Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

I mean, it's comparing a Nintendo game to a 3rd Party game. Sakurai can at least get access to the Nintendo stuff compared to the 3rd Party stuff. And last time I checked, Greninja and Incineroar were still in concept art when they were picked.

But if BotW gets a character, I'm positive it would be mainly to represent Breath of the Wild and it's success, much like Splatoon, ARMS, Xenoblade 2, etc, with advertising BotW2 being a bonus.

Thing is though, we don't even know when BotW comes out. Could be next year, could be 2023, that seems hella risky to go off concept art with considering the game's release date is still TBD.


That, and I just don't see a reality where they do put a BotW2 rep in with how secretive they've been in regards to the game. They gave us what, 30 seconds last E3? And we know even less than we did before due to how bizarre everything was?

 

[Trevenant]

My biggest question is: Why Paya? All she does is just stand in a single location and act all shy (unless I missed her sidequest, which is likely, but that also probably means it's hard to find). That doesn't really scream "important character" to me, even hypothetically as the plot advances.

If anything, I'd put my money on the Champions's successors, or Kass.

Yeah, she directly interacts with Impa as they are related, who herself is an important character, which is certainly more than pretty much every other BoTW NPC but she is still very much an NPC, not only technically, but quite literally. The only actual angle Paya has is if we had some form of Impa pre-BOTW and AoC and they didn't want to choose one specific champion and didn't want Kass because of the Rito angle, even if he is probably the NPC with the most depth outside of Kilton and Paya if we account for her association with Impa. Even if all those circumstances somehow all fell into place, as she is a random NPC, there would still be no guarantee she would even get picked. The joke angle is honestly all she has going for her, but since there are so many, they'd probably pick a name out of a hat to decide on a character who would be fighting for a joke characters spot, which means it would be entirely random if Paya got picked at all lol

 

[Shroob]

MasterCheef buys into the Rapper Mario leak as he has said in the past, even though most believe that leak is fake, which is why he has his chips on Paya.

What if I told you that depending on who the final character is, there's a good chance that leak is both real and fake at the same time? How is that even possible you might ask? I'll break it down after CP11's reveal is done and over with, since I'm suspecting that CP11's origins are from a certain cluster, and this wouldn't really fit as well if this isn't the case.

I don't buy Rapper Mario for a second, especially since it can't even keep its story straight.


"I'm going to be vague to protect my source."


"Also I'm gonna drop a TON of extremely specific info and act like I've seen the final Sakurai Presents already."

 

[Theguy123]

Thing is though, we don't even know when BotW comes out. Could be next year, could be 2023, that seems hella risky to go off concept art with considering the game's release date is still TBD.

If I had to guess, Their quote “we’re aiming for a 2022 release date” made it sound like BOTW 2 was gonna be late 2022 or possibly early 2023 if they experience any sort of delay. That’s just what I took from the quote though.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...didn't want Kass because of the Rito angle...

Why would they not want a Rito?

 

[Trevenant]

Why would they not want a Rito?

For the same reason they might not want to pick a specific champion aside from the typical Hylians, which are already represented save for the obligatory mention of Botw Zelda, even if that is also a long shot. It's weak I admit, but so is any case that can be applied to Paya imo. Kass definitely has way more of a shot and he isn't happening himself tbh lol

 

[Shroob]

Hot as **** take.


We don't know when the "Mr.Sakurai presents: Kazuya!" was filmed, but something tells me that if it had been filmed pre E3, then we wouldn't have had to get that little blurb with Sakurai going "We haven't filmed it yet!"


Isn't that literally enough to bury Rapper Mario? Since it quite clearly alluded to the CP11 presentation being done and filmed already in January iirc?

 

[ryuryunonoroi]

I don't buy Rapper Mario for a second, especially since it can't even keep its story straight.


"I'm going to be vague to protect my source."


"Also I'm gonna drop a TON of extremely specific info and act like I've seen the final Sakurai Presents already."

I don't buy into the leak being true either, but there is a very good reason some do, and it's not simply because of the fact that it's gotten some things right so far.

 

[Shroob]

I don't buy into the leak being true either, but there is a very good reason some do, and it's not simply because of the fact that it's gotten some things right so far.

And those things are.... what?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

For the same reason they might not want to pick a specific champion aside from the typical Hylians, which are already represented save for the obligatory mention of Botw Zelda, even if that is also a long shot.

I dunno. I don't think the races in Hyrule are a packaged deal like the champions are (and if they are well, we already have a Gerudo). I don't see them avoiding picking a specific race because they can't include all the major ones from a game.

 

[BlondeLombax]

My biggest question is: Why Paya? All she does is just stand in a single location and act all shy (unless I missed her sidequest, which is likely, but that also probably means it's hard to find). That doesn't really scream "important character" to me, even hypothetically as the plot advances.

If anything, I'd put my money on the Champions's successors, or Kass.

My best guess is that at this point, we’re so starved for any form of leads, real or fake, that we’ve just resorted to thinking of non-active side characters. It’ll boil over when FP11 gets a premiere date.

 

[Trevenant]

I dunno. I don't think the races in Hyrule are a packaged deal like the champions are (and if they are well, we already have a Gerudo). I don't see them avoiding picking a specific race because they can't include all the major ones from a game.

BoTW has made sure not to put any real race before the other, but if we're viewing it from the entire series then yeah I agree. I imagine it would probably be a minor issue the Zelda devs bring up since they went really hardcore on the player freedom aspect and to let them do as they see fit, but it probably wouldn't be too large an issue now that I'm thinking about it. If we're talking a single race from the perspective of the entire series that are in BoTW that isn't a Gerudo that seems best fit to be represented, then it's between Zora and Goron imo.

Ganondorf is a triforce wielder but I'll not go deep into that so as to not open that can of worms.

My best guess is that at this point, we’re so starved for any form of leads, real or fake, that we’ve just resorted to thinking of non-active side characters. It’ll boil over when FP11 gets a premiere date.

TBH I recall worst droughts and never ever recall anyone legitimately suggesting literal NPCS save for jokes. Youngster Joey would be nice tho

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I mean if not putting a race over the other was important, we wouldn't have gotten Greninja and Incineroar.

 

[MasterCheef]

it should crack 15 mil at least which, no matter how you slice it doesn't really warrant a shill to begin with.

You misunderstand. i don't think BOTW sequel needs a shill SSBU playable fighter. I think the opportunity and timing were too big for Nintendo to pass on.

Thing is though, we don't even know when BotW comes out. Could be next year, could be 2023, that seems hella risky to go off concept art with considering the game's release date is still TBD.

Nintendo's Financials came out for BOTW sequel as TBD 2022

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

You misunderstand. i don''t think BOTW sequel needs a shill SSBU playable fighter spot. I think the opportunity and timing were too big for Nintendo to pass on.

Tbf BOTW2 is guaranteed to sell well and its release definitely isn’t before CP11 so if Nintendo was hellbent on a shillpick something like SMTV or Metroid Dread or something else might be more appealing to them.

 

[Shroob]

You misunderstand. i don't think BOTW sequel needs a shill SSBU playable fighter. I think the opportunity and timing were too big for Nintendo to pass on.




Nintendo's Financials came out for BOTW sequel as TBD 2022

Yeah, TBD. That's business talk for "We're planning for it, but we can't say if it will happen."

 

[Trevenant]

You misunderstand. i don''t think BOTW sequel needs a shill SSBU playable fighter. I think the opportunity and timing were too big for Nintendo to pass on.



Nintendo's Financials came out for BOTW sequel as TBD 2022

Huh? Like BoTW2 will bring a new audience to smash? I don't really get what you mean. As you say opportunity and timing, that still suggests shill. And since Smash already has BoTW content, I don't think the inverse angle of BoTW2 bringing new people in will work too well either.

 

[ryuryunonoroi]

And those things are.... what?

• CP9 (Pyra/Mythra) being popular in both the east and west, but not "break the internet" popular and there would still be haters.
• CP10 (Kazuya) being from a third party most people believed would get more representation.
• Both Dante and Monster Hunter being Mii costumes.

The leak isn't going to get anything else right in the future, though. That's by design, and if you stop and take a minute to put 2 and 2 together, it should be fairly obvious why that is.

 

[MasterCheef]

Tbf BOTW2 is guaranteed to sell well and its release almost definitely isn’t before CP11 so if Nintendo was hellbent on a shillpick something like SMTV or Metroid Dread or something else might be more appealing to them.

I would definitely be down for Chozo Warrior being a possibility.

Huh? Like BoTW2 will bring a new audience to smash? I don't really get what you mean. As you say opportunity and timing, that still suggests shill. And since Smash already has BoTW content, I don't think the inverse angle of BoTW2 bringing new people in will work too well either.

No i am not suggesting they are looking to bring in new clients with the pick. I am suggesting that Paya would have been their top shill pick as a bonus rep.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

• CP9 (Pyra/Mythra) being popular in both the east and west, but not "break the internet" popular and there would still be haters.
• CP10 (Kazuya) being from a third party most people believed would get more representation.
• Both Dante and Monster Hunter being Mii costumes.

The leak isn't going to get anything else right in the future, though. That's by design, and if you stop and take a minute to put 2 and 2 together, it should be fairly obvious why that is.

Maybe the guy just got lucky with his guesses

also the “third party people believed would get more representation” was in the base game. Unless you count Heihachi’s sprite in ’s roulette taunt, the first piece of pre-Kazuya Tekken content was the returning Heihachi Mii in Min Min’s wave. I think that was more alluding to Sephiroth and FFVII and if so, they’re kinda Slowpoke-y about it

 

[Trevenant]

I would definitely be down for Chozo Warrior being a possibility.



No i am not suggesting they are looking to bring in new clients with the pick. I am suggesting that Paya would have been their top shill pick as a bonus rep.

A shill is made to bring new clients in though. That is the largest factor for a shill inclusion, Promotion would probably be a better way to put it. Even if a bonus was likely, that doesn't really change much here tbh

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean if not putting a race over the other was important, we wouldn't have gotten Greninja and Incineroar.

Yes we would've.

Greninja was chosen because Sakurai found it the most interesting. Greninja also got a form that no other starter did. Charizard also towers over Blastoise and Venusaur by far. Reality is one starter very often towers over another thanks to the anime and movies(and even without that, the popularity polls show they aren't actual equals. It varies so much what is pushed that they don't really treat them as equals beyond the initial advertising of the starters. Which changes fast anyway). Incineroar also had a much bigger role than the other two final forms in the anime as well. In addition, Sakurai has constantly tried to find a new Pokemon to add in per Smash game. Nintendo also doesn't have the final say here because they only own a part of the Pokemon IP overall(they partially do, but it's them, Gamefreak, and Creatures Inc). And yet Sakurai has gotten a ton of Pokemon stuff, which says a lot.

The Champions are hard equals. Nintendo keeps pushing them as the same thing. There's zero emphasis on any race being consistently playable outside of a Hylian at best(in the mainline series. They aren't the ones programming Hyrule Warriors and at most say "yes" to not a non-canon series), and they don't really play favorites with the other races.

The situations are completely unalike. Basically pure apples to oranges. Even if you don't include the factor of Sakurai, we already see that a specific starter is quite often pushed over another, something you don't get with the Zelda series for generic members of the race. There's a few notable members of any race, sure, but they generally pale importance outside of Ganon/dorf, Link, and Zelda. Impa is the closest one(other than Tingle) to be an actual pretty big character among the typical races, and we don't even know what some final bosses like Vaati fully are(he's a Minish, but that's only one form. Is he really a Nightmare? Who knows). Never mind what Fi, Ghirahim, and Demise are supposed to exactly be. And so on.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Yes we would've.

Greninja was chosen because Sakurai found it the most interesting. Greninja also got a form than no other starter did. Charizard also towers over Blastoise and Venusaur by far. Reality is one starter very often towers over another thanks to the anime and movies. Incineroar also had a much bigger role than the other two final forms in the anime as well. In addition, Sakurai has constantly tried to find a new Pokemon to add in per Smash game. Nintendo also doesn't have the final say here because they only own a part of the Pokemon IP overall. And yet Sakurai has gotten a ton of Pokemon stuff, which says a lot.

The Champions are hard equals. Nintendo keeps pushing them as the same thing. There's zero emphasis on any race being consistently playable outside of a Hylian at best(in the mainline series. They aren't the ones programming Hyrule Warriors and at most say "yes" to not a non-canon series), and they don't really play favorites with the other races.

The situations are completely unalike. Basically pure apples to oranges. Even if you don't include the factor of Sakurai, we already see that a specific starter is quite often pushed over another, something you don't get with the Zelda series for generic members of the race. There's a few notable members of any race, sure, but they generally pale importance outside of Ganon/dorf, Link, and Zelda. Impa is the closest one(other than Tingle) to be an actual pretty big character among the typical races, and we don't even know what some final bosses like Vaati fully are(he's a Minish, but that's only one form. Is he really a Nightmare? Who knows). Never mind what Fi, Ghirahim, and Demise are supposed to exactly be. And so on.

Then obviously we'd get a four-in-one Champion fighter to solve that problem as many 'credible' leakers have forewarned about in the past

 

[Theguy123]

• CP9 (Pyra/Mythra) being popular in both the east and west, but not "break the internet" popular and there would still be haters.
• CP10 (Kazuya) being from a third party most people believed would get more representation.
• Both Dante and Monster Hunter being Mii costumes.

The leak isn't going to get anything else right in the future, though. That's by design, and if you stop and take a minute to put 2 and 2 together, it should be fairly obvious why that is.

except no one thought Namco would get base roster content and considering this post was made 3 characters into the pass 2 dlc, everyone was expecting the MH mii costume to come back so this ain’t getting things right. This is just being vague and using known info

the kazuya part as a whole sounds like they were implying sega to get base roster content as they were the ones brought up a lot in base roster due to echos being a thing but with how vague the leak is, this can fit for anything. Can barely call this a leak

 

[Baba]

Imo that leak is just too vague to be taken seriously.

"A third party that most people assumed would have more content in Smash" is vague enough to fit almost any company.
"A character that's popular in both the east and west but won't break the internet" could be literally any first party nintendo character.

I get why people believe the leak, but I personally don't buy it at all.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Rapper Mario leak has enough hard to guess stuff to keep an eye on...

But man, I wouldn't bet a cent on it being true.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm banking on it being most likely 100% fake.

 

[cashregister9]

I can never take this leak seriously because of the name like This plays in my head whenever it's brought up

 

[Shroob]

Rapper Mario leak has enough hard to guess stuff to keep an eye on...

But man, I wouldn't bet a cent on it being true.

Like I mentioned above, the thing that no one points out is that it heavily alludes to CP11's presentation being done and filmed already

But we can have a good idea as to when CP10's was filmed.


And like, as far as we know, none of the presentations have been filmed out of order, in fact, it's the opposite. They've been filmed in order, and we can basically confirm that.

 

[FreeFox]

Even if it gets Phoenix Wright, I wouldnt trust it. I doubt Sakurai is putting more DLC by this point.

 

[PSIGuy]

the final character is rapper mario and for music he brings the entirety of Super Mario Compact Disco. maybe White Knuckle Scorin' too, if only for Ignorance is Bliss.

 

[cashregister9]

the final character is rapper mario and for music he brings the entirety of Super Mario Compact Disco. maybe White Knuckle Scorin' too, if only for Ignorance is Bliss.

In Rapper Mario's Trailer we also find out the status of Mario's Tribal Tattoo

The answer may shock you

 

[ryuryunonoroi]

except no one thought Namco would get base roster content and considering this post was made 3 characters into the pass 2 dlc, everyone was expecting the MH mii costume to come back so this ain’t getting things right. This is just being vague and using known info

the kazuya part as a whole sounds like they were implying sega to get base roster content as they were the ones brought up a lot in base roster due to echos being a thing but with how vague the leak is, this can fit for anything. Can barely call this a leak

I don't technically consider it a true "leak" in the proper sense. As I already stated, in my eyes the Rapper Mario leak is both a real leak and a fake leak. Since you like puzzles so much, why not hand you this riddle?

For reference, here is the original "leak".

Notice how the post is much more specific about CP11 than CP10 or CP9.

Also notice that there is a glaring omission in this "leak" compared to the additional content we have received since this was posted.

Those are the last hints I'm giving you regarding this. I'm not going to do your homework for you. FP2 started with a guessing game, so why not wind things down in the final weeks with a riddle:

How can a leak be both real and fake at the same time?

 

[Shroob]

I don't technically consider it a true "leak" in the proper sense. As I already stated, in my eyes the Rapper Mario leak is both a real leak and a fake leak. Since you like puzzles so much, why not hand you this riddle?

For reference, here is the original "leak".

Notice how the post is much more specific about CP11 than CP10 or CP9.

Also notice that there is a glaring omission in this "leak" compared to the additional content we have received since this was posted.

Those are the last hints I'm giving you regarding this. I'm not going to do your homework for you. FP2 started with a guessing game, so why not wind things down in the final weeks with a riddle:

How can a leak be both real and fake at the same time?

Is the answer you're alluding to that this person somehow knows who CP11 is, or at least a pool of IPs that they could be, and everything else in the leak is bogus ala the Dante leak?


Really not sure I buy that, if that's what you're going for.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The leak mentions Sakurai breaking his own rules in regards to Waluigi as if there was ever even a real, confirmed rule preventing him lol.

personally, based on how real leaks have been, I don’t think Rapper Mario is legit. Rapper Mario definitely needs to be a Mario alt. though.

 

[FreeFox]

Is the answer you're alluding to that this person somehow knows who CP11 is, or at least a pool of IPs that they could be, and everything else in the leak is bogus ala the Dante leak?


Really not sure I buy that, if that's what you're going for.

ryuryunonoroi can correct me if I am wrong but I think he means that the first part is so ambiguous that is was easy for it to be true. And the rest of his content is jus bogus guess work. And it is easy to see if you notice that the latter parts are way more specific with points like franchises getting the characters and companies involved.

 

[WahHahaha]

Please stop mentioning this leak. It's so obviously fake. It's almost as bad as the "list leak" where some guy just copy and pasted a bunch of random video game characters into the post and said it was "Sakurai's list"

When you use such vague terms, it can apply to anyone. I wouldn't even say that Pyra/Mythra angered a fair amount of people. And how does "a character that you would expect more content in base game" apply to Kazuya? Tekken wasn't the only series that people were speculating for base game.

And for the Monster Hunter and Dante costume predictions, which is the only legitimate reason that I think some people believe this leak. It's just a lucky guess, I thought Monster Hunter and Dante wouldn't be playable too. Anybody who connected the dots could also say that maybe they would come to the game as a costume if they already don't think they'll be in the game.

To give you an idea on how easy it is to make a fake leak, and get lucky enough to have some of it be right. I correctly predicted the title of Mario Party Superstars in a 4chan leak I made, that doesn't make me a reliable leaker.

 

[Shroob]

Please stop mentioning this leak. It's so obviously fake. It's almost as bad as the "list leak" where some guy just copy and pasted a bunch of random video game characters into the post and said it was "Sakurai's list"

When you use such vague terms, it can apply to anyone. I wouldn't even say that Pyra/Mythra angered a fair amount of people. And how does "a character that you would expect more content in base game" apply to Kazuya? Tekken wasn't the only series that people were speculating for base game.

And for the Monster Hunter and Dante costume predictions, which is the only legitimate reason that I think some people believe this leak. It's just a lucky guess, I thought Monster Hunter and Dante wouldn't be playable too. Anybody who connected the dots could also say that maybe they would come to the game as a costume if they already don't think they'll be in the game.

To give you an idea on how easy it is to make a fake leak, and get lucky enough to have some of it be right. I correctly predicted the title of Mario Party Superstars in a 4chan leak I made, that doesn't make me a reliable leaker.

To be fair, most of us don't buy it, at all.

 

[WahHahaha]

To be fair, most of us don't buy it, at all.

Enough people believe it for me to have to say this though. I've seen this exact leak reported on multiple news sites and mentioned in speculation every once in a while.

 

[Idon]

Ah yes! Why didn't I consider that?
A leak that has both correct and incorrect information!