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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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DanganZilla5

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You know, one of the things that struck me as odd on the story of how Pyra/Mythra came to be is that vanilla Xenoblade Chronicles 2's mechanics seemed to be the second option considered. The general consensus on this fact seemed to be that they'd be like the Ice Climbers (EDIT: Even Sakurai compared the two) which never made sense to me (they could have done it that way if they gave Rex the Junk Sword but it would still be a rather strange way of going about it). What if instead Rex & Pyra were going to be a different take on the swap character that Zelda/Sheik and the Pokémon Trainer were before them, and Pyra/Mythra ended up being?

It would still have some relevance to the source material since Driver/Blade Swapping is a thing in Xenoblade Chronicles 2: Torna ~ The Golden Country, and would likely have also been inspired by the first fight with Malos where Rex and Pyra fought in tandem with each other (Malos and...Skarr? did so as well, and I think it's the only fight where Drivers and Blades truly fought together rather than having the Blades stand back until it was time to do their abilities were they not passive).

So how would that have worked? My guess is something like Afi & Galu from Icons: Combat Arena in the sense that both characters would be on screen at all times, but you could swap the one you controlled mid combat. In this case, they would pass the Aegis Sword back and forth in order to cover more options or press their advantage. They likely would have also had the mechanic that would have caused them to share the damage and knockback that they take (perhaps taking less damage than normal since they'd take double damage if they got hit at the same time), which would also make them more like a pseudo puppet fighter since you have more than one entity to protect at all times. They might could have also given the inactive character a way to directly aid the active one, but I dunno how that would fit onto the control scheme.

So how does Mythra fit into this mechanic? I kinda don't think she could without overcomplicating things, but a similarly playing Rex & Mythra would make for a neat clone character. If they were going to try and fit Mythra into this, they might've been able to have Pyra and Mythra swap via a Shield Special, and then the two would compliment Rex's moveset in different ways, likely in a similar fashion to how they compliment each other now.

Admittedly, the mechanic could still be compared to the Ice Climbers (sort of like Ice Climbers meets Pokémon Trainer meets Rosalina & Luma), but it does have enough nuances to be considered its own thing. What do you guys think about this idea?
I think you are on the right track. Pyra and Mythra would have been able to give Rex different attacks and could have been swapped out with the down special (Or performing the shield down special as you mentioned if they wanted to make Rex and Pyra swappable). Personally I always imagined it as Rex mostly being the one attacking with Pyra/Mythra joining in for a couple special attacks, just like in the original game. I'm not sure whether they would want to make the two of them fight separately though, and whether or not Pyra/Mythra would have a hurtbox would have depended on how they balanced Rex.

I do think it's a shame that we didn't get to see the driver/blade system in this game. It would have been super cool and while they could revisit the idea in future games, the fact is they would have to get rid of Pythra's moveset altogether and create pretty much a new fighter, and at that point they probably would prefer to focus on new fighters, especially since XC3 will surely be a thing before the next Smash. However I'm fine with their current moveset. After just getting Kazuya I appreciate the simpler fighting style and I'm super happy Xenoblade 2 got more content (As it deserved to get).
 

Guynamednelson

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I mean, I think Nintendo, for all their faults, don't really 'want' that.


Like, the Smash 4 DLC, which only had 7 characters mind you, cost as much as both Fighter Passes combined iirc.
Smash 4 still had you buy both versions to get Mewtwo early, that's probably worse. Although not as bad as paying $60 for GGXrd Sign, then $60 for Revelator, then $20 for the DLC characters, then $20 for Rev2 for the final two DLCs.
 

GilTheGreat19

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I mean

I have not played XC2 but the idea of having Rex fight with Pyra and Mythra powering him as his fellow blades in the background sounds kinda neat and logical by thought to me.
 

DanganZilla5

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I have not played XC2
I'm not sure if you are a fan of RPGs or not but you are missing out on one heck of a game brother. It has such a deep story with wonderful characters and it has one of my absolute top favorite OSTs ever.

I know this ain't the social or general gaming thread, but I just want to advocate for XC2 whenever I can. I love it to death.
 

GilTheGreat19

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I'm not sure if you are a fan of RPGs or not but you are missing out on one heck of a game brother. It has such a deep story with wonderful characters and it has one of my absolute top favorite OSTs ever.

I know this ain't the social or general gaming thread, but I just want to advocate for XC2 whenever I can. I love it to death.
Haha love the enthusiasm : )

So I'm not a MAJOR RPG dude. I'm a Pokemon fan, and I recently started playing Persona 4 Golden (The soundtrack pulled me in ngl). And although it's not a JRPG, Wizard101 will always be a favorite of mine. Love It to death.

Xenoblade 2 is a game that I may pick up at some point. I always find myself shocked by how many people adore the game, and given how everyone loves Rex, Pythra, and the other party members + Jin and Malos, I think MonolithSoft did a good job making a memorable game.
 

DarthEnderX

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I feel like Arc System Works has a pretty good chance. I don't know what the odds are that we'll get two fighting game series in a row, but Guilty Gear (or BlazBlue, if they go with that route)
I don't see BlazBlue happening. If we get ArcSys, it's either gonna be mascot Sol, or NES icon Kunio.

I've felt through my own ocd-ness that this fp should end with the ultimate villian
We already got Sephiroth...

Btw:
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Personally I always imagined it as Rex mostly being the one attacking with Pyra/Mythra joining in for a couple special attacks, just like in the original game. I'm not sure whether they would want to make the two of them fight separately though, and whether or not Pyra/Mythra would have a hurtbox would have depended on how they balanced Rex.
This is the idea that seems the most natural to me since it's a more direct representation of Xenoblade Chronicles 2's gameplay, and it's how I conceptualized the character in my Rex & Pyra/Mythra Fighter Pack idea.

Looking into it more though, it kind of looks like neither of these ideas were considered at all. According to this video from SourceGaming, it looks like Sakurai considered literally just making them like the Ice Climbers in that you control them simultaneously, or having Rex be a standalone fighter with Pyra being there for flavor like the Pokémon Trainer. Both ideas (the second one especially) sound kinda lame in comparison to the ones mentioned earlier IMO.

This might actually be why they didn't work as a duo with this concept due to their complex designs despite their models being able to be present at all times: The other Ice Climber isn't just another model, they're another fighter entirely, and the "sacrifices" they had to make likely had to do with their visual effects (Pyra at least would require a ton of fire effects and the like on everything) and individual mechanical complexity (Rex would absolutely fit that bill with his Arts as Special Moves, but some of Pyra's Special Moves do have some unique properties behind them). Looking back for clarification, Sakurai does allude to this, but everyone including myself latched onto the part about the model's complexity.

Perhaps the actually gameplay accurate approach would have worked, but they never thought of it since the first duo idea didn't. I would be bummed out all over again if it turned out that that was indeed the case.

I do think it's a shame that we didn't get to see the driver/blade system in this game. It would have been super cool and while they could revisit the idea in future games, the fact is they would have to get rid of Pythra's moveset altogether and create pretty much a new fighter, and at that point they probably would prefer to focus on new fighters, especially since XC3 will surely be a thing before the next Smash.
I don't think you would have to get rid of Pyra/Mythra. If you were adding Rex & Pyra/Mythra into the game alongside them, then you could give the NPC Aegis the disguise Pyra wore in the beginning of the game when they and the playable version were both present so they couldn't be confused for each other. If it was Nia & Dromarch or Torra & Poppi though it wouldn't even be an issue.

You are right though, Pyra/Mythra is all Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is going to get in the character department since the rotating cast dictates that only the current protagonist can get in, which just sucks.
 

DanganZilla5

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I don't think you would have to get rid of Pyra/Mythra. If you were adding Rex & Pyra/Mythra into the game alongside them, then you could give the NPC Aegis the disguise Pyra wore in the beginning of the game when they and the playable version were both present so they couldn't be confused for each other. If it was Nia & Dromarch or Torra & Poppi though it wouldn't even be an issue.
You are correct. I just worded it poorly. I'm saying that with the addition of Rex they would have to fundamentally change how they play and at that point they wouldn't bother.
 

TheCJBrine

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personally while I wouldn’t have minded an easier moveset, like little to no gimmicks like most characters and maybe with some more cool Minecraft items, I’m happy he went with what he did, as I thought being able to place blocks on the stage would be cool and fun (and it is imo), and the crafting + mining mechanics are really cool.

(some of the combos people pull off seem at least a little easy anyway, people are doing 0-death combos with just wooden tools and a few dirt blocks :eek:)
 
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silenthunder

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A thought occurred to me. What if we get another Rare rep to close the pass out? Fulgore from Killer Instinct in particular was very prominent in marketing material for Nintendo during the SNES/N64 and arcade era
ULTRA COMBOOOOO!
 

SmashCraftNin1064

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Man, it’s been a while when I’m gone….

But here is a long list on my last prediction on who will be the last DLC on Smash Ultimate along with a stage along with some spirits and Miis. Don’t take this as a leak or anything, I’m just want to have some fun. Though, having Crash Bandicoot, Master Chief, Dr. Eggman, or Waluigi would be great as final characters…
  • Last character: Decidueye
    • There’s a pattern going on in the 2nd Fighters Pass:
      • Sakurai wanted ARMS to have a playable character in Smash but have no time since it came out before Smash released so he made Spring Man into an assist trophy. Then later on, he added Min Min because he and the creator of ARMS wanted her in (in), despite her already being a spirit in the base game.
      • It took the Smash team five years to put Steve in Smash
      • There’s already no spirits and so little songs on FFVII in the base game so there has to be another FF character on their way. (Being Sephiroth)
      • Sakurai really wanted Rex to be Smash but since Xenoblade 2 came before Smash, Rex was added as a Mii. Sakurai said it’s also hard to have Rex in Smash because having two completely different characters as a duo would’ve been hard while another duo like Ice Climbers have simple designs. So he added Rex’s blades to be playable.
      • Sakurai really wanted Heihachi but it’ll be hard to make a moveset. So he chose Hehachi’s son Kazuya because it’s more easier since Kazuya has the devil gene.
      • Decidueye was planned to be in Smash Ultimate but went with Incineroar since he has a more unique moveset. And since Arceus has Rowlet as a starter, final evolution being Decidueye, it’s possible
  • Stage: Ancient Sinnoh Region from the upcoming Legends Arceus
  • Spirits:
    • Legend Arceus Trainers
    • Wooper
      • Evolves to Quagsire
    • Samurott
    • Typhlosion
    • Cinderace
    • Rillaboom
    • Inteleon
    • Toxricity
    • Urshifu
    • Calyrex as the legendary because I don’t know who else
  • Mii costumes
    • Phoenix Wright (Mii Brawler)
    • Doom Guy (Mii Gunner)
    • Rayman (Mii Brawler)
    • Jonesy (Mii Gunner)
    • Monokuma (Mii Brawler)
    • Crash Bandicoot (Mii Brawler)
      • N. Sanity Beach as a bonus track

Best way to end off 2nd Fighters Pass! Just like how they end the 1st Fighters Pass!

I can be completely wrong with this, this is my predictions. And thanks for reading this long list if you did.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I think despite how 'boring' the downtime FP2 has had, there's been some legitimately funny moments.


Like when Sakurai once said that "You may find a character from a manga" in regards to Googling Spring Man.



Me, a guy who knows a ton of obscure Japanese trivia:

View attachment 326630
Then it got funnier when one of the 5 legit Spring Man fans got mad and thought that was the reason he wasn't made playable
 

Shroob

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Then it got funnier when one of the 5 legit Spring Man fans got mad and thought that was the reason he wasn't made playable
Never thought I'd ever mix Kinnikuman and Smash Bros but that definitely took me by surprise.


It's a series dear to me since I grew up on a really obscure fan site dedicated to it, but man, it hasn't aged well.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I think the issue that Rex had was that they probably wanted to switch between Pyra and Mythra in the gameplay.

The two swapping is a huge part of the gameplay and story of Xenoblade 2. I imagine the swapping AND the Ice Climbers like situation is what made the concept too hard.
 

TheCJBrine

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-nevermind, delete this if you want. I was finally told stuff about chubbydudeonfrozenwater that makes sense and I can actually understand instead of just “dude trust me” and whatever…sorry if I sounded ridiculous or anything, I guess I’m too positive sometimes although I guess I was just going off of what I could see on this site over the past few years…
 
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Theguy123

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A thought occurred to me. What if we get another Rare rep to close the pass out? Fulgore from Killer Instinct in particular was very prominent in marketing material for Nintendo during the SNES/N64 and arcade era
it’s not impossible but another western rep is just highly unlikely. Especially from rare as didn’t sakurai specifically say that negotiations for Steve were the reason why banjo made it in. Would imply a 2nd rare rep is probably unlikely.
 

Evil Trapezium

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it’s not impossible but another western rep is just highly unlikely. Especially from rare as didn’t sakurai specifically say that negotiations for Steve were the reason why banjo made it in. Would imply a 2nd rare rep is probably unlikely.
That was Rare studio head, Craig Duncan who said Minecraft paved the way for Banjo & Kazooie. Sakurai just said it was really easy get them.
 

Theguy123

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Pic of the Day:

I love this image soo much. It reminds me off the Layton games, curious village to be specific because there’s a gigantic picture frame on the wall inside the rinehold manner house which is constantly referred throughout the game and brought up in a lot of the cutscenes and it has a gigantic picture like this of flora who’s kind of royalty in a way.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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I’m skeptical about any third party rep from a company that isn’t already in the game by now. Patterns in Smash often break, but given the last new third party to get a fighter to was almost two years ago in the first pass, it would be quite a shift for that to change with the very last character.
 

Theguy123

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I’m skeptical about any third party rep from a company that isn’t already in the game by now. Patterns in Smash often break, but given the last new third party to get a fighter to was almost two years ago in the first pass, it would be quite a shift for that to change with the very last character.
i personally believe the chances of ending on a new company is high. I personally think only sega and potentially atlus stand in the way off a new third party company and that’s about it.

i wouldn’t have a clue which new third party it is. I’m not a mind reader but if I had to guess I’d say it would be koei tecmo or level 5 since they’re probably the only 2 big gaming companies left in Japan currently.

Koei tecmo has the better chance though due to working currently on Nintendo games and that vergeben has said Nintendo held talks with koei tecmo and we’ve had nothing soo far (unless it was for the Sophia spirit)
 
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Okay, this means that we never see 3D Urban Champion in the game.
But Ice Climbers cannot be only one Retro rep, since there are others that possibly join the battle like Mach Rider, Urban Champion, Bubbles, ExciteBiker (who has also modern games like ExciteTruck) or even others. So this means the one of them can be actually FP vol.2 Suprise Character. (Not counting Piranha plant since it doesn't being involve about Retro reps.)
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Okay, this means that we never see 3D Urban Champion in the game.
But Ice Climbers cannot be only one Retro rep, since there are others that possibly join the battle like Mach Rider, Urban Champion, Bubbles, ExciteBiker (who has also modern games like ExciteTruck) or even others. So this means the one of them can be actually FP vol.2 Suprise Character. (Not counting Piranha plant since it doesn't being involve about Retro reps.)
Unrelated to your comment but I question that thumbnail. What the hell is it?
 

The Rhythm Theif

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2018-2019 was extremely fun due to a metric ton of just, everything. You had pre-release hype, official reveals, leaks, etc, and my god, the leaks were amazing on both ends of the spectrum.


On one hand, you had stuff like, Vergeben and the Ken Picture leak


On the other hand, you had: "I STOLE A DEMO KIOSK SWITCH AND DATAMINED THE DEMO BUT THEN THE DEMO SELF-TERMINATED SOMEHOW BUT TRUST ME GARDEVOIR AND GOTHITELLE ARE IN!"


2020-2021 has really had none of that. At best we've had leaks like, 5 minutes before the character comes out, but like, what do we have right now? ****ing Rapper Mario, which is about as believable as me winning the lottery?
OK, not gonna lie, this specific part right here...
On the other hand, you had: "I STOLE A DEMO KIOSK SWITCH AND DATAMINED THE DEMO BUT THEN THE DEMO SELF-TERMINATED SOMEHOW BUT TRUST ME GARDEVOIR AND GOTHITELLE ARE IN!"


2020-2021 has really had none of that. At best we've had leaks like, 5 minutes before the character comes out, but like, what do we have right now? ****ing Rapper Mario, which is about as believable as me winning the lottery?
...had me dying with laughter. I can't believe that people actually believed something that's on the same amount of weirdness as this:
It is said that this is the last thing you see before you die.png
 

PSIGuy

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I still think Rex + a single Aegis could've had enough for a full moveset. An entire moveset consisting of intentional, old Ice Climber style combos would provide a lot to work with, and canceling arts into specials is a core mechanic of XB2 (or jabs/tilts into smashes/specials in Smash's case).
 

The Rhythm Theif

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I still think Rex + a single Aegis could've had enough for a full moveset. An entire moveset consisting of intentional, old Ice Climber style combos would provide a lot to work with, and canceling arts into specials is a core mechanic of XB2 (or jabs/tilts into smashes/specials in Smash's case).
But then that would've meant wobbling could've made it back. And before you try to argue, YOU were the one who said "old Ice Climber style combos".
 
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