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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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The Stoopid Unikorn

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We won't sit down until Pikmin gets some god d*** respect!

Okay, why exactly do we need to censor swears?
You don't. The website usually does it by itself. Just look.

****, ****, damn, ass

Anything it doesn't censor is fair game, though if you feel bad about a swear not being censored... that's fair too. :4pacman:

View attachment 332023

Just remembered this image. This takes me back.

I don’t miss those times :4pacman:
Reminds me of something I wrote on Discord all the way back.

1632911015414.png
 
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Evil Trapezium

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This week's Tourney is...


Characters with Wings!
Hooray! Banjo & Kazooie finally show up on a tournament picture!
 

osby

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we have 8 FE characters,3 links, a ganondorf, Steve, hero, sephiroth, cloud and many more. I think we’ve got enough for a sword tournament.
Hence the post you quoted is:

Do we have enough characters to warrant a Shield Tourney?
We already have people calling knives swords, I think it's better if we refrain from adding shields to the mix.
 

Flyboy

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I wonder if they're gonna have a spirit event early next week like they did the week Byleth was announced? If I recall correctly they showed the Astral Chain spirits on Monday and then an hour later announced Mr. Sakurai Presents ??? for the next day. Worrisome.

Realizing that my hopes for the final character that aren't any of my explicitly most-wanted fall into varying categories of Non-Fighter, Visual Novel Rep, or Capcom Character. Either that or a hype bomb. It's all so exciting. It's sad that the entire second pass had to be released during the pandemic and sad that the pandemic is a thing at all. The lack of Nintendo NYC reactions is such a shame.
 
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Opossum

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  • Is royalty (includes more in name only royalty like the "King of Evil", Ganondorf, but not Roy...)
The reason Roy isn't included is because he's only nobility, not royalty. His father Eliwood is a Marquess, not a King. One of his seven possible endings implies he becomes royalty long after the events of the game (as if he married Lilina then Pherae and Ostia unify and restructure the Lycian League into a kingdom), but for all but one possible epilogue, Roy is explicitly not royalty.
 
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Guys, remember Leak about Capcom Character?
Well, too bad, because Sora might stole the Spot or even character that we didn't ask for.

Or we might Get Sony rep without a warning. (Still unlikely despite Kratos is PS's Popular Icon he should be included in Smash no matter how he will be Violent).
 
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Cap'n Jack

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Poor Terry, barely got talked about on his own day. Folks just talked about leaks, which I guess works with Terry as he was infamously leaked.
 
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osby

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Guys, remember Leak about Capcom Character?
Well, too bad, because Sora might stole the Spot or even character that we didn't ask for.
Joker was just one trailer man, invitations aren't real. Sora can't steal anyone's spot if he was meant to be included in the first place, same goes for any other character.

Or we might Get Sony rep without a warning. (Still unlikely despite Kratos is PS's Popular Icon he should be included in Smash no matter how he will be Violent).
I don't see how Kratos is more violent than Bayonetta or Snake, he should be fine.
 
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Momotsuki

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Guys, remember Leak about Capcom Character?
Well, too bad, because Sora might stole the Spot or even character that we didn't ask for.

Or we might Get Sony rep without a warning. (Still unlikely despite Kratos is PS's Popular Icon he should be included in Smash no matter how he will be Violent).
Uh... pardon?
 
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True Blue Warrior

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Eh, I could make case that Castlevania is a pretty big third party deal, but since that situation also deals with the Smash speculation enigma, Ridley himself, it’s not exactly clear cut.
Simon is a classic NES character, but he doesn’t feel like a case like “Oh, he is such a clearly much bigger character than Ridley, I’m shocked he wasn’t revealed at E3” and it feels like Ridley is iconic enough relative to the Belmont boys where it makes sense Ridley would be chosen for E3.

Roy, Ryu and Lucas being followed up with I think Cloud does put a damper on the theory though, but I might be misremembering when Cloud was revealed.
Roy and Lucas aren’t newcomers, which is something I’d specified and Cloud is not a “clearly much bigger character than Ryu” even though he is a huge icon in his own right. SF2 not only made Avengers Endgame level of money at the arcades but had a lot of cultural impact. See this, this, this, this and this. Ryu’s moves, Shoryuken, Hadoken and Tatsumaki Senpukyaku and Ryu himself codified the very image of a fighting game character. You can argue that Ryu ≈ Cloud in terms of how huge these characters are as icons and you might even have an argument that Ryu is more iconic than Cloud due to arcades, but not that Cloud >>> Ryu. I need to once again reiterate that I am not arguing that Cloud isn’t a huge icon, merely debating the idea he is “much bigger” than Ryu. So Cloud isn’t a pattern breaker.
 

Gengar84

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You know what I always found weird? How leaks and rumors tend to vastly increase the demand of certain characters even after the leak is confirmed fake. It almost makes me wish someone would make a convincing “leak” of some of my most wanted characters. On one hand, it would suck to get my hopes up for nothing, but on the other, it would get more people to think about the character and may actually I help their chances in the future thanks to increased recognition and demand.
 

True Blue Warrior

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The thing with patterns though is that third party newcomers ramped up almost exponentially when it comes to Smash Ultimate DLC as compared to previous games. Brawl had two, Smash 4 base had two, Smash 4 DLC had three, base Ultimate had three and now Smash Ultimate DLC has seven. Saying things like “it’s never been third party at the end”, for example, misses the idea that third party newcomers have never been anywhere near the fifty-fifty split they are in Smash Ultimate DLC.
Actually, we did get a third-party character at the end of Smash 4 DLC.
 

Cutie Gwen

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You know what I always found weird? How leaks and rumors tend to vastly increase the demand of certain characters even after the leak is confirmed fake. It almost makes me wish someone would make a convincing “leak” of some of my most wanted characters. On one hand, it would suck to get my hopes up for nothing, but on the other, it would get more people to think about the character and may actually I help their chances in the future thanks to increased recognition and demand.
Yeah, it's because of 2 things, either it introduced someone to a character they liked after doing some research or they already liked the character but never considered them for Smash and then go "Oh **** that would be cool"
 

Gengar84

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Yeah, it's because of 2 things, either it introduced someone to a character they liked after doing some research or they already liked the character but never considered them for Smash and then go "Oh **** that would be cool"
That makes sense. I think my mind works a little differently than most others because I tend to just stick with my personal favorites and I don’t really get influenced by that kind of thing, not that there’s anything wrong with that. I don’t think you’ll ever see another person bring up Zegram for Smash, for example. That said, I’m pretty open to most characters and may end up enjoying them a lot once they get in, even if I didn’t really care about them previously (like Terry and Kazuya).
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Actually, we did get a third-party character at the end of Smash 4 DLC.
Yes that was a very poor example on my part. Probably could be amended to “huge third party” to make it more in line with the whole theory on decreasing hype people have.

Simon is a classic NES character, but he doesn’t feel like a case like “Oh, he is such a clearly much bigger character than Ridley, I’m shocked he wasn’t revealed at E3” and it feels like Ridley is iconic enough relative to the Belmont boys where it makes sense Ridley would be chosen for E3.



Roy and Lucas aren’t newcomers, which is something I’d specified and Cloud is not a “clearly much bigger character than Ryu” even though he is a huge icon in his own right. SF2 not only made Avengers Endgame level of money at the arcades but had a lot of cultural impact. See this, this, this, this and this. Ryu’s moves, Shoryuken, Hadoken and Tatsumaki Senpukyaku and Ryu himself codified the very image of a fighting game character. You can argue that Ryu ≈ Cloud in terms of how huge these characters are as icons and you might even have an argument that Ryu is more iconic than Cloud due to arcades, but not that Cloud >>> Ryu. I need to once again reiterate that I am not arguing that Cloud isn’t a huge icon, merely debating the idea he is “much bigger” than Ryu. So Cloud isn’t a pattern breaker.
Yeah, you’re definitely right that it’s much closer than “One clearly is the bigger deal.”, though Cloud does have his Smash-specific popularity in his favor as he was a very popular request. Still, like you said, Ryu definitely has the credentials to make a case for himself so it isn’t baffling at all that he was chosen for the E3 spot. Even more when you count the ballot as a possible reason why Cloud is in Smash and that he wasn’t really on the table at the same time as Ryu.

That does bring me to another point though: If the gap has to be that wide that the newcomer character by all merits ”should’ve” swapped with Kazuya, who can really boast that? Tekken is no slouch either, so the list of characters significantly “bigger” are Master Chief and Kratos, and if we’re taking into account Smash-specific popularity, maybe Sora. And, if that’s the case and the characters we’re talking about are from these megaton series, does the fact it’s the last character make it more plausible that they ”saved the best for last“?
 

True Blue Warrior

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That does bring me to another point though: If the gap has to be that wide that the newcomer character by all merits ”should’ve” swapped with Kazuya, who can really boast that? Tekken is no slouch either, so the list of characters significantly “bigger” are Master Chief and Kratos, and if we’re taking into account Smash-specific popularity, maybe Sora. And, if that’s the case and the characters we’re talking about are from these megaton series, does the fact it’s the last character make it more plausible that they ”saved the best for last“?
You could also argue that Crash is a significantly bigger character than Kazuya as he was the PS1 mascot who has the advantage of always being the titular cover boy of his 50+ million copies franchise, whereas Kazuya isn’t as all-encompassing in terms of prominence and marketing sharing the spotlight with Heihachi and Jin. Kazuya even missed Tekken 3
which is the biggest Tekken game in terms of sale which is around 8 million copies. With the sales factor of these franchises covered, I personally believe people who never played a Crash game is more likely to know of Crash as a character than they are to know of Kazuya as a character if they never played a Tekken game, but this isn’t a feeling I can scientifically prove.

Personally, I feel like the last character would most likely be a more “low key” third-party character in the same vein as Terry.
 

Dukefire

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Byleth: The Ashen Demon that caused a lot of salt for him/her being the last one for FP1 on initial reveal.
Yeah, another FE rep means automatic salt for the internet and boy did everyone see it. Of course, it wasn't over for DLC yet since FP2 was announced with 6 more characters coming soon.......which eventually lead to this trailer for the next one saved for tomorrow.
 
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The Rhythm Theif

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I think regardless of who the final fighter will be, there will be salt and pointless raging. The fact that there’s a grand total of one fighter left means there’s no more “chances” for people to have hope in having their pick join the game. All that will be left is flame wars and mudslinging. And everyone will have their “justifications” for their rage.

Even now there’s mudslinging because people want to slander anyone who doesn’t agree with their pick. I myself see it when I search for Sora fan support on Twitter; a surprising amount of what I find by plugging in “Sora Smash” is people saying and making rude memes on how Sora is never going to be in the game and that KH fans should cry about it. It’s so childish.
Agreed. As much as I don't want Sora in the game (for obvious reasons), I would never make rude memes about it.

That being said, if it's anyone not from Fortnite, I'll be OK with it.
 

Willbuysmash4mw

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Yes that was a very poor example on my part. Probably could be amended to “huge third party” to make it more in line with the whole theory on decreasing hype people have.



Yeah, you’re definitely right that it’s much closer than “One clearly is the bigger deal.”, though Cloud does have his Smash-specific popularity in his favor as he was a very popular request. Still, like you said, Ryu definitely has the credentials to make a case for himself so it isn’t baffling at all that he was chosen for the E3 spot. Even more when you count the ballot as a possible reason why Cloud is in Smash and that he wasn’t really on the table at the same time as Ryu.

That does bring me to another point though: If the gap has to be that wide that the newcomer character by all merits ”should’ve” swapped with Kazuya, who can really boast that? Tekken is no slouch either, so the list of characters significantly “bigger” are Master Chief and Kratos, and if we’re taking into account Smash-specific popularity, maybe Sora. And, if that’s the case and the characters we’re talking about are from these megaton series, does the fact it’s the last character make it more plausible that they ”saved the best for last“?
Smash Ultimate is on its last legs, saving the biggest characters for last 3 years later is a dumb business move because at the end of the day even the biggest character will only get Smash so far for a short period of time until the hype exhausts itself.

If they really had Sora or Master Chief etc then they should have revealed them at E3 at the absolute latest and ultimately more towards the middle of pass 2 for maximum hype effect to generate the most buzz possible about Ultimate while reveals were still happening.

This is why I am so confident about Nahobino. Introducing a new 3rd party series to Smash that has history with Nintendo and a long legacy but is just outside the mainstream enough to make his inclusion a more mysterious prospect is perfect for a Smash Ultimate that just revealed a character like Kazuya at E3 and is winding down. I was quiet for a while because I thought maybe the missing dub deconfirmed him, but with the dub being revealed in literally minutes my confidence is back to where it was despite the slightly earlier than expected final Smash character reveal. Smash needs a new franchise with a super new character to be the final character to extend Smash Ultimate into its next iteration and right now SMT is its best bet for that because of how long the development cycles for numbered SMT games are. This will not only help Smash and Switchs sell to new customers, but boost SMT’s popularity to make it become a big reliable 3rd party for Nintendo consoles in the future.
 

RileyXY1

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Smash Ultimate is on its last legs, saving the biggest characters for last 3 years later is a dumb business move because at the end of the day even the biggest character will only get Smash so far for a short period of time until the hype exhausts itself.

If they really had Sora or Master Chief etc then they should have revealed them at E3 at the absolute latest and ultimately more towards the middle of pass 2 for maximum hype effect to generate the most buzz possible about Ultimate while reveals were still happening.

This is why I am so confident about Nahobino. Introducing a new 3rd party series to Smash that has history with Nintendo and a long legacy but is just outside the mainstream enough to make his inclusion a more mysterious prospect is perfect for a Smash Ultimate that just revealed a character like Kazuya at E3 and is winding down. I was quiet for a while because I thought maybe the missing dub deconfirmed him, but with the dub being revealed in literally minutes my confidence is back to where it was despite the slightly earlier than expected final Smash character reveal. Smash needs a new franchise with a super new character to be the final character to extend Smash Ultimate into its next iteration and right now SMT is its best bet for that because of how long the development cycles for numbered SMT games are. This will not only help Smash and Switchs sell to new customers, but boost SMT’s popularity to make it become a big reliable 3rd party for Nintendo consoles in the future.
I don't know if Sakurai would want to do another Roy situation, especially with a 3rd party.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Smash Ultimate is on its last legs, saving the biggest characters for last 3 years later is a dumb business move because at the end of the day even the biggest character will only get Smash so far for a short period of time until the hype exhausts itself.

If they really had Sora or Master Chief etc then they should have revealed them at E3 at the absolute latest and ultimately more towards the middle of pass 2 for maximum hype effect to generate the most buzz possible about Ultimate while reveals were still happening.

This is why I am so confident about Nahobino. Introducing a new 3rd party series to Smash that has history with Nintendo and a long legacy but is just outside the mainstream enough to make his inclusion a more mysterious prospect is perfect for a Smash Ultimate that just revealed a character like Kazuya at E3 and is winding down. I was quiet for a while because I thought maybe the missing dub deconfirmed him, but with the dub being revealed in literally minutes my confidence is back to where it was despite the slightly earlier than expected final Smash character reveal. Smash needs a new franchise with a super new character to be the final character to extend Smash Ultimate into its next iteration and right now SMT is its best bet for that because of how long the development cycles for numbered SMT games are. This will not only help Smash and Switchs sell to new customers, but boost SMT’s popularity to make it become a big reliable 3rd party for Nintendo consoles in the future.
Oh yeah, personally I don’t think it’s gonna be a huge third party character but that is again partially because only a handful of characters could qualify as such out of the hundred-plus viable characters for Smash in general. Plus, yeah E3 would‘ve been the way to go.

The message of my previous posts wasn’t to say that “it‘s gonna be Master Chief/Sora/Crash etc.” but more to emphasize that even if the last character isn’t much bigger than Kazuya, Tekken‘s stature is still so big that anything equal or smaller to it doesn’t have to be a niche series and that the idea that the final character is less big of a deal than Kazuya still includes a lot of beloved series and only really excludes five or so characters.
 

Strong-Arm

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im still pretty optimistic about doomguy honestly

i feel like ppl randomly started to not think hed get in then just stopped talking about him for some reason

hes still got a omega good high chance like hes always had
 

Willbuysmash4mw

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I don't know if Sakurai would want to do another Roy situation, especially with a 3rd party.
They are waiting until just after TGS is over to reveal the character, and besides the big dlc expansion for Monster Hunter Rise, SMT V is the big game at the event that caps the whole thing off on the 3rd(less than 2 days before the reveal).

It wouldn’t be that much of a stretch for Sakurai to say to wait a month(as opposed to the usual 2 weeks) for the character to come out at the same time as the game.
 

Momotsuki

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I found Byleth to be a relatively uninteresting character and frankly they're the only newcomer in Ultimate I have a less-than-neutral opinion of. Including Chrom, whose inclusion I do not mind at all.

That said, I don't really see any reason to still be upset. It's done with, they're on the roster now and they're not doing any harm being there. 'Tis water under the bridge.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Ah Byleth, the DLC fighter that garnered the most sword for being yet again another Fire Emblem character and "anime swordsman".
 
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