Idon
Smash Legend
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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II
- Thread starter Cyn
- Start date
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Dan Quixote
Smash Lord
That Erdrick item idea actually sounds incredible, and it would be a great reference to how a lot of DQ games are about going to collect certain pieces of equipment.
Imagine? Like a FE gun that shoots random FE half tiers.
clink :O Bastian! Yay! He can Hazzah us to death!
Ivander
Smash Legend
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Actually, if Breidablik gets in, the necessity has to be that 3 of the heroes that it can summon have to be Raigh, Bartre and Wrys.
That aside, looking at the amount of Assist Trophies and Pokeball Pokemon in Smash Ultimate, 56 Heroes would look like a good number of Breidablik, so there would be 14 Heroes for each Color Orb(Red, Green, Blue and Colorless/White). The other option would be 52(with 13 for each) or 48 Heroes(with 12 each).
That aside, looking at the amount of Assist Trophies and Pokeball Pokemon in Smash Ultimate, 56 Heroes would look like a good number of Breidablik, so there would be 14 Heroes for each Color Orb(Red, Green, Blue and Colorless/White). The other option would be 52(with 13 for each) or 48 Heroes(with 12 each).
UltimateCyborgOverlord
Smash Champion
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- 2,128
To quote Sr Pelo hahaha with Mokey and his Math
"You might have a brrrrain, BUT I HAVE A GUN!"
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
Er, why? In October it will have been 22 months of continuous Ultimate support.
Perkilator
Smash Legend
Because there might need to be occasional patches, if needed. Plus, what if they want to do at least 2 more Spirit Events before wrapping up for good?
ARandomZoomer
Smash Apprentice
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- Dec 3, 2018
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- 141
That Okami stage seems to be missing some constellations thoughI'm sorry to sound like a broken record, but PMEX has a crazy stage roster. some are mementos-esque variants of eachother, some are ported from other smash games, but there's still enough new stages to make it hype (and obviously it's only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to stage mods). Here are some highlights...
![Mushroom Gorge [Super Smash Bros. Brawl] [Mods]](https://images.gamebanana.com/img/ss/mods/5fbd9b09251f6.jpg)
there's also a really cool Goldenrod City stage, but I don't think there's a good picture of it online.
Professor Pumpkaboo
Lady Layton| Trap Queen♥
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And the platforms are FARR too apart
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
I'm on a computer that can actually run PM, here it is. It's a travelling stage.
The graphics aren't perfect, but as someone who's first Pokemon game was HGSS I adore it, 10/10.
yeah, that version of Hakami Village isnt quite the same as the PMEX version, it's probably an early build. Here's the current one (the top platform is like smashville)
(mods, feel free to merge these posts
CommanderZaktan
Smash Ace
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- 957
Xenoblade: Core Crystals
Final Fantasy: Magic Materia
Splatoon: Autobomb
Persona: Megido Bomb
Dragon Quest: Tangleweb
Banjo Kazooie: A bird from the multiplayer that shoots Golden Eggs
Minecraft: Crossbow
Also, inspired by this, what about Assist trophies from the Fighter Pass, aside from Arms? Here's mine:
Persona 5: Futaba aka Oracle
Dragon Quest: Great Sabrecat
Banjo Kazooie: Mumbo Jumbo
Fatal Fury: Ryo Sakazaki
Fire Emblem Three Houses: Death Knight
Minecraft: Creeper
FF7: Tifa
Xenoblade 2: Tora with Poppi
Tekken: Heihachi Mishima
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Rie Sonomura
fly octo fly
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Persona 5: Oracle
Dragon Quest: Jessica (VIII)
Banjo Kazooie: Gruntilda
SNK: Iori Yagami
FE3H: frick it Gatekeeper
Minecraft: Creeper
Final Fantasy VII: Aerith
Xenoblade 2: THE ZEKENATOR, CHAOTIC BRINGER OF CHAOS
Tekken: mah gurl Lili. or maybe Alisa Bosconovitch
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cashregister9
Smash Hero
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- Apr 4, 2020
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- 8,694
Persona 5: Jose
Dragon Quest: Dragon lord
Banjo Kazooie: Mumbo Jumbo
Fatal Fury: Iori
Fire Emblem Three Houses: Kronya
Minecraft: Pillager Raid
FF7: Barret
Xenoblade 2: Jin
Tekken: Kuma
kylexv
Smash Master
Pic of the Day:
Super Mario Sunshine Released today in 2002! This was Bowser Jr.'s first appearance. It may be the toughest 3D Mario game. In Smash, not only Bowser Jr. but also Mario's FLUDD and Delfino Plaza are included.
2002年のきょう『スーパーマリオサンシャイン』(Super Mario Sunshine)発売!!
— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 19, 2021
クッパJr.のデビュー作｡3Dマリオの中ではもっとも手強い作品かも｡
スマブラでは､クッパJr.はもちろん､ポンプやドルピックタウンも入っています｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/V5WhMru7bf
Super Mario Sunshine Released today in 2002! This was Bowser Jr.'s first appearance. It may be the toughest 3D Mario game. In Smash, not only Bowser Jr. but also Mario's FLUDD and Delfino Plaza are included.
Last edited:
FreeFox
Smash Lord
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- Oct 26, 2018
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- 1,510
Pachinko machine, the secret lilypad level with the 8 red coins.
screams internally
subterrestrial
Smash Ace
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flashbacks to all the pre-sm4sh bowser jr. predictions
literally everyone expected him to wield his paintbrush
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
ZelDan
Smash Master
Don't forget about Corona Mountain and the ****ty controlling boat.
Second worst thing to have the name Corona attached to it in existance.
Second worst thing to have the name Corona attached to it in existance.
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but Clown Car Bowser Jr is an infinitely more interesting idea than Paintbrush Bowser Jr.
Ivander
Smash Legend
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I'm waiting for someone to say the watermelon mission is not hard and post that video where someone used the physics to send the watermelon flying straight to the grinder in seconds...Don't forget the horror.
pupNapoleon
Smash Hero
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ASSIST TROPHIES:
I'd also add in many others, though:
Dixie Kong, all FOUR Champions- separately, Impa, Team Rocket, Captain Toad, Bandana Waddle Dee, Chibi Robo, Lip, Excite Biker, Andy, Dragaux, Chorus Kids
...basically, every Nintendo character I want. Plus... all the others I'd want.
Frogger, Crash, Spyro, Lara Croft, Tracer, Portal guy, Jonesy, Red Angry Bird, Ryu Hayabusa, Rayman, Ezio, Warcraft Ogre,
So maybe this list was useless.
Let's try harder.
The Pikmin Flower housing ship- which would send out Pikmin drones near it, to attack opponents.
King Boo- who would alternate between painting trappings, minion Boos, and paralyzing licks. Could also phase.
Professor E Gadd- whatever inventions are left
Kirby Animal Friends
Cranky Kong; DK Jr
Vaati, Lynel, Guardian, King Hippo, Kamek, Poochy, Brewster, DJ Octavius
I think the Pokeball is only in as a way to showcase more of the most popular franchise...because it was in first... and because it is so prominent of a thing in the series. Also, Pokemon cannot be KOd, if I recall.
But how would an AT item just for FE be different?
- Joker: Jack Frost
- Hero: I don't know enough
- Banjo and Kazooie: I agree, Gruntilda would be perfect. She could even just have a new rhyme for each character, and be an AT Codec. Yet, Mumbo would also be an incredibly fun way to turn people into other things- it could just be the alt form with a head attached of the character, to make it easier.
- Terry: That girl with the Bird
- Byleth: A Pegasus
- Min Min: Twintelle
- Steve: True Enderman
- Sephiroth: I agree with Tifa
- Pythra: A place to add Rex
- Kazuya: Yoshimitsu, though my favorite would be Roger/Alex or Gon
I'd also add in many others, though:
Dixie Kong, all FOUR Champions- separately, Impa, Team Rocket, Captain Toad, Bandana Waddle Dee, Chibi Robo, Lip, Excite Biker, Andy, Dragaux, Chorus Kids
...basically, every Nintendo character I want. Plus... all the others I'd want.
Frogger, Crash, Spyro, Lara Croft, Tracer, Portal guy, Jonesy, Red Angry Bird, Ryu Hayabusa, Rayman, Ezio, Warcraft Ogre,
So maybe this list was useless.
Let's try harder.
The Pikmin Flower housing ship- which would send out Pikmin drones near it, to attack opponents.
King Boo- who would alternate between painting trappings, minion Boos, and paralyzing licks. Could also phase.
Professor E Gadd- whatever inventions are left
Kirby Animal Friends
Cranky Kong; DK Jr
Vaati, Lynel, Guardian, King Hippo, Kamek, Poochy, Brewster, DJ Octavius
But then I must ask... how would it be different from an Assist Trophy?
I think the Pokeball is only in as a way to showcase more of the most popular franchise...because it was in first... and because it is so prominent of a thing in the series. Also, Pokemon cannot be KOd, if I recall.
But how would an AT item just for FE be different?
I don't understand this at all, but I approve of Ducks.Don't forget the horror.
You're forgetting about the Beer.
For SURE. I hated the idea of Bowser Jr at first. Then, add the mech, give it 8 alts, and he became one of my favorite added characters.
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SnowClaws
Smash Apprentice
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- 199
Sorry, for a late response
, I hesitant on whether to give out an answer since I am not that familiar with the Tekken gameplay mechanic. I am actually more interested in the backstories of Tekken, so to answer your question, I did some heavy reading and watches a few videos to get a idea. The answer I reach is that Jin is most likely going to be a pseudo-clone of Kazuya , with no Devil Gene power. In fact, one of Jin's playstyle is called pseudo-Mishima where Jin uses the following moves to reenact a Mishima playstyle: Crouch Dash, Electric Wind God Fist, Front Thrust Kick, Left Splits Kick, Demon's Paw, and Low Trick Kick (a substitute to the spin kick).The first part: Gameplay standpoint
According to the experts in Tekken 7, Jin is a well round character, a jack of all stats or a master of none with a good mobility.
- Pros: His punishment is good, he has the broken parry in the game, he can do a Mishima crouch dash + a jump after dashing, and his Wind Hook Fist/Electric Wind Hook Fist is a much better variation than the Electric Wind God Fist. Due to various stances, he can played as a counter heavy, evasive and defensive fighter.
Stances:
1) Power Stance: Jin's special stance power ups his spirit and intensifies his next attack (from Project x Zone 2 skills description).
2) Mental Alertness (2): Jin goes into a unique low stance to unleash a variety of counters (from PxZ2 skills description).
Counterattacks: Left Drill Attack, Spine Cracker, Spine Striker (Season 3 DLC), Swaying Willow, Halberd Heel, Right Sweep (2), Joudan Tsukiage Niren, and Leaping Side Kick.
3) Zenshin: Jin's stance can cancel strikes, allowing him to chain longer combos together (from PxZ2 skills description). Able to use MA(2) counterattacks, but cannot be cancelled from a forward dash motion.
Moves that can transition into the Zenshin stance: Twin Lancer and Front Thrust Kick.
- Cons: His combo string is a hit or miss, the attack damage is weak, and his attack range is very limited as it can easily whiff or miss the opponent.
The first part (2): Smash moveset
To translate the idea of Jin being in Smash, I think Jin should be a pseudo-clone, not a echo. In particular, I think Jin will share many similarities with Kazuya like having a crouch dash, electric fist, air attacks, punch or kick attacks, a comeback mechanic in the form of Rage/Rage Art, and command inputs for hidden moves. The difference between the two, is that Jin will uses multiple karate stances in his arsenal, a different set of special and throwing moves, a broken parry, and a different Final Smash from Kazuya. Jin will obviously not have the Devil Gene move(s) into his moveset, unless it is his Final Smash or potential gimmick. Besides these traits, I think Jin can have a average Shoto-like stat, a slightly better jumping mobility than Kazuya, but his attack damage would be weak and maybe his attack range retain the whole hit or miss timing.
Now I going to list out each of Jin's possible moves and there will be some similarities of Kazuya's moves. With each moves looking similar to one and another in terms of their interaction, but having a different names to underscore their difference. I had to re-watch Sakurai's presentation to pinpoint the accuracy where each moves are and placed them in the moveset. Also, I cross-examine Jin's moveset and Kazuya's moveset from Tekken 7, and what moves match each other directional command inputs as a potential base for Jin's Smash move.
Rage:
The Rage mechanic will function like Kazuya where there is a 1.1 attack multiplier and a Rage Drive. Jin's Rage Drive is actually a combination of several moves starting from a Crouch Dash into a Electric Wind Hook Fist, then a Thrusting Uppercut to a Mental Alertness (2)/Zenshin stance for a Leaping Side Kick, and ending it with a Corpse Thrust. Seeing these moves together is the big difference from Kazuya's Rage Drive being only a single grab move. Next part is trying to place the activation method; Kazuya's Rage Drive is three, so maybe three conditions as well.
1.) If Jin is in a crouch position while slowly standing up and the A button is timed correctly, then Rage Drive is activated and replaces Crouching Uppercut. This method removes the Crouch Dash portion at the beginning and begin at the EWHF section.
2.) Jin initiate MA (2) or Z stance, then input LSK, and Rage Drive is activated. From there the Crouch Dash, EWHF and TU are removed, and the moment LSK is used, a special blue visual effect surround Jin to indicate this is a Rage Drive. Less damages than the first method.
3.) Crouch Dash into Wind Hook Fist or Thrusting Uppercut, then Rage Drive is activated. A command input version activation similar to the one used in Kazuya's Rage Drive by replacing Dragon Uppercut.
Same weakness as Kazuya's Rage, though it relied on the opponent being hit with no shield rather than being grab.
B moves:
Jin's B moves are obviously going to be different from Kazuya as it relied more on his Fighting Stance rather than the usage of Devil Gene.
1.) Neutral B: Avenger, a simple charge B move where Jin can either cancel the move or charge all the way to unleash a super punch. A easy move that Kirby can uses instead of a stance change special.
2.) Side B: Mental Alertness (2) / Zenshin (depending on the direction).
MA(2) is a low stance change that allow Jin to do a small backstep while Zenshin is a variation of MA(2) where Jin steps forward instead. Both stance execute the same counterattack depending on the input. Zenshin cannot be cancelled from a forward dash motion. To not confuse MA(2) with Z, Z will be given a red visual effect.
Counterattacks: Left Drill Attack, Spine Cracker, Spine Striker (Season 3 DLC), Swaying Willow, Halberd Heel, Right Sweep (2), Joudan Tsukiage Niren, and Leaping Side Kick.
Maybe not all of these counterattacks will be in Smash, and only a few select one will be used instead. While in the air, there is no backstep or forward step and instead Jin strike the pose, and some counterattacks will work in the air. It is useful in One vs One due to auto turning, but tricky to use in multiplayer.
3.) Up B: Double Lift Kick, a simple upward recovery.
4.) Down B: Power Stance, a small invulnerability protection from attacks or grab. If the opponent is in close range of PS before the animation is finished, the opponent could be hit and briefly stun with no damage. However, if the move hits the opponent while the animation isn't finished, then Jin will not gain Ki Power surrounding his hand. The PS animation has to be complete without hitting the opponent, and once the condition is met, Jin will gain Ki Power for a couple of second.
Ki Power (from Tekken wiki):
5.) Final Smash: Rage Art, a lunging punch into a series of jabs and end it with a powerful right punch. This was used as Jin's super in The King of Fighters: All-Star game.
Standard A:
1). Neutral A: 10 Hit Combo, same thing as Kazuya, just with a Jin's variation. Same input, the player can either continue to tap or hold the A button to execute the move. Same weakness where the opponent can block the last hit of the combo move.
Command inputs with directional stick:
1.) ->->A: Left Axe Kick, a counterpart to Left Splits Kick. Cannot deflect projectiles.
2.) ^A, A: Ni Rengeki, a counterpart to Twin Pistons.
3.) No Roundhouse to Triple Spin Kicks equivalent, so a completely different moves with a different inputs.
4.) ->A: Front Thrust Kick, a counterpart to Oni Front Kick.
5.) Shun Masatsu or Heat Seeker, a different move from Tsunami Kick, either having the same or different input execution.
6.) Down A: Right Sweep 1, a counterpart to Nejiri Uraken.
7.) Diagonal left or right down A: Right Low Roundhouse, a counterpart to Stature Smash. RLR will not knock the opponent flat on their rear.
8.) <-A: Spinning Sidekick, a counterpart to Flash Tornado.
9.) Diagonal right or left up A: Cascade Kick, a different move from Jump Side Kick. A arch-like kick starts from the ground, lift the leg in the air into a ground stomp.
Crouch attacks:
1.) Diagonal right or left A (depending on the direction while crouching): Twin Lancer, a different move from Tombstone Crusher and Bamboo Splitter, a counterpart to Crouch Spin Kick. TL is different from TC as TL will bound the opponent from the ground into the air which set up a combo string while TC is useful as a counterattack and no combo string startup.
2.) Down A (while crouching): Crouch Jab, same thing as Kazuya.
3.) Crouch, then A (while standing up): Crouching Uppercut, a counterpart to Demon God Fist. CU will launch the opponent into the air in a stun state, compared to DGF where the opponent is stun while felling directly toward the ground.
Smash attacks:
1.) Side Smash attack: Corpse Thrust, a counterpart to Glorious Demon God Fist.
2.) Up Smash attack: High Right Roundhouse, a different move from Devil Twister.
3.) Down Smash attack: Low Trick Kick, a different move from Lion Slayer.
Air attacks:
1,) Air neutral: Jumping Knuckle, same thing as Kazuya. This move is well known and air attack move aren't actually listed anywhere in the Tekken command list.
2.) Forward air attack: Left Spinning Jump Kick, a counterpart from Searing Edge.
3.) Back air attack: Spinning Flare Kick, a different move from Jumping Sobat. Its function is a combination of Crack Shoot and Demon Scissors. Like Crack Shoot, the move propel Jin forward, and the player needs to tap the back button multiple times to go the other direction. Like Demon Scissors, Jin will lay on his back after the move is executed.
4.) Up air attack: Front Jump Kick, a counterpart to Rising Toe Kick.
5.) Down air attack: Right Spinning Axe Kick, Right Sweep 1 or Downward Roundhouse Kick (resemble Palutena's down air attack), a different move from Demon Scissors. I wanted to place Jumping Knuckle as the down air attack, but if Jin is going to be a clone, then his JK should be in the same position like Kazuya, in order, to not confuse the player when playing as a Tekken characters.
Next, is Jin's grab/throwing moves:
1.) Standard grab plus jab: A knees pummel to the gut, a different move from Sternum Smash.
2.) Forward throw: Double Face Kick, same thing as Kazuya.
3.) Back throw: Over the Shoulder Reverse, a counterpart to Steel Petal Drop.
4.) Up throw: Tidal Wave, a different move from Air Inferno.
5.) Down throw: Shun Ren Dan, a different move from Stonehead. In Tekken 7, Jin does a knees pummel to the gut, a left punch to the gut (left side), a low right roundhouse, and a small backstep into a high right roundhouse.
6.) Special throw: Complicated Wire, a different move from Gates of Hell, either having the same or different input execution.
Jin's Crouch dash and attacks:
Jin's Crouch dash has the same input as Kazuya, but there is a small window where Jin can do a small jump after dashing, just like in Tekken 7. The small jump is beneficent as it can avoid some attack or projectiles depending the height or size of the attacks. Meaning Jin has more opportunity to avoid attacks, not just from dashing through them.
1.) Crouch dash input, then A: Wind Hook Fist, a counterpart to Wind God Fist.
2.) Press the last input and A simultaneously: Electric Wind Hook Fist, a counterpart to Electric Wind God Fist.
3.) Crouch dash input (hold and A): Thrusting Uppercut, a counterpart to Dragon Uppercut.
4.) Crouch dash input, then B: L.L.R.K. to Spinning Flare Kick, a different move from Spinning Demon to Left Hook.
Miscellaneous:
Side taunt (Special trick): Kazama Style 5 Hit Combo, a counterpart to Demon's Wrath.
When Jin parry a attack, he simply avoid it completely and can do a parry attack. In Smash, it function similar to Foresight, or Bat Within.
The Rage mechanic will function like Kazuya where there is a 1.1 attack multiplier and a Rage Drive. Jin's Rage Drive is actually a combination of several moves starting from a Crouch Dash into a Electric Wind Hook Fist, then a Thrusting Uppercut to a Mental Alertness (2)/Zenshin stance for a Leaping Side Kick, and ending it with a Corpse Thrust. Seeing these moves together is the big difference from Kazuya's Rage Drive being only a single grab move. Next part is trying to place the activation method; Kazuya's Rage Drive is three, so maybe three conditions as well.
1.) If Jin is in a crouch position while slowly standing up and the A button is timed correctly, then Rage Drive is activated and replaces Crouching Uppercut. This method removes the Crouch Dash portion at the beginning and begin at the EWHF section.
2.) Jin initiate MA (2) or Z stance, then input LSK, and Rage Drive is activated. From there the Crouch Dash, EWHF and TU are removed, and the moment LSK is used, a special blue visual effect surround Jin to indicate this is a Rage Drive. Less damages than the first method.
3.) Crouch Dash into Wind Hook Fist or Thrusting Uppercut, then Rage Drive is activated. A command input version activation similar to the one used in Kazuya's Rage Drive by replacing Dragon Uppercut.
Same weakness as Kazuya's Rage, though it relied on the opponent being hit with no shield rather than being grab.
B moves:
Jin's B moves are obviously going to be different from Kazuya as it relied more on his Fighting Stance rather than the usage of Devil Gene.
1.) Neutral B: Avenger, a simple charge B move where Jin can either cancel the move or charge all the way to unleash a super punch. A easy move that Kirby can uses instead of a stance change special.
2.) Side B: Mental Alertness (2) / Zenshin (depending on the direction).
MA(2) is a low stance change that allow Jin to do a small backstep while Zenshin is a variation of MA(2) where Jin steps forward instead. Both stance execute the same counterattack depending on the input. Zenshin cannot be cancelled from a forward dash motion. To not confuse MA(2) with Z, Z will be given a red visual effect.
Counterattacks: Left Drill Attack, Spine Cracker, Spine Striker (Season 3 DLC), Swaying Willow, Halberd Heel, Right Sweep (2), Joudan Tsukiage Niren, and Leaping Side Kick.
Maybe not all of these counterattacks will be in Smash, and only a few select one will be used instead. While in the air, there is no backstep or forward step and instead Jin strike the pose, and some counterattacks will work in the air. It is useful in One vs One due to auto turning, but tricky to use in multiplayer.
3.) Up B: Double Lift Kick, a simple upward recovery.
4.) Down B: Power Stance, a small invulnerability protection from attacks or grab. If the opponent is in close range of PS before the animation is finished, the opponent could be hit and briefly stun with no damage. However, if the move hits the opponent while the animation isn't finished, then Jin will not gain Ki Power surrounding his hand. The PS animation has to be complete without hitting the opponent, and once the condition is met, Jin will gain Ki Power for a couple of second.
Ki Power (from Tekken wiki):
- Advantages: Grants the player a 1.4-1.5 attack multiplier, first attack has the property of a counterattack, and 10% more damages to a blocked opponent.
- Disadvantages: Unable to block, grant the opponent a 1.4-1.5 attack multiplier, or in other word, weaken the player's defense, and grant the property of a opponent's first attack as a counterattack.
5.) Final Smash: Rage Art, a lunging punch into a series of jabs and end it with a powerful right punch. This was used as Jin's super in The King of Fighters: All-Star game.
Standard A:
1). Neutral A: 10 Hit Combo, same thing as Kazuya, just with a Jin's variation. Same input, the player can either continue to tap or hold the A button to execute the move. Same weakness where the opponent can block the last hit of the combo move.
- There is a special window during his neutral A where he can use Double Chamber Punch, Demon's Paw, or Median Line Destruction though it had to be activated during the first hit unless Kazuya's Flash Punch Combo which is trigger after a slight delay of the second hit. Why, the first hit? The first hit is a punch, the second move after Jin's 10 hit is a kick. It make sense to place the DCP, DP, or MLD after the first hit which can be tricky to use.
- Alternately, gives Jin a Left Right Combo at the start of his 10-Hit Combo, and therefore, the small window can be trigger after the second hit rather than the first hit. Basically, two jabs, then small window to DCP, DP, or MLD. If the third jab is initiated, then the 10 hit combo string begin and continues until the last hit.
Command inputs with directional stick:
1.) ->->A: Left Axe Kick, a counterpart to Left Splits Kick. Cannot deflect projectiles.
2.) ^A, A: Ni Rengeki, a counterpart to Twin Pistons.
3.) No Roundhouse to Triple Spin Kicks equivalent, so a completely different moves with a different inputs.
4.) ->A: Front Thrust Kick, a counterpart to Oni Front Kick.
5.) Shun Masatsu or Heat Seeker, a different move from Tsunami Kick, either having the same or different input execution.
6.) Down A: Right Sweep 1, a counterpart to Nejiri Uraken.
7.) Diagonal left or right down A: Right Low Roundhouse, a counterpart to Stature Smash. RLR will not knock the opponent flat on their rear.
8.) <-A: Spinning Sidekick, a counterpart to Flash Tornado.
9.) Diagonal right or left up A: Cascade Kick, a different move from Jump Side Kick. A arch-like kick starts from the ground, lift the leg in the air into a ground stomp.
Crouch attacks:
1.) Diagonal right or left A (depending on the direction while crouching): Twin Lancer, a different move from Tombstone Crusher and Bamboo Splitter, a counterpart to Crouch Spin Kick. TL is different from TC as TL will bound the opponent from the ground into the air which set up a combo string while TC is useful as a counterattack and no combo string startup.
2.) Down A (while crouching): Crouch Jab, same thing as Kazuya.
3.) Crouch, then A (while standing up): Crouching Uppercut, a counterpart to Demon God Fist. CU will launch the opponent into the air in a stun state, compared to DGF where the opponent is stun while felling directly toward the ground.
Smash attacks:
1.) Side Smash attack: Corpse Thrust, a counterpart to Glorious Demon God Fist.
2.) Up Smash attack: High Right Roundhouse, a different move from Devil Twister.
3.) Down Smash attack: Low Trick Kick, a different move from Lion Slayer.
Air attacks:
1,) Air neutral: Jumping Knuckle, same thing as Kazuya. This move is well known and air attack move aren't actually listed anywhere in the Tekken command list.
2.) Forward air attack: Left Spinning Jump Kick, a counterpart from Searing Edge.
3.) Back air attack: Spinning Flare Kick, a different move from Jumping Sobat. Its function is a combination of Crack Shoot and Demon Scissors. Like Crack Shoot, the move propel Jin forward, and the player needs to tap the back button multiple times to go the other direction. Like Demon Scissors, Jin will lay on his back after the move is executed.
4.) Up air attack: Front Jump Kick, a counterpart to Rising Toe Kick.
5.) Down air attack: Right Spinning Axe Kick, Right Sweep 1 or Downward Roundhouse Kick (resemble
Palutena's down air attack), a different move from Demon Scissors. I wanted to place Jumping Knuckle as the down air attack, but if Jin is going to be a clone, then his JK should be in the same position like Kazuya, in order, to not confuse the player when playing as a Tekken characters.Next, is Jin's grab/throwing moves:
1.) Standard grab plus jab: A knees pummel to the gut, a different move from Sternum Smash.
2.) Forward throw: Double Face Kick, same thing as Kazuya.
3.) Back throw: Over the Shoulder Reverse, a counterpart to Steel Petal Drop.
4.) Up throw: Tidal Wave, a different move from Air Inferno.
5.) Down throw: Shun Ren Dan, a different move from Stonehead. In Tekken 7, Jin does a knees pummel to the gut, a left punch to the gut (left side), a low right roundhouse, and a small backstep into a high right roundhouse.
6.) Special throw: Complicated Wire, a different move from Gates of Hell, either having the same or different input execution.
Jin's Crouch dash and attacks:
Jin's Crouch dash has the same input as Kazuya, but there is a small window where Jin can do a small jump after dashing, just like in Tekken 7. The small jump is beneficent as it can avoid some attack or projectiles depending the height or size of the attacks. Meaning Jin has more opportunity to avoid attacks, not just from dashing through them.
1.) Crouch dash input, then A: Wind Hook Fist, a counterpart to Wind God Fist.
2.) Press the last input and A simultaneously: Electric Wind Hook Fist, a counterpart to Electric Wind God Fist.
3.) Crouch dash input (hold and A): Thrusting Uppercut, a counterpart to Dragon Uppercut.
4.) Crouch dash input, then B: L.L.R.K. to Spinning Flare Kick, a different move from Spinning Demon to Left Hook.
Miscellaneous:
Side taunt (Special trick): Kazama Style 5 Hit Combo, a counterpart to Demon's Wrath.
When Jin parry a attack, he simply avoid it completely and can do a parry attack. In Smash, it function similar to
Foresight, or Bat Within.Devil Jin:
In Tekken, whenever Jin is close to death or go unconscious, he will subconscious undergo the transformation of Devil Jin to survive the many threats after his life. Jin's control over the Devil Gene didn't happened until Tekken 6 where Jin start to use one quote from Devil Jin, and this indicate Jin is going through a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde moment. Even then, Jin continues to use his own fighting style Karate without including any Devil Jin's move into his moveset. Devil Jin as a character use Jin's old fighting style of Mishima Style Fighting Karate and Kazama Style Traditional Martial Arts. Now, if what I layout isn't enough materials for Jin, and the necessity of Devil Jin have to be included somewhere. Then, I have several proposals:
1.) Replace the Rage mechanic with a Devil Jin transformation and scarp the Rage Drive special. It function a lot like Rage, but Jin transform into Devil Jin, and has several of his attacks, specials, and grab be changed to custom the different fighting style that the two characters have. After some times, Devil Jin reverts back to normal Jin.
2.) Replace Jin's entire special with Devil Jin's special as a way to copy Kazuya's special.
3.) Down B is the transformation button where Jin and Devil Jin can transform into each other.
4.) Jin use one quote from Devil Jin for his taunt or victory line.
5.) Jin transform into Devil Jin for a Final Smash, taunt, or victory.
At this point, why not separate the two characters and have each characters take up a fighter spot. Or, allow one to be in Smash while the other is a cameo or Easter egg. If I am playing Jin, I expect to do stance change, EWHF, parry and hit or miss punish. If I am playing Devil Jin, I expect to do laser beam, fly stance, EWGF, and Mishima moves. The amount of effort for both characters being together having different attacks or input from each other is too much. Sure, replacing Jin's special to replicate Kazuya can happen, but where would Jin's karate stance go then. Jin's stance is a well known feature that he starts using after abandoning his old style, and he is almost never seen without it. The A button directional input is already preoccupied with his other moves, so the B button? Add more confusing directional inputs to B, this will make Jin a difficult to learn and not a fun character. Hilarious, I know since I place MA(2) as a special and have a directional inputs for several counterattacks. Ever since I learn about Jin's parry, I attribute Jin as Mythra where he is a lightweight fighter that can do a special parry, small damage and combo. On the other hand, Devil Jin is like Pyra where he can go for the KO and have huge knockback attack.
1.) Replace the Rage mechanic with a Devil Jin transformation and scarp the Rage Drive special. It function a lot like Rage, but Jin transform into Devil Jin, and has several of his attacks, specials, and grab be changed to custom the different fighting style that the two characters have. After some times, Devil Jin reverts back to normal Jin.
2.) Replace Jin's entire special with Devil Jin's special as a way to copy Kazuya's special.
3.) Down B is the transformation button where Jin and Devil Jin can transform into each other.
4.) Jin use one quote from Devil Jin for his taunt or victory line.
5.) Jin transform into Devil Jin for a Final Smash, taunt, or victory.
At this point, why not separate the two characters and have each characters take up a fighter spot. Or, allow one to be in Smash while the other is a cameo or Easter egg. If I am playing Jin, I expect to do stance change, EWHF, parry and hit or miss punish. If I am playing Devil Jin, I expect to do laser beam, fly stance, EWGF, and Mishima moves. The amount of effort for both characters being together having different attacks or input from each other is too much. Sure, replacing Jin's special to replicate Kazuya can happen, but where would Jin's karate stance go then. Jin's stance is a well known feature that he starts using after abandoning his old style, and he is almost never seen without it. The A button directional input is already preoccupied with his other moves, so the B button? Add more confusing directional inputs to B, this will make Jin a difficult to learn and not a fun character. Hilarious, I know since I place MA(2) as a special and have a directional inputs for several counterattacks. Ever since I learn about Jin's parry, I attribute Jin as Mythra where he is a lightweight fighter that can do a special parry, small damage and combo. On the other hand, Devil Jin is like Pyra where he can go for the KO and have huge knockback attack.
The second part: different Tekken characters translate into Smash:
Frankly, I don't have a definitive answer to this question. I guess look at other games that feature these characters in a 2D environment to learn on how other developers viewed their attack and special. Look at Street Fighter x Tekken, King of Fighters: All-Star, or PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale as a reference point on how these developers adapt a Tekken characters into their game. Or, do what I did, and look at their moveset and overlap it with another moveset. Surely, there is going to be some directional inputs that match the correspond moves. Look at the list, pick a moves as a neutral and whatever is leftover that their special. Not every moves needs to be in Smash.
I guess a starting point for a Tekken characters Smash adaptation is if they have a Leaping sidekick as their dash, Left Right Combo as their jab startup, can they do a 10 Hit Combo, the usage of weapon like sword, gun, chainsaw, missile, explosion, and other various fighting stances, transformations or wavedash. Reminder that most of Tekken fighters actually share similar-looking or same move from one or another.
Reflection:
It took a week to respond to this question and I could have ignored it or give out a simple short answer. I went down this rabbit hole and learn thing that I didn't want to know. The main point that I learn is Jin is a pseudo-clone like Ness and Lucas where many of the A moves look similar to the other, in terms of how they function or interact, but they have completely different unique properties from each other. The only thing that Jin and Kazuya really share in common is the Leaping Sidekick, some directional inputs, Crouch Dash, Electric Fist, and Double Face Kick. I am tired and exhausted from writing this post, and I believe I did a alright job on adapting Jin into Smash. It is only missing a couple moves like Savage Sword and Evil Intent. I hope that my post is helpful on learning what kind of character Jin is and how Jin is completely different from a typical Mishima fighter.
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
It’s referencing the watermelon level on Gelato Beach where you have to avoid the Cataquacks.
Idon
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It wouldn't. It'd be "AT, but specifically FE."
Oh wait, actually, now that I think about it, Ditto can technically be KO'd by virtue of turning into a fighter.
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FreeFox
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SMAASH! Puppy
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This goes above and beyond what I was asking for. I commend you for that.Sorry, for a late response
The first part: Gameplay standpoint
According to the experts in Tekken 7, Jin is a well round character, a jack of all stats or a master of none with a good mobility.
- Pros: His punishment is good, he has the broken parry in the game, he can do a Mishima crouch dash + a jump after dashing, and his Wind Hook Fist/Electric Wind Hook Fist is a much better variation than the Electric Wind God Fist. Due to various stances, he can played as a counter heavy, evasive and defensive fighter.
Stances:
1) Power Stance: Jin's special stance power ups his spirit and intensifies his next attack (from Project x Zone 2 skills description).
2) Mental Alertness (2): Jin goes into a unique low stance to unleash a variety of counters (from PxZ2 skills description).
Counterattacks: Left Drill Attack, Spine Cracker, Spine Striker (Season 3 DLC), Swaying Willow, Halberd Heel, Right Sweep (2), Joudan Tsukiage Niren, and Leaping Side Kick.
3) Zenshin: Jin's stance can cancel strikes, allowing him to chain longer combos together (from PxZ2 skills description). Able to use MA(2) counterattacks, but cannot be cancelled from a forward dash motion.
Moves that can transition into the Zenshin stance: Twin Lancer and Front Thrust Kick.
- Cons: His combo string is a hit or miss, the attack damage is weak, and his attack range is very limited as it can easily whiff or miss the opponent.
The first part (2): Smash moveset
To translate the idea of Jin being in Smash, I think Jin should be a pseudo-clone, not a echo. In particular, I think Jin will share many similarities with Kazuya like having a crouch dash, electric fist, air attacks, punch or kick attacks, a comeback mechanic in the form of Rage/Rage Art, and command inputs for hidden moves. The difference between the two, is that Jin will uses multiple karate stances in his arsenal, a different set of special and throwing moves, a broken parry, and a different Final Smash from Kazuya. Jin will obviously not have the Devil Gene move(s) into his moveset, unless it is his Final Smash or potential gimmick. Besides these traits, I think Jin can have a average Shoto-like stat, a slightly better jumping mobility than Kazuya, but his attack damage would be weak and maybe his attack range retain the whole hit or miss timing.
Now I going to list out each of Jin's possible moves and there will be some similarities of Kazuya's moves. With each moves looking similar to one and another in terms of their interaction, but having a different names to underscore their difference. I had to re-watch Sakurai's presentation to pinpoint the accuracy where each moves are and placed them in the moveset. Also, I cross-examine Jin's moveset and Kazuya's moveset from Tekken 7, and what moves match each other directional command inputs as a potential base for Jin's Smash move.
Rage:
The Rage mechanic will function like Kazuya where there is a 1.1 attack multiplier and a Rage Drive. Jin's Rage Drive is actually a combination of several moves starting from a Crouch Dash into a Electric Wind Hook Fist, then a Thrusting Uppercut to a Mental Alertness (2)/Zenshin stance for a Leaping Side Kick, and ending it with a Corpse Thrust. Seeing these moves together is the big difference from Kazuya's Rage Drive being only a single grab move. Next part is trying to place the activation method; Kazuya's Rage Drive is three, so maybe three conditions as well.
1.) If Jin is in a crouch position while slowly standing up and the A button is timed correctly, then Rage Drive is activated and replaces Crouching Uppercut. This method removes the Crouch Dash portion at the beginning and begin at the EWHF section.
2.) Jin initiate MA (2) or Z stance, then input LSK, and Rage Drive is activated. From there the Crouch Dash, EWHF and TU are removed, and the moment LSK is used, a special blue visual effect surround Jin to indicate this is a Rage Drive. Less damages than the first method.
3.) Crouch Dash into Wind Hook Fist or Thrusting Uppercut, then Rage Drive is activated. A command input version activation similar to the one used in Kazuya's Rage Drive by replacing Dragon Uppercut.
Same weakness as Kazuya's Rage, though it relied on the opponent being hit with no shield rather than being grab.
B moves:
Jin's B moves are obviously going to be different from Kazuya as it relied more on his Fighting Stance rather than the usage of Devil Gene.
1.) Neutral B: Avenger, a simple charge B move where Jin can either cancel the move or charge all the way to unleash a super punch. A easy move that Kirby can uses instead of a stance change special.
2.) Side B: Mental Alertness (2) / Zenshin (depending on the direction).
MA(2) is a low stance change that allow Jin to do a small backstep while Zenshin is a variation of MA(2) where Jin steps forward instead. Both stance execute the same counterattack depending on the input. Zenshin cannot be cancelled from a forward dash motion. To not confuse MA(2) with Z, Z will be given a red visual effect.
Counterattacks: Left Drill Attack, Spine Cracker, Spine Striker (Season 3 DLC), Swaying Willow, Halberd Heel, Right Sweep (2), Joudan Tsukiage Niren, and Leaping Side Kick.
Maybe not all of these counterattacks will be in Smash, and only a few select one will be used instead. While in the air, there is no backstep or forward step and instead Jin strike the pose, and some counterattacks will work in the air. It is useful in One vs One due to auto turning, but tricky to use in multiplayer.
3.) Up B: Double Lift Kick, a simple upward recovery.
4.) Down B: Power Stance, a small invulnerability protection from attacks or grab. If the opponent is in close range of PS before the animation is finished, the opponent could be hit and briefly stun with no damage. However, if the move hits the opponent while the animation isn't finished, then Jin will not gain Ki Power surrounding his hand. The PS animation has to be complete without hitting the opponent, and once the condition is met, Jin will gain Ki Power for a couple of second.
Ki Power (from Tekken wiki):
So, how does one translate Ki Power into Smash? Well, grant the player a 1.4-1.5 attack multiplier, do more shield damage, disable the player's block button, weaken the player's defense, and remove the counterattack property for both players.
- Advantages: Grants the player a 1.4-1.5 attack multiplier, first attack has the property of a counterattack, and 10% more damages to a blocked opponent.
- Disadvantages: Unable to block, grant the opponent a 1.4-1.5 attack multiplier, or in other word, weaken the player's defense, and grant the property of a opponent's first attack as a counterattack.
5.) Final Smash: Rage Art, a lunging punch into a series of jabs and end it with a powerful right punch. This was used as Jin's super in The King of Fighters: All-Star game.
Standard A:
1). Neutral A: 10 Hit Combo, same thing as Kazuya, just with a Jin's variation. Same input, the player can either continue to tap or hold the A button to execute the move. Same weakness where the opponent can block the last hit of the combo move.
2.) Dash attack: Leaping sidekick, same thing as Kazuya.
- There is a special window during his neutral A where he can use Double Chamber Punch, Demon's Paw, or Median Line Destruction though it had to be activated during the first hit unless Kazuya's Flash Punch Combo which is trigger after a slight delay of the second hit. Why, the first hit? The first hit is a punch, the second move after Jin's 10 hit is a kick. It make sense to place the DCP, DP, or MLD after the first hit which can be tricky to use.
- Alternately, gives Jin a Left Right Combo at the start of his 10-Hit Combo, and therefore, the small window can be trigger after the second hit rather than the first hit. Basically, two jabs, then small window to DCP, DP, or MLD. If the third jab is initiated, then the 10 hit combo string begin and continues until the last hit.
Command inputs with directional stick:
1.) ->->A: Left Axe Kick, a counterpart to Left Splits Kick. Cannot deflect projectiles.
2.) ^A, A: Ni Rengeki, a counterpart to Twin Pistons.
3.) No Roundhouse to Triple Spin Kicks equivalent, so a completely different moves with a different inputs.
4.) ->A: Front Thrust Kick, a counterpart to Oni Front Kick.
5.) Shun Masatsu or Heat Seeker, a different move from Tsunami Kick, either having the same or different input execution.
6.) Down A: Right Sweep 1, a counterpart to Nejiri Uraken.
7.) Diagonal left or right down A: Right Low Roundhouse, a counterpart to Stature Smash. RLR will not knock the opponent flat on their rear.
8.) <-A: Spinning Sidekick, a counterpart to Flash Tornado.
9.) Diagonal right or left up A: Cascade Kick, a different move from Jump Side Kick. A arch-like kick starts from the ground, lift the leg in the air into a ground stomp.
Crouch attacks:
1.) Diagonal right or left A (depending on the direction while crouching): Twin Lancer, a different move from Tombstone Crusher and Bamboo Splitter, a counterpart to Crouch Spin Kick. TL is different from TC as TL will bound the opponent from the ground into the air which set up a combo string while TC is useful as a counterattack and no combo string startup.
2.) Down A (while crouching): Crouch Jab, same thing as Kazuya.
3.) Crouch, then A (while standing up): Crouching Uppercut, a counterpart to Demon God Fist. CU will launch the opponent into the air in a stun state, compared to DGF where the opponent is stun while felling directly toward the ground.
Smash attacks:
1.) Side Smash attack: Corpse Thrust, a counterpart to Glorious Demon God Fist.
2.) Up Smash attack: High Right Roundhouse, a different move from Devil Twister.
3.) Down Smash attack: Low Trick Kick, a different move from Lion Slayer.
Air attacks:
1,) Air neutral: Jumping Knuckle, same thing as Kazuya. This move is well known and air attack move aren't actually listed anywhere in the Tekken command list.
2.) Forward air attack: Left Spinning Jump Kick, a counterpart from Searing Edge.
3.) Back air attack: Spinning Flare Kick, a different move from Jumping Sobat. Its function is a combination of Crack Shoot and Demon Scissors. Like Crack Shoot, the move propel Jin forward, and the player needs to tap the back button multiple times to go the other direction. Like Demon Scissors, Jin will lay on his back after the move is executed.
4.) Up air attack: Front Jump Kick, a counterpart to Rising Toe Kick.
5.) Down air attack: Right Spinning Axe Kick, Right Sweep 1 or Downward Roundhouse Kick (resemble
Next, is Jin's grab/throwing moves:
1.) Standard grab plus jab: A knees pummel to the gut, a different move from Sternum Smash.
2.) Forward throw: Double Face Kick, same thing as Kazuya.
3.) Back throw: Over the Shoulder Reverse, a counterpart to Steel Petal Drop.
4.) Up throw: Tidal Wave, a different move from Air Inferno.
5.) Down throw: Shun Ren Dan, a different move from Stonehead. In Tekken 7, Jin does a knees pummel to the gut, a left punch to the gut (left side), a low right roundhouse, and a small backstep into a high right roundhouse.
6.) Special throw: Complicated Wire, a different move from Gates of Hell, either having the same or different input execution.
Jin's Crouch dash and attacks:
Jin's Crouch dash has the same input as Kazuya, but there is a small window where Jin can do a small jump after dashing, just like in Tekken 7. The small jump is beneficent as it can avoid some attack or projectiles depending the height or size of the attacks. Meaning Jin has more opportunity to avoid attacks, not just from dashing through them.
1.) Crouch dash input, then A: Wind Hook Fist, a counterpart to Wind God Fist.
2.) Press the last input and A simultaneously: Electric Wind Hook Fist, a counterpart to Electric Wind God Fist.
3.) Crouch dash input (hold and A): Thrusting Uppercut, a counterpart to Dragon Uppercut.
4.) Crouch dash input, then B: L.L.R.K. to Spinning Flare Kick, a different move from Spinning Demon to Left Hook.
Miscellaneous:
Side taunt (Special trick): Kazama Style 5 Hit Combo, a counterpart to Demon's Wrath.
When Jin parry a attack, he simply avoid it completely and can do a parry attack. In Smash, it function similar to
Devil Jin:
In Tekken, whenever Jin is close to death or go unconscious, he will subconscious undergo the transformation of Devil Jin to survive the many threats after his life. Jin's control over the Devil Gene didn't happened until Tekken 6 where Jin start to use one quote from Devil Jin, and this indicate Jin is going through a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde moment. Even then, Jin continues to use his own fighting style Karate without including any Devil Jin's move into his moveset. Devil Jin as a character use Jin's old fighting style of Mishima Style Fighting Karate and Kazama Style Traditional Martial Arts. Now, if what I layout isn't enough materials for Jin, and the necessity of Devil Jin have to be included somewhere. Then, I have several proposals:
1.) Replace the Rage mechanic with a Devil Jin transformation and scarp the Rage Drive special. It function a lot like Rage, but Jin transform into Devil Jin, and has several of his attacks, specials, and grab be changed to custom the different fighting style that the two characters have. After some times, Devil Jin reverts back to normal Jin.
2.) Replace Jin's entire special with Devil Jin's special as a way to copy Kazuya's special.
3.) Down B is the transformation button where Jin and Devil Jin can transform into each other.
4.) Jin use one quote from Devil Jin for his taunt or victory line.
5.) Jin transform into Devil Jin for a Final Smash, taunt, or victory.
At this point, why not separate the two characters and have each characters take up a fighter spot. Or, allow one to be in Smash while the other is a cameo or Easter egg. If I am playing Jin, I expect to do stance change, EWHF, parry and hit or miss punish. If I am playing Devil Jin, I expect to do laser beam, fly stance, EWGF, and Mishima moves. The amount of effort for both characters being together having different attacks or input from each other is too much. Sure, replacing Jin's special to replicate Kazuya can happen, but where would Jin's karate stance go then. Jin's stance is a well known feature that he starts using after abandoning his old style, and he is almost never seen without it. The A button directional input is already preoccupied with his other moves, so the B button? Add more confusing directional inputs to B, this will make Jin a difficult to learn and not a fun character. Hilarious, I know since I place MA(2) as a special and have a directional inputs for several counterattacks. Ever since I learn about Jin's parry, I attribute Jin as Mythra where he is a lightweight fighter that can do a special parry, small damage and combo. On the other hand, Devil Jin is like Pyra where he can go for the KO and have huge knockback attack.
The second part: different Tekken characters translate into Smash:
Frankly, I don't have a definitive answer to this question. I guess look at other games that feature these characters in a 2D environment to learn on how other developers viewed their attack and special. Look at Street Fighter x Tekken, King of Fighters: All-Star, or PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale as a reference point on how these developers adapt a Tekken characters into their game. Or, do what I did, and look at their moveset and overlap it with another moveset. Surely, there is going to be some directional inputs that match the correspond moves. Look at the list, pick a moves as a neutral and whatever is leftover that their special. Not every moves needs to be in Smash.
I guess a starting point for a Tekken characters Smash adaptation is if they have a Leaping sidekick as their dash, Left Right Combo as their jab startup, can they do a 10 Hit Combo, the usage of weapon like sword, gun, chainsaw, missile, explosion, and other various fighting stances, transformations or wavedash. Reminder that most of Tekken fighters actually share similar-looking or same move from one or another.
Reflection:
It took a week to respond to this question and I could have ignored it or give out a simple short answer. I went down this rabbit hole and learn thing that I didn't want to know. The main point that I learn is Jin is a pseudo-clone like Ness and Lucas where many of the A moves look similar to the other, in terms of how they function or interact, but they have completely different unique properties from each other. The only thing that Jin and Kazuya really share in common is the Leaping Sidekick, some directional inputs, Crouch Dash, Electric Fist, and Double Face Kick. I am tired and exhausted from writing this post, and I believe I did a alright job on adapting Jin into Smash. It is only missing a couple moves like Savage Sword and Evil Intent. I hope that my post is helpful on learning what kind of character Jin is and how Jin is completely different from a typical Mishima fighter.
The idea of adding Jin kind of excites me now. I hope we'll see all three Mishimas in Super Smash Bros. at some point (well...there's also Devil Jin, but as a variant character I care about him a little less).
Idon
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Oh huh, guess I'm completely wrong with that one. I suppose I never managed to kill any of those ATs since they flew high or activated fast.
I suppose ATs being killable is the norm rather.
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SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
I think the deal is that most of them can be, but it's generally not worth it to do so.
Love that you can kill Pong though. lol
FreeFox
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You can also kill metroid but you need to freeze it first. (its the only one missing from the video)
MamaLuigi123456
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If we're talking about stages, I'm still really disappointed that Ultimate has so few new ones. Barring the DLC characters' stages, the only new ones we have are New Donk City Hall, Great Plateau Tower, Moray Towers, and Dracula's Castle. Which are fine stages, but two are from the new series introduced and the other two are from the most recent game in their respective series... and that's it??I'm sorry to sound like a broken record, but PMEX has a crazy stage roster. some are mementos-esque variants of eachother, some are ported from other smash games, but there's still enough new stages to make it hype (and obviously it's only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to stage mods). Here are some highlights...
there's also a really cool Goldenrod City stage, but I don't think there's a good picture of it online.
There are tons of games that released between around the time of Smash 4 and around the time of Ultimate that I would have loved to see get stages, like Super Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Pokemon Sun and Moon, I could go on. And there's also a couple more series that could have been repped with a stage even if they never got a character, like Pushmo, Dillon's Rolling Western, NES Remix, Nintendo Badge Arcade, etc. I'd certainly trade some of the more mediocre stages we have like Jungle Japes or The Great Cave Offensive that are really only here for seniority sake.
Idon
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Yeah I'm disappointed too.
It seems that beyond the characters "EVERYONE IS HERE" applied also to stages as a huge amount of them are carryover from previous games, even 3DS and that really dug into their resources for brand new stages. Shame too as I think aesthetically the Ultimate stages might be my favorite as a whole.
Personally, I would've enjoyed it if at LEAST every character (minus Echoes I guess) had a stage associated with them.
MamaLuigi123456
Smash Champion
Every stage coming back wouldn't be so jarring to me if they... actually brought back every stage. Like I get there are some stages like Sector Z, Planet Zebes, or Melee Mushroom Kingdom that would be a bit superfluous and that makes sense to me...
But why the hell are these stages lost to time forever
Woolly World especially because that was highkeye my favorite Wii U stage
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Idon
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For some it's technical gimmicks like Pac-Maze's screenwrap or the DK Jungle with 2 layers.
For others... it's just plain bad luck.
MamaLuigi123456
Smash Champion
I mean Mario Bros. and Balloon Fight do screenwrap just fine so I don't think that's the issue
I've heard some claim it was cut because it was designed to be played with multiple screens, and each screen showing the ghosts turning blue only when their player gets a Power Pellet, but I'm pretty sure there could be a workaround for that. I mean, I played the stage a fair bit in single player and it was never that jarring to me.
Yeah it does seem like new (base game) stages took a toll in Ultimate's development, I was particularly surprised Pokemon Sun/Moon didn't get a stage after the likes of Spear Pillar, N's Castle and the Kalos ones.
I'm also sad about Woolly World and Jungle Hijinx not making the cut, but especially Orbital Gate Assault, which was a nice step-up from the other StarFox stages. Here's hoping some returning/new stages could still be up for DLC...
Oh, and R.O.B. definitely needs his own stage by now.
I'm also sad about Woolly World and Jungle Hijinx not making the cut, but especially Orbital Gate Assault, which was a nice step-up from the other StarFox stages. Here's hoping some returning/new stages could still be up for DLC...
Oh, and R.O.B. definitely needs his own stage by now.
PLATINUM7
Star Platinum
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It shouldn't be jarring for anyone playing by themselves because the CPU doesn't need a screen to look at, the workaround only needs to be for multiplayer.
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
Isn't screenwrap only present in the SSF2 version?
~
Personally, I think Rainbow Road was dropped due to being unfeasible. I remember there being something about the stage only being possible through the reuse of Mario Kart 7's assets. Since Mario Kart 7 was designed specifically for the 3Ds, there's a decent chance that they'd have to recreate the entire thing.
This could be false if they future proofed the tracks, though I'm hesitant to say that they did since they don't bring back every track immediately (some not for several games), and the retro tracks have been changed up considerably in Mario Kart 8 (though that might only be true for the older ones). Then again, the moon in that one battle arena looks very similar to the one on Rainbow Road, so there's a pretty decent chance that I'm wrong.
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