Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Theguy123]

I’m not one for usually using tournaments for deconfirming but I do think the 2010+ tournament probabaly deconfirms a rep that’s from 2010 or onwards.

We had the 1980’s tournament which indicated the next character wasn’t from that year and then we got byleth who was from the year 2017

Then we got the 1990 and 2000 tournament back to back literally which implied the next character was from the 2010’s and onwards which we ended up getting min min, Steve and pyra/myphra

The 2010+ tournament was deliberately held of till min min, Steve and pyra/myphra was revealed so the chances are a 2010+ rep is not happening.

 

[CannonStreak]

Is it wrong that I want to see Raz from Psychonauts playable in a Smash Bros. game, even though we all know he is technically a Microsoft character, and there are other Microsoft characters who have a higher chance of getting in before him?

 

[Sucumbio]

We are the final character and our power is shocking twists.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We are the final character and our power is shocking twists.

Pichu is already in the game. Can't get more shocking than that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well it's not like a basic Demo is required, it wasn't for Greninja, and he's going to be working closely with the Atlus devs in order to bring this character to life anyway. But that's assuming they go the SMT5 route.

Well, Greninja was also a Pokémon with a very visible theming. It isn't hard to take concept art of the Pokémon and it's signature move(s) and make a fitting moveset for it since all you need is to make something ninjaey. The same goes for Incineroar and its heel wrestling shtick. It also helps that most Pokémon have their mannerisms based off of their design or lore, which is how we got Lucario and Jigglypuff's personalities; Neither Pokémon really acted like they do in Super Smash Bros. before they were added, but it fits anyway.

For most other games, characters are tied to the needs of their game's story and gameplay, which can cause them to radically shift throughout development, or even exist in an unfinished state until the game is in the balancing stages.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

FE3H was originally intended for the 3DS

No it wasn’t.

 

[Shroob]

Although I doubt heavily Naho will be the final character, it's been said before, but the "Summoning" aspect would be incredibly cool, and something new to Smash that would be new to it, but old hat to other, more traditional fighting games.



Characters like Rosalina and Incineroar, despite not being traditional fighting game characters, brought mechanics over from those kinda games that didn't really exist in Smash at that point.


Rosalina is a "Puppet-fighter", like Carl in Blazblue, where she has a 2nd hitbox that follows her movements that she needs to manage to play optimally.

Incineroar is a straight up grappler like Zangief, which Smash had never had before up to that point.


Nahobino having a "summoning" gimmick would be more or less unique to him, and only vaguely covered in Smash through the likes of Olimar and Bowser Jr, but neither really do a good job at being a "Summoner"-type fighter, with Olimar's Pikmin basically being nothing more than extended hitboxes, and Bowser Jr. only having a single move. No, Pokemon Trainer does not fit under this umbrella.

 

[Ivander]

We are the final character and our power is shocking twists.

Imagine if we end up getting an Avatar player character from an MMO game and somehow we can actually use a created character(albeit with fixed proportions) from that MMO game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, Greninja was also a Pokémon with a very visible theming. It isn't hard to take concept art of the Pokémon and it's signature move(s) and make a fitting moveset for it since all you need is to make something ninjaey. The same goes for Incineroar and its heel wrestling shtick. It also helps that most Pokémon have their mannerisms based off of their design or lore, which is how we got Lucario and Jigglypuff's personalities; Neither Pokémon really acted like they do in Super Smash Bros. before they were added, but it fits anyway.

For most other games, characters are tied to the needs of their game's story and gameplay, which can cause them to radically shift throughout development, or even exist in an unfinished state until the game is in the balancing stages.

Actually, this might be why the last two have been starters; They're simply the ones they work to finalize first on top of being guaranteed to be important to the games.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

I’m not one for usually using tournaments for deconfirming but I do think the 2010+ tournament probabaly deconfirms a rep that’s from 2010 or onwards.

We had the 1980’s tournament which indicated the next character wasn’t from that year and then we got byleth who was from the year 2017

Then we got the 1990 and 2000 tournament back to back literally which implied the next character was from the 2010’s and onwards which we ended up getting min min, Steve and pyra/myphra

The 2010+ tournament was deliberately held of till min min, Steve and pyra/myphra was revealed so the chances are a 2010+ rep is not happening.

No, it means the character the character won’t come from 2010-2019(eliminating Pokémon and Breath of the Wild once again).

2020 and 2021 are fine.

 

[FreeFox]

SMT5 however was announced at the literal first Switch premier, and considering the game comes out in a few months, and was in a very good state when shown late last year, I think more work's been done on it than we realize.


Hell, we knew the MC from the very first trailer, albeit only from behind.

Yeah. I was the the longest game on development hell on the switch. Now time will tell if Metroid Prime 5 or Digimon Survive will take its place.

 

[Theguy123]

No, it means the character the character won’t come from 2010-2019(eliminating Pokémon and Breath of the Wild once again).

2020 and 2021 are fine.

A 2020 rep or 2021 probably isn’t happening anyways as well since their games were probably too late into development when the pass was decided on.

Byleth alone was hard for sakurai to get in pass 1. Didn’t he have to use a unfinished build of 3H or something like that to get a feel for byleth.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No, that's not even remotely true. FE3H was originally intended for the 3DS, but was bumped up to a Switch title later on. The game was in development longer than SMT5 was

Citation needed, only time I heard this was from a known fraud who made **** up for attention so I'd like a solid source

Is it wrong that I want to see Raz from Psychonauts playable in a Smash Bros. game, even though we all know he is technically a Microsoft character, and there are other Microsoft characters who have a higher chance of getting in before him?

Yes, how dare you want a character you like? I swear, people these days...

 

[GilTheGreat19]

No, that's not even remotely true. FE3H was originally intended for the 3DS, but was bumped up to a Switch title later on. The game was in development longer than SMT5 was

Wait I've never heard this before..
Source?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's an interesting thought: If every generation was in the same position as Generation 4 in terms of getting a character (newest generation, but old enough to have more/all of its Pokémon finalized), what would they get?

Obviously Generation 1 and 4 would get what they have now, but Generation 2 was only able to get a clone, so that answer wouldn't necessarily be Pichu. Generations 3, 5, and 8 would actually get a character, and Generations 6 and 7 might not have gotten a starter (though they had big plans for Greninja so they may have gone for it anyway).

 

[pupNapoleon]

I mean

Demon summoning.


I don't think it'll happen, but this is a series like Pokemon, except think what if Pokemon Trainer was fighting alongside his Pokemon instead of just being a background asset.


Shin Megami Tensei 5 already has been confirmed to have 210+ demons, that's a lot to work with to build a moveset off of.

That might be true- but majority of the support I have seen for the character, simply states things like "cool aesthetic, can use elementals...." and completely disregards the rest.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Y'all should note something

Nintendo COULD want to keep the final roster up to date with as recent of characters as possible. They pulled it off with Corrin in Smash 4, and as of the time this message has been written, Byleth is our "newest" fighter by year of origin. We could get a fighter even "younger" than Byleth.

 

[Shroob]

That might be true- but majority of the support I have seen for the character, simply states things like "cool aesthetic, can use elementals...." and completely disregards the rest.

I mean, that's just surface level support.

Considering how closely Sakurai likes to emulate the actual gameplay of said character's game in their moveset, demon summoning would almost assuredly be 100% included in his moveset, it's MUCH more important than Persona swapping imo, since in Persona, you really only ever need 1 Persona, likewise, your demons ARE your party members, and because they don't really scale all too well with levels, you're constantly having to swap them out and make entirely new strategies with what you have.


There's more to Naho than "Blue-haired anime sword", I assure you. I'd honestly look more into the 210+ demons that are going to be recruitable in SMTV than him, tbh.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Oh snap, MattX20 you were right. Bravo

3 Houses' Wikipedia page, plus source, everyone:
"The team originally planned for Three Houses to be another 3DS title. This was scrapped when production began on Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia, resulting in Three Houses being briefly put on hold.When the team learned of the Nintendo Switch, they decided to make the game for home consoles."

Translation from the following Famistu column:

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201908/06180699.html

"『FE if』を発売したあたりのタイミングから、本作の構想を練り始めていました。最初は、もう1本ニンテンドー3DSで新作を作ろうかと考えていたのですが、それより先に『FE Echoesもうひとりの英雄王』を作ることに決めて、いったん新作の開発を止めていたのです"
"From the timing when "FE if" was released, I started to formulate the concept of this work. At first, I was thinking about making another new work with Nintendo 3DS, but before that I decided to make "FE Echoes Another Hero King" and stopped developing the new work once. is."

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, that's just surface level support.

Considering how closely Sakurai likes to emulate the actual gameplay of said character's game in their moveset, demon summoning would almost assuredly be 100% included in his moveset, it's MUCH more important than Persona swapping imo, since in Persona, you really only ever need 1 Persona, likewise, your demons ARE your party members, and because they don't really scale all too well with levels, you're constantly having to swap them out and make entirely new strategies with what you have.


There's more to Naho than "Blue-haired anime sword", I assure you. I'd honestly look more into the 210+ demons that are going to be recruitable in SMTV than him, tbh.

Actually, since Rex & Pyra/Mythra was impossible, it's decently likely that Nahobino would just be an anime swordsman because a summoning mechanic would be too much for the system.

 

[Shroob]

Actually, since Rex & Pyra/Mythra was impossible, it's decently likely that Nahobino would just be an anime swordsman because a summoning mechanic would be too much for the system.

Depends imo.

Wasn't the reason given behind R+P as opposed to the IC's that they'd be too intensive for the switch?


I imagine that demon summoning would work more akin to Pokeball or Assists, where you have one at a time for a set amount of time, and Pokeballs/Assists are fine even in 8 player smash.

 

[MattX20]

Citation needed, only time I heard this was from a known fraud who made **** up for attention so I'd like a solid source


Yes, how dare you want a character you like? I swear, people these days...

Wait I've never heard this before..
Source?

Here are sources that confirm the title was originally intended for the 3DS https://www.famitsu.com/news/201908/06180699.html https://www.famitsu.com/news/201908/06180699.html https://www.4gamer.net/games/423/G042326/20190716108/

 

[Double0Groove]

Well, Greninja was also a Pokémon with a very visible theming. It isn't hard to take concept art of the Pokémon and it's signature move(s) and make a fitting moveset for it since all you need is to make something ninjaey. The same goes for Incineroar and its heel wrestling shtick. It also helps that most Pokémon have their mannerisms based off of their design or lore, which is how we got Lucario and Jigglypuff's personalities; Neither Pokémon really acted like they do in Super Smash Bros. before they were added, but it fits anyway.

For most other games, characters are tied to the needs of their game's story and gameplay, which can cause them to radically shift throughout development, or even exist in an unfinished state until the game is in the balancing stages.

Fair, but this explanation simplifies the process of a character's inclusion to the roster. Rarely is it ever up to Sakurai's discretion to portray a character based on his own experience with the main game. Especially with 3rd party characters, where devs and property holders are more involved with the process to ensure that their characters are portrayed as faithfully as possible.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Here are sources that confirm the title was originally intended for the 3DS https://www.famitsu.com/news/201908/06180699.html https://www.famitsu.com/news/201908/06180699.html https://www.4gamer.net/games/423/G042326/20190716108/

Those too..
I posted some stuff on my last post up above as well, the WikiPedia page for the game laid the info out nicely, alongside its evidence being the Famitsu columns we dug up.

 

[FreeFox]

Depends imo.

Wasn't the reason given behind R+P as opposed to the IC's that they'd be too intensive for the switch?


I imagine that demon summoning would work more akin to Pokeball or Assists, where you have one at a time for a set amount of time, and Pokeballs/Assists are fine even in 8 player smash.

I actually remember a really cool concept made for a Pokemon character on Mugen. Something like that could be translate well for a unique gameplay mechanic for Nahobino. Pokemon Trainer May:

 

[Double0Groove]

Although I doubt heavily Naho will be the final character, it's been said before, but the "Summoning" aspect would be incredibly cool, and something new to Smash that would be new to it, but old hat to other, more traditional fighting games.



Characters like Rosalina and Incineroar, despite not being traditional fighting game characters, brought mechanics over from those kinda games that didn't really exist in Smash at that point.


Rosalina is a "Puppet-fighter", like Carl in Blazblue, where she has a 2nd hitbox that follows her movements that she needs to manage to play optimally.

Incineroar is a straight up grappler like Zangief, which Smash had never had before up to that point.


Nahobino having a "summoning" gimmick would be more or less unique to him, and only vaguely covered in Smash through the likes of Olimar and Bowser Jr, but neither really do a good job at being a "Summoner"-type fighter, with Olimar's Pikmin basically being nothing more than extended hitboxes, and Bowser Jr. only having a single move. No, Pokemon Trainer does not fit under this umbrella.

Wait, what about Zelda?

 

[Shroob]

Wait, what about Zelda?

Same as Bowser Jr. imo

One move which doesn't really encapsulate the gimmick when 99% of her kit is completely divorced from it.


As someone like Rosalina, you need Luma to go off, and Incineroar is all about getting up close and grabbing.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Depends imo.

Wasn't the reason given behind R+P as opposed to the IC's that they'd be too intensive for the switch?


I imagine that demon summoning would work more akin to Pokeball or Assists, where you have one at a time for a set amount of time, and Pokeballs/Assists are fine even in 8 player smash.

It definitely depends on a few different factors, but he would probably be locked to summoning only one demon at once, and only ones with less polygons required to represent them.

Keep in mind, Pokéballs and Assist Trophies have lower quality models, and any character mechanics have to work while the most intensive items and such are going off. The last part is probably where Rex & Pyra/Mythra had issues.

Fair, but this explanation simplifies the process of a character's inclusion to the roster. Rarely is it ever up to Sakurai's discretion to portray a character based on his own experience with the main game. Especially with 3rd party characters, where devs and property holders are more involved with the process to ensure that their characters are portrayed as faithfully as possible.

Um...You kind of have to play the game to become intimately familiar with it to the point where you can add in as much attention to detail as Super Smash Bros. does. Even for Byleth's pretty surface level "screw it, all weapons" moveset, he played through an early developer build of the game.

3rd Party rights holders are involved, and they can help by providing resources, but for the most part, Sakurai is the ideas guy. That's who he was hired to be. The 3rd party rights holders are mostly there to add constraints like "they must have X and can't do Y".

 

[pupNapoleon]

I actually remember a really cool concept made for a Pokemon character on Mugen. Something like that could be translate well for a unique gameplay mechanic for Nahobino. Pokemon Trainer May:

That would be a more helpful example if we saw the Pokemon do even a single thing in it.

 

[Shroob]

It definitely depends on a few different factors, but he would probably be locked to summoning only one demon at once, and only ones with less polygons required to represent them.

Keep in mind, Pokéballs and Assist Trophies have lower quality models, and any character mechanics have to work while the most intensive items and such are going off. The last part is probably where Rex & Pyra/Mythra had issues.


Um...You kind of have to play the game to become intimately familiar with it to the point where you can add in as much attention to detail as Super Smash Bros. does. Even for Byleth's pretty surface level "screw it, all weapons" moveset, he played through an early developer build of the game.

3rd Party rights holders are involved, and they can help by providing resources, but for the most part, Sakurai is the ideas guy. That's who he was hired to be. The 3rd party rights holders are mostly there to add constraints like "they must have X and can't do Y".

Which is fine, because frankly, a lot of the most popular and iconic demons are really not the most well detailed.


I wouldn't look at demons like Jack Frost, Pyro Jack or Mothman and say those are super-detailed.

Now granted, obviously **** like Beelzebub or Mother Harlot would probably be no-gos since they have a ton of details, but a lot of times, the most popular tend to be smaller-in-size demons.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

No
Must not say it
MUST NOT SAY IT
MUST NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT
AMMMMMM-

Bottom text

 

[PSIGuy]

Actually, since Rex & Pyra/Mythra was impossible, it's decently likely that Nahobino would just be an anime swordsman because a summoning mechanic would be too much for the system.

Rex & Pyra/Mythra were an Ice Climbers style character where each half was different. Saying that there's no way of executing a summoner character that wouldn't suffer from the same problems (such as loading 16 high quality fighter models in a single battle where half of them can swap out) seems like a stretch. A summon could be treated more like Luma, or a Pikmin, or an assist trophy. They could be tied to specific moves like Zelda's Phantom Guardian or add to the moveset like Arsene does.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh snap, MattX20 you were right. Bravo

3 Houses' Wikipedia page, plus source, everyone:
"The team originally planned for Three Houses to be another 3DS title. This was scrapped when production began on Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia, resulting in Three Houses being briefly put on hold.When the team learned of the Nintendo Switch, they decided to make the game for home consoles."

Translation from the following Famistu column:

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201908/06180699.html

"『FE if』を発売したあたりのタイミングから、本作の構想を練り始めていました。最初は、もう1本ニンテンドー3DSで新作を作ろうかと考えていたのですが、それより先に『FE Echoesもうひとりの英雄王』を作ることに決めて、いったん新作の開発を止めていたのです"
"From the timing when "FE if" was released, I started to formulate the concept of this work. At first, I was thinking about making another new work with Nintendo 3DS, but before that I decided to make "FE Echoes Another Hero King" and stopped developing the new work once. is."

Here are sources that confirm the title was originally intended for the 3DS https://www.famitsu.com/news/201908/06180699.html https://www.famitsu.com/news/201908/06180699.html https://www.4gamer.net/games/423/G042326/20190716108/

Thanks, I think I mixed it up with a different bull**** claim then

Which is fine, because frankly, a lot of the most popular and iconic demons are really not the most well detailed.


I wouldn't look at demons like Jack Frost, Pyro Jack or Mothman and say those are super-detailed.

Now granted, obviously **** like Beelzebub or Mother Harlot would probably be no-gos since they have a ton of details, but a lot of times, the most popular tend to be smaller-in-size demons.

I mean, I can think if another reason Mother Harlot wouldn't be allowed tbh. Though a summoner character woukd be hella fun, my mind goes straight to Jack-O Guilty Gear who could fill the entire goddamn screen with small minions lmao

 

[FreeFox]

That would be a more helpful example if we saw the Pokemon do even a single thing in it.

Here is another. In thisone, the pokemon act more:

 

[Garteam]

Q. What is the character you want for the very last DLC of Smash Ultimate?

2. Bandana Waddle Dee - 174 votes

I'm not gonna lie, this made my day.

I still don't think there's any character who has been as consistently requested throughout Smash Ultimate as Bandana Waddle Dee. It's crazy to see him still getting lots of votes on fan polls when virtually every option for the base game (other than maybe Waluigi) has generally lost steam.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

View attachment 324288
Bottom text

I hate you.

Thanks, I think I mixed it up with a different bull**** claim then

All good.

 

[PeridotGX]

This whole conversation about Sakurai choosing Joker and Terry lead me to thinking... those two would be the obvious ones, given how much praise he has given them both. Is there a third series he has said has heavily informed Smash, that could potentially be his third pick and the final character?

it's time

don't bother looking for sources, i can assure you that this is very real and only coincidentally supports my MW.

 

[Shroob]

I do think this discussion brings up a good talking point:


In that as much as people may groan and moan about Byleth, Byleth's inclusion is important.



Smash is going on 4 years old at this point, but even when it launched, we had a whopping 0 Switch-Era characters, MAYBE 1 if you stretch Link's re-design, and like, 3 stages from Switch-era games.


Byleth's inclusion helps make Smash not feel soo "Dated", being from the newest released game at this point, and Pythra and Min-Min help add to this.


Which makes Naho discussion soo interesting since, while SMTV isn't out yet, if nothing else, he would definitely help not date Ultimate super hard, being a 2021 release and all.

 

[SNEKeater]

I haven't been confident in much throughout speculation, but... I don't think we're getting Nahobino or Demi-fiend or any other MegaTen character.

My reasoning: we already got Joker, and I can't see them going for two characters from the same third-party series, or even from closely-related third-party series. It'd be like if we got Terry and then got Kyo in pass 2.

Not the same at all.

SMT and Persona as stated multiple times aren't from the same series. And no, Joker doesn't count as SMT representation even if you consider Persona a SMT spin-off (which isn't true and in any case, it's a spin-off from the larger Megami Tensei family).

Joker literally brought 0 SMT content unless him having a few spells originated from SMT in his moveset (Tetrakarn and Makarakarn) is enough to say SMT is represented in Smash, which obviously isn't the case.

Also, the Terry/Kyo example doesn't really work here. Terry is a Fatal Fury and KoF character. Kyo is only a KoF character. Terry is technically a Fatal Fury rep in Smash. But as we all know there's plenty of SNK content beyond Fatal Fury, including a Kyo cameo and tons of KoF music.

KoF has content in Smash, while SMT doesn't. If Joker had brought with him SMT spirits and music, I'd agree that a SMT character is an unlikely option.
But we're not in that scenario.

In any case, considering Joker as a SMT representative doesn't make sense. That would be like saying Mario reps Donkey Kong well enough and that we don't need Donkey Kong.

 

[Merengue]

There isn’t a relevant 1st party left other than maybe Metroid, and Metroid has all of its relevant characters in Smash aside from the Prime characters(which wouldn’t be the pick to go with Dread).

Even if Pokémon didn’t have a spirit event there is no way they would use the last slot for Pokémon and bury SMT V for the holidays when they come out a week apart.

What if Mother comes out? Their games are still not on the switch for whatever reason even though they know the demand for it.