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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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ArkSPiTFirE

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banjo is a promo for nintnedo and xbox relationship and banjo also had some people VERY high up in microsoft pulling for him.
duck hunt isnt a dlc so his inclusion isnt the same at all. lil mac had a game come out right before he was added.
i still don't understand what they're promo-ing exactly. Playing old Banjo games on the Xbox? Ok. I didn't see any of that for Steve though. They didn't say you can play Minecraft on Xbox or anything. I guess Steve speaks for himself.

The Punch out game came out 5 years before Smash 4. I did say it barely counted. Could've gone with Ice Climbers, that was about a 20 year gap.

I feel like Waluigi could have a Mario Party Block as his neutral B and be even more RNG the character than Hero
Impossible!
 
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ArkSPiTFirE

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I really think you're underestimating waluigi's popularity tbh, he's a meme and cultural phenomenon
I don't think that's helping your argument, considering a cultural phenomenon is by definition a bandwagon effect. I agree he certainly has that, but lets not pretend he means more to gamers than any other character that's not on the roster yet.
 
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FreeFox

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I think Waluigi suffers from a similar problem to Rayman. From what I've seen from Japan's top ten list posted on here occasionally, I don't remember seeing Waluigi even make the lists so his popularity only stems from western demand which seems to fall on deaf ears over at Nintendo of Japan.

So yeah just like Rayman, Waluigi's outcry is only visible in the west.
So, how many popular western picks have we gotten in ultimate (that at the same time arent that popular in Japan)?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Maybe it's a joke since the other file names were obvious? Idk Japanese tho... Or if pra and Mai either are acronyms, abbreviations etc
Basically, while it's similar to Plusle and Minun's Japanese names, those aren't actually written that way in the same context as the other set of Japanese Pokemon names.

It's not "Random", and it could be something they wrote very oddly, but there's nothing tying them to the Pokemon other than what a person could translate it, not what it should be.

But yeah, the other file names are very clear. Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario. Plain as day. Clones and all, heh.

Maybe there's honestly some other duo we don't know of that could fit the file names, or maybe they just wrote them differently for some weird reason. Plusle and Minun I think also lacked a trophy or something? I forget how it relates to these file names.
 

FreeFox

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Basically, while it's similar to Plusle and Minun's Japanese names, those aren't actually written that way in the same context as the other set of Japanese Pokemon names.

It's not "Random", and it could be something they wrote very oddly, but there's nothing tying them to the Pokemon other than what a person could translate it, not what it should be.

But yeah, the other file names are very clear. Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario. Plain as day. Clones and all, heh.

Maybe there's honestly some other duo we don't know of that could fit the file names, or maybe they just wrote them differently for some weird reason. Plusle and Minun I think also lacked a trophy or something? I forget how it relates to these file names.
Actually, they do have a trophy in Brawl. In what might be considered to be the same vein as Ivysaur and Squirtle who have a trophy in Smash 4.
 

Theguy123

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So, how many popular western picks have we gotten in ultimate (that at the same time arent that popular in Japan)?
none. The only western picks we’ve gotten in ultimates dlc are banjo and Steve which are both popular in Japan and the west

And for base roster I don’t think we had any. Was ken a western pick, if so then he’s probably popular in Japan as well since street fighter is popular.
 

Sucumbio

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Basically, while it's similar to Plusle and Minun's Japanese names, those aren't actually written that way in the same context as the other set of Japanese Pokemon names.

It's not "Random", and it could be something they wrote very oddly, but there's nothing tying them to the Pokemon other than what a person could translate it, not what it should be.

But yeah, the other file names are very clear. Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik, Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario. Plain as day. Clones and all, heh.

Maybe there's honestly some other duo we don't know of that could fit the file names, or maybe they just wrote them differently for some weird reason. Plusle and Minun I think also lacked a trophy or something? I forget how it relates to these file names.
They have a trophy ... I'd totally dig playing as them actually and with the new Pokemon moba (edited for fat thumbs) I think I'm almost 50%, positive the last character is a Pokemon.
 
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Evil Trapezium

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So, how many popular western picks have we gotten in ultimate (that at the same time arent that popular in Japan)?
Just Banjo & Kazooie if you compare them to other characters and even then it's a bit of stretch since they still had a decent following in Japan.

What the Girl from Hajimari no Mori's real name is.

We may never know...
It's Komurasaki. She's a Youkai who the protagonist meets and then she disappears for the entire game, maybe. Here's a video of the game if you're interested. She appears at 16:35.

 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Actually, they do have a trophy in Brawl. In what might be considered to be the same vein as Ivysaur and Squirtle who have a trophy in Smash 4.
They have a trophy ... I'd totally dig playing as them actually and with the new Pokemon mmob I think I'm almost 50%, positive the last character is a Pokemon.
I want to know what the trophy's file name is. Albeit, the same with the way the other Pokemon trophies are named. Could make for interesting results.

Like, there's not much else those two could be, but still.

Truthfully the only Pokemon I expect is still Gen VIII at this time. I never thought the Spirit Event meant much, if only because there was no way they'd avoid a Spirit Event whatsoever for it, character or not. It's too big to avoid it. If it was missing, I'd call foul, even with a character coming down the line. The only thing I consider a fairly good point now is that it's pretty late to give a Gen VIII Pokemon. But that's kind of it. They also could easily give a Spirit Event for the DLC stuff, as they're basically separate games like the normal 3rd versions, just done as DLC. And shortened because they're specifically post-game, which makes sense in that context.
 

FreeFox

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none. The only western picks we’ve gotten in ultimates dlc are banjo and Steve which are both popular in Japan and the west

And for base roster I don’t think we had any. Was ken a western pick, if so then he’s probably popular in Japan as well since street fighter is popular.
Just Banjo & Kazooie if you compare them to other characters and even then it's a bit of stretch since they still had a decent following in Japan.
Yeah, makes sense. If we are talking base game, I think the closest we would have as a true western pick would probably be Ridley. (Mostly based on the fact that metroid is bigger on the west) though I think he also had a japanese following.
 

Evil Trapezium

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Yeah, makes sense. If we are talking base game, I think the closest we would have as a true western pick would probably be Ridley. (Mostly based on the fact that metroid is bigger on the west) though I think he also had a japanese following.
If Sakurai was in charge of the DLC picks like he was for the base game then Rayman and Waluigi might have had a chance. With Nintendo, I think for all they care believe that both what Japan and the West want are no different from each other which to be fair isn't that far from the truth.
 

blackghost

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i still don't understand what they're promo-ing exactly. Playing old Banjo games on the Xbox? Ok. I didn't see any of that for Steve though. They didn't say you can play Minecraft on Xbox or anything. I guess Steve speaks for himself.

The Punch out game came out 5 years before Smash 4. I did say it barely counted. Could've gone with Ice Climbers, that was about a 20 year gap.
once again as Ive said and others have said DLC doesnt equal base game addition.

and interms of promo for microsoft and nintnedo everything isnt about the players some is corporate goodwill and negotiation
 

subterrestrial

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I don't think that's helping your argument, considering a cultural phenomenon is by definition a bandwagon effect. I agree he certainly has that, but lets not pretend he means more to gamers than any other character that's not on the roster yet.
wym ? being a cultural phenomenon and people bandwagoning on is just proof of waluigi's sheer popularity and mass appeal
 

7NATOR

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So, how many popular western picks have we gotten in ultimate (that at the same time arent that popular in Japan)?
Ridley, and also by extension Dark Samus

Otherwise that is it. Banjo I think even had some popularity in Japan (Just not as much as in West), and other characters like K.Rool, Steve, Pyra/Mythra had popularity everywhere

In regards to Waluigi, He's more of a Ridley than he is a K.Rool, since I actually haven't seen much fanfare for Waluigi in Smash overseas. The only thing is that Japan should be much more familiar with Waluigi because Japan does love Mario games, including the Spin-offs like Mario Kart, So that's a benefit he has over someone like Ridley

And in regards to a Challenger Pack, The main Selling point is the Character, so I do think if Sakurai and/or Nintendo were down for Waluigi for FP2, would not be prevented by lack of Supplements. What I would say though Is I Imagine they could have structured the FP2 differently if they planned with Waluigi (if Hypothetically in) in that Only 5 of the Fighters in FP2 came with the Stage, Music, Spirits, since to be honest Waluigi would be fine without all that stuff, though I don't think this hypothetical scenario should look down on chances of Waluigi being in

----------------

You know, I see Talks about Characters that are Assist Trophies, and I have would usually bring up Shadow, but I'm gonna be honest, I've been a little burnt out on Talking about Shadow getting into Smash

I'm just going to be arguing against the Same arguments alot of time of why's he's Unlikely, and it can be a bit tiring. I understand people set in their ways, and I understand I'm set in my ways. I Personally think none of the arguments I've seen against him Actually affect if he would be a Good choice for Nintendo to add as DLC

All I would say is that Kazuya gives more legitimacy to Shadow getting in since people did not see Kazuya as the Representation we get from Tekken if we got character, and the Heihachi Costume situation should disregard the mention of the Sonic Mii's against him especially considering those Costumes are much older
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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bro nintendo obviously cares, both reggie and doug bowser officially addressed his smash exclusion when he was revealed to not be playable. afaik they didnt do that for any other character

I really think you're underestimating waluigi's popularity tbh, he's a meme and cultural phenomenon
I never heard Doug Bowser's statement, but I don't think Reggie fuming at the "why does Nintendo hate Waluigi" question really backs up the argument.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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reggie literally said "sakurai is aware of his support"
Must have been a different statement or something.

Still, there's no doubt that Nintendo is aware of the support, but being aware and picking a character solely based on it are two different things, and I will be surprised if they do the latter.

EDIT: Waluigi is essentially relying on the scenario in which 1, they're OK with adding in Assist Trophy characters, and 2, they decided to add Waluigi only because of fan demand, and decided to try and book-end (or have some fitting end) the reveals with a fan favorite instead of releasing them during their series huge aniversary marketing push. I don't find this to be a likely scenario.
 
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N3ON

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Seems entirely conjectural to declare Waluigi not popular in Japan. As is usually the case for making declarations about Japanese popularity, which people build entire cases out of on crumbs. Comparing him to Ridley is pretty out there.

I think Waluigi is probably popular in Japan. As popular as in the west? I don't know, maybe not. But as popular and as well-known as you'd expect from any regularly recurring Mario character? I would imagine so. Popular enough that when he eventually becomes playable Japan certainly wouldn't be blindsided.

If you're basing your declarations on his not appearing on polls, remember that he's been considered to be benched since basically the beginning of Ultimate, and was already an AT when the ballot was happening. Neither of those metrics are going to be an accurate reflection of his general popularity.
 

Theguy123

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It’s hard to tell if a character is popular or not if they don’t have a game. Usually if you have a game then obviously sales will tell if that characters game and the character itself is popular.

In waluigi’s case it’s gonna be hard to tell if he’s popular in Japan unless Nintendo has official Japanese mario character polls to see how popular certain Mario characters are or gives him his own game.
 

GilTheGreat19

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Well yes but if it's negligible that's going to be a hindrance more than a boon.
Correct me if I misunderstood but by “negligible” do you refer to a character that overall lacks an adequate following or fan base?
 

Þe 1 → Way

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Heres a thought. If Masterchief was added as a Mii Costume in the Final Wave, would he be a Swordfighter using the Beam Sword or a Gunner using a random gun?

The Beam Sword is the most iconic Halo weapon, but it just feels right to make Chief a gunner given Halos general gameplay.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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Heres a thought. If Masterchief was added as a Mii Costume in the Final Wave, would he be a Swordfighter using the Beam Sword or a Gunner using a random gun?

The Beam Sword is the most iconic Halo weapon, but it just feels right to make Chief a gunner given Halos general gameplay.
I think he'd be a gunner due to the status of Halo as one of the most iconic shooters in the genre.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Heres a thought. If Masterchief was added as a Mii Costume in the Final Wave, would he be a Swordfighter using the Beam Sword or a Gunner using a random gun?

The Beam Sword is the most iconic Halo weapon, but it just feels right to make Chief a gunner given Halos general gameplay.
He would be:
  • A Gunner because FPS.
  • Potentially also a Swordfighter because Beam Sword.
  • Potentially also a Brawler if there's some knuckle weapon so they don't have to worry about weird exclusivity rules.
  • But if the previous 2 don't apply, then Gunner exclusive.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Must have been a different statement or something.

Still, there's no doubt that Nintendo is aware of the support, but being aware and picking a character solely based on it are two different things, and I will be surprised if they do the latter.

EDIT: Waluigi is essentially relying on the scenario in which 1, they're OK with adding in Assist Trophy characters, and 2, they decided to add Waluigi only because of fan demand, and decided to try and book-end (or have some fitting end) the reveals with a fan favorite instead of releasing them during their series huge aniversary marketing push. I don't find this to be a likely scenario.
They aren't going to care about AT's in itself. Why would they? It has zip to do with business. Sakurai, sure, he might. And he could deny it based upon that. But that's as far it would realistically go. Money is the point behind it. Also opening up good will with other companies. Yet they still go with 1st party characters anyway. In what way would an AT be relevant to their decisions? It's just an NPC role to them. No different from what Spirits are in this context. ...Of which three got a playable version(not literally promoted, as the old ones are there). The only slight difference is they were from, what, new games? It's not like Waluigi isn't in a new game right now. The thing is? If Waluigi isn't chosen it'd be because Nintendo already had someone else in mind before he was suggested, Sakurai didn't want to give an AT a separate playable role, or Sakurai couldn't think of a good way to represent the character properly as a moveset. All of these fit within the realistic scenarios. Nintendo caring about AT's is not the case. In fact, most people don't care if an AT is playable in the same game among players. Only a vocal minority is against it at best. To say the least, Nintendo isn't going to listen to them either way. They would rather listen to the far bigger amount of people who want him playable, and they know this is the case too. And that's even assuming they heard any people say "No AT upgrades! It's a bad idea!" basically(that's not some call-out to anyone. That's just a generic way to say the point).

I agree with point two. Fan demand alone isn't the whole story. And never will be for DLC. The fact he's popular worldwide, is an iconic Mario character, and they're aware when he's not in a game you'd expect him to be in, there would be complaints? They're aware of his absence from Mario Kart 7 being a problem. He hasn't missed a spin-off since(unless that spin-off had an extremely small roster). Diddy Kong was used less in Mario Kart than him since, and he's an even bigger character in terms of story importance. Waluigi's popularity is well beyond the games, as memes were created by the fans because of how much they love him.

Sounds like a winning business decision to me. He will sell. What more do they need? Is it going to be their first choice? Probably not. There's still a ton of new series to promote, ones they might think will sell better, or could be third party-related, etc.

Heres a thought. If Masterchief was added as a Mii Costume in the Final Wave, would he be a Swordfighter using the Beam Sword or a Gunner using a random gun?

The Beam Sword is the most iconic Halo weapon, but it just feels right to make Chief a gunner given Halos general gameplay.
Probably Gunner.

Smash Puppy explained the other good scenarios, though.
 

warubyun

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naw i dont think he does. what spirits does he bring, what stage, music, ect? the fact that immediately you went to MARIO spin-offs for content says a lot. waluigi has less to offer than most other mario secondary characters. being an internet meme doesnt mean he has lore to bring.
Mario spin-offs are where Waluigi is playable, so where else would you go? Same goes for the vast majority of other available Mario characters, too, since they don't have their own games either. Captain Toad being a notable exception, I suppose.

There is no Mario Party or Mario Sports stage, and these games still have an abundance of music not yet in Smash. While spirits would be trickier, I think it would be doable, but still the weakest part of a Waluigi challenger pack, admittedly. But somehow I have the impression that the spirit board is considered the least interesting part of any challenger pack, anyway.
 

SKX31

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Like I always say: every video game character has at least one person who unironically wants them in Smash. Even the bad ones.
:teemo: .png

I'm waiting for my Techies emote, damn it! :roll:

Heres a thought. If Masterchief was added as a Mii Costume in the Final Wave, would he be a Swordfighter using the Beam Sword or a Gunner using a random gun?

The Beam Sword is the most iconic Halo weapon, but it just feels right to make Chief a gunner given Halos general gameplay.
Leaning towards Gunner. In addition to what's been previously said: a kinda consistent criteria for Mii costumes have been if the characters are primarily associated with a certain weapon. Of course, this is no hard fast rule per se, but it's still a noticeable trend overall when looking at the entire list of costumes.

I would have said previously that Swordfighter doesn't exactly suit the Halo gameplay... buuuut there are quite a few Miis that don't fight like the moveset implies (Dante and Altaïr for Swordfighter, arguably Bomberman for Brawler) so that point is moot anyhow.
 
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The Rhythm Theif

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Heres a thought. If Masterchief was added as a Mii Costume in the Final Wave, would he be a Swordfighter using the Beam Sword or a Gunner using a random gun?

The Beam Sword is the most iconic Halo weapon, but it just feels right to make Chief a gunner given Halos general gameplay.
Most likely it'll be as a gunner.
 
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