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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

blackghost

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Yeah, cause it's a great idea to base business decisions on something people don't pay for...

If anything, that just proves people are excited to NOT have to spend money on Waluigi.
These comparisons and revisionist history are funny.

one walugi video cute. Sepiroth and Steve say hi.

also all of a sudden dlc pack two didnt appeal to fans? Like do people have the memory of goldfish???
 

blackghost

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Considering how often we repeat conversation topics, we might 😳
nintendo has made it VERY clear that dlc is about raising the profile of smash as a game (sepiroth and Steve and joker). DLC serves two major other purposes increasing business relationships behind the scenes and promoting games that Nintendo wants to sell more of (meaning fire emblem in this era). people complain and ***** here on forums but looking at three houses sales numbers... yeah it works. I bet if nintendo could logistically make it work metroid would get a character.

waluigi accomplishes none of that. there are plenty of characters that are iconic and would let nintendo build with (kratos, MC, Phoenix wirght RIP dante, and ahuri immediately come to mind)

and why upgrade waluigi over alucard, zero, or protoman?
 

ZelDan

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nintendo has made it VERY clear that dlc is about raising the profile of smash as a game (sepiroth and Steve and joker). DLC serves two major other purposes increasing business relationships behind the scenes and promoting games that Nintendo wants to sell more of (meaning fire emblem in this era). people complain and ***** here on forums but looking at three houses sales numbers... yeah it works. I bet if nintendo could logistically make it work metroid would get a character.

waluigi accomplishes none of that. there are plenty of characters that are iconic and would let nintendo build with (kratos, MC, Phoenix wirght RIP dante, and ahuri immediately come to mind)

and why upgrade waluigi over alucard, zero, or protoman?
Well, Waluigi is quite a bit popular himself.

He's also first party unlike the characters you mentioned, and thus wouldn't require any extra hoops to jump through to get.
 
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Idon

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nintendo has made it VERY clear that dlc is about raising the profile of smash as a game (sepiroth and Steve and joker). DLC serves two major other purposes increasing business relationships behind the scenes and promoting games that Nintendo wants to sell more of (meaning fire emblem in this era). people complain and ***** here on forums but looking at three houses sales numbers... yeah it works. I bet if nintendo could logistically make it work metroid would get a character.

waluigi accomplishes none of that. there are plenty of characters that are iconic and would let nintendo build with (kratos, MC, Phoenix wirght RIP dante, and ahuri immediately come to mind)

and why upgrade waluigi over alucard, zero, or protoman?
I mean, I'm not the one making any argument I was just ****posting.
I think that if we ever do get AT promotions, Waluigi would face some stiff competition regardless.

That said, Zero would be SIIIIIIIIIIICK. I actually made a big moveset for him, here.
If I were in charge of AT promotions, I'd say **** the smash fanbase and add these characters.
Idon AT promotions.png

They're cool and when it comes to characters people like picking, coolness factor is a top priority.
 
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WahHahaha

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I'm playing God of War right now and I keep thinking about Kratos in Smash. I think he would be a very cool fighter, there's tons of potential no matter which iteration of the character they pull from. They could go for a combo heavy character if they pull from the old God of War games, and they could even make a cool moveset with the Leviathan Axe if they pick the new Kratos.

If we ever get a sony rep he's definitely my #1 pick.
 

TheCJBrine

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and why upgrade waluigi over alucard, zero, or protoman?
Why upgrade any character over another? Who cares? They’d just be cool.

edit: also, while people do tend to have revisionist history on some things, I’m very confused by the idea Waluigi’s popularity is revisionist, not to mention he has way more than that one video and stuff to prove it.
 
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WahHahaha

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and why upgrade waluigi over alucard, zero, or protoman?
Because he's more relevant.

one walugi video cute. Sepiroth and Steve say hi.
This is like the 15th time I've seen this and I have no intention of restarting this argument about Sephiroth, but all I'm saying is people need to distinguish between "Oh wow that's cool and unexpected" and "that's a character I wanted" nobody talked about Sephiroth before he got in the game, he was on nobody's radar or wishlist. You can't act like he was this highly requested character the whole time but nobody ever talked about him.
 
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Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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This is like the 15th time I've seen this and I have no intention of restarting this argument about Sephiroth, but all I'm saying is people need to distinguish between "Oh wow that's cool and unexpected" and "that's a character I wanted" nobody talked about Sephiroth before he got in the game.
You know he had a support topic well before being in, right?

Really, this is a pretty boring argument to bring up. Almost every character was asked for before they get in. And only one got jokingly predicted(Wii Fit Trainer) at most.

A better example is Piranha Plant, a DLC character you couldn't actually find a decent support for at all. Cloud easily had support. Sephiroth had support. Hero had support. Byleth had support. You can bet Joker had support. Some just are more common to support than others due to common beliefs that certain things are unlikely.
 

WahHahaha

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You know he had a support topic well before being in, right?

He had some support. I'm sure there is a support thread for ****ing Carl Wheezer somewhere on the internet too. He was however, not highly requested in any sense. People are just making that up because they didn't see him coming.
 
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Idon

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Because he's more relevant.



This is like the 15th time I've seen this and I have no intention of restarting this argument about Sephiroth, but all I'm saying is people need to distinguish between "Oh wow that's cool and unexpected" and "that's a character I wanted" nobody talked about Sephiroth before he got in the game, he was on nobody's radar or wishlist. You can't act like he was this highly requested character the whole time but nobody ever talked about him.
Actually, we did talk about him, albeit not "naturally" as it were.
He was on the "Seven Squres" leak that basically compiled a bunch of credible-ish leakers' statements on which characters to watch out for.
Sephiroth was one of those 7 Square Enix characters which people mostly wrote off as a 2nd unique 3rd party character was unheard of and Erdrick was the primary character people expected as we were still in pass 1 territory.

Take this as a bit of trivia and not an argument lol.
 
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WahHahaha

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Actually, we did talk about him, albeit not "naturally" as it were.
He was on the "Seven Squres" leak that basically compiled a bunch of credible-ish leakers' statements on which characters to watch out for.
Sephiroth was one of those 7 Square Enix characters which people mostly wrote off as a 2nd unique 3rd party character was unheard of and Erdrick was the primary character people expected.

Everybody is going to be mentioned a little bit though, it's inevitable.
 
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Idon

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So, he actually was highly requested because he was one of seven characters in some leak that almost everybody forgot about?

I'm so confused... like what is this revisionist history that is used to paint every DLC fighter as some highly requested and completely deserving character? It doesn't matter if he was mentioned, in a game like this, EVERYBODY will be mentioned at some point. He was not highly requested at all. Telling me that some people were talking about him is not even a half decent argument.
You're the jumping the gun a little bit here.

I'm saying he was technically "talked" about. I've no opinion or knowledge on the magnitude of Sephiroth's popularity outside of the leak discussion.
Just a bit of smash speculation history that I wanted to bring up, nothing more.
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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He had some support. I'm sure there is a support thread for ****ing Carl Wheezer somewhere on the internet too. He was however, not highly requested in any sense. People are just making that up because they didn't see him coming.
Then somebody clearly asked for them.

That's why the argument is bad. Highly requested is irrelevant to bring up in this context when it rarely actually gets characters in. It can help, sometimes. But it's not like other factors don't exist. BK got in for more than being highly requested, after all.
 

WahHahaha

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You're the jumping the gun a little bit here.

I'm saying he was technically "talked" about. I've no opinion or knowledge on the magnitude of Sephiroth's popularity outside of the leak discussion.
Just a bit of smash speculation history that I wanted to bring up, nothing more.
I misinterpreted it as an argument against what I was saying because I did not see the last part. Sorry.




That's why the argument is bad. Highly requested is irrelevant to bring up in this context when it rarely actually gets characters in. It can help, sometimes. But it's not like other factors don't exist. BK got in for more than being highly requested, after all.
The only argument I ever made is that Sephiroth wasn't highly requested. He never has been, he's just an out of left field DLC character so that's why people got so excited for him.
 
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Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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The only argument I ever made is that Sephiroth wasn't highly requested. He never has been, he's just an out of left field DLC character so that's why people got so excited for him.
No, the argument you started making is he's not a character example of "that's a character I wanted". Which is clearly not true.

You changed your argument later on, which from what I can tell is that you worded it differently from your intentions. Might I suggest just being patient before posting, and making sure you say what you mean more clearly more often? You reply very fast, sometimes saying stuff that doesn't really support what you're actually meaning a bit too often. Be patient. You don't need to post fast to get a point across. It's okay to take time.

Let's just say from experience I've rewritten a post over 20 times to make sure it's as accurate to my point as possible. And sometimes I just decide not to post. Another way to put it is this; take your time. Nobody's in a hurry here.
 

N3ON

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I understand what he's saying and he's right, Sephiroth was not discussed much prior to him getting in. If he was being talked about, it was probably in the context of the Seven Squares, but Sephiroth was never the focus of that conversation until after the fact when people somehow erroneously started thinking it was some comprehensive leak list, which it never was.

That doesn't inherently mean he was unwanted, just not seriously thought about. If presented with the hypothetical, I suspect many people would've been on board with it, just as they would be on board with another popular third-party from an existing series. It just didn't seem like an outcome that would be realized any time soon, and therefore was given all but no attention.

But having a support topic really doesn't mean that much. Hundreds of characters have a support topic. Really all it means is that at least someone out there wants the character, but that doesn't signify volume. It's true that we made very little noise in the way of Sephiroth, which makes claiming he was added due to our efforts a dubious proposition. He was added because he's Sephiroth, and that appeal is going to bridge a lot of communities, us included.

He was probably also added in part because of how well Cloud sold last time, and how much the character is played. Makes sense to return to that well.
 

---

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Zachmac

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I think we need to distinct between a character being requested and a character being wanted.

People pretty much only request characters they want. But people are also way more likely to request characters they perceive as having a chance - afterall, you're more likely to have your request fulfilled if you ask for something the developers might already be tempted to include.

Of course some characters can overcome this if their cult following is vocal enough (Ridley is a BIG example), but for the most part people don't request characters that are viewed as impossible. For instance, if Joel Miller was put in the game people would probably go nuts - The Last of Us's popularity in the gaming sphere extends so far it even reaches into the Nintendo fandom sometimes - but no one is requesting Joel because we don't see the protag from a Sony exclusive game as all that possible, despite its critical acclaim. Sephiroth was in a similar spot. Lots of people love him, but when FF7 couldn't even get more then two songs in Smash 4, very few people saw another FF7 character as possibility, especially when other third parties like Sonic still haven't gotten a second character. Seph wasn't requested much because he wasn't wanted, he wasn't requested despite being wanted.

So all widely requested characters are wanted, but not all characters who are wanted are requested. In fact, I dare say there are probably dozens of sleeper characters that would be widely popular if revealed but just aren't talked about because they aren't seen as likely. Maybe FP11 will be another one.
 
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Staarih

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I feel like if Sephiroth was ever thought to have been possible prior to getting in - which never seemed to be a consensus after Cloud, the mentality of "one rep per third party company" or later "one rep per third party series" and "Square being difficult to deal with" or "Square being stingy with FF content" and all the other speculation-based ideas - he would definitely have been a popular pick and more conversation would have occurred around him. The circumstances at the time just dulled down the talk about him, but I feel like he was very wanted either way.
 

Theguy123

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Just woke up and Out of nowhere they’ve just announced that the whole of curious villages official OST and Pandora’s box’s OST along with mystery journey’s OST is now on iTunes.

not only was it announced, it’s titled all in English and isn’t under the Japanese titles. They seem to be keeping the series alive outside of Japan. Potential Layton news incoming of someo sort👀👀

out there theory, potential Layton in smash
 

The Rhythm Theif

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I mean, I'm not the one making any argument I was just ****posting.
I think that if we ever do get AT promotions, Waluigi would face some stiff competition regardless.

That said, Zero would be SIIIIIIIIIIICK. I actually made a big moveset for him, here.
If I were in charge of AT promotions, I'd say **** the smash fanbase and add these characters.
View attachment 330360
They're cool and when it comes to characters people like picking, coolness factor is a top priority.
I agree with Zero. Why do you think I made a support thread for him (based on his current Zero series appearance) in the first place?
 

Iko MattOrr

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Is another wave of disappointment coming in less than 2 hours or what?
I don't know much about time zones.
 
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Gengar84

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Because.

Because of the outcry when he was revealed as an assist. It was HUGE and to the point it made onto this internet news site.
I don’t really get all the outcry for Waluigi. I don’t really mind him but I think we already have more than enough Mario characters. I think Mario has more reps than any other franchise, especially if you count series of characters that originated from Mario like Wario, Yoshi, and DK (essentially anyone that shows up in spinoff games). You hear a ton of Fire Emblem and Pokémon hate for being over represented but Mario seems to get a pass with all the support Waluigi and Geno get.
 
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Guybrush20X6

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Just woke up and Out of nowhere they’ve just announced that the whole of curious villages official OST and Pandora’s box’s OST along with mystery journey’s OST is now on iTunes.

not only was it announced, it’s titled all in English and isn’t under the Japanese titles. They seem to be keeping the series alive outside of Japan. Potential Layton news incoming of someo sort👀👀

out there theory, potential Layton in smash
Well of all 3rd parties he's one with the strongest connections to Nintendo, even more so than Phoenix Wright as while both have had android and iOS releases, only Phoenix Wright has had Playstation releases.

Really, if it weren't for Level 5's troubles, he's probably be a front runner in the speculation scene.
 

chocolatejr9

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I don’t really get all the outcry for Waluigi. I don’t really mind him but I think we already have more than enough Mario characters. I think Mario has more reps than any other franchise, especially if you count series of characters that originated from Mario like Wario, Yoshi, and DK (essentially anyone that shows up in spinoff games). You hear a ton of Fire Emblem and Pokémon hate for being over represented but Mario seems to get a pass with all the support Waluigi and Geno get.
It's because Waluigi is a meme.
 

blackghost

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Well, Waluigi is quite a bit popular himself.

He's also first party unlike the characters you mentioned, and thus wouldn't require any extra hoops to jump through to get.
If a character is worth it (outside of sora) sakurai and Nintendo have a track record of making it happen. Even being first party the question still would be why him? Theres so many charcters that could be picked more relevant such as pokemon or metroid or zelda. Nintendo is picking not sakurai. you have to be able to convince the money and decision makers running Nintendo why waluigi should get in. A character that has never even appeared in a mainline game. that's the part people seem to miss. Its a to a lesser extent why the geno vs any other SE character

Personally, i think sakurai used his personal influence to get terry. he may have had sway on one character due to his status but getting a second would be very challenging.

It's because Waluigi is a meme.
exactly, and hows nintendo supposed to tell he's even actually popular vs just a joke? game sales? merchandise? he's got none of that. people cry on the internet about anything.
 
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Professor Pumpkaboo

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Well of all 3rd parties he's one with the strongest connections to Nintendo, even more so than Phoenix Wright as while both have had android and iOS releases, only Phoenix Wright has had Playstation releases.

Really, if it weren't for Level 5's troubles, he's probably be a front runner in the speculation scene.
We can be happy for Layton getting something without people bringing in Level 5 ,can we..
 

MasterCheef

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so based on this

Nintendo's 2020 output is mostly revealed now -- except for Pokemon Expansion release & next Smash Bros. fighter.

Super Mario 3D All Stars & Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity are the big Nintendo titles for this holiday.

More 3rd-party stuff still to be announced.

Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity fills in Nintendo's holiday with more Zelda by @jeffgrubb
https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/08/hyrule-warriors-age-of-calamity-fills-in-nintendos-holiday-with-zelda/

https://twitter.com/NateTheHate2/status/1303348985399255040

do you all think this increases chances for a direct this month?
 
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so based on this

Nintendo's 2020 output is mostly revealed now -- except for Pokemon Expansion release & next Smash Bros. fighter.

Super Mario 3D All Stars & Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity are the big Nintendo titles for this holiday.

More 3rd-party stuff still to be announced.

Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity fills in Nintendo's holiday with more Zelda by @jeffgrubb
https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/08/hyrule-warriors-age-of-calamity-fills-in-nintendos-holiday-with-zelda/

https://twitter.com/NateTheHate2/status/1303348985399255040

do you all think this increases chances for a direct this month?
Whelp, that's that then. No Smash fighter being revealed in the potential direct.

Move along folks! The ride of Ultimate continues.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Nothing is as eternally relevant as the slew of Mario spin-offs coming out each year, and I feel it’s very reductionist to say Nintendo would only pick their own characters if they are directly profitable. Nintendo has already shown to have picked a very balanced roster of characters, including characters that were argued to have no chance on the basis of Nintendo’s perceived priorities such as Joker and Banjo.

To say Waluigi would have no marketing value to Nintendo is incredibly silly and it’s even sillier to say all the possible characters can be divided in “third party“ and “very direct shill on Nintendo’s side”

so based on this

Nintendo's 2020 output is mostly revealed now -- except for Pokemon Expansion release & next Smash Bros. fighter.

Super Mario 3D All Stars & Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity are the big Nintendo titles for this holiday.

More 3rd-party stuff still to be announced.

Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity fills in Nintendo's holiday with more Zelda by @jeffgrubb
https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/08/hyrule-warriors-age-of-calamity-fills-in-nintendos-holiday-with-zelda/

https://twitter.com/NateTheHate2/status/1303348985399255040

do you all think this increases chances for a direct this month?
Well I sure hope that Nintendo’s 2020 output has been revealed by now, lest we’re stuck in a time loop of some sorts.
 
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