Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

There was much more interest for them to add Travis than SMTV Protagonist, since Travis not only had a game there, he was also being given ports in the pipeline, and NMH3 moved on very quickly. In the time it's taken for SMTV to be announced, shown off three years later, then released, we've gotten Travis Strikes Back, NMH1 and 2 ports, and NMH3 as well. If there was any interest in a shill character, it would have been him; he's the easiest to develop a plan around.

Eh... Travis Strikes Again was a very low budget title that Suda used to get more money for III while gauging interest, I'm not sure this is as comparable to say, a console exclusive from a prolific partner who had just seen a ****ton of success back in 2017 while being a franchise that crossed over with one of Nintendo's biggest hits in the 3ds era, especially as it can be argued that if SMTV was falling behind in development, they could simply just use a different SMT character who funny enough, was also getting a remaster meaning delays wouldn't matter as much for that

 

[SKX31]

No. I hope for the next game, they just record a bunch of dialogues for potential characters so that they can add them in retroactively.

Or better yet, keep the KI U crew around for DLC season.

But this is Nintendo ("Another minor cost where we can cut corners instead? Heresy!"), so of course they'll not consider it.

Custom specials were just a total disaster in every regard.

It's just a fundamentally flawed concept, I think. Obviously you can't make fully original moves for everyone because that's hundreds upon hundreds of extra moves you'd have to design, animate and balance, so all you're left with are just a bunch of half assed and janky variations for everyone outside of Palutena and the Miis. Like part of the fun of Smash is seeing all of these characters come together and do the stuff they do in their games, so who in their right mind wants to see stupid **** like Mario throwing fireballs that don't bounce or DK becoming an air/fire bender? Throw in the ludicrous unlock system and it's like, god damn. The whole thing was a tire fire, and I'm so glad it didn't come back in Ultimate.

Everyone.*


*Good execution required.

Never forget, the jank could be amazing though (in the weirdest ways, but still):

Nintendo tells Sakurai to make additional custom sets of moves for Hero's down B:

Command Selection but 3 out of 4 options are always Hocus Pocus / Kamikaze.

The best kind of Down B, and you can't convince me otherwise.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nintendo tells Sakurai to make additional custom sets of moves for Hero's down B:

Spoiler

They would probably end up being a less random option but with weaker options, and one with more common strong options, but Kamikaze and Hocus Pocus appear a lot.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

RE: Customs

I support a refined custom move system. Easier to obtain than Smash 4, the moves should be balanced for both free-for-all and 1 on 1. I like the idea of the same character having different builds. I get why they couldn't go super crazy with them (8 additional specials x +80 characters = 640 specials to balance on top of their regular moves).

If that isn't feasible then I wouldn't be opposed to additional echo fighters who use their original's custom specials.

Give Daisy and Dark Samus some of their original's old custom moves and we'd be golden for echos that are too similar (alone with making up some new ones for Richter)

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I mean, even if we assume that Nintendo views other company's presentations as factors in the timing of their videos (which has not stopped the former from doing major reveals at E3 and the Game Awards), for all we know they might view the two as having separate audiences and/or thinking that it makes all the more sense to get ahead of Sony in terms of notable announcements. Given Sony's struggles in Japan, Nintendo might see a Direct as being strong enough to dominate discussion/news in that market, even if it might be fighting for attention in the West.

Don't forget that Nintendo probably wouldn't know what Sony is doing unless they announce something officially.
So something like this could happen:

Direct WAS gonna be on the 9th.
Nintendo sees the playstation announcement.
Push the direct either a day forward, or back a week.

OR Nintendo gives 0 ***** and keeps their original plans in order and execution

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Never forget, the jank could be amazing though (in the weirdest ways, but still):

On that last clip, I'd like to point out that in the previous game, the buried state reduced your knockback. Little Mac died at 55% despite this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Considering I prefer alternate movesets to still play largely the same as the original? I vastly prefer how custom moves are. Palutena and Mii Fighters had the mechanic of "unique" alternate moves to separate them too. And they suffered for it far more than anyone else, as well. As they had no clear playstyle, nor one that was easy to work with for tournaments.

Grinding for them wasn't too bad, as I found the latest Target Test honestly fun. But why could you get multiples of the same custom move? That was stupid. You could sell custom parts, and having more than one of the same kind allowed for unique enough stat builds, so that was actually not an issue. Albeit, it's the only time that kind of Target Test actually combined well with the latest big game mechanic. Otherwise, it was a fun thing to do on its own... save for Brawl, which got boring fast since there was only five, not really giving you any reason to explore how a character plays(it does work in 4, because you needed to figure out each angle to properly get the hit in to hit the right targets, especially whatever drop it was, being trophy or custom pieces).

Likewise, the drop rate for Trophies was godawful for new ones. You had a legit chance in Melee, though small, via the lottery machine. Here? You had to play that annoying break the box mini-game over and over for a new one to show up. Hopefully. I had less trouble getting new custom moves... Even Stickers had a better rate(albeit, Trophies in Brawl were hard to get, period. A very poor design choice as is).

But since bringing 'em back is not just a chore, but there's no good way to grind for 'em(Target Blast coming back would help) to begin with, the only real use is reusing a few for some Echoes as much as possible. Daisy would actually feel worth the addition besides, well, for the fans. Having a gameplay difference is nice, but it's nicer when it has even a tiny impact or more. Dark Samus would be the only other one who could benefit from this, actually. Richter has nothing to really look at.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

Custom moves and equipment were absolutely hilarious to mess around with in casual matches, especially since you could choose to randomize them, so doing that along with selecting a random character makes for some absolute shenanigans where nobody knows anything that is about to happen. The unlocking process just needed to be infinitely more streamlined for them.

 

[Eldrake]

Could you imagine if Smash Ultimate newcomers had custom moves

Get ready for Windy Propellerpack for K. Rool

Skewer but it has multiple hits and the sweetspot is even harder to land
Skewer but Ridley can jump backward or forward during the skewer and the sweetspot does less damage

 

[FreeFox]

If customs moves were to ever return, I would just have one demand. Get rid of Jigglypuff´s smash 4 custom moves.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

If customs moves were to ever return, I would just have one demand. Get rid of Jigglypuff´s smash 4 custom moves.

NGL, Kirby's custom moves were really good since we're talking about Smash 4 customs. I mean, come on - we've all used Jumping Inhale at least once to do some crazy BS with it.


Now if only they could just bring back the Spacie Killer...

(Note: The victims playing Fox & Falco in this video were actually good players.)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Imagine Steve's Neutral Special's custom moves. It'd probably be some combination of:

• Mine has a hitbox now, and probably spikes at the ledge. In exchange, you get materials very slowly.
• Mine is no longer terrain dependant.
• Mine's material rotation doesn't reset upon death.
• Craft now makes Netherite tools with diamonds. They are stronger, but you get them much later in the rotation.
• Craft makes armour instead of tools, and your tools don't break. However, you can't make better tools.
• Create Block makes blocks that clash with all attacks.
• Create Block makes blocks that are affected by gravity, and have hitboxes as they fall.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Custom specials as an idea isn't bad and I doubt anyone here is going to oppose the concept of more options and movesets for characters (as long as they're balanced and executed well).

An example of a fighting game that does this but in a more streamlined fashion, Melty Blood has a system of mechanics called moon styles. This mechanic gives every character on the roster a choice between three types of moveset. Not only do these styles change the the mechanics of the character, but they also change their movement options and attacks. To give a simple introduction on all the styles, Crescent Moon emphasizes speed and versatility, Half Moon is average in power and speed, and Full Moon focuses on damage more than anything else.

I'll explain this using Roa, where I will be discussing how his 214 special changes in each style.

In Crescent Moon this special allows him to set up electric bombs that he can detonate later.

In Half Moon the special is a thunder strike that hits from behind Roa.

In Full Moon the special is a basic thunder strike that hits from above ala Pikachu.

And this is just one special move, this isn't going into the various other different mechanics between the three styles. Melty Blood has only 31 characters, but with the moon mechanic the roster has 93 different playstyles! If custom moves do make a comeback in the next Smash game then I hope they're more streamlined and balanced like in Melty Blood.

 

[NessAtc.]

Eh... Travis Strikes Again was a very low budget title that Suda used to get more money for III while gauging interest, I'm not sure this is as comparable to say, a console exclusive from a prolific partner who had just seen a ****ton of success back in 2017 while being a franchise that crossed over with one of Nintendo's biggest hits in the 3ds era, especially as it can be argued that if SMTV was falling behind in development, they could simply just use a different SMT character who funny enough, was also getting a remaster meaning delays wouldn't matter as much for that

If SMTV is the reason you're going for SMT, it's counter-productive to pick a different character. There's zero reason to pick Demifiend, for example, over the smtv protag.

Also, yes, Atlus did see a ****ton of success in 2017. From Persona 5. And Nintendo acted on it. They could care less about SMT mainline, and Atlus themselves barely do anyway. That's why there's such a long gap between games; Atlus would rather direct the personnel over to P-Studio than Zero Team. Persona 5's success means absolutely nothing for SMT.

 

[Paraster]

RE: Customs

I support a refined custom move system. Easier to obtain than Smash 4, the moves should be balanced for both free-for-all and 1 on 1. I like the idea of the same character having different builds. I get why they couldn't go super crazy with them (8 additional specials x +80 characters = 640 specials to balance on top of their regular moves).

If that isn't feasible then I wouldn't be opposed to additional echo fighters who use their original's custom specials.

I'm reminded of a few videos Delzethin made where he conceptualized new custom moves, only doing one per direction per character while emphasizing balance and references more than Smash 4 did. I think this "quality over quantity" approach would work best.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If SMTV is the reason you're going for SMT, it's counter-productive to pick a different character. There's zero reason to pick Demifiend, for example, over the smtv protag.

Also, yes, Atlus did see a ****ton of success in 2017. From Persona 5. And Nintendo acted on it. They could care less about SMT mainline, and Atlus themselves barely do anyway. That's why there's such a long gap between games; Atlus would rather direct the personnel over to P-Studio than Zero Team. Persona 5's success means absolutely nothing for SMT.

Idk I feel like featuring one of your biggest modern IPs with SMT and how it was announced tells me that SMT could indeed be cared less for, the expression is couldn't care less. I also think it's unfair to say NMHIII would work whereas SMTV couldn't as only one was featured for that Nintendo event, didn't depend on a low budget spinoff to see the light of day and is an IP Nintendo already used in a crossover with one of their major IPs. Also, the second pass was greenlit in let's say, early 2019 judging by how Banjo was negotiated at E3 2018, wouldn't that mean SMTHD was already in the works, meaning they'd have a reason to pick Demifiend who was already a fanfavourite among SMT fans?

 

[Dinoman96]

I guess for Banjo, he'd probably have the fire and ice eggs from Tooie for his neutral customs, which would of been neat.

But then we'd have to deal with "Shock Spring Attack", which makes Banjo jump way lower but it's okay because the shock spring now deals like 40% to anyone it hits

 

[MattX20]

It began full scale development (i.e the part that matters) late 2017. Also, SMTV didn't get announced at that presentation, "a new Shin Megami Tensei title" got announced. They couldn't even say it was V at the time until a few months later.

As for Fire Emblem Warriors, it may have, but it also released that year, so I don't see your point. Presence at the presentation is merely a benchmark for "what could happen". And Not only could they not show anything from SMTV, they couldn't for three years after that.

My point is that "SMT was announced there", but not in any sort of meaningful way. It's the same as saying Bayonetta 3 or Metroid Prime 4 were revealed at their respective events; it's true, but what does it matter when they showed jack **** of it? And for a series like SMT, that's practically a death sentence.

There was much more interest for them to add Travis than SMTV Protagonist, since Travis not only had a game there, he was also being given ports in the pipeline, and NMH3 moved on very quickly. In the time it's taken for SMTV to be announced, shown off three years later, then released, we've gotten Travis Strikes Back, NMH1 and 2 ports, and NMH3 as well. If there was any interest in a shill character, it would have been him; he's the easiest to develop a plan around.

So, who would you say are some decently likely candidates for FP11 to be? I'm currently looking at Phoenix Wright, Arle, and a few others due to them having games or new content releasing before 2017 and the end of 2018

 

[NessAtc.]

Idk I feel like featuring one of your biggest modern IPs with SMT and how it was announced tells me that SMT could indeed be cared less for, the expression is couldn't care less. I also think it's unfair to say NMHIII would work whereas SMTV couldn't as only one was featured for that Nintendo event, didn't depend on a low budget spinoff to see the light of day and is an IP Nintendo already used in a crossover with one of their major IPs. Also, the second pass was greenlit in let's say, early 2019 judging by how Banjo was negotiated at E3 2018, wouldn't that mean SMTHD was already in the works, meaning they'd have a reason to pick Demifiend who was already a fanfavourite among SMT fans?

Fire Emblem's size occurred after Awakening, and TMS#FE happened before it truly exploded. At that time, FE was still a C-lister, and came off the heels of New Mystery, which was a colossal failure.
NMH3 didn't really rely on Travis Strikes Back, since they directly teased NMH3 within TSB. NMH3 was always going to happen, most likely, TSB's success just had implication on how much they could do for NMH3.

The second pass was greenlit then, sure, but they already knew exactly what characters they would pick way, way before that. That's why ARMS didn't have any music in base game, and why Xeno 2 didn't have Torna content at the time. You can't honestly think it's a coincidence that every character thus far was prior to 2018/negotiated for in 2018, and that every character since has been spirited.

I appreciate the concern for my grammar, but "could care less" and "couldn't care less" are actually synonymous. The confusion was so long standing that it just became agreed they meant the same thing. You can look it up, if you wish.

So, who would you say are some decently likely candidates for FP11 to be? I'm currently looking at Phoenix Wright,, Arle, and a few others due to them having games or new content releasing before 2017 and the end of 2018

All I can say is that most likely everything you're thinking about is wrong, and it's frankly ridiculous to dismiss the ballot.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The speculation on the evidence was also misconstrued. Bayonetta might not have “won” the entire ballot but it’s a safe bet that she placed highly in the early days of the ballot. Enough to warrant being chosen as a ballot choice even if it was just from the earliest results.

Dude, just...no. All of Smash 4's DLC was decided before the ballot even started. If she happened to do well in the ballot(which we'll never know), it was just a happy accident for Nintendo.

You do realize we are having a big playstation showcase this week, which might feature the first gameplay for God of War: Ragnarok and Uncharted for PC. Why would it make sense for Nintendo to drop a direct this week?

Because Nintendo doesn't care what Sony does?

If they decide to bring customisation back into a new Smash game then I hope they make use of the elemental effects. Like you add an elemental effect on Mario like electricity and now all of his normal attacks have electrical properties. I think that would be pretty cool and you could have actual type matchups like what was shown a little bit in brawl with the Pokemon Trainer and the starter pokemon.

Oh cool. So you pick the wrong type in normal matches and you'll just autolose. Great.

They got rid of that **** for a reason. Rock-paper-scissors is not how you balance a fighting game.

Then bring back squad strike and have a button to switch characters on the fly

Like Pokemon Trainer, but instead of Trainer in the background, it's Master Hand vs. Crazy Hand.

Nintendo tells Sakurai to make additional custom sets of moves for Hero's down B:

If Ultimate had custom moves, I bet Hero would have had 3 set menus instead of 1 randomized menu.

 

[toonito]

while we're on the topic here's my ideas for customs. they mostly follow the faster but weaker/stronger but laggier archetypes

my ideas for customs

Spoiler: Hadoken

(1) Denjin Hadoken: multi hit with electric properties (SFIII)
(2) Big Hadoken: bigger but slower (Smash exclusive)

Spoiler: Shoryuken

(1) Metsu Shoryuken: multi hit starts w/ elbow jab slower but stronger (SF Alpha)
(2) Wind Shoryuken: non damaging greater height than other shoryuken but has windbox, can push opponents away (Smash exclusive)

Spoiler: Tatsumaki

(1) Shinku Tatsumaki: multi hit also has windbox pulls opponents in but Ryu is stationary (SF Alpha)
(2) Ascending Tatsumaki: multi hit that travels vertically (Smash exclusive)

Spoiler: Focus Attack

(1) Hashogeki: takes damage and counters with a Hadoken palm attack (think ) (SFV)
(2) Alpha Counter: upon blocking an opponent's attack a streak of lightning appears and Ryu counters with an uppercut or a leg sweep (SF Alpha)

customs

Spoiler: Hadoken

(1) Double Hadoken: fires two Hadoken in quick succession; faster but weaker than Ken's regular hadoken (SFIV Omega)
(2) Reppu Hadoken: fires Hadoken from his foot; can be angled by up diagonally (SFIV Omega)

Spoiler: Shoryuken

(1) Shoryureppa: multiple shoryuken slower but stronger significant end lag (SFII Turbo)
(2) Speed Shoryuken: faster but weaker shoryuken (Smash exclusive)

Spoiler: Tatsumaki

(1) Flame Tatsumaki: single hit with flame properties (SFV)
(2) Ryusenkyaku: wheel kick where Ken hits opponent from above; somewhat similar to 's Crack Shoot (CvS)

Spoiler: Focus Attack

(1) Senpu Nataotoshi: takes damage from an close ranged attack and counters with a flaming kick (SFV)
(2) Alpha Counter: upon blocking an opponent's attack a streak of lightning appears and Ken counters with an uppercut or a midsection kick

 

[ahemtoday]

I... wasn't that into custom moves at all in Smash 4. And it's not like I used them competitively or even in multiplayer or anything - they were just kind of... messy all around.

Honestly, though, I think if all the moves were unique, I really wouldn't like it.

I really disliked playing as Palutena even with customs off because I always felt like "oh, maybe I should have picked different moves for her / played with customs on because that's kind of her gimmick". I don't think I ever really touched her until Ultimate. I would not like this feeling to apply to every single character on the roster.

 

[Idon]

"Sir what moves should we give Ike?"
"Well obviously his flashy aether as his up B... perhaps we can retrofit his critical hit into his side B... What else could he do?"
"Well sir he has a projecti-"
"Damn nothing left huh, guess we'll have to make the last 2 moves a generic counter and a random ground explosion."

Just give him his goddamn blade beam.

 

[ahemtoday]

"Sir what moves should we give Ike?"
"Well obviously his flashy aether as his up B... perhaps we can retrofit his critical hit into his side B... What else could he do?"
"Well sir he has a projecti-"
"Damn nothing left huh, guess we'll have to make the last 2 moves a generic counter and a random ground explosion."

Just give him his goddamn blade beam.

Honestly, they extended the range on Eruption in Ultimate. I reckon next game they should just turn it into a blade beam with the same charging mechanic.

 

[Momotsuki]

Doesn't Doc still use Smash 4-style "equipment" even in Ultimate? Just a funny leftover if I remember correctly.

 

[Theguy123]

So, who would you say are some decently likely candidates for FP11 to be? I'm currently looking at Phoenix Wright,, Arle, and a few others due to them having games or new content releasing before 2017 and the end of 2018

phoneix Wright
arle
professor Layton
eggman, phantasy star (anything but PSO2)

and then anything that’s relatively smaller/smallish (there’s tons that I won’t be able to say but everyone always goes for bigger names and doesn’t stop to think about the smaller titles that are niche)

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So, who would you say are some decently likely candidates for FP11 to be? I'm currently looking at Phoenix Wright, Arle, and a few others due to them having games or new content releasing before 2017 and the end of 2018

Just quote what I posted a few days ago.

Akira Howard
Frisk
Nahobino
Resident Evil rep
Waluigi

Honorable Mentions: Rayman, Rhythm Heaven rep, Ryu Hayabusa

A Resident Evil rep is back on the table since the spirit event was back in Pass 1. Also kinda fits into fix/second chance considering if they were planned or considered but then plans fell through until Pass 2 came to fruition, could explain the sixth slot taking a few moments when Pass 2 was announced.

 

[MattX20]

All I can say is that most likely everything you're thinking about is wrong, and it's frankly ridiculous to dismiss the ballot.

Phoenix was quite popular along with the Monster Hunter during the ballot period as I recall. It's why I was asking you who you thought were likely candidates

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Oh cool. So you pick the wrong type in normal matches and you'll just autolose. Great.

Yep. That's how it goes I'm afraid. If you just so happen to pick the wrong type, the opponent one hit KOs you. Fighting back is pointless. You have no chance of winning, no chance at all. So long dreams of winning in a video game. Time to give up, it's pointless. No more winning for you.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Fire Emblem's size occurred after Awakening, and TMS#FE happened before it truly exploded. At that time, FE was still a C-lister, and came off the heels of New Mystery, which was a colossal failure.
NMH3 didn't really rely on Travis Strikes Back, since they directly teased NMH3 within TSB. NMH3 was always going to happen, most likely, TSB's success just had implication on how much they could do for NMH3.

The second pass was greenlit then, sure, but they already knew exactly what characters they would pick way, way before that. That's why ARMS didn't have any music in base game, and why Xeno 2 didn't have Torna content at the time. You can't honestly think it's a coincidence that every character thus far was prior to 2018/negotiated for in 2018.

I appreciate the concern for my grammar, but "could care less" and "couldn't care less" are actually synonymous. The confusion was so long standing that it just became agreed they meant the same thing. You can look it up, if you wish.



All I can say is that most likely everything you're thinking about is wrong, and it's frankly ridiculous to dismiss the ballot.

Fair point for FE as after some extra digging, it was conceptualized in 2010 but I still think the idea that Nintendo was willing to have a crossover at all suggest a higher than zero interest, while you can argue it isn't super meaningful, it cannot be denied this is a rarity for a franchise which is as low calibur as you claim

Nah, Suda flatout said NMHIII wasn't in the works and needed TSA to be a success during TSA's early development, adding a short scene at the end of the game after managing to get a deal with Nintendo doesn't contradict that.

Ooh, do you want the "You can't honestly think it's a coincidence all the characters in the pass ave been third party" rebuttal or the "You can't honestly think it's a coincidence the first party characters in the passes are from recent Switch games"? Not only did Torna launch a mere 3 months before Ultimate which idk about you but sounds like a good reason why it didn't get base game content, but Smash has always had odd music exclusions so I fail to see what makes ARMS super special here, especially as XB2 did have music meaning if it was planned that far in advance like you claim, XB2 wouldn't have had it's music either. As for the timing, this still benefits SMT, Nintendo planned for the pass to take 2 years and SMTV indeed fit those 2 years, who knows, the game would be out by know had we not had COVID **** up and hey, Nocturne HD still fits that circumstance just in case V wasn't far enough in development by the time the pass was in it's second half.

It's still wrong regardless if people think it's right

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So, who would you say are some decently likely candidates for FP11 to be? I'm currently looking at Phoenix Wright, Arle, and a few others due to them having games or new content releasing before 2017 and the end of 2018

Well Arle and Phoenix Wright are the front runners at Sega and Capcom respectively and both cover genres with little to no character representation (Dr Mario alone for puzzle and no-one for VN) but outside of them they could also do what Square did and expand and existing series. Sonic, Megami Tensei, Street Fighter and Mega Man have no shortage of characters.

Then we have a few possible Nintendo characters including Euden from Dragalia Lost, Kiran from Fire Emblem Heroes, Dixie Kong from Donkey Kong Country and the always contentious Gen 8 Pokemon (Incoming over analysis of tree textures. )

Finally a couple of new companies who could jump on at the last minute like Level 5 with Imuza 11 or Professor Layton; Ubisoft with Rayman or Rabbid Peach; Koei Tecmo with Ryu Hiabusa; or one of them companies that make the MOBA games the kids of yesterday were nuts about..

I have me doubts Activision or Bethesda will jump on board character-wise given circumstances but hey, I can be proven wrong.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

NMH3 didn't really rely on Travis Strikes Back, since they directly teased NMH3 within TSB. NMH3 was always going to happen, most likely, TSB's success just had implication on how much they could do for NMH3.

Sequel bait doesn't always mean that a sequel will be made though. Just ask Xenoblade Chronicles X.

The second pass was greenlit then, sure, but they already knew exactly what characters they would pick way, way before that. That's why ARMS didn't have any music in base game, and why Xeno 2 didn't have Torna content at the time.

I dunno if you can definitively say that. Games that miss the timing have historically just not gotten any content at all, so I wouldn't say it's weird that ARMS didn't get any music, and I'm pretty sure Xenoblade Chronicles 2: Torna ~ The Golden Country is late enough that it wouldn't have been able to get even what Xenoblade Chronicles 2 did (that and it barely got anything even with Pyra/Mythra so it clearly wasn't a priority).

 

[SNEKeater]

Why is everyone so certain we are getting an announcement tomorrow? You do realize we are having a big playstation showcase this week, which might feature the first gameplay for God of War: Ragnarok and Uncharted for PC. Why would it make sense for Nintendo to drop a direct this week?

Literally anything they do is gonna be overshadowed by God of War, the game is that anticipated.

I don't think we're getting a Direct this week, I actually feel it's going to next week. But Nintendo isn't going to drastically change their plans, specially when you have to promote certain games, and those also include third party games, not only first party titles.

It's not like the PlayStation Showcase was announced months ago so Nintendo could change their planning. I agree that if a Nintendo Direct happens this week most of the spotlight will go to Sony's, because the promotion, the new branding for this event and all the rumours seem to imply this event is going to be kind of Sony's "E3", while the Nintendo Direct will probably be a more standard one, with a big focus on games that are releasing soon. In terms of surprises I doubt we're going to get more than 1 or 2, besides the Smash character.

The case is that Nintendo will still operate as usual, as any other company would do, if the Direct was indeed planned for this week.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Personally, I recall Bayo's inclusion being hype for people who weren't just deadset on K.Rool and nothing else.

I'm now sure where you got that impression.
There were supporters of many others, who saw Bayonetta was clearly not the winner.

Maybe she would have been hype if it weren't listed as the 'ballot pick,' but it is clear she was not; even Nintendo had to list she was 'one of the top five in one region, at a specific time,' to make it sound plausible.
Without question, it was overall more negative than positive. I think that counts as 'not hype,' overall, since all characters will bring hype to some crowd.

By this logic we could say Byleth was hype. Overall, this is just not true.

Yeah, you will see that is you didnt branch out your views. There was plenty of hype reactions

If 'my views' means watching youtube and being a regular on this forum, then no, I didn't.
But on this forum- yeah, Bayonetta was unquestionably received with irritation- not for the character, but for the ploy that she 'won.'

 

[subterrestrial]

bayo was added for promotion

 

[Deleted member]

So with it still being early September and all, I'm sure most of us are ready to move on from Speculation after all these years. With the last character potentially being revealed soon, most of us should have accepted the fact that not every series will be included to Smash by now. Some series sound like no brainers to be included while others sound like they don't at all, so with that in mind, what would be the most upsetting thing about a series you wanted in Smash not being in it at all?

Personally, Koei-Tecmo having a near 10 decade long partnership with Nintendo developing various games under their IPs while none of their own IPs have a Challenger Pack in Smash is pretty deflating as someone that likes a good portion of their games, especially when it comes to Dynasty Warriors because I've always been of the conscious that people overlook the series way too much in regards to DLC. For it to turn out Nintendo skipped over on Koei-Tecmo's IPs is a huge letdown for me especially with Byleth being included since KT developed that game. In a way, it's like Nintendo didn't see much in any of Koei-Tecmo's IPs for a Challenger Pack and decided to include the Fire Emblem game they developed instead, so I guess Ima just have to live with that til the next Smash game comes around.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Problem is? It's not a ploy. She did that well.

That doesn't mean the ballot was an influence on the choice.

These things can be exclusive.

Never mind it's a suggestion box, not a ballot to win. Multiple characters got into the game in Ultimate due to the ballot. So no, I don't see a remote problem with her placing high. It's Nintendo poorly wording it so it sounds like the Ballot influenced her being in, which, to be fair, may have happened, but it's hard to say due to the timing. Nobody else would've fit the timing or votes among Smash 4's DLC. So it was Bayo or nothing, but it's not like it was only for Smash 4. Nor did they say Smash 4's DLC would actually get a character from the ballot. They only said "we may put in a character as DLC that you vote for."

It's more of a stretch of it. Bayonetta did well. She was already chosen to begin with, from what the data we have. She may have only been in the proof of concept phase at that point too(which can have actual programming, but considering where she's listed, among other fully used fighters, that's very doubtful). If she was this, that means that the votes coming in would've shown Sega she's worth adding. If it's not, then it just means she was already a realizable fighter and they just worded it oddly to make it sound like Nintendo used the ballot here to determine whether she should be in or not.

However, it's more the case of "she was top [x] among realizable characters." Which isn't remotely incorrect. Realizable is a subjective phrasing that at most means "we had a way to make them playable". Many characters might've not been considered, or were too hard to make at the time. So it's not really a lie, we're just led to believe two things connect that were never connected due to poor phrasing. You never had two sentences near each other before that came out differently from what you were meaning? Yeah, didn't think so. We all word things differently from our intention cause we're prone to mistakes. They also probably couldn't actually make it clear why Bayonetta was actually chosen, nor could Sakurai, so they weren't really left with much of a choice. Everybody was expecting some kind of winner for Smash 4's DLC at that point. She was the only plausible choice at that point that would've worked. Cloud was under a silly belief he had no Nintendo appearances, so there's no way he would've gotten a massive amount of realistic votes. Corrin didn't exist much at all(especially worldwide). It was her or nothing.

 

[Speed Weed]

See I wasn't that big on Bayo when she was first revealed, but over time, I have come to realize that adding her was actually a very smart and totally-worth-it decision because we now have the After Burner theme in Smash thanks to her

 

[pupNapoleon]

It is interesting that so much of the non-veteran Smash 4 DLC really was a dry run for what'd see with Ultimate

-A new first party selection from a recent game with Corrin that would lead to Byleth, Min Min, & Pyra/Mythra
-Notable fighting game figure with unique mechanic with Ryu that paved the way for Terry, and Kazuya
-Honorary Nintendo character with Bayonetta that was a precursor to Banjo
-Gaming icon of understated or almost nonexistent history with Nintendo in Cloud that foreshadowed Joker and Sephiroth

Hero doesn't really fit in any of them and Steve only loosely in the fourth category, but one can see the genesis of Nintendo's thinking with Smash DLC to a point.

It's interesting to me that you call Joker a gaming icon, and then go on to say Hero is not one.

I also dont like P2Win and dislike grind fest F2P.

Many mobile games aren't any of that. Angry Birds isn't Gatcha, isn't P2Win, isn't a grindfest.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hero is a class, not a specific character. Erdrick isn't even known much worldwide, so it's pretty hard to call that one a gaming icon. The only one that might be decently known worldwide is Erdrick's descendant. On the other hand, Slime is easily a gaming icon. People know who it is. A lot. It's the DQ mascot for a reason(finding a DQ game without it is hard). But a mascot doesn't have to outright be a gaming icon either. They're mutually exclusive.

Joker is probably too lowkey to really fit that either.