Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[LiveStudioAudience]

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Way to overshadow Fighter 11, Super Monkey Ball.

 

[Gengar84]

This is only if you look at it from the platformer characters' perspective.

You can also say that a Tales character would complete the three big JRPG series in Smash. Or a Virtua Fighter character would complete the classic fighting game characters' representation.

Yeah I agree with that but I’d argue that Mortal Kombat would probably be a better completion of the trio of huge fighting games than Virtua Fighter (unless you’re limiting it to just Japan).

 

[Aboyd]

I often wonder how much people know about programming if they think removing an AT is a great technical challenge. Let alone a technical challenge on par with creating Steve, and the en masse stage modification that accompanied him.

It's so much easier to remove an extraneous and inessential part of the game like an AT than build a character, even a simple one. Even an echo. Let alone one of the most complex so far.

It’s likely just a set of Booleans that they could set of a character is being played as, all are false

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Yeah I agree with that but I’d argue that Mortal Kombat would probably be a better completion of the trio of huge fighting games than Virtua Fighter (unless you’re limiting it to just Japan).

I think it’d be Mortal Kombat as well

The OG game is included as part of the World Video Game Hall of Fame alongside Street Fighter, and I also personally find it to be more iconic character wise, and even catchphrase and music wise. One video of The main theme song has over 100M views on YouTube, and I can’t personally name anyone who doesn’t recognize “GET OVER HERE!”

 

[DarthEnderX]

But yeah, I'm very much in the "Can we just get this over with already?" boat, lol.

Not me! Give me a new character every 3 months, until Smash 6 comes out!

 

[Gengar84]

I think it’d be Mortal Kombat as well

The OG game is included as part of the World Video Game Hall of Fame alongside Street Fighter, and I also personally find it to be more iconic character wise, and even catchphrase and music wise. One video of The main theme song has over 100M views on YouTube, and I can’t personally name anyone who doesn’t recognize “GET OVER HERE!”

The one issue with Mortal Kombat’s music is that the only songs I can remember off the top of my head actually come from the movie. Both Techno Syndrome and the battle with Goro are very memorable. I would say that the in game music of Street Fighter is probably the most iconic of any fighting game.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Mortal Kombat is an fascinating case of the franchise managing to enter popular culture so successfully that its maintained a strong presence despite lesser consistency and less interest by the competitive gaming crowd in comparison to Street Fighter.

 

[Garteam]

Monolith Soft’s site undergoing server maintenance on 8th September leading to speculation about new Xenoblade and Nintendo Direct

Monolith Soft, the acclaimed JRPG studio behind the Xenoblade Chronicles series, have announced that their official website will be experiencing server maintenance which will happen on Wednesday…

mynintendonews.com

It seems the 8th could be our date if this server maintenance is to add new Monolith Soft content revealed in a direct.

Alternatively, this is just scheduled maintenance, but it adds up nicely with Nintendo's preference for early September directs, their desire to give Warioware one last push, and the current rumours relating to things like Game Boy on NSO.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Way to overshadow Fighter 11, Super Monkey Ball.

Welp, time for me to get this game

 

[Gengar84]

Mortal Kombat is an fascinating case of the franchise managing to enter popular culture so successfully that its maintained a strong presence despite lesser sales and less interest by the competitive gaming crowd in comparison to Street Fighter.

If my memory is correct, Mortal Kombat is the highest selling fighting game franchise of all time. I read somewhere that it recently surpassed Smash but I never really confirmed that myself.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The one issue with Mortal Kombat’s music is that the only songs I can remember off the top of my head actually come from the movie. Both Techno Syndrome and the battle with Goro are very memorable.

You sir, are forgetting the greatest MK song of all time!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Dinoman96]

Mortal Kombat is in this weird grey area where it's the most popular fighting game IP (outside of Smash obv) but it will almost certainly never get a fighter in Smash due to its status in Japan.

 

[Gengar84]

You sir, are forgetting the greatest MK song of all time!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Isn’t Sub-Zero Japanese though? I think that song is lying to me. It’s like the Turtle Power rap song at the end of the first TMNT movie that claims that Raphael is the leader of the crew when it’s really Leonardo.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well next week is supposedly is then.

 

[Staarih]

Monolith Soft’s site undergoing server maintenance on 8th September leading to speculation about new Xenoblade and Nintendo Direct

Monolith Soft, the acclaimed JRPG studio behind the Xenoblade Chronicles series, have announced that their official website will be experiencing server maintenance which will happen on Wednesday…

mynintendonews.com

It seems the 8th could be our date if this server maintenance is to add new Monolith Soft content revealed in a direct.

Alternatively, this is just scheduled maintenance, but it adds up nicely with Nintendo's preference for early September directs, their desire to give Warioware one last push, and the current rumours relating to things like Game Boy on NSO.

With Xenoblade 3 rumored to be in the works, that would be a pretty good Direct closer.

Also, Project Triangle Strategy is part of Square's Tokyo Game Show lineup (which begins Sept 30th), seems likely that the game would first be shown in a Direct (being Nintendo-published in the west) and then shown off at TGS with known info. We have the whole month before that, of course, but it does give more credence to a Direct happening this month... which is what everyone expects anyway lol.

Buut no announcement today at least.

 

[SNEKeater]

Yeah I agree with that but I’d argue that Mortal Kombat would probably be a better completion of the trio of huge fighting games than Virtua Fighter (unless you’re limiting it to just Japan).

Tbh this reinforces what osby said IMO.
Some people will consider MK to be the last FGC series that Smash needs to feel complete in that genre. But some will think it's Virtua Fighter, others will prefer Guilty Gear, and so on.
Same with other genres such as JRPGs, of course.

This shows that there's hardly any chance to have a definitive representation of a genre in Smash. You can't really say "if we had X then X genre would be complete", because each series, bigger or smaller, has brought something to the table and has it's own legacy.

And let's be honest, bias also plays a big part here. People say that if we had Crash platformers would feel complete in Smash, but do you think Spyro or Rayman fans would agree?
I like Tales but if we had a Tales character in Smash I wouldn't dare to say "we got Tales, we don't need more JRPGs" when there are still series such as SMT, Kingdom Hearts, Ys or Trails out there.

 

[SKX31]

So we could have brawl mk back? He'd prolly still wipe the floor with literally every other character from every game so....

Sure!

If nothing else, one could make a gauntlet of a Classic Mode featuring some borked past characters. While they'd be potentially infuriating if the AI can pull the various tricks off, they'd nevertheless be an interesting way to add an extremely challenging Classic mode (as a compensating factor they could be easier to KO than normal since all rounds would be vs. 2 opponents, but still):

Spoiler: Classic route on Intense difficulty

Round 1: 64. and . The 64 characters have some really obscene hitstun, the ability to just massacre shields and have silly confirms like jab grabs (which even 64 CPUs use). Oh and both have some absurd hitboxes like both their up tilts:

Sure, the saving grace is that they won't have as many moves, dodges etc. as their later counterparts, but one hit and you'll likely to take like 80 %.

Round 2: Brawl part 1. and . Ah yes, the time when Olimar had 6 Pikmin and Diddy had 2 peels (incl. an infinite off of the peels). Not only are those two hard to hit generally, but momentum cancelling allows them to survive a lot longer than expected and Diddy has the best shield in Brawl. Diddy can also glide toss the peels while Olimar's Pikmin Order has some very generous super armor in Brawl. There's some solace with them tripping, but they're going to be a hassle.

Round 3: Smash 4... but with Custom Moves. and . Why these two? Well, Villager with custom moves has access to Timber Counter, a long lasting sapling that trips constantly, plus bigger Lloid Rockets and exploding balloons. He's a major hassle to even deal with. DK with custom moves turns into Aang, with Airbender versions of Giant Punch and Up B + Firebender version of Down B. All three of those can kill earlier than normal - oh and did I mention that Smash 4's Rage mechanic straight up is overpowered?

Round 4: Maylay. and . No real need for introductions to either of them, TerminalMontage solidified the memetic image of them dashdancing all over the ****ing place and Marth's infamous grab range. Also, they have access to shield dropping through platforms and edgecancelling off of them, making them difficult to challenge on platforms.

Round 5: Smash 4 part 2. and . No real need to introduce 4's Bayonetta, but a less talked about aspect of hers is that most of her aerials could kill much sooner than her Ultimate counterparts. Cloud's 4 counterpart not only had a huge N-Air, but oprresive U-Air / D-Air and permanent Limit Break (until he uses it or dies). They're going to be extremely difficult to challenge.

Round 6 (Final Bosses): Brawl part 2. Oh ****. and . Brawl Meta Knight is legendary and with good reason. The TV tropes page for game breaker lists no less than 8 absurdly strong and spammable attacks (he's listed as a Game Breaker in Subspace, Multi Man and Boss Fights too!). Not to mention the ability to stall if needed with how safe his attacks generally are. Brawl ICies is the definition of chainthrowing - with their version being infinite - and they're able to wall people out consistently with a powerful Blizzard / Ice Shot.

Have fun.

Mortal Kombat is an fascinating case of the franchise managing to enter popular culture so successfully that its maintained a strong presence despite lesser sales and less interest by the competitive gaming crowd in comparison to Street Fighter.

If my memory is correct, Mortal Kombat is the highest selling fighting game franchise of all time. I read somewhere that it recently surpassed Smash but I never really confirmed that myself.

It is the best selling franchise even topping Smash Bros. by a 7 million margin. Sure, MK has many more installments, but MKX / MK11 have not been slouches when it comes to selling either. Them being able to pull in guests that thematically fit with MK's particular style helps a lot - specifically horror / action movie characters that would have no issue doing Fatalities. The MK team have also put in quite a lot of effort into the various modes (such as a well-recieved story mode IIRC) which helps a lot.

 

[Momotsuki]

I think it'd be cute, if say, at some point in, IDK, mid-late 2022 an echo fighter was just shadow-dropped. No announcement, no trailer, you wake up one morning, there's a software update, and boom, Octoling or somethin'. It's not something that will happen but I think it'd be cool.

 

[Eldrake]

The melee character stuff makes me think about how I've wanted to see a Fighter Style system where select characters gets styles that changes their moveset and, optionally, models with small but noticeable differences to help distinguish them from other styles. Hypothetically it'd be a way to get melee movesets, but it'd also be a way to get a magic-focused Ganondorf without sacrificing Punchdorf.

 

[Ivander]

Isn’t Sub-Zero Japanese though?

Sub-Zero is Chinese while Scorpion is Japanese IIRC.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Isn’t Sub-Zero Japanese though?

No. Scorpion is Japanese. Sub-Zero is Chinese.

 

[DanganZilla5]

I'm not sure if anyone brought this up but Monolithsoft posted new art on their website.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Pyra and Rex are so cute together. We better get a scene like this in the next Xenoblade game, you hear me Monolithsoft?

 

[Gengar84]

Sub-Zero is Chinese while Scorpion is Japanese IIRC.

Yeah, you might be right. I never knew much about the lore of MK. I knew Sub-Zero isn’t technically a ninja but I always assumed they were both Japanese because they both have very ninja inspired designs.

What else have I been wrong about this whole time? Was Turtle Power right all along and Raphael is actually the leader of the crew (transformed from the norm by the nuclear goo) lol?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Everyone, what would your reaction be if instead of Mii costumes, we got Melee versions of the first 26 characters that appeared in Melee? They would play exactly the same as they would in Melee with L-Cancelling, wavedashes, the physics would be exactly the same, their stats would be left untouched, Fox and Falco can multishine, etc. I don't expect the answers to be too positive but I could be wrong.

I got the idea when I was looking at Hyper Street Fighter II: Anniversary edition where you can play as old versions of Ryu or Guile. You could take it a step further and add 64 versions of the original 12 or Brawl versions or whatever. I don't know.

It should be pointed out though that Hyper Street Fighter II: Anniversary Edition also has, like, the worst game balance of any version of SF2, for that exact reason. All those versions aren't designed to be played against each other.

I doubt throwing a bunch of Melee characters into Ultimate would have a better result. It would destroy the game's balance.

 

[Gengar84]

It should be pointed out though that Hyper Street Fighter II: Anniversary Edition also has, like, the worst game balance of any version of SF2, for that exact reason. All those versions aren't designed to be played against each other.

I doubt throwing a bunch of Melee characters into Ultimate would have a better result. It would destroy the game's balance.

I think it could be a fun idea for a casual offline mode though. Kind of like custom moves and stickers.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

64 versions of the OG12 would be fun. Not trying to exactly replicate the formula and engine and all that jazz but at least as a visual change with some moves changed to reflect their 64 counterparts would be very cute.

 

[Gengar84]

On the subject of old versions of characters, I’d love to see Bowser’s Melee moveset brought back as a Dry Bowser echo. He could be buffed to keep him balanced with current Bowser but keep his general old moveset and feel in tact.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

On the subject of old versions of characters, I’d love to see Bowser’s Melee moveset brought back as a Dry Bowser echo. He could be buffed to keep him balanced with current Bowser but keep his general old moveset and feel in tact.

In a similar vein, Daisy would be great with Melee Peach’s moves.

 

[Dinoman96]

Isn't it sad how Daisy exists in Smash as just an extra set of alt costumes for Peach with different idle/running/taunt/victory animations

Even Richter, Dark Pit, Dark Samus, etc have at least one notable gameplay difference from their base counterparts.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So what do you guys think chances are for next week? Or do you think it'll be the week after? That's the latest I can see.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So what do you guys think chances are for next week? Or do you think it'll be the week after? That's the latest I can see.

Betting on September 8 cause that’s when the Monolith site will undergo maintenance

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Betting on September 8 cause that’s when the Monolith site will undergo maintenance

Just curious but what would the Monolith site going under maintenance has to do with a direct happening?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Just curious but what would the Monolith site going under maintenance has to do with a direct happening?

Announcement of a new Monolith project + after the direct they add that project to their site I guess

 

[DanganZilla5]

Just curious but what would the Monolith site going under maintenance has to do with a direct happening?

That implies that there will probably be a new Xenoblade game announced in the Direct.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Announcement of a new Monolith project + after the direct they add that project to their site I guess

That implies that there will probably be a new Xenoblade game announced in the Direct.

Gotcha.

 

[FreeFox]

Lets see what has happened since last time I was here.

More Wah discussion. Skip
Master Chief discussion? Cool! Wait, its not that kind of discussion.....
Super Monkey Ball and more Xenoblade discussion! Count me in!

So far, I have been impressed by monkey Ball reveals. 10/10

As for Xenoblade, I wouldnt mind seeing a continuation of either story. Just give me something new to enjoy!

 

[Ivander]

Isn't it sad how Daisy exists in Smash as just an extra set of alt costumes for Peach with different idle/running/taunt/victory animations

Even Richter, Dark Pit, Dark Samus, etc have at least one notable gameplay difference from their base counterparts.

I mean, Richter's only "gameplay" difference is just the Holy Water being an "Aura" effect compared to Simon's "Flame" effect. But it's mainly a cosmetic difference and functions exactly the exact same as Simons. So Richter and Simon have no actual differences in regards to gameplay.

And let's be honest, if Richter were to have any gameplay difference with his Holy Water, it would've been the flame/aura effect moving forward, but it doesn't do that in Smash.

 

[Dukefire]

I can speculate that Nintendo may get the crowd ready with a Sakurai Presents video announcement on the Final Challenger. Like how Byleth's presentation played out when we didn't know FP1 last challenger yet. Though, it may end into another Byleth situation depending on the hype of certain characters.

 

[Dinoman96]

I can speculate that Nintendo may get the crowd ready with a Sakurai Presents video announcement on the Final Challenger. Like how Byleth's presentation played out when we didn't know FP1 last challenger yet. Though, it may end into another Byleth situation depending on the hype of certain characters.

I just don't really see the point of this when they have a big Direct coming up where they can reveal the final fighter there.

Keep in mind, the only time for Ultimate were we had standalone character reveal steams were for Byleth, Min Min and Steve...but those were because obviously there weren't any Nintendo Directs they could be revealed at in the timeframe those characters came out. Min Min and Steve would of just been revealed at E3 and the Fall Direct respectively had those been actual things in 2020.

 

[Dukefire]

I just don't really see the point of this when they have a big Direct coming up where they can reveal the final fighter there.

Keep in mind, the only time for Ultimate were we had standalone character reveal steams were for Byleth, Min Min and Steve...but those were because obviously there weren't any Nintendo Directs they could be revealed at in the timeframe those characters came out. Min Min and Steve would of just been revealed at E3 and the Fall Direct respectively had those been actual things in 2020.

yeah, I guess you're right. Smash Ultimate and its hype is almost over, so why not get it over with. I will understand that if Nintendo and Sakurai didn't present the character for the next direct, then there are a lot of surprises that made Ultimate's info saved for a later date this year.