, swordfighters don't seem to be thought of as zoners even though they are, but they can't play keepaway like the other zoner archetypes.

I totally agree , though I would make an amendment and say that not all swordfighters are zoners. Most are, but some just don't really fit the mold (Meta Knight, Ike to an extent, Roy to an extent). I'll also add that not all projectile characters are zoners, as being a zoner is more about wanting to keep a certain distance rather than just not wanting to approach. After thinking about it for a long time, I've reached the conclusion that Young Link isn't a zoner at all, but rather a setplay character. He'll sling projectiles at you all day long, but he's not really trying to control space that much. He's just trying to get a hit in to start doing his thing. He just happens to usually get started with projectiles.

 

[SharkLord]

Nah. I’m talking about Steve taking Five Years, not the Music. The fact that it took that long for one Western Character, and the only reason one got in before is because they were owned by the same parent company and had tons of fan support on top of said company already being on board. So yeah, I can say with confidence that most major Western Third Parties are off the table. I could see Doomguy or Rayman because of their Companies’ Mii’s but that’s about it. Even then I can’t see either happening at all due to said Mii’s, so it’s a double-edge sword. That and Nintendo still owns the Compositions and would probably have an easy enough time getting the other rights, on top of there probably being Nintendo Translators who’ve befriended the Developers through Cadence of Hyrule, which mediates the Language Barrier. Yeah, I think Cadence has a really good chance, especially for an Indie Character like WOW!

That seems to be at least partially because Sakurai was put off by Steve's complexity, until he finally caved in and went "FINE, I'm redoing every stage in the game." For someone like, for example, Crash or Shovel Knight, they would be a lot less complicated and therefore a lot less likely for Sakurai to keep putting off.

 

[7NATOR]

Technically, Snake and Sonic took around 5 years to implemented as well

There was discussion all the way in Melee about these Two to be playable. Sonic even more so since Sega at first refused, and then when Sonic was added the game had to be delayed

 

[Icedragonadam]

You know at the very least, CP9 is guaranteed to come out before the end of March because Nintendo's fiscal year of 2020 ends at the end of March. Which also is the reason for why the deadline(which having one is stupid as well) date of Mario 35 and All-Stars collection is March 31st.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Assuming we are in a week to week cycle of news I could imagine it eventually finishing off in early March via the Smash reveal, followed by the Sakurai presents/release the following week.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nah. I’m talking about Steve taking Five Years, not the Music. The fact that it took that long for one Western Character, and the only reason one got in before is because they were owned by the same parent company and had tons of fan support on top of said company already being on board. So yeah, I can say with confidence that most major Western Third Parties are off the table. I could see Doomguy or Rayman because of their Companies’ Mii’s but that’s about it. Even then I can’t see either happening at all due to said Mii’s, so it’s a double-edge sword. That and Nintendo still owns the Compositions and would probably have an easy enough time getting the other rights, on top of there probably being Nintendo Translators who’ve befriended the Developers through Cadence of Hyrule, which mediates the Language Barrier. Yeah, I think Cadence has a really good chance, especially for an Indie Character like WOW!

My post was more of an adendum to the part about Cadence of Hyrule's OST ownership, but in regards to this, I'd be willing to bet that Steve took 5 years because he's Steve since, while Microsoft is the only western 3rd party with a character, Super Smash Bros. does have quite a bit of western 3rd party content now, featuring content from Ubisoft, Bethesda, Toby Fox, Wayforward, Digital Extremes, etc. It may not be quite the same negotiation workload as a fighter, but I feel like if the barrier for western inclusion was that bad we wouldn't have most of the stuff we do in that regard.

I totally agree , though I would make an amendment and say that not all swordfighters are zoners. Most are, but some just don't really fit the mold (Meta Knight, Ike to an extent, Roy to an extent).

I made this distinction the other way around, claiming that not all characters with swords are swordfighters. Though initially what I typed was that "not all characters are swordfighters" which, while true, isn't really helpful. lol

 

[Otoad64]

Assuming we are in a week to week cycle of news I could imagine it eventually finishing off in early March via the Smash reveal, followed by the Sakurai presents/release the following week.

nah march doesn't finish with a smash reveal, it finishes with mario's public execution

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I made this distinction the other way around, claiming that not all characters with swords are swordfighters. Though initially what I typed was that "not all characters are swordfighters" which, while true, isn't really helpful. lol

Okay, gotcha. In my head I was picturing characters like Steve, Byleth, and Link when you said that, so I went back to all the characters that only use swords as "swordfighters."

 

[Firox]

That seems to be at least partially because Sakurai was put off by Steve's complexity, until he finally caved in and went "FINE, I'm redoing every stage in the game." For someone like, for example, Crash or Shovel Knight, they would be a lot less complicated and therefore a lot less likely for Sakurai to keep putting off.

It's funny. The way Sakurai described things, I imagine his conversation with the corporate execs going something like this:

Execs: "Hey, we think Steve would be pretty hype. How about we put him in Smash?"

Sakurai: "I dunno, guys. I'd have to retool all 100+ stages and invent several completely new mechanics just to do him justice. Then there's the entire building and materials mechanic—"

Execs: "You know what? It's Ok. We just figured that you were Masahiro Sakurai, one of the most creative and talented developers of our time, but if you really can't handle it, no biggie. I guess we were just asking too much of you..."

Sakurai: (rubs his temples with a sigh) "FINE. I'll have the designs drawn up by next week." (leans over to the intercom on his desk as the execs leave) "Sayako, do me a favor and have the interns slash the tires of all the Audi's in the parking lot out front."

 

[cothero]

Technically, Snake and Sonic took around 5 years to implemented as well

There was discussion all the way in Melee about these Two to be playable. Sonic even more so since Sega at first refused, and then when Sonic was added the game had to be delayed

Speaking of Sonic, remember the hype when this trailer was uploaded to the Smash Dojo back in 2007?

Oh boy, the good old days... 14 years already.

 

[Firox]

Speaking of Sonic, remember the hype when this trailer was uploaded to the Smash Dojo back in 2007?

Oh boy, the good old days... 14 years already.

Honestly, this was the first insanely hype reveal I can remember. All due respect to Snake, I didn't have the same nostalgic connection that I did with Sonic. And the music...since Sonic Adventure 2 was one of my favorite Sonic games ever, hearing Live and Learn gave me goosebumps. Then the Super Sonic stinger at the end? Such a magnificent trailer for its time.

....then, after weeks of trying to get good with Sonic, I was unfortunately bummed out to discover that his playstyle was so spammy and repetitive. I guess it's true that "wanting" is more pleasing a thing than "having" more often than not. Aw well. Still great to have him and great that others can enjoy playing with him.

 

[Deleted member]

The Hayabusa & Team Ninja discussions came around while I was at work, so I guess I can fit a couple of cents on that interview article.

-Given this is the Director of Nioh being interviewed, the topics are mainly focused on Team Ninja and their games rather than all of Koei-Tecmo.
-It makes sense Team Ninja are not working on another Nioh and Ninja Gaiden game considering Koei-Tecmo announced they're making a new IP with the goal to sell 5 million copies. It's looking very apparent Team Ninja are the developers for this new IP.
-It also makes sense for Ninja Gaiden to be Team Ninja's biggest influence for their games, though given this is the Director of Nioh saying this instead of an actual KT exec, I'm not really going to say Hayabusa is Koei-Tecmo's defacto mascot. He's definitely 1 of the biggest faces of Koei-Tecmo thoe.
-That bit about potential upcoming news in regards to Ninja Gaiden definitely alludes to the Sigma Trilogy being revealed. At first, I doubted the Ninja Gaiden trilogy listing awhile ago, but with what was said today, it's looking clear it's real now.
-Nobody mentioned this but holy **** Dark Souls being compared to Spicy Food is the best analogy I've read on Souls games my God.

All in all, the things around Ninja Gaiden in this interview all but confirms the Ninja Gaiden Sigma Trilogy exists and is coming, and Team Ninja are currently making new titles unrelated to Ninja Gaiden and Nioh as of this moment. There isn't much to be said in regards to Smash cause it's not like the interviewer was straight up asking him about it, so that response about when Hayabusa will appear in a new game is a take it or leave it kind of thing

 

[BritishGuy54]

If were gonna get one more platforming mascot, It's very likely gonna come down to Rayman or Crash Bandicoot, Both would be even better, But I doubt we'll get 2 platforming mascots with only 3 spots left to go.

I just find it weird to believe that Banjo-Kazooie would be the only platforming mascot in both fighter passes.

I used to flip flop on both Crash and Rayman, But Crash Bandicoot just has a lot more going for him right now. Rayman for me is starting to fade away only because you would think we would of gotten him by now seeing how Ubisoft seems very cooperative and has already provided a 3D model back in Smash 4 and not to mention Ultimate's already got Ubisoft side content.

I respect Rayman and would be cool if he made it in, But I'll still take Crash Bandicoot anyday of the week.

Personally, I’m flip flopping between Crash and Eggman. If Profile theory is false, Eggman has a better shot. If it’s true, let’s go Crash.

 

[Otoad64]

Personally, I’m flip flopping between Crash and Eggman. If Profile theory is false, Eggman has a better shot. If it’s true, let’s go Crash.

what's "profile theory"?

 

[SneakyLink]

what's "profile theory"?

If I had to guess, it is a theory involving the in game user icons and how, if you have one that character won’t join the battle.

So far it has been accurate but it could change.

 

[cothero]

If we follow Ayumi Tachibana, Imran Khan's and Vergeben's potential leaks/info, it's easy to conclude that the final three characters COULD be Lloyd/Yuri, Chun-Li and Hayabusa. All these characters are supported by those leakers cited above, minus Hayabusa, cuz Verge only gave details about the Nintendo meeting with KT and people are assuming it would most likely be about Hayabusa's inclusion.

Do i believe this as 100% guarantee? Of, course not. We could easily be surprised by a totally unexpected character in the midst of some very anticipated ones, but it's fun to speculate anyway.

edit: i'm sorry fot those who believe it, but the "profile theory" sounds quite stupid.

 

[Otoad64]

If I had to guess, it is a theory involving the in game user icons and how, if you have one that character won’t join the battle.

So far it has been accurate but it could change.

what do people think sakurai's gonna go "oh sorry we can't add this character they're already a profile picture"

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I just had a thought about Rex and this stance conversation. One of the most common ways I see people interpret his moveset is that he switches between multiple blades and if you've played Xenoblade 2, you'd know that Blades alter Rex's moveset completely. He'd basically be the next Pokemon Trainer only with the same hitbox throughout. This makes me wonder if perhaps if Rex and ARMS were considered again for DLC but Sakurai might have determined that would be too extensive for DLC development. The other alternative is to make him swap between just Pyra and Mythra who give him the same weapon but Sakurai seems keen on how he envisions a character to work and Rex can definitely be more than just swapping between two elements.

what do people think sakurai's gonna go "oh sorry we can't add this character they're already a profile picture"

It's the reverse. That character has a profile picture because Sakurai knows they're not going to do anything with that character. I'm not putting faith into it as anything special, I'm just relaying info.

 

[Greyfox22]

If we follow Ayumi Tachibana, Imran Khan's and Vergeben's potential leaks/info, it's easy to conclude that the final three characters COULD be Lloyd/Yuri, Chun-Li and Hayabusa. All these characters are supported by those leakers cited above, minus Hayabusa, cuz Verge only gave details about the Nintendo meeting with KT and people are assuming it would most likely be about Hayabusa's inclusion.

Do i believe this as 100% guarantee? Of, course not. We could easily be surprised by a totally unexpected character in the midst of some very anticipated ones, but it's fun to speculate anyway.

edit: i'm sorry fot those who believe it, but the "profile theory" sounds quite stupid.

I can't say much about the legitimacy of all that but I'm hoping it is true. Chun-Li, Hayabusa, and a Tails of rep would be very cool according to me

 

[cothero]

I just had a thought about Rex and this stance conversation. One of the most common ways I see people interpret his moveset is that he switches between multiple blades and if you've played Xenoblade 2, you'd know that Blades alter Rex's moveset completely. He'd basically be the next Pokemon Trainer only with the same hitbox throughout. This makes me wonder if perhaps if Rex and ARMS were considered again for DLC but Sakurai might have determined that would be too extensive for DLC development. The other alternative is to make him swap between just Pyra and Mythra who give him the same weapon but Sakurai seems keen on how he envisions a character to work and Rex can definitely be more than just swapping between two elements.

Rex returned a Mii costume, doesn't he? I'm not implying he wouldn't be possible because of that, but that could drastically hurt his chances.

 

[SharkLord]

Rex returned a Mii costume, doesn't he? I'm not implying he wouldn't be possible because of that, but that could drastically hurt his chances.

Rex is in a bit of a weird middle ground. Usually DLC Miis are a death sentence because generally, post-launch content implies that that's the role you're stuck with... But technically speaking, Rex's Mii wasn't post-launch, so that's up for debate regarding his chances.

 

[Otoad64]

It's the reverse. That character has a profile picture because Sakurai knows they're not going to do anything with that character. I'm not putting faith into it as anything special, I'm just relaying info.

I mean the fighter's pass 2 wasn't planned before the game released though

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I just had a thought about Rex and this stance conversation. One of the most common ways I see people interpret his moveset is that he switches between multiple blades and if you've played Xenoblade 2, you'd know that Blades alter Rex's moveset completely. He'd basically be the next Pokemon Trainer only with the same hitbox throughout. This makes me wonder if perhaps if Rex and ARMS were considered again for DLC but Sakurai might have determined that would be too extensive for DLC development. The other alternative is to make him swap between just Pyra and Mythra who give him the same weapon but Sakurai seems keen on how he envisions a character to work and Rex can definitely be more than just swapping between two elements.

You did note this, but I think the fact that Blades only change your moveset if they have a different weapon shouldn't be brushed aside. Rex's mandatory blades, Pyra and Mythra, both have the same weapon, so he doesn't actually run into this issue you describe. Roc does also relate to Rex, but he's (unfortunately) a very minor character, and it would be fine if he was left out.

EDIT: The other Blades are either random or could be put on anyone so they wouldn't likely be added regardless.

 

[MrMcNuts]

This is how Rayman will still win.

Rayman gang rise up! Still cautiously optimistic that he has a good shot!

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Rex returned a Mii costume, doesn't he? I'm not implying he wouldn't be possible because of that, but that could drastically hurt his chances.

The Rex costume IMO is a symptom of Sakurai determining Rex not being viable as DLC rather than the other way around of Sakurai not making Rex because he's a costume.

What I'm trying to get as is that Rex may have been totally viable for pass 2 as a character but when DarthEnderX brought up the fact that programming a stance character would be like making multiple characters for the price of one, it made me realize that maybe it's that fact that is keeping Rex from getting in Smash Ultimate's DLC.

 

[cothero]

I can't say much about the legitimacy of all that but I'm hoping it is true. Chun-Li, Hayabusa, and a Tails of rep would be very cool according to me

Plus, the abcence of Monster Hunter and Lloyd's Mii costumes reinforce the fact that the info they got could be right, if they're holding a Capcom and a Bamco rep to release them. This or MH/Lloyd are indeed going to be upgraded as playble fighters (or maybe one of them will).

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

You did note this, but I think the fact that Blades only change your moveset if they have a different weapon shouldn't be brushed aside. Rex's mandatory blades, Pyra and Mythra, both have the same weapon, so he doesn't actually run into this issue you describe. Roc does also relate to Rex, but he's (unfortunately) a very minor character, and it would be fine if he was left out.

EDIT: The other Blades are either random or could be put on anyone so they wouldn't likely be added regardless.

Yeah you're right and I've seen fan movesets that just change Rex's properties like Pyra and Mythra have different element effects and one is more powerful and the other is more consistent or stuff like that. If Nintendo really was pushing for Rex to be in I can imagine Sakurai might go "okay okay" but I'm thinking it's totally possible he might have had this creative vision for Rex w/ 3 blades that he can't realize in DLC.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Only five gunners we have are & . I think we could benefit greatly from another Gun Character Moveset-Wise, but I don't see it happening unless it's DFO or whoever the 2021 Character is. Mostly because most candidates are Western, and I can't see another Western Character after Steve unless it's Cadence, mostly because of the Lack of Music Licensing (OOPS! ALL ZELDA MUSIC!), Uniqueness, Indie Status with HUGE Nintendo Relevance, and Cadence of Hyrule.

Honestly, just make Samus more into a Gunner type of character.

It's time.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

So what say you? Hayabusa comes to Smash... and his unique character mechanic is NOT ninpo, not swappable weapons... but SWEAT PHYSICS!


He just gets sweatier down his arms as the fight goes on. Sweatiest Smash Brother ever!

 

[Otoad64]

Rex is in a bit of a weird middle ground. Usually DLC Miis are a death sentence because generally, post-launch content implies that that's the role you're stuck with... But technically speaking, Rex's Mii wasn't post-launch, so that's up for debate regarding his chances.

imo rex can still happen because the only reason he was mii'd was because he was planned but there wasn't enough time, they could still do him for fighter's pass 2

also the whole paying for the costume and the character thing doesn't apply to him because he's a free bonus

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

The Rex costume IMO is a symptom of Sakurai determining Rex not being viable as DLC rather than the other way around of Sakurai not making Rex because he's a costume.

What I'm trying to get as is that Rex may have been totally viable for pass 2 as a character but when DarthEnderX brought up the fact that programming a stance character would be like making multiple characters for the price of one, it made me realize that maybe it's that fact that is keeping Rex from getting in Smash Ultimate's DLC.

If it was just Pyra and Mythra they could just change the properties and leave the animations mostly the same. In Xenoblade 2 their special abilities make quite a large difference in how they operate, along with different stat spreads. A leveled-up Mythra allows Rex to chain specials indefinitely, and the moveset could lean into that kind of thing.

I think Rex would stick to those two for the same reasons that Joker only has Arsene.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So what say you? Hayabusa comes to Smash... and his unique character mechanic is NOT ninpo, not swappable weapons... but SWEAT PHYSICS!

He just gets sweatier down his arms as the fight goes on. Sweatiest Smash Brother ever!

Between Shirtless Sephiroth and Sweaty Hayabusa, I would have to start wondering if Sakurai is deliberately trying to send people to horny jail.

Alpharad's next CPUCS beach episode is gonna be nuts, I can already tell.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Very true.

Since the original inspiration for this topic was Nightmare. So the question is, in SC, do Nightmare's stance changes completely change his moves, or do they just change the properties of his moves?

It changes his moves, but all his stances function like Cloud's limits breaks in that performing any of these moves automatically brings him back to default.

 

[SKX31]

It changes his moves, but all his stances function like Cloud's limits breaks in that performing any of these moves automatically brings him back to default.

I'm not familiar with SC at all, so I gotta ask:

Does Nightmare also get a buff while in said Stance change in SC? And could he get some if that was implemented the same way in Smash? For reference, Cloud does get stat buffs while in Limit Break:

While retaining Limit Break status, all of his attributes change: his gravity, fall speed, fast fall speed, initial dash distance, and running speed are increased by 10%, his walk speed and traction are increased by 15%, and his air speed and acceleration are increased by 20%.

And likewise Sephiroth gets some insane stat buffs while in Winged:

Another example is 's Deep Breathing.

The stat buffs are not something most will notice because they're often kinda small (except for cases like Sephiroth's 30 % damage buff), but they're absolutely impactful - especially since those three cases are several small buffs rolled up into a package. If Nightmare would have similar buffs from the Stance change it would affect a lot.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm not sure a stance changing character is too complex for a fighter if Steve had to redo every stage.

Regardless, I always saw Rex and Pyra as more of a "pass the sword" type character. A more flashy, team dependent Ice Climbers.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I'm not sure a stance changing character is too complex for a fighter if Steve had to redo every stage.

Regardless, I always saw Rex and Pyra as more of a "pass the sword" type character. A more flashy, team dependent Ice Climbers.

Ironically what you're describing is Lora, the protagonist of the Xenoblade DLC campaign Torna.