Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Freduardo]

I want my ideal sakurai troll.

magnus based off his removed assist trophy because he’s also used as the announcement that the reason we won’t get characters after him is we're getting a Kid Icarus Uprising for switch.

 

[SharkLord]

It feels like a bit of a weird impasse with speculation. On one hand patterns, histories, and general tendencies with fighter selection are the backbone of Smash theories, but on the other hand so many particular expectations and consistencies have been broken and the final fighter is one that realistically couldn't/wouldn't have to fit in any boxes that earlier characters might that more than ever it feels like open guesswork as to whom it might be. Even the nature of final fighters in the past doesn't feel like it can be entirely crafted onto this one given how much of a contrast this DLC (and Nintendo's overall business model) is today.

I think the big problem is that there's only one character left. Previously, there was an entire pass to guess, so it felt like you could just throw darts and make predictions for all six fighters. Who knows, maybe you could've been right a couple times. Now, the likelihood of guessing correctly just feels that much smaller, so most people just don't feel like taking the risk. That, and yeah, consistencies and patterns have been wrecked quite a bit over the course of this speculation cycle.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Been almost a week since I posted in here. What we currently discussing? Anything new pop up?

 

[Deleted member]

On a sidenote, everyone believing Vol 2 would not end on a big note should also think about if the order of Vol 2 was in reverse. Even if CP11 isn't a relatively big name, the reverse order would look like a crescendo from CP11 to Kazuya to Pyra and Mythra to Sephiroth to Steve, and then it just ends with... Min Min lol.

Like I'm sorry ARMS fans but even if people would still be pessimistic about who the last character could be, Min Min would've still been **** on for being the follow up fighter after Sephiroth and Steve. I don't know if it would've been as rough as Byleth, but it wouldn't have been so great either.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I am expecting the final fighter to be a Phoenix Wright-tier character if you get my drift of what I'm saying.

 

[Theguy123]

On a sidenote, everyone believing Vol 2 would not end on a big note should also think about if the order of Vol 2 was in reverse. Even if CP11 isn't a relatively big name, the reverse order would look like a crescendo from CP11 to Kazuya to Pyra and Mythra to Sephiroth to Steve, and then it just ends with... Min Min lol.

Like I'm sorry ARMS fans but even if people would still be pessimistic about who the last character could be, Min Min would've still been **** on for being the follow up fighter after Sephiroth and Steve. I don't know if it would've been as rough as Byleth, but it wouldn't have been so great either.

I still don’t know why people like to look at min min as a weak pick. Japan loved min min. It’s trailer almost has as many views as Steve and sephiroth. Actually in Japan it has more views than Sephiroths Europe trailer. Min min’s Has around 3.5 mill if I remember rightly whereas Steve’s has around 4 mill in Europe.

 

[Perkilator]

I was playing Smash Run earlier today, and now I'm sad this wasn't brought back, base game or free update.

Only thing I'm not a fan of is the over abundance of enemies from Kid Icarus alone and the swarms of enemies in general in the same room on occasion.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I still don’t know why people like to look at min min as a weak pick

"I didn't want ARMS"

 

[Schnee117]

Now, the likelihood of guessing correctly just feels that much smaller, so most people just don't feel like taking the risk.

What risk? Being wrong isn't a risk so long as you're not acting so absolutely cocksure about your guesses and predictions. Anyone approaching speculation with the expectation of being correct is going about it the complete wrong way and isn't someone worth entertaining.

 

[MattX20]

I am expecting the final fighter to be a Phoenix Wright-tier character if you get my drift of what I'm saying.

That's what I was saying yesterday as well! Good to know we're on a similar wavelength of speculation

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That's what I was saying yesterday as well! Good to know we're on a similar wavelength of speculation

Really hope its Phoenix Wright himself. He or Amaterasu are currently my most want for the last slot.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Ok but
If Cp11 is Phoenix

PLEASSSE have his Final Smash take fighters into the courtroom and have Phoenix point his deadly finger at them.
Followed by fighters breaking down in Ace Attorney art style

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ok but
If Cp11 is Phoenix

PLEASSSE have his Final Smash take fighters into the courtroom and have Phoenix point his deadly finger at them.
Followed by fighters breaking down in Ace Attorney art style

Or as someone mentioned have not long ago have Joker standing for trial for what was his Smash invitation as seen in Joker's reveal trailer.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That's what I was saying yesterday as well! Good to know we're on a similar wavelength of speculation

Wait a couple of days and he'll be back to saying it's Master Chief or Cinderace.

 

[Mamboo07]

"I didn't want ARMS"

Wasn't Spring Man requested for Smash before he became an Assist?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Wait a couple of days and he'll be back to saying it's Master Chief or Cinderace.

Nah man I think Master Chief's chances are dashed at this point. I could however potentially see the final fighter being a 1st party especially a Pokemon though.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Chun-Li, Guile, Crash, Lara Croft, and the SMTV protagonist

Red Flag imo concerning this "leak" among other red flags imo
Lara Croft as a Mii Fighter with a Non-Square fighter? When we already got Sephiroth? Unless CP11 is indeed another Square rep, while I'd take that (The Lara Costume), then again, we've been surprised and had our expectations shattered a myriad of times now.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I legit have no clue who I think the next character is. I want it to be Raiden from Metal Gear Rising but I'd expect Sonic to get a new character first before Metal Gear.

 

[Ivander]

I was playing Smash Run earlier today, and now I'm sad this wasn't brought back, base game or free update.

Only thing I'm not a fan of is the over abundance of enemies from Kid Icarus alone and the swarms of enemies in general in the same room on occasion.

The only reason Kid Icarus had so many enemies was because they were easy to port over. Quite a bunch of enemies on the list were in games that were on 3DS, like Ocarina of Time 3D.

Regardless, if Smash Run comes back, I expect a bunch of Kid Icarus enemies to disappear because they would more likely port enemies over from other games, like Breath of the Wild, compared to making new models for every one of the enemies from the previous Smash Run.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I was playing Smash Run earlier today, and now I'm sad this wasn't brought back, base game or free update.

Only thing I'm not a fan of is the over abundance of enemies from Kid Icarus alone and the swarms of enemies in general in the same room on occasion.

Fun fact: apparently the reason why there are so many Kid Icarus enemies is because of how easy it was to port them into Smash.

 

[MattX20]

Nah man I think Master Chief's chances are dashed at this point. I could however potentially see the final fighter being a 1st party especially a Pokemon though.

I doubt a Pokemon this late into the game, but we can agree to disagree on this point. Personally, my speculation is leaning more towards a company already involved in Ultimate, and if 3rd parties can't or won't double dip in the pass, then Capcom and Sega are by far the strongest candidates. Sega not so much for Atlus (I'm seriously doubting SMT and SMT5 due to how long the development took), but because Phantasy Star is arguably their biggest IP that could make it.

 

[Perkilator]

The only reason Kid Icarus had so many enemies was because they were easy to port over. Quite a bunch of enemies on the list were in games that were on 3DS, like Ocarina of Time 3D.

Regardless, if Smash Run comes back, I expect a bunch of Kid Icarus enemies to disappear because they would more likely port enemies over from other games, like Breath of the Wild, compared to making new models for every one of the enemies from the previous Smash Run.

Fun fact: apparently the reason why there are so many Kid Icarus enemies is because of how easy it was to port them into Smash.

Fair enough, but still.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Japan loved min min

This is funny as Min Min infamously gets a ****ton of dislikes on Japanese youtube VODS for Smash sets, some people argued it was a toxic player but through all those videos, Min Min was the only common thread

 

[Deleted member]

I still don’t know why people like to look at min min as a weak pick. Japan loved min min. It’s trailer almost has as many views as Steve and sephiroth. Actually in Japan it has more views than Sephiroths Europe trailer. Min min’s Has around 3.5 mill if I remember rightly whereas Steve’s has around 4 mill in Europe.

As I said, you change the order of Vol 2 in reverse with Smash having the 2nd half of DLC being 2 huge names and the last 1 being a character that isn't anywhere near their statuses would've made her out to be more underwhelming in comparison to her being revealed first. ARMS being the first series to kick off Vol 2 was a good choice because people would come to appreciate the series getting more content in Smash earlier than if it were any later like how people view Byleth being last for Vol 1.

And since you brought up viewerships in trailers, you should also take note of the fact that Min Min came long before Steve and Sephiroth did. On the Smash Bros channel, the views on Sephiroth's trailer are twice as much as her trailer within a shorter timespan, and Steve's pretty much blew both of them out of the water. You also brought up Min Min's trailer in Japan having more viewership than Seph's in Europe but didn't mention Seph's trailer on Nintendo Japan's channel having 2 million more views than hers and Steve's. I don't even wanna touch other channels that reuploaded those trailers like Profasia and IGN cause then it'd just be unnecessary math for me to go through.

And look I'm not saying Min Min is a weak character since her trailer still has more views than the latest 2 characters, but the point I'm making is her being the first DLC character in Vol 2 does more favors than if she were to be the last.

 

[SharkLord]

What risk? Being wrong isn't a risk so long as you're not acting so absolutely cocksure about your guesses and predictions. Anyone approaching speculation with the expectation of being correct is going about it the complete wrong way and isn't someone worth entertaining.

Perhaps I could've worded it better. Basically, what I'm getting at is that previously, it just felt like you could actually grasp at something when making guesses, like there actually was something to go off of. Now, with a bunch of busted patterns and deconfirmations, it just feels like you're throwing darts while blindfolded.

Or maybe it's just me. I've changed a fair bit between when I first joined SmashBoards and now, and I've tightened up on what counts as "likely" or not. Granted, I wasn't expecting to be right anyways, but it wasn't until later that it sunk in that it was ending soon and I'll most likely be wrong by the time it ends - Mainly the part about how it was ending.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

"I didn't want ARMS"

Well, alright if you say so.

 

[SKX31]

It's coming

I'm convinced Nintendo has a time machine. pic.twitter.com/nyU8UQjB2l

— Memory Card (@MemCardShow) July 11, 2021

Samus, having traversed through a lot of vents in Morph Ball form, starts to sweat.

On a sidenote, everyone believing Vol 2 would not end on a big note should also think about if the order of Vol 2 was in reverse. Even if CP11 isn't a relatively big name, the reverse order would look like a crescendo from CP11 to Kazuya to Pyra and Mythra to Sephiroth to Steve, and then it just ends with... Min Min lol.

Like I'm sorry ARMS fans but even if people would still be pessimistic about who the last character could be, Min Min would've still been **** on for being the follow up fighter after Sephiroth and Steve. I don't know if it would've been as rough as Byleth, but it wouldn't have been so great either.

I'm not sure it would've been as bad since ARMS is not near the dislike that FE has garnered. If anything, the reaction to the character would be positive overall because we're talking about a new franchise and a more-or-less unique character.

That said, it's worth noting that the gameplay has recieved backlash with our current order. Most prominently from Japanese Youtubers and their followers as well reactions to Japanese pros using her to a lesser extent. Her being last would've likely amplified the gameplay-related backlash some because her - or hell, any ARMS' character's - particular brand of zoning would come after characters like Kazuya and Pyra / Mythra, not the other way around.

 

[Opossum]

People who dislike Min Min are weak and will not survive the winter.

 

[RoboFist]

Wasn't Spring Man requested for Smash before he became an Assist?

People forget that both he and a 3 Houses rep (more Edelgarde in the west and more Byleth in the east) were very highly requested before Joker completely changed the speculation game. Along with the likes of Ashley from Warioware, Krystal from Star Fox Adventures, etc.

EDIT: Okay, I get it, we've all decided to revise history and none of these characters were ever "seriously considered". I got the memo now, thanks.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People who dislike Min Min are weak and will not survive the winter.

We already survived a winter with Min Min

I'm not sure it would've been as bad since ARMS is not near the dislike that FE has garnered. If anything, the reaction to the character would be positive overall because we're talking about a new franchise and a more-or-less unique character.

That said, it's worth noting that the gameplay has recieved backlash with our current order. Most prominently from Japanese Youtubers and their followers as well reactions to Japanese pros using her to a lesser extent. Her being last would've likely amplified the gameplay-related backlash some because her - or hell, any ARMS' character's - particular brand of zoning would come after characters like Kazuya and Pyra / Mythra, not the other way around.

That's what got Bayo most of her hate tbf

 

[Mamboo07]

People forget that both he and a Four Houses rep (more Edelgarde in the west and more Byleth in the east) were very highly requested before Joker completely changed the speculation game. Along with the likes of Ashley from Warioware, Krystal from Star Fox Adventures, etc.

Don't forget Rex with Pyra.

 

[Schnee117]

People forget that both he and a Four Houses rep (more Edelgarde in the west and more Byleth in the east) were very highly requested before Joker completely changed the speculation game. Along with the likes of Ashley from Warioware, Krystal from Star Fox Adventures, etc.

Three Houses was pretty highly speculated during the First Pass too, especially after it got released and there wasn't a spirit event. It was literally the week of Byleth's reveal that that particular line of thought took a hit because Astral Chain got a late spirit event.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People forget that both he and a Four Houses rep (more Edelgarde in the west and more Byleth in the east) were very highly requested before Joker completely changed the speculation game. Along with the likes of Ashley from Warioware, Krystal from Star Fox Adventures, etc.

No? 3H didn't get seriously considered until after it actually came out, only discussion it had prior was doomposting and people going "Oooh I want to look super smart by predicting this character I know nothing about getting in Smash" which is like how loads of pokemon get support threads the day they're announced, so I don't know what you mean with "highly requested before Joker"

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Four Houses rep

Did you... not even bother to fix that to 3 Houses? Even though yes, there is now a 4th house thanks to DLC

 

[FreeFox]

Don't forget Rex with Pyra.

Rex and Pyra were highly requested on base game too.

Edit: My first impression of Rex came from this video posted during base smash discussion:

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Rex and Pyra were highly requested on base game too.

Edit: My first impression of Rex came from this video posted during base smash discussion:

That video makes me glad we got Pythra and NOT Rex.
Thanks.

 

[Theguy123]

Fire Emblem had not one, but (listen well) two spirit events prior to Byleth's inclusion, even though Sakurai and co. were already working on the character at the time.

So yes, they shouldn't mean anything unless they make it too evident (stuff like adding new spirits mid-pass).

Those are spirit events though, not tournament events. I personally don’t think they deconfirm specific move sets or character but i see a lot on 4chan saying that the events between a character and the next deconfirm specific types of movesets and was wondering if we have any evidence to debunk that.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Do we know if the event tournaments deconfirm specific types of characters because I see a lot of people on 4chan these days saying that the next character will have a weapon apart of their standard attacks because kazuya’s tournament is for characters that have no weapons in their standard attacks.

Before anyone says anything about 4chan, these aren’t leaks, it’s just people bringing this stuff up because they think tournament’s deconfirm certain characters or franchises so I was just wondering do we know if tournaments deconfirm specific characters/franchises/movesets etc or not. Do we have any evidence to debunk this stuff.

It's only mattered like once when a few tournament events were postponed before Steve's reveal and replacement tourneys from down the pipeline where added when Steve would have supposedly been out. So we had some guesses over what the next characters' properties would be but it wasn't a whole lot and at most we knew "They'd have a projectile" which surprise, Steve does.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Oh right.
We could get a spirit event on Tuesday.
Wonder what it'll be.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Oh right.
We could get a spirit event on Tuesday.
Wonder what it'll be.

Ace Attorney spirit event.

Ha, ha, ha, ha...I hope not...