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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Momotsuki

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Strange.
MK and DDD are characters Sakurai himself personally created, and judging by the new final smashes, it's not like he forgot about what they're about.
Perhaps Sakurai just... likes how he made them in Smash and prefers it over how he made them in Kirby.
To be fair, Kumazaki has never seemed all that sure of what he wants to do with Dedede. His Star Allies design/portrayal is definitely close, but it's juuuust short of really feeling "Dedede." I've always found his Smash incarnation to be perfect.

1630884140375.png
 
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chocolatejr9

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I sometimes like to think that Nintendo and sakurai were sat in a room when deciding on the pass and they just randomly said out loud “the punishment for leaking Ken is………. BYLETH!!!” And that’s how we ended up getting byleth.

it’s a random thought that I thought would be funny to share with people lol
I mean, if they're willing to punish Netflix for leaking the Zelda show, I wouldn't blame them for punishing Smash fans for leaking Ken...
 

N3ON

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You completely misinterpreted my post. People talking about him didn't make me want him less, it just would make me less excited for his reveal since he's talked about so much. It wouldn't be like "oh wow, they're adding Crash to the game" it would just be "Oh.. ok, this was a character everybody was predicting anyway" it would lessen the excitement and surprise factor that usually comes with a reveal.

Like, I wouldn't have been excited for Dante or Monster Hunter either just because of how predicted they are. If everybody said "Minecraft Steve is coming to the game" over and over again before he was revealed, I would have also been less excited for Steve. If I were to go into a movie, and people already told me what was going to happen in the movie loudly, over and over again while I was walking into the lobby, I would be less excited for it. Does that make sense?
If being presented with frequent discourse about the character lessens your reception to them in any way, I feel my post applies. If the difference between being excited and being unmoved is the existing conversation, I feel my post applies. It doesn't just have to be to their continued existence.

I don't agree with that last analogy. If Sakurai came and told me who was going to be added, yes that would take a bit of wind out of my sails for the reveal, because then I would empirically know. That's why I kinda resent leaks that happen immediately before the show. But people here, to my knowledge, aren't Sakurai. They can talk and talk and talk, and that doesn't actually bring their outcome any closer to reality than had they said nothing. Myself very much included. It's not an answer, it's a proposition, and that doesn't reveal content. It's certainly not a spoiler of what's to come, like someone divulging the entire synopsis of a movie.

Hearing people entertain a character doesn't ruin the reveal for me, because talking about and actually getting said character is a totally different experience.

I'll counter with a different analogy. If someone goes on and on about how much they want to eat a dish at a restaurant, about how they really want to order this thing, does that make the food taste worse when it arrives? If it does, maybe don't go dining with that person.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Strange.
MK and DDD are characters Sakurai himself personally created, and judging by the new final smashes, it's not like he forgot about what they're about.
Perhaps Sakurai just... likes how he made them in Smash and prefers it over how he made them in Kirby.
The thing is that the movesets that they ended up with do feel right visually, and they do a good job at portraying the character's personalities. It just doesn't feel good to play. I should note that King Dedede's moveset inspiration is mostly from his boss encounters, with Jet Hammer likely also taking a page from Hammer Flip in terms of mechanics (Jet Hammer was an actual move he used in Kirby Super Star Ultra). King Dedede does have a lot of made up attacks as well, but it was likely more purposeful.

The problem with him is that, I believe, he's supposed to be a mix between a heavy hitter, and a swordfighter style zoner, but with more emphasis on the former than the latter like with Ike. This means that he has big buttons, but they are too slow to actually give him an effective range, so his gameplan just became spam Waddle Dee Toss and Chain Grap people to death, and then because that was a pretty silly (and unintentional) gameplan, it then became just Gordos in the neutral, which is not that great an option. His win condition seems to be Gordo ledge traps, which is actually really good, but it's difficult for that to be successful when he has trouble winning neutral so he can put his opponents in a ledge trap situation.

I feel like the dynamic when fighting King Dedede should be that you have to respect his buttons, and then punish when he overextends since that's kind of how Kirby bosses work. I'm not entirely sure how you'd achieve that effect though. I feel like Meta Knight took this direction, but he ended up just being able to fly around everywhere and do what he wanted in the right hands, and now just seems...off. I think a swordsman that trades range for agility is a pretty decent angle for him, but I think he needs to be rethought at least a bit to pull that off. Also, none of his attacks feel particularly impactful, and I wonder if that's the sound design's fault. I love the Galaxia's unique sword swing sounds, but if they aren't selling the power behind them I think they might need to record better ones.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I barely remember how it was during the 4 days but I don’t think it ever got this bad, Final Presentation salt notwithstanding

like the biggest ****storm before then I remember was the whole Ridley deal
 

N3ON

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I barely remember how it was during the 4 days but I don’t think it ever got this bad, Final Presentation salt notwithstanding

like the biggest ****storm before then I remember was the whole Ridley deal
Past games protracted their beginnings, not their ends, and it's left people spinning their wheels and gradually facing deconfirmations more so than confirmations. That might result in a less explosive final backlash, but people are worn out.

That said, I think there were a couple times during Ultimate that have been worse than things are now. Leaker worship ft. Sabi, Genomania, Grinch Leak, Byleth fallout, Nintendo going silent last year. Now people are just a little cranky and need a rest rather than tempers running especially hot.
 

SKX31

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There will be a Direct this week but there will be no fighter reveal. We will get a date for a "Final Ultimate Presentation" which is where they'll reveal the character

The presentation will be in...

November
This thread, October 2021:

tumblr_p9angoQWLf1w49lylo1_500.jpg


In the Kirby series he's more flashed out, he can create tornado columns, launch shockwaves, block attacks and overall he feels faster and more agile compared to how he appears in Smash.
I'm not a fan of his multi hit smash attacks, he using kicks for part of his moveset, and I dislike that drill like move a lot.
Strange.
MK and DDD are characters Sakurai himself personally created, and judging by the new final smashes, it's not like he forgot about what they're about.
Perhaps Sakurai just... likes how he made them in Smash and prefers it over how he made them in Kirby.
I feel like the dynamic when fighting King Dedede should be that you have to respect his buttons, and then punish when he overextends since that's kind of how Kirby bosses work. I'm not entirely sure how you'd achieve that effect though. I feel like Meta Knight took this direction, but he ended up just being able to fly around everywhere and do what he wanted in the right hands, and now just seems...off. I think a swordsman that trades range for agility is a pretty decent angle for him, but I think he needs to be rethought at least a bit to pull that off. Also, none of his attacks feel particularly impactful, and I wonder if that's the sound design's fault. I love the Galaxia's unique sword swing sounds, but if they aren't selling the power behind them I think they might need to record better ones.
Thing is, Meta Knight's combination of agility and multi-jumps means that he has quite a few positives going for him out of the gate. Alongside the multiple jumps and lots of recovery mixups he's also able to chain and pressure with those very quick attacks of his. Even to the point where an opponent has to watch out for ladder combos (which oftentimes start from Dash Attack) or his Shuttle Loop / Mach Tornado just killing off the top. The ladders are very hard to pull off, but he doesn't lack options to pressure or set up traps of sorts. Down Tilt is a good example, since it can trip / lock at low % - while B-Air can drag-down opponents into the ground if one fast falls with it and thus set up another trap.

As a likely trade off, he does not have many attacks that linger (only his Specials do - those do put him at a helpless state if used in the air - and there's no shockwave or other projectiles) and he's kinda vurnerable once hit. It's also likely why his attacks are generally not that strong individually (except for F-Smash, and that has a very tight window) - Sakurai went all in on the "trade range for agility" aspect with him to emphasise his swordmanship. I don't get the impression that Sakurai meant to sell power with him - rather the fantasy of being this Zorro esque fencing master where skill is rewarded. Only with a short sword.

I don't mind Sakurai's implementation of him because of that - and while I wouldn't mind hearing ideas re: how to rework him if needed I do feel that those ideas would need to keep that combination of multi-jumps + agility in mind.
 
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Momotsuki

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The thing that gives me peace of mind is that this'll all be over soon.


Even worst case scenario where we don't get a Direct this week but next, we're nearing the end.


It's been 82 days since E3, and we're pretty on track for the average wait time between reveals.
I was fifteen when this started. I'm eighteen now. I know three years isn't that much in the grand scheme of things, but I am literally a different person through and through. The fact that this has been going on this long is kind of crazy to think about. I've enjoyed it a lot but... Damn, what a gauntlet it's been, haha.
 

DarthEnderX

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What about her gameplay? How would she translate to smash?
Into a Mii Gunner.

One character I'd love to see seems as people go on endlessly about Zelda representation is Ravio.
A 4th Link...great idea...real original...

Metroid would be a terrific cartoon.
Not while being true to the series it can't. So much of Metroid is about isolation and wordless exploration.

Only Genndy Tartakovsky could make that work.
 
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FreeFox

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I barely remember how it was during the 4 days but I don’t think it ever got this bad, Final Presentation salt notwithstanding

like the biggest ****storm before then I remember was the whole Ridley deal
If we are talking salt. Last reveals for base game were the ones that attracted the most salt. Partially because of the Grnich leak, partially because Kencineroar and Vergeben being proven right and finally because of plant. I dont expect the levels of salt reach that level. People are more carefully right now with expectations and it seems like there is also some level of burn out. I expect some salt but not to that level (unless the character is truly controversial.).
 
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Rie Sonomura

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who else been on the speculation hype train since brawl ?

crazy to think it might actually all end soon
I joined in Smash 4, Shulk was my most wanted and I was tracking Gematsu and I remember when “enjoy my good friend shulk” only for it to be Robin and Lucina. I registered an account that same day and ended up getting Shulk one month later
 

NessAtc.

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I'm still not really getting this.. So this pass is composed solely of characters who were planned before pass 1? Which is why we won't get characters more recent than Byleth? I'm puzzled..
Fire Emblem Three Houses was underway as of 2017 switch presentation, and in 2018 we got our first look at the game. The timing fit perfectly to make a plan for Byleth, where for a character like SMTV protag, or Astral Chain protag, etc. It doesn't line up nearly as well, which is given away by how we've "just so happened" to have gotten ARMS and Xeno 2 as our first parties (so far). Along with the spirit events, there's very little left to go with for first party, unless you consider the ballot, which is relevant at the time of DLC beginning, as Banjo was selected.

The absolute BEST character to choose to "shill" period would have been Travis Touchdown, as the 2017 switch presentation saw Travis Strikes Back's debut, and its release teased NMH3. However, that didn't happen, and honestly that's a pretty big giveaway right there.
 
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Shroob

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Fire Emblem Three Houses was underway as of 2017 switch presentation, and in 2018 we got our first look at the game. The timing fit perfectly to make a plan for Byleth, where for a character like SMTV protag, or Astral Chain protag, etc. It doesn't line up nearly as well, which is given away by how we've "just so happened" to have gotten ARMS and Xeno 2 as our first parties (so far). Along with the spirit events, there's very little left to go with for first party, unless you consider the ballot, which is relevant at the time of DLC beginning, as Banjo was selected.

The absolute BEST character to choose to "shill" period would have been Travis Touchdown, as the 2017 switch presentation saw Travis Strikes Back's debut, and its release teased NMH3. However, that didn't happen, and honestly that's a pretty big giveaway right there.
I'm not sure I follow your logic.

SMTV was part of the 2017 Switch Presentation.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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3 years. That's a fifth of my current lifespan, and throughout it all this game has been here the entire time (except the crawl that was Byleth - Min Min).

There's no way to put into words just how much Ultimate means to me.
I missed Smash 4 just because of how poor my family was, and for a long while getting a Switch was just another pipe dream.

This has been a crazy ride, and after all this time I only have one thing to say.

Thank GOD it's almost over! :4pacman:
 

FreeFox

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who else been on the speculation hype train since brawl ?

crazy to think it might actually all end soon
I joined during this smash iteration though I always checked around here to be up to date on smash news. The only reason I joined was to defend Incineroar. My frist post was an essay on why we might get a Pokemon and how it was a mistake to say it wasnt a possibility. So, you could say I joined because of him. :ultincineroar:
 

MBRedboy31

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who else been on the speculation hype train since brawl ?

crazy to think it might actually all end soon
I wasn’t on the hype train in the Brawl days due to the fact that Smash games at that time period were rated T and I wasn’t 13 yet, so there wasn’t much point paying attention to the news for a game that I wouldn’t be able to play anyway. I think I saw some reveals somewhere (in Nintendo Power, maybe?) but I didn’t really look at them much beyond “Oh, that’s neat.” due to that reason.
 

N3ON

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who else been on the speculation hype train since brawl ?

crazy to think it might actually all end soon
Yes, and it's been quite the ride, lots of ups and downs, lotta interesting people, but I'm glad to be at the point where I'm putting my tray table in its upright position, stowing my belongings back under the seat, and am almost ready to land and depart. :teeth:

3 years. That's a fifth of my current lifespan, and throughout it all this game has been here the entire time (except the crawl that was Byleth - Min Min).

There's no way to put into words just how much Ultimate means to me.
I missed Smash 4 just because of how poor my family was, and for a long while getting a Switch was just another pipe dream.

This has been a crazy ride, and after all this time I only have one thing to say.

Thank GOD it's almost over! :4pacman:
It's nice to know I made this account when you were two years old. Doesn't make me feel like a rickety old skeleton at all. :skull:
 

WahHahaha

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I find it funny how Waluigi is thrown into the thumbnail of any article that has anything even remotely to do with Smash just for clickbait.


1630895785763.png
 
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N3ON

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I maintain no hype cycle will be topped by the era of the DOJO being active daily, running the chance of getting a newcomer dropped on you out of nowhere.

And if not that, even just getting a veteran or stage was pretty sweet too. My glasses couldn't be tinted more rosy.
 

WahHahaha

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I maintain no hype cycle will be topped by the era of the DOJO being active daily, running the chance of getting a newcomer dropped on you out of nowhere.

And if not that, even just getting a veteran or stage was pretty sweet too. My glasses couldn't be tinted more rosy.

"Everyone is here" was definitely better. That or Pac Man's announcement in SSB4.
 

DarthEnderX

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While we'd love them to add N64 games to NSO, with Nintendo being Nintendo, Gameboy/Color honestly seems too fitting.
It also makes more sense.

Emulation takes a big leap in complexity(and game file size) once you get into 3d. So it's just obvious they'd do GB/GBC/GBA before N64.
 
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N3ON

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"Everyone is here" was definitely better. That or Pac Man's announcement in SSB4.
Everyone is here was basically the DOJO condensed from several months down to like five minutes. And that makes for a stellar show, and more shareable content, but I'll take the constant engagement and daily hype. Also Everyone is Here only had one newcomer.

But obv ultimately it's subjective.
 

Adrianette Bromide

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I was fifteen when this started. I'm eighteen now. I know three years isn't that much in the grand scheme of things, but I am literally a different person through and through. The fact that this has been going on this long is kind of crazy to think about. I've enjoyed it a lot but... Damn, what a gauntlet it's been, haha.
Lol that's wild. When Ultimate was announced, I was a sickly kid in the hospital for anxieties. Now I'm gonna learn French, coding, babysit for work and I attribute my success to Steve Minecraft getting into Smash.
 
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