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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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UltimateCyborgOverlord

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Regardless, we're not getting an AT as CP11



I know what I just did and I did it entirely intentionally :4pacman:
Just for that, Waluigi will NOT come to Super Smash Bros. He will come over to YOUR HOUSE SPECIFICALLY! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HEH HEH HEH!

"You were looking for the Red Shell Mii Hat? Well HERE IT IS, MR EYEBALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL! WAAAAAAAAA HEH HEH HEH!" Proceeds to throw a Red Shell at you and then invites you to play Mario Party Superstars with him.

Wah.



CP11 could be really anything.
"Hold on Lois... a boat's a boat, but CP11 could be anything! IT COULD EVEN BE A BOAT!"
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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As someone who paid attention to the Fatman issue, I can clear it up a bit; he was banned due to him being a leaker who presented it as "his opinion of it". Basically, he was supposed to bring it to this thread instead, where general leaks belong, instead of using the Geno thread as his own personal "hideout", if you will. He was told to cut it out in the Geno thread. If they don't pertain to Geno or at least Super Mario in general, it's off-topic. This is also a big part of why the thread was locked(there was also heated discussion issues, along with trolling, etc. too).

Basically he broke the rules, refused to follow them clearly(no leak threads is the same case here. You can bring a leak to an appropriate thread otherwise, but, you know, stuff about freaking Zelda has no business being in the Geno thread). Etc.

If I misunderstood any of this, a Mod can help clarify it better. But this is what I know of it.
 

CannonStreak

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About the bonus characters thing some leaks mentioned, I don't get why people would think there would be bonus characters at all. I mean, in Piranha Plant's case, we was going to be in the base game, but he had to be moved to DLC as a bonus character, a case other potential bonus characters do not have. I doubt we'll actually get even one bonus character like how we got Piranha Plant, as the plant was not just thrown in there.
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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Oh

Is it time?


Are we doing death bets again?



All in on no Assist promotion, undecided on 1st or 3rd party for FP11.
Death Bets? Ohhhhh lordy lordy I've never played but here I go. Gonna bet the Burger King on this one.


Actually I'm gonna bet the Burger King on two of em:

Crash Bandicoot and "another Sonic character". I'd love to be wrong, particularly about the "another Sonic character" part... but I do think those would have been at E3 if they were coming. Crash for the hype and Sonic because releasing in June right alongside his actual 30th Anniversary date would have been perfect. The fact that it didn't... well, it doesn't make it IMPOSSIBLE, but I do strongly doubt they are coming at the end.


Now just watch as I lose the bet (and my Burger King) as Doctor Eggman is 11 coming to Smash Ultimate alongside Sonic COLORS Ultimate with a Colors themed stage.
 

Shroob

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About the bonus characters thing some leaks mentioned, I don't get why people would think there would be bonus characters at all. I mean, in Piranha Plant's case, we was going to be in the base game, but he had to be moved to DLC as a bonus character, a case other potential bonus characters do not have. I doubt we'll actually get even one bonus character like how we got Piranha Plant, as the plant was not just thrown in there.
Two reasons really:


A) Wishful thinking, as a sorta "ONE MORE TRY" chance

B) That one Australian/New Zealand thing where there was like 1 additional spot on the website or something, and even then it could have been just an error since no other site had it


Basically, a little bit of desperation and denial, with the faintest bit of hope mixed in.


I wouldn't be opposed to a bonus fighter at all, but I don't expect one.
 

CannonStreak

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Two reasons really:


A) Wishful thinking, as a sorta "ONE MORE TRY" chance

B) That one Australian/New Zealand thing where there was like 1 additional spot on the website or something, and even then it could have been just an error since no other site had it


Basically, a little bit of desperation and denial, with the faintest bit of hope mixed in.


I wouldn't be opposed to a bonus fighter at all, but I don't expect one.
I wouldn't expect one either. I don't think those two reasons, especially the second one, seal the deal on a bonus character being DLC after the second and final pass is finished.
 

GilTheGreat19

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Just been thinking off something. What if mute theory is real but it’s not what people think. People think that mute theory means the last character has to be mute right.

What if it’s an Assist trophy upgrade. It wouldn’t need new voice lines if they’ve already got a bunch in the Assist trophy section. They could just leave the voice lines in the AT section.

take shadow as an example. He’s not really the speaking type character when fighting. He Doesn’t make a bunch of fighting noises. He’s already got chaos blast and chaos control voice lines in the AT section. You’d be able to just add shadow and leave the voice lines In the AT section and not add a new slot into the menu.

This would work for practically any assist trophy. Not saying mute theory is even real. It’s probably fake but just shoving this out there
Not really.
They could use new voice lines if they choose to, and I'd read what Shroob said. He answered your question right imo.
Oh

Is it time?


Are we doing death bets again?



All in on no Assist promotion, undecided on 1st or 3rd party for FP11.
Will he pick 1?
Will he pick 3?

WHAT ABOUT 2?

Stay tuned to find out, folks!
 
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7NATOR

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To be fair, we could do with more absolute statements because it's kind of boring how people are like "Who knows who this character could be?" like I know it's difficult to guess but you could at least put some chips on the table or go all in. Like there is nothing to gain and nothing to lose if you're right or wrong.
You're Right about this. I would say some of the best discussion has come from when people have made some strong statements that people Agree with or Disagree with. I have some statements that I thinking about

-Despite that one Interview, I actually do think Ryu Hayabusa will show up in Some Capacity. I'm gonna suggest that he is a Mii Costume, that is both a Brawler and Swordfighter. The interviews seemed to have more canned/planned responses rather than something like Doomguy interviews. He also could be playable, But lean toward Mii Costumes

-Nahobino is NOT gonna be playable,100%. There's just alot of variables that don't add up to him becoming playable as of right now. SMTV can be represented with either Spirit event or Mii Costume

-Once Geno died in Speculation, alot of the fun in Speculation was lost

-I do think there is a Bonus Fighter despite Sakurai's words. The thing I will say is I predict they going to make it seem like this decision was made very Recently (Like after Kazuya), when it likely was planned from the start. It's good for PR and sales to have a Bonus Fighter thanks to the Support of Fans


Remember that they did something like that with Bayonetta and the Ballot. While Bayonetta probably did do good on the Ballot, it would have been impossible for her to have been chosen because of it

-I also do think Planning for the Next Smash is already underway, with or without Sakurai's permission. Nintendo has likely already been talking to Companies about future appearances in Smash. I don't think it's FP3, but there is already a future being planned for Smash

-An Assist Trophy is definitely being promoted to Playable before this is over
 

Momotsuki

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I stand by an Assist Trophy upgrade being possible. Not likely but very possible. It was something on the table when deciding on the ARMS rep, and if the people upstairs really wanted a character, they're not gonna let a relatively minor decision made three years ago stop them.
Even still, the fact that it can happen doesn't mean it will. Basic math says there are far more video game characters not in the game at all than there are as assist trophies.
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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Strong Opinion:

Final Fighter will be either:

WALUIIIIIIIIIIIGI

Phoenix Wright

or a Pokemon.

Final Fighter will NOT be:

Crash Bandicoot

Another Sonic character

or Ryu Hayabusa/any of the DOA girls.


I bet my BURGER KING on it
 

CannonStreak

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Strong Opinion:

Final Fighter will be either:

WALUIIIIIIIIIIIGI

Phoenix Wright

or a Pokemon.

Final Fighter will NOT be:

Crash Bandicoot

Another Sonic character

or Ryu Hayabusa/any of the DOA girls.


I bet my BURGER KING on it
If you lose, I am gonna love owning that Burger King!

Or some of it, assuming if you lose, the rest of us, including myself, gets a piece of it. I call the burgers!
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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If you lose, I am gonna love owning that Burger King!

Or some of it, assuming if you lose, the rest of us, including myself, gets a piece of it. I call the burgers!
It's a whole value meal of your choice. I prefer the Whopper with Cheese and Pickles only with classic fries and a drink.

Whoever wins gets the Burger King.
 

ArkSPiTFirE

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Just been thinking off something. What if mute theory is real but it’s not what people think. People think that mute theory means the last character has to be mute right.

What if it’s an Assist trophy upgrade. It wouldn’t need new voice lines if they’ve already got a bunch in the Assist trophy section. They could just leave the voice lines in the AT section.

take shadow as an example. He’s not really the speaking type character when fighting. He Doesn’t make a bunch of fighting noises. He’s already got chaos blast and chaos control voice lines in the AT section. You’d be able to just add shadow and leave the voice lines In the AT section and not add a new slot into the menu.

This would work for practically any assist trophy. Not saying mute theory is even real. It’s probably fake but just shoving this out there
Nah, if they promoted Isaac they wouldn't just leave it as "Move!" and "Aaaargh!". It's the original Brawl voice and it definitely won't carry over. It probably doesn't even take up a slot, but who knows. I don't believe there's an arbitrary limit like that either way.

It's interesting to think that they'd have to hire new talent for him like they did for Hero.
 

Cosmic77

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One major thing that people need to remember is that literally every DLC character so far has been either a first-party from a Switch game or a third-party. Very few of Nintendo's newest games have been able to get an AT due to the timing of Ultimate's development. If new games are what they're prioritizing, then it's not particularly hard to pick someone who isn't an AT. Spring Man was actually one of, if not the youngest (and still relevant) characters to get added as an AT. As for third-parties...how many franchises aren't repped at all in Smash? Just about every third-party AT is from a franchise already on the roster, so is it really that surprising that the, like, ten or so third-party ATs didn't net us an upgrade out of the thousands of existing options?

I feel like people are focusing too hard on the idea of whether or not an upgrade is possible rather than taking a step back and asking if any the ATs line up with the DLC we've gotten so far. If we had several ARMS scenarios where an obvious choice got looked over for someone else, then yeah, I might be inclined to believe ATs matter. So far though, we haven't, and the pattern I've seen so far makes me feel like a majority of the ATs were never particularly likely even if they weren't an AT.
 

Guynamednelson

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I feel like people are focusing too hard on the idea of whether or not an upgrade is possible rather than taking a step back and asking if any the ATs line up with the DLC we've gotten so far
Maybe you're too focused on going "No it has to be a Switch rep" any time someone considers the possibility of an older first party joining the roster? Virtually every possible Switch rep is either already in or spirited, FP2 hasn't been doing smaller third parties, and they don't do big third parties at the end, so tell me, where do we go from there?
 

Theguy123

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Virtually every possible Switch rep is either already in or spirited, FP2 hasn't been doing smaller third parties, and they don't do big third parties at the end
laughs and cries as there’s no Layton spirits in smash to represent Layton 7 or the franchise and cries as they didn’t even bring spirits into the game when Layton 7 got a deluxe version a few months ago in Japan.

sometimes it’s hard being a Layton fan
 

Shroob

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Maybe you're too focused on going "No it has to be a Switch rep" any time someone considers the possibility of an older first party joining the roster? Virtually every possible Switch rep is either already in or spirited, FP2 hasn't been doing smaller third parties, and they don't do big third parties at the end, so tell me, where do we go from there?
A medium-sized 3rd party, or another Switch character,
 

Guynamednelson

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A medium-sized 3rd party,
Again, FP2 hasn't been doing that. It seems like its goal in regards to 3rd parties was to acquire huge icons from studios Smash already had reps from, and of course we should know huge third parties ain't final character material.
another Switch character
But who exactly? Sure Smash never got an LM3 spirit event, but it still foreshadowed the existence of the game in the first place, so it's not like an LM3 challenger pack is necessary for Smash to promote it.
 
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Shroob

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Again, FP2 hasn't been doing that. It seems like its goal in regards to 3rd parties was to acquire huge icons from studios Smash already had reps from, and of course we should know huge third parties ain't final character material.

But who exactly? Sure Smash never got an LM3 spirit event, but it still foreshadowed the existence of the game in the first place, so it's not like an LM3 challenger pack is necessary for Smash to promote it.
Weren't you swearing up and down months ago that Steve and Sephiroth took all the budget and that any future 3rd parties would be extremely small? Why the grand heel turn at the 11th hour? Was it because Kazuya threw a wrench in your theory?
 
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Guynamednelson

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Weren't you swearing up and down months ago that Steve and Sephiroth took all the budget and that any future 3rd parties would be extremely small? Why the grand heel turn at the 11th hour? Was it because Kazuya threw a wrench in your theory?
I'm still saying they never save the hugest third-parties for last, aren't I? Besides, Kazuya is from Namco, who's making the game in the first place, and they like referencing their games in their other games, so he would be far cheaper to acquire than, say, Sora.

That, and, you know, the way people speculate changes depending on who's revealed.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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Honestly I still haven't discounted the possibility of an Octoling (with very contrasting moveset from the Inkling) or a Gen 8 Pokémon as possibilities. Both are big, and especially in the case of the former lines up with the strategy of promoting newer games/IPs.
 

Shroob

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I'm still saying they never save the hugest third-parties for last, aren't I? Besides, Kazuya is from Namco, who's making the game in the first place, and they like referencing their games in their other games, so he would be cheaper to acquire than, say, Sora.

You're moving the goalposts, hard, but that's frankly not surprising considering the track record of:


October: Steve took all the budget, rest of the pass will be low key

December: Steve AND Sephiroth took all the budget, rest of pass will be low key

June: Steve, Sephiroth, AND Kazuya took all the budget



There's nothing saying that the last character will be 3rd party, but nothing saying they won't be 1st either. There's nothing saying if they're 3rd party that they'll be big, but also saying there's nothing saying they'll be small either.


I swear I've seen you disparage fan rules dozens of times in the pass, and yet, you keep making them every time we get a new character revealed.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Broke: Gothitelle
Woke: Mario2

:4pacman:
Honestly I still haven't discounted the possibility of an Octoling (with very contrasting moveset from the Inkling) or a Gen 8 Pokémon as possibilities. Both are big, and especially in the case of the former lines up with the strategy of promoting newer games/IPs.
I’m still super super confident in Octoling since I have a feeling once Smash’s DLC is done Nintendo will want to push Splatoon 3. I think Octoling as the last DLC is a reasonable tie in
 

Guynamednelson

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Steve AND Sephiroth took all the budget,
If anything I'm still saying this by knowing Kazuya would be cheaper to acquire than a big third-party by a studio not helping out with development of the game.

But what do I know, I'm just someone who hopes for a character that's illegal to talk about in modern speculation.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Broke: Gothitelle
Woke: Mario2

:4pacman:

I’m still super super confident in Octoling since I have a feeling once Smash’s DLC is done Nintendo will want to push Splatoon 3. I think Octoling as the last DLC is a reasonable tie in
And keep in mind while Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, and Splatoon are popular in the West, they're even more beloved back home, Given what we've seen with much of the first party DLC, an Octoling is a safe choice for the US & Europe while likely doing huge numbers in Japan.
 

Schnee117

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If anything I'm still saying this by knowing Kazuya would be cheaper to acquire than a big third-party by a studio not helping out with development of the game.

But what do I know, I'm just someone who hopes for a character that's illegal to talk about in modern speculation.
No, you just have a victim complex because you can't handle people having valid arguments against your most wanted's chances
 

Shroob

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If anything I'm still saying this by knowing Kazuya would be cheaper to acquire than a big third-party by a studio not helping out with development of the game.

But what do I know, I'm just someone who hopes for a character that's illegal to talk about in modern speculation.
This line right here is the issue.


Just because people find a character unlikely does not warrant a reaction like this.
 

ArkSPiTFirE

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One major thing that people need to remember is that literally every DLC character so far has been either a first-party from a Switch game or a third-party. Very few of Nintendo's newest games have been able to get an AT due to the timing of Ultimate's development. If new games are what they're prioritizing, then it's not particularly hard to pick someone who isn't an AT. Spring Man was actually one of, if not the youngest (and still relevant) characters to get added as an AT. As for third-parties...how many franchises aren't repped at all in Smash? Just about every third-party AT is from a franchise already on the roster, so is it really that surprising that the, like, ten or so third-party ATs didn't net us an upgrade out of the thousands of existing options?

I feel like people are focusing too hard on the idea of whether or not an upgrade is possible rather than taking a step back and asking if any the ATs line up with the DLC we've gotten so far. If we had several ARMS scenarios where an obvious choice got looked over for someone else, then yeah, I might be inclined to believe ATs matter. So far though, we haven't, and the pattern I've seen so far makes me feel like a majority of the ATs were never particularly likely even if they weren't an AT.
It does definitely feel like they're clearing the Switch backlog yes, however I think there's a cut off point somewhere that might see Astral Chain and Ring Fit out of the running. The spirit events don't outright deconfirm but the timing suggests this was al lthey could do. Pokémon is a topic all by itself, while there's lots of factors against it, I can't deny Pokémon is the biggest franchise in the world and it's a very Nintendo thing to cater to it, but thinking that's going to happen is not going to be a fun time for me.

So when it comes to Assist Trophies, a lot of them are appropriate to the series they're representing and are popular side characters for the most part (not going into whether Alucard is a side character or not. I can see otherwise, but we just got two other reps). Then there's some instances where they're the only rep to an un-represented series and sometimes their inclusion is nice and makes sense like for Yuri and Rathalos. Then there's a messy area of main characters that range from "Yeah, no one cares" to "Why would you just rule them out?!". This all gets speculative. Personally I think AT's like Dillon and Starfy, are fine where they are, but AT's like Isaac and Bomberman just got people upset. Shovel Knight too, but he's had it harder, being an indie. I still hope he gets a costume.

On top of that, there's plenty of others from existing series that people want, which leads into the point of the post. ATs imprison characters that people actually want, so usually when people go full on advocating for assist trophies, it's because there's a character they want and ATs are considered a barrier, so they will campaign for that barrier to be removed. It doesn't mean we advocate for all trophies to be promoted one day. Although, groups like Assist Alliance are certainly advocating for many, because if one is promoted then it gives hope to the others (though less so now we're down to one character).

Anyway, I'm basically saying that I want Isaac to be promoted from an Assist because I want Isaac and Golden Sun in Smash. Not because I like the idea of assists being promoted. Sure, there's a few others I like, but if Isaac got in I would probably pack up my "Well ATs don't deconfirm" attitude, and treat it as just an exception for the sake of demand (unless told otherwise).

So yeah I get that many of them simply don't matter at this point, but considering where Isaac was in terms of popularity in 2018, I think he would have been very likely if the AT just hadn't showed up. Maybe not all the way to 2021...who knows. I'd like to think so, but it's mostly third parties that dominate speculation now.
 
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