Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

Assuming CP11 isn't an Assist upgrade, we're still gonna be having "Assist Trophies do/do not deconfirm" wars long after Ultimate ends.


And the sad thing is, unless Sakurai flat out says one way or another, there'll be no 'correct' answer.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Where has pupNapoleon been?

Sweet of you to ask!
I just havnt come on much lately.
I'm very blunt and stubborn with my opinions, which I find often incites unintentional anger, even warnings for me. And that gets tiring.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Assuming CP11 isn't an Assist upgrade, we're still gonna be having "Assist Trophies do/do not deconfirm" wars long after Ultimate ends.


And the sad thing is, unless Sakurai flat out says one way or another, there'll be no 'correct' answer.

I mean, the same could be said that if CP11 isn't a big third party, we're still gonna have "final reveals can/can't be huuuuuuge" debates.

 

[Shroob]

I mean, the same could be said that if CP11 isn't a big third party, we're still gonna have "final reveals can/can't be huuuuuuge" debates.

True, but the Assist wars get much more tooth and nail-y.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

So, apparently GB/GBC on NSO is now the worst kept secret in the industry.

NSO's 3 year anni is the 17th.


This or next week, I cannot in any way see Nintendo just shadow drop "Hey, Gameboy/Color games are coming to NSO!" on Twitter, means, IMO at least, we're guaranteed a Direct within the next 2 weeks.

Since it would make sense that they would reveal this in a Direct, they will really just announce it on Twitter, because it is Nintendo.

If ATs don’t become playable, it’s not because they’re already ATs.

Until we actually get an Assist Trophy as a playable character, we won't know if they don't become playable because they are already ATs and the team doesn't consider ATs as viable candidates for upgrade as DLC . That's the same thing with spirits before Min Min or spirit events, or Mii costumes as DLC.
The winning side will always be "it means nothing", because if it doesn't happen, you can resort to the fact it might happen in the future, if it does, you are right.
Basically if you try to make any form of logic, pattern or theory, you're considered as assuming things in Smash speculation, because you always meet the classic answer "You're assuming X prevents Y from happening but it just didn't happen yet so it's not a valid argument to believe Y cannot happen". How do you even reply to this?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I mean the quote was moreso in jest, but I personally believe that characters that become Assist Trophies will stay that way, at least in that current game. I'm all for upgrades between games (Little Mac, Isabelle, Dark Samus), but even in that Bomberman scenario, while a Mii Costume is better than nothing obviously, it's not quite the same as taking Waluigi and making him a full fledged character for a DLC release.

It’s fine to think that, personally I just don’t see “already an AT” and stuff like it to be the best arguments, since there are, imo, much better reasons they may not upgrade a character, like prioritizing others they think are needed more or something, although they could always reconsider one later whether to please fans or some other reason. While Bomberman just became a Mii, I still think it’s evidence they won’t write off reconsidering an AT at least for another role, and his mii killed one of the “no AT” arguments about how “players couldn’t tell them apart.”

Basically, my issue with most “no AT” arguments is that they seem to assume they won’t be added as fighters simply because they are already an AT or some other issue that could be solved with just some extra coding, despite other reasons that could prevent the characters from being playable, despite there being no true evidence that ATs disconfirm, and despite other games not preventing characters from taking multiple roles. Also since this DLC was planned after the basegame was done or at least close to done.

Of course, it is 100% fair to think they do disconfirm, it just sorta bugs me when people seem to try and shut others down with the argument and only that argument.

How do you even reply to this?

I mean, it’s technically true; fine to think that, but there’s not much basis for it as an argument so…

———

edit:

Tbh, I’m starting to think maybe what I’m saying isn’t relevant here. Maybe I’m mistaking what people mean when saying this stuff, maybe it’s just pointless to discuss any AT stuff in this thread. Although, you could say some AT characters have good points as fighters, but they tend to get denied in discussion just for the “already an AT” reason, which doesn’t help discussion when one doesn’t think that and wants to discuss other reasons for or against them, so…yeah, maybe pointless…

 

[Jondolio]

That last few pages got a few hearty laughs out of me. Thanks guys.

Anyway, I watched Delzethin's video, and I gotta say... I think he's putting too much stock in the "Smash has to end on a low note" logic, which is very uncharacteristic of the thought process he usually details in his videos. Then again, I'm the guy who will die on the hill that the final character is gonna be a Pokémon, but I could easily be wrong.

Delzethin's gotten a lot wrong with his predictions so I wouldn't put too much stock into one guy's thoughts on the matter.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That last few pages got a few hearty laughs out of me. Thanks guys.

Anyway, I watched Delzethin's video, and I gotta say... I think he's putting too much stock in the "Smash has to end on a low note" logic, which is very uncharacteristic of the thought process he usually details in his videos. Then again, I'm the guy who will die on the hill that the final character is gonna be a Pokémon, but I could easily be wrong.

Delzethin's gotten a lot wrong with his predictions so I wouldn't put too much stock into one guy's thoughts on the matter.

Frankly the video doesn't do anything out of the ordinary anyway, "Smash has to end on a low note" or not.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Basically, my issue with most “no AT” arguments is that they seem to assume they won’t be added as fighters simply because they are already an AT or some other issue that could be solved with just some extra coding, despite other reasons that could prevent the characters from being playable, despite there being no true evidence that ATs disconfirm, and despite other games not preventing characters from taking multiple roles.

Forget 'other games,' in this game- Chrom has more roles than actors in American Horror Story.
The Smash Team easily could have programmed anyone else in to Robin's FS- but did they? Nope.
It's a ridiculous argument, but logic isn't going to sway it.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I mean, it’s technically true; fine to think that, but there’s not much basis for it as an argument so…

You have previous examples to justify why a Mii costume or an AT can become playable from other things that were considered as impossible by the community.
A character appearing in a stage cannot become playable, yet we got both Toon Link in a background and as a playable character.
Chrom appearing in Robin's Final Smash prevents him from becoming playable, yet he did become playable.
A trophy in Smash for Wii U/3DS won't become playable, yet Lucas and Mewtwo got upgraded.
A spirit won't become playable, yet we got Min Min, Pyra and Mythra.
Porky is in the capsule yet he will also become playable.

In the case specifically of Waluigi, if he wasn't an Assist Trophy, you'd have much, much more support for the character. But him being an Assist Trophy is still an issue against him. That's what I think, and I believe a good amount of other people believe the same. That's legitimately the only, or at least main reason why Waluigi, Ashley, Isaac and the others are not considered likely anymore, and haven't since they were confirmed as ATs. Yet you cannot say it's certain until it happens, even if it takes ten Smash games.

On a similar note, Microsoft, Square Enix and Namco are also mostly dismissed because a good bunch of people believe that we cannot get two characters from the same company in the same pass. When the FP2 ends and if we really don't have another Microsoft, Square Enix or Namco, you will never say for sure it was due to the pass already having a Microsoft, Square Enix or Namco character.

I agree, it's ****ty that a character is immediately discarded just because he already is an AT. However if you do agree that being an AT means nothing, then you might as well say that no roles in this game matters, and that a boss, a spirit or virtually any videogame character can happen because until it happens you cannot say it won't happen. And any argument against or for a character would simply be personal feelings without any basis (seriously, what arguments are there against Waluigi except he is an AT without using anything from the game?)

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

 

[Shroob]

Forget 'other games,' in this game- Chrom has more roles than actors in American Horror Story.
The Smash Team easily could have programmed anyone else into Robin's FS- but did they? Nope.
It's a ridiculous argument, but logic isn't going to sway it.

Like I said above though, until we see it happen, or Sakurai say something in regards to it, neither side will be right or wrong.


We've seen them be extremely weird from both sides. Chrom not removed from Robin's final smash despite Chrom being playable, and yet for some reason Dedede and Ridley can't appear as 2d sprites on Brimstar/Dreamland when you pick them.



We'll never know what's right or wrong until either:

A) An upgrade happens in the same game(So no Mac/D.Samus/Isabelle situation where the upgrade happens a game later)

B) Sakurai gives a definitive statement irt ATs.

 

[Idon]

We are now currently at the phase where people are going "It's not the fact that they're ATs that deconfirms them, it's their outside factors!"

Look, being an Assist Trophy is not the cause for being disconfirmed.
It is the telltale symptom of being disconfirmed. The nail in the coffin, if you will.

Regardless of the myriad reasons for a character being made into an Assist Trophy instead of a character, at the end of the day, they're still inside that glass container. It is less than pointless to discuss the intricacies of why each and every single AT is unlikely to be made a character, especially when we literally may never know the dev's team actual reasonings. They're not making it in this game and that's a certainty I can bank on.

For God's sake, do we look at Marx and go "Hey, do you think Marx can still make it in as DLC?" Of course we don't. He's a boss. It's not the fact that he's a boss that made him deconfirmed, it was the reasons for why they made him a boss character to begin with that killed his chances as a playable character. I think the same reasoning naturally extends to assist trophies.

If we want to be technical, ATs do not kill a character's chances...
that's only because they're already dead.
That's the heart of the problem. It's not technical issues, or mixing players up, or any of that nonsense. It's that they're never going to get in this specific game to begin with.

Take it from a guy who has Zero as his profile picture and who has 5 of his most wanted characters trapped in that glass bubble and whose most wanted is a costume worn by a mannequin; the sooner we move onto the acceptance part of grief, the better.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Like I said above though, until we see it happen, or Sakurai say something in regards to it, neither side will be right or wrong.


We've seen them be extremely weird from both sides. Chrom not removed from Robin's final smash despite Chrom being playable, and yet for some reason Dedede and Ridley can't appear as 2d sprites on Brimstar/Dreamland when you pick them.



We'll never know what's right or wrong until either:

A) An upgrade happens in the same game(So no Mac/D.Samus/Isabelle situation where the upgrade happens a game later)

B) Sakurai gives a definitive statement irt ATs.

It's not a matter of it being 'right or wrong,' to me.
It's a matter that every single thing in the universe of Smash is doubted until it happens.
We consistently see those misgivings thrown away- almost every DLC character we have gotten in Ultimate breaks one of these ridiculous rules, and yet- there will always be one more. (No spirits, no Mii costumes, no characters from a repped third party series, no competing third party console developers, no characters from a game that already had a Mii costume, no multi-characters, no aesthetically different characters, no common-nameless enemies....etc.etc.etc.)

I could say we won't get a quadruped, or a Smash original character, or a pink character, simply because we havn't gotten one. That's about as similar as the argument that we cannot have an AT.

The premise of, 'not getting an AT,' is not based on anything said by Sakurai, though occasionally his words have been taken without context to make it seem true. The premise of not getting an AT is simply that, like with many characters seen by an individual (or even masses of individuals), it doesn't make sense in the way that they structure sensibility of Smash Bros.

I am not excluded from things that should or shouldn't make sense in my head- 'needing' more Fighting Game characters, 'needing' a Grass starter final form in the successive generation immediately following 6 and 7... but it doesn't make that personal fallacy any more true than a statement that suggests any other concept is excluded until it is included.

 

[Shroob]

It's not a matter of it being 'right or wrong,' to me.
It's a matter that every single thing in the universe of Smash is doubted until it happens.
We consistently see those misgivings thrown away- almost every DLC character we have gotten in Ultimate breaks one of these ridiculous rules, and yet- there will always be one more. (No spirits, no Mii costumes, no characters from a repped third party series, no competing third party console developers, no characters from a game that already had a Mii costume, no multi-characters, no aesthetically different characters, no common-nameless enemies....etc.etc.etc.)

I could say we won't get a quadruped, or a Smash original character, or a pink character, simply because we havn't gotten one. That's about as similar as the argument that we cannot have an AT.

The premise of, 'not getting an AT,' is not based on anything said by Sakurai, though occasionally his words have been taken without context to make it seem true. The premise of not getting an AT is simply that, like with many characters seen by an individual (or even masses of individuals), it doesn't make sense in the way that they structure sensibility of Smash Bros.

I am not excluded from things that should or shouldn't make sense in my head- 'needing' more Fighting Game characters, 'needing' a Grass starter final form in the successive generation immediately following 6 and 7... but it doesn't make that personal fallacy any more truly than a statement that suggests any other concept is excluded until it is included.

I mean, to you it may not be a matter of right or wrong, but considering how many people here constantly debate the issue, I'd wager it is for them.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I mean, to you it may not be a matter of right or wrong, but considering how many people here constantly debate the issue, I'd wager it is for them.

Common belief does not make something true or false. Fact makes it true or false.
#SchrodingersCat

 

[Shroob]

Common belief does not make something true or false. Fact makes it true or false.

And that fact is we'll never know one way or another.


For all we know, Sakurai could think Assists do serve enough purpose to represent a character

Or, Sakurai could not think that.


We don't know, and we'll never know unless the man himself says something.

 

[pupNapoleon]

It's true- we cannot know, and as new facts are presented to us, there becomes a publicly legitimate answer.

However, as it currently stands- it is this ambiguity of not knowing, that the sole conclusion becomes 'it is possible,' because it both could or could not be true. Without this assumption, any haphazard thought that happens to be correct by technicality, can be seen and verified as true. To otherwise claim that this specific example is the heir of all wisdom, that it is an undeniable fact- simply because it hasn't happened (despite an ENORMOUS list of things that havnt happened prior, having happened) is to say that any other arbitrary statement holds as much claim. There is no differentiating 'no ATs' from, 'no characters whose name starts with X.' By historical context, one is as untrue as the either- but unless all things that have not happened are considered falsified, there is no reason or merit to distinguish ATs as the mountain upon which to die.

Let's take an example. Is there any way in which we, to an extreme, could agree that Sakurai would possibly make an AT playable within the same game?
Let's say, Konami comes to Nintendo, and says they will not only fund the entire development, but also pay a surplus, to Nintendo------ if Nintendo will add Bomberman to Smash.
Is it universally possible that Nintendo and Sakurai will say yes to this? I'd say so.
If this is true, taken at the extreme, then being an AT cannot be a disconfirmation.
Substitute this example with any extremity of your choice.

Or, as I briefly stated in my message above- it is literally Schrodinger's cat-
Can ATs be playable?
It both is and isn't true
Therefore, on the table is the possibility of it being possible
And thus, it is possible

Unless someone wants to make a claim of being able to break through an infamous philosophical theory, I don't see any other conclusion to this conversation, as we can firmly rest on this precedent example- and if you can, submit your work for the Berggruen Prize (of philosophy), and win yourself $1million.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And that fact is we'll never know one way or another.


For all we know, Sakurai could think Assists do serve enough purpose to represent a character

Or, Sakurai could not think that.


We don't know, and we'll never know unless the man himself says something.

Let's be honest, that wouldn't stop people similar to what happened with Ridley, people would go from "That's a fan rule" to "Sakurai changed his mind on a lot of things"

 

[Shroob]

Let's be honest, that wouldn't stop people similar to what happened with Ridley, people would go from "That's a fan rule" to "Sakurai changed his mind on a lot of things"

I mean, with Ridley, we do know that Sakurai did find him too big, and took liberties with incorporating him into Smash.

I feel like people would take things straight from the horses mouth as basically gospel tbh. Look at how many times you'll see people respond to a debate with "Sakurai said"

 

[ryuryunonoroi]

Interesting piece of trivia here for everyone. Assuming no further spirit events between now and the release of CP11, CP11's fighter spirit will be the 200th spirit added to the base game.

I'm willing to take that risk. I'm the person who believes in ghosts thanks to Yu-Gi-Oh, and all of the cards I have (both in real life & in Duel Links) come to life at night and party in my room.

Oh, a fellow enthusiast towards the supernatural? Any paranormal occurences or encounters yet?

It's true- we cannot know, and as new facts are presented to us, there becomes a publicly legitimate answer.

However, as it currently stands- it is this ambiguity of not knowing, that the sole conclusion becomes 'it is possible,' because it both could or could not be true. Without this assumption, any haphazard thought that happens to be correct by technicality, can be seen and verified as true. To otherwise claim that this specific example is the heir of all wisdom, that it is an undeniable fact- simply because it hasn't happened (despite an ENORMOUS list of things that havnt happened prior, having happened) is to say that any other arbitrary statement holds as much claim. There is no differentiating 'no ATs' from, 'no characters whose name starts with X.' By historical context, one is as untrue as the either- but unless all things that have not happened are considered falsified, there is no reason or merit to distinguish ATs as the mountain upon which to die.

Let's take an example. Is there any way in which we, to an extreme, could agree that Sakurai would possibly make an AT playable within the same game?
Let's say, Konami comes to Nintendo, and says they will not only fund the entire development, but also pay a surplus, to Nintendo------ if Nintendo will add Bomberman to Smash.
Is it universally possible that Nintendo and Sakurai will say yes to this? I'd say so.
If this is true, taken at the extreme, then being an AT cannot be a disconfirmation.
Substitute this example with any extremity of your choice.

Or, as I briefly stated in my message above- it is literally Schrodinger's cat-
Can ATs be playable?
It both is and isn't true
Therefore, on the table is the possibility of it being possible
And thus, it is possible

Unless someone wants to make a claim of being able to break through an infamous philosophical theory, I don't see any other conclusion to this conversation, as we can firmly rest on this precedent example- and if you can, submit your work for the Berggruen Prize (of philosophy), and win yourself $1million.

Getting metaphorical with duality, are we? Boy, do I have the perfect posts for you: How a Smash leak can be both "real" and "fake" at the same time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, with Ridley, we do know that Sakurai did find him too big, and took liberties with incorporating him into Smash.

I feel like people would take things straight from the horses mouth as basically gospel tbh. Look at how many times you'll see people respond to a debate with "Sakurai said"

Yeah but that's only if they agree with it and again, Sakurai's changed his mind on stuff enough times to make people use that as evidence. Like, if Sakurai made his stance on ATs clear and said he'd never make one DLC, people wouldn't decide to stop asking for AT promotions as DLC for the next game if their favourites are ATs again and claiming it isn't impossible

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Yeah but that's only if they agree with it and again, Sakurai's changed his mind on stuff enough times to make people use that as evidence. Like, if Sakurai made his stance on ATs clear and said he'd never make one DLC, people wouldn't decide to stop asking for AT promotions as DLC for the next game if their favourites are ATs again and claiming it isn't impossible

Pretty certain that's exactly what is currently happening. Sakurai, when talking about Waluigi, stated that him being an Assist Trophy meant that he wouldn't be playable. The following game that's thrown out of the window for some people since Sakurai could once again change his mind.
Plus I'm certain there are still people doubting Sakurai's words about CP11 being the final fighter despite him saying this for a year.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm certain there are still people doubting Sakurai's words about CP11 being the final fighter despite him saying this for a year.

Nah nah, the reason for that is calling Sakurai a false profit who spreads fake news and propaganda

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Nah nah, the reason for that is calling Sakurai a false profit who spreads fake news and propaganda

Sakurai is not a real person, it's just a persona used to put the blame on someone. After all, anyone here has ever been to the same room as Sakurai?
He is a false profit but he really is profiting of our naivety.

 

[ryuryunonoroi]

There's a facet to a hypothetical playable Waluigi that doesn't seem to ever get talked about. What would his emblem be? If he had the typical Mario series emblem it would be rather jarring since Wario has his own separate logo and he's more important than Waluigi. But Waluigi has never appeared in any WarioWare game. As of yet, anyway.

Do they give him an original emblem? Revert Wario to the Mario series emblem and take away what makes him special? What else could they do?

Sakurai, when talking about Waluigi, stated that him being an Assist Trophy meant that he wouldn't be playable.

When was this? Any links to this information? If this is real it's my first encounter with this knowledge.

 

[Shroob]

There's a facet to a hypothetical playable Waluigi that doesn't seem to ever get talked about. What would his emblem be? If he had the typical Mario series emblem it would be rather jarring since Wario has his own separate logo and he's more important than Waluigi. But Waluigi has never appeared in any WarioWare game. As of yet, anyway.

Do they give him an original emblem? Revert Wario to the Mario series emblem and take away what makes him special? What else could they do?



When was this? Any links to this information? If this is real it's my first encounter with this knowledge.

It was the Smash 4 pic of the day that showed off Waluigi's assist.

The caption was like "Just because you try hard, doesn't mean you'll be playable!" or something.

 

[Jondolio]

Man, we really need that final character to be revealed already.

 

[Staarih]

There's a facet to a hypothetical playable Waluigi that doesn't seem to ever get talked about. What would his emblem be? If he had the typical Mario series emblem it would be rather jarring since Wario has his own separate logo and he's more important than Waluigi. But Waluigi has never appeared in any WarioWare game. As of yet, anyway.

Do they give him an original emblem? Revert Wario to the Mario series emblem and take away what makes him special? What else could they do?

I'm not really following how Wario affects Waluigi's emblem. Wario would obviously keep his WarioWare one while Waluigi would have the Mario emblem.

 

[N3ON]

I know this is a bone of contention for some, but I consider any statement released in a time of Smash where there was only a single phase of additions (base) to be outdated when concerning material that can now be reevaluated through DLC. And that extends to that statement about Waluigi/ATs.

Even if that is the mindset the dev team has, I would still consider that statement inadmissible evidence. It was made prior to DLC being part of Smash, so if you weren't playable in base, you weren't playable at all.

 

[ryuryunonoroi]

It was the Smash 4 pic of the day that showed off Waluigi's assist.

The caption was like "Just because you try hard, doesn't mean you'll be playable!" or something.

View attachment 329039

That long ago, huh? Though I still don't believe an Assist promotion is likely regardless. Not impossible, but it's a case of "I'll believe it when I see it."

I'm not really following how Wario affects Waluigi's emblem. Wario would obviously keep his WarioWare one while Waluigi would have the Mario emblem.

It would still be off putting to have Mario, Luigi, and Waluigi all under the same umbrella but have Wario left out of it. I don't see it as the primary reason why Waluigi isn't playable, but I'm sure it factors in.

 

[Shroob]

I just hope that the whole Monolith Soft thing bears fruit for a Direct next week.


I'm kinda apprehensive about it meaning anything, but there have been murmurs of a new Monolith game for awhile now.


I think a Direct could also come the following week since, NSO 3 year anni is that week, but at this point, the sooner the better, I'm ready to be done, or to at least be given a timeframe to expect when to be done.

 

[N3ON]

Well it's not like Waluigi would be ordered with the Mario characters on the roster, since that's now how they do things anymore. Same with the stages. Nor would his spirits be in the Mario section, since he's DLC. His music would go under the Mario section, but it'd be Mario spin-off music, so that checks out.

I struggle to think of how the classification would affect anything on a practical level. Sure it'd be strange that Wario and Waluigi had different icons, but it's not worth not getting Waluigi over. And I imagine the dev team would be of the same opinion, were they inclined to add him.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well it's not like Waluigi would be ordered with the Mario characters on the roster, since that's now how they do things anymore. Same with the stages. Nor would his spirits be in the Mario section, since he's DLC. His music would go under the Mario section, but it'd be Mario spin-off music, so that checks out.

I struggle to think of how the classification would affect anything on a practical level. Sure it'd be strange that Wario and Waluigi had different icons, but it's not worth not getting Waluigi over. And I imagine the dev team would be of the same opinion, were they inclined to add him.

I'm not convinced Waluigi WOULD have a different icon.
I wouldn't be if all things were as they are now- but given a new WarioWare coming out, focusing on dual player--- I'm in the mindset Waluigi might be the mainline duo partner.

 

[Dinoman96]

Considering Waluigi's AT has always been considered a Mario universe item and the fact that his only appearances have been through Mario spinoff games, I'd be inclined to believe he'd be considered a Mario character if he ever got in.

 

[pupNapoleon]

And for the record, if Birdo somehow made it in, I'm damned near sure she would also have an Egg as a symbol.
Perhaps the association Birdo has to Yoshi, and the association Waluigi has to Wario, enough warrants the symbol change.
On a surface level even, the Egg and the W both well represent the characters at hand.

We are also talking about multiple series that have characters of the same universe, who are often found intermingling. Hell, the Mushroom symbol technically means two separate categorizations of series; mainline, and 'other,' wherein 'other' constitutes several completely separate series, given completely separate sales charts, of completely separate genres (Kart, Party, Sports, RPG, etc). I think there is no real way to clearly 'categorize' many of the aspects of Smash into a perfect singular function, and often the lines end up getting blurred because it is simpler not to get overly organized.

I can also just pull up the argument against ATs, and say, "It's never been disproven to not be possible, therefore, it is true."

The real question to me would be- if Ryu Hayabusa got in, would he have changing symbols for DoA and NG, which change based on outfits?
I propose- yes.

_______
Above is proposed a serious conversation. What exactly does a symbol constitute? For many characters, it is a clearcut answer. Yet for others, not so much. Mario characters are listed on the website as representing Super Mario games- which aren't even the games with Mario that sell the best- Kart games are best selling. It also is a symbol used for other Mario series. Yet, Yoshi's given a completely different symbol. Wario is given a symbol that represents his second solo series, instead of his first, which initially was- similarly to Yoshi- just a sequel to a Mario game (Yoshi's Island and Warioland were both intitially subtitles to Mario games). Is Mario just a spinoff of Donkey Kong? Smash clearly states that they view Mario as having been created at the time of the Donkey Kong games in 1981. Donkey Kong itself isn't 'repping,' those original games, but instead country. But really- isn't he representing both? Certainly there are many people who know the arcade games, and not the Country games; the arcade games made more of a legacy mark in terms of video game history, and even Nintendo history. Are any of the Mario characters even truly from just a single series? Was Yoshi just given an egg symbol in the original game so that the starting 8 could all have different symbols?

 

[N3ON]

I'm not convinced Waluigi WOULD have a different icon.
I wouldn't be if all things were as they are now- but given a new WarioWare coming out, focusing on dual player--- I'm in the mindset Waluigi might be the mainline duo partner.

That game has already leaked and Waluigi isn't in it. Frankly if he was gonna be in it, I doubt they would've kept that hidden.

 

[pupNapoleon]

That game has already leaked and Waluigi isn't in it. Frankly if he was gonna be in it, I doubt they would've kept that hidden.

Ah- the beauty of not paying attention to leaks for a while.
Once again, stupid move, Nintendo.
Unless it's a DLC ploy to save a secret.
I doubt it.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Waluigi becoming prominent in anything feels like it won't happen until some of the old guard in Nintendo are less influential, and you have younger developers wanting to finally do something with him.

 

[N3ON]

Nintendo won't include Isaac in Smash to punish Camelot for creating Waluigi.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Funny to see how these "front-runners" are more unbelievable than the numerous honorable mentions and long-shots.

Like bro,
Sword n Shield missed the launch date and got spirited with no clear frontrunner pokemon and no, that doesn't mean we're getting Pokemon Trainer 2. That's never happening again.
Dragalia Lost is in its death bed, with its most watched recent videos not reaching FEH's least.
Zelda isn't so unreasonable until you realize his idea is a four-in-one champion fighter.

Actually a little crazy how adamant Delz is when it comes to Pokemon SwSh and BotW when nearly everything points to them missing the bus.

No? I watched the video sorta (just the part with the Champions) and his idea is a Champion, not necessarily the all-in-one package which he only mentions at the end as an unlikely possibility for the exact reason you mentioned. Plus, he did say that the Champions would be a contingency plan in case the planned character was a BoTW2 character but BoTW2 got delayed, so they reached back to the popular-on-their-own Champion group of characters as a plan B. It’s still a bit odd to rank that scenario as frontrunner and it scares me on how many chips he’s gonna put on either Spirited Away and Dead Game Walking, while very much reaching in the same way why an Arceus or BDSP character is unlikely.

Still, I admire him for making unpopular guesses and sticking with them, weird logic or not.