Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[GilTheGreat19]

You know

despite him being Mii’d twice, I don’t think there’s ever been a Gil (Tower of Druaga) thread

anyone wanna make one? Feels bad he doesn’t have one

As a Gil myself, I volunteer to do it

 

[Deleted member]

I do think it’s strange that this pass, including Kazuya, has followed the second chance occurrence to a tee.

Arms barely missed it because of how close it was to it’s release.

Steve took 5 years to negotiate.

Sephiroth is the outlier here but even then there were rumors behind him and the lack of FF7 stuff inbase was suspicious in hindsight.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for the same reason as Arms.

And finally a Tekken character was considered for Smash 4 and maybe even early Smash Ultimate.

I have to wonder who else could follow that second chance pattern if it continues to the very last one. Dixie? Chorus Kids? …Hayabusa?

Then again this whole thing could just be a big coincidence.

Seems like it, but as in everything, it's not an end-all, be-all theory. By that, I mean even if we list out every character that 'missed a chance', it doesn't mean they're in the running. Case in point being Geno, who by Sakurai's own admission, had been contemplated before, but they couldn't settle on an interesting moveset (according to the initial time he was considered) and was skipped yet again.

For as many characters as we can think of that we know were contemplated, but missed the boat, there could easily be another reason why they get skipped over again. Specifically, I'm thinking Chorus Kids. We all know at this point that at least something for them was considered for Sm4sh as data for the kids were found in a datamine, but that doesn't mean they're a shoe-in for the final slot with this new theory.

At this point, we're down to these possibilities for the last character slot:

A) 'Second Chance Character' considered again, but thought 'boring' and couldn't decide on an interesting moveset
B) 'Second Chance Character' made into a Mii or PreMiium costume
C) 'Second Chance Character' passed over in favor of another, until-then-unknown 'missed' character
D) 'Second Chance Character' is chosen; congrats to those who never gave up; never surrendered
E) 'Second Chance Theory' was wrong and it was just hindsight forcing the circle into the square peg and it's once again someone we Never Saw Coming

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I saw people discussing whether or not Heihachi was really ditched for the lack of Devil Gene, and I've been thinking about that a little. I'm still taking Sakurai's words at face value here; From the looks of it, he probably saw them as roughly equal in prominence and felt Kazuya could do most of what Heihachi could on top of the Devil Gene flair, and so he just opted for Kazuya over Heihachi based on that.

I don't doubt that he wasn't lying, I just don't follow his logic.





So I got baited into watching this video thinking it was a mashinima (meaning Kazuya had dropped), but it's actually a (hilarious) normal animation.

 

[SharkLord]

I don't doubt that he wasn't lying, I just don't follow his logic.





So I got baited into watching this video thinking it was a mashinima (meaning Kazuya had dropped), but it's actually a (hilarious) normal animation.

Heat Haze Shadow gets louder

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Hol up who's been considered as early as since Smash 64 and STILL hasn't happened?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hol up who's been considered as early as since Smash 64 and STILL hasn't happened?

I think Ayumi Tachibana was considered for both 64 AND Melee? Can’t verify the 64 part tho

 

[SneakyLink]

Hol up who's been considered as early as since Smash 64 and STILL hasn't happened?

Uh... I think Ayumi was once mentioned as a passing mention?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Smash in a couple hours be like.

EDIT: Igot Greninja'd.

 

[zeldasmash]

= Goku
= Vegeta
= Shrek

A true revelation indeed.

= Frieza

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hol up who's been considered as early as since Smash 64 and STILL hasn't happened?

I think quite a few actually. Here's Source Gaming's video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrjIiw3dfzQ

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Hol up who's been considered as early as since Smash 64 and STILL hasn't happened?

From what we know they all happenned later. Marth, Mewtwo and Bowser all happenned in Melee, and Dedede in Brawl. There was many rumors about meowth being planned, but this was never confirmed. The only Smash 64 "character" that didn't happen is Slippy toad and Peppy who were considered to be skin for Fox (alongside Falco).

Edit: by the way for those who want info on cut and considered fighters Source gaming have this amazing article with a short summary table at the begining.

 

[SharkLord]

Hol up who's been considered as early as since Smash 64 and STILL hasn't happened?

Ayumi was mentioned in an interview as having been floated up. I think it was due to the lack of female characters, but I'm not sure. If we're including extra alts, there's also Peppy and Slippy; They were meant to be Fox's alts alongside Falco, but technological issues at the time and their different body shapes put that one to rest.

 

[7NATOR]

【トーナメントイベント】
7/2(金)から3日間、「対決！ 2010年代生まれ」を開催！ 2010～2019年に誕生したファイター/ステージでのトーナメントです。 勝ち進むほど、豪華なスピリッツが手に入ります。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/tVyTcSoO0l

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) June 29, 2021

2010s tourney outta nowhere.

Let's go, This tourney has been an enigma for a long time, especially the period after Sephiroth where we still didn't get the tourney. The fact that Pyra/Mythra came and went and the tourney still didn't show up kind of suggested that CP11 was from 2010's

Now it's out of here, so we can put this to rest. I will say that considering how long this tourney has been out of commission, I want to say that CP11 probably won't originate from the period between 2010-2019. However I'll keep an open mind

The one thing I want to ask about is about characters from the 2020 era. I know SMTV protag Nahobino has been getting traction lately, and if they were the last character, they originate from the 2020's, and be the only character to do so. I think if there were a 2020 character, they could have extended the timeframe to accommodate those years, since a 2020 character at this point would be the only one in the game, So I don't know how this would affect the speculation around Super recent characters

 

[Evil Trapezium]

【トーナメントイベント】
7/2(金)から3日間、「対決！ 2010年代生まれ」を開催！ 2010～2019年に誕生したファイター/ステージでのトーナメントです。 勝ち進むほど、豪華なスピリッツが手に入ります。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/tVyTcSoO0l

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) June 29, 2021

2010s tourney outta nowhere.

Hopes of Sgt. Cortez being Fighter 11... rising!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Chorus Kids seen to fit the second chance theory the best but. .

Why would Nintendo pick a Rhythm Heaven character in 2020-2021?

 

[Shroob]

I dunno


I kinda subscribe that the last character won't fit the 2nd chance theory, just to throw everyone for a loop.

 

[Technomage]

I dunno


I kinda subscribe that the last character won't fit the 2nd chance theory, just to throw everyone for a loop.

Yeah, they did do that for the first Fighters Pass; then again it'd also be a curveball to NOT throw another curveball like that.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Finally having a reason to play Smash when a new DLC character gets dropped after several months be like:

Since I finished Sunshine, it's pretty much the only Switch game I use it for tbh.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Hmm, 2010s tourney. I don't think this is a full disconfirmation, but seeing as we're so close to the last stop and that they've skipped Tourneys before to use them later, I do think it's kind of weird.

...Frankly, at this point I dunno what to think lol. My MWs feel like dark horses at best right now, and the final picks of a cycle are usually not that exciting to me, so I'm mostly just going along for the ride.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So with what we know with cut and considered fighters here's my thought:
-Numerous retro character in Melee (Mach rider, Takamaru, Urban champion, Excitebike): I don't see those happening because it would be hard to do a whole fighter pack based on those simple NES game. It doesn't help that Takamaru and Mach rider already have medley of pretty much all the music of their game.
-Ayumi: Probably more likely than the other retro characters because of the remake, but since the translation was made later I'm not sure if the timing would work.
-Krystal: I don't think were getting more Star fox content anytime soon
-The Nintendog: Ok that would actually be very cool but probably not happening
-Dixie kong: Could happen but she would need to be different enough to Diddy
-Chorus kid: I doubt it but considering how little content Rhythm heaven have I guess it could
-Alucard: I doubt we will have another Castlevania character considering that the franchise already have a huge amount of content
-Decidueye: I doubt we will get a second gen 7 Pokémon and not a gen 8

So yeah in my opinion most of them are not extremely likely, with the most likely probably being Ayumi, Chorus kids/Rhythm heaven character or Dixie if Sakurai have enough moveset idea.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

-The Nintendog: Ok that would actually be very cool but probably not happening

Wait they actually considered a Nintendog?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Wait they actually considered a Nintendog?

I think they’re on the same “not suited for combat” slide as Villager

 

[SKX31]

Heat Haze Shadow gets louder

Y'all are not ready:

Hmm, 2010s tourney. I don't think this is a full disconfirmation, but seeing as we're so close to the last stop and that they've skipped Tourneys before to use them later, I do think it's kind of weird.

...Frankly, at this point I dunno what to think lol. My MWs feel like dark horses at best right now, and the final picks of a cycle are usually not that exciting to me, so I'm mostly just going along for the ride.

Worth noting that the 90s tournament was late February 2020 and the 2000s tournament was in June 2020, merely a week before Min Min was unveiled and a few months before Steve. With that in mind I really don't think the 2010s tournament means much if anything for speculation, even if it is certainly fun to speculate around.

 

[epicmartin7]

I dunno


I kinda subscribe that the last character won't fit the 2nd chance theory, just to throw everyone for a loop.

Good point. Could potentially be a character planned last minute or something.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Wait they actually considered a Nintendog?

On the source gaming article about unused fighter it say that Nintendog was momentarily considered but rejected in Brawl because they wouldn't be suited for a fight.

 

[Shroob]

Good point. Could potentially be a character planned last minute or something.

This is how Nabohino wins

Did you hear anything? I didn't.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On the source gaming article about unused fighter it say that Nintendog was momentarily considered but rejected in Brawl because they wouldn't be suited for a fight.

Everybody's gangster 'till Sakurai finds a way to have the puppy recklessly play with the other fighters.

 

[Perkilator]

Eh I still think "We could get another sonic rep because second chance" is more "i want one so sakurai does too" than anything else. You may not like Sonic's music/spirit selection, but it's still not as abysmal as FFVII in base's.

Not really, no. I just think Sonic could fit into the theory, even if its case pales in comparison to FF (Xenoblade was in a similar boat).

...I mostly just want Sonic's song selection to not suck.

 

[WeirdAlFan101]

Was a second Sonic character ever even considered previously? I can't seem to recall.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Not really, no. I just think Sonic could fit into the theory, even if its case pales in comparison to FF (Xenoblade was in a similar boat).

...I mostly just want Sonic's song selection to not suck.

You do realize you've probably proved his point in his eyes with that last sentence right?

 

[SNEKeater]

I saw people discussing whether or not Heihachi was really ditched for the lack of Devil Gene, and I've been thinking about that a little. I'm still taking Sakurai's words at face value here; From the looks of it, he probably saw them as roughly equal in prominence and felt Kazuya could do most of what Heihachi could on top of the Devil Gene flair, and so he just opted for Kazuya over Heihachi based on that.

I don't really see anything weird with Sakurai choosing Kazuya because of the Devil Gene. Some would call this revisionism, but after his announcement, I already imagined that was one of the reasons for Sakurai to go with Kazuya. It makes sense. Not the most consistent Tekken fan in the world, but as I said multiple times I played a lot of Tekken during the PS1 and PS2 days. And I never felt Heihachi was the only posterboy of the series. In my experience I always had Jin in mind first if I thought of Tekken, maybe because the ones I played the most were T3 and T5, but these 2 are also the most popular entries in the series, alongside 7.

As others have said, the spotlight in the series is shared by Heihachi, Kazuya and Jin. And while I admit that I, like most of the community, expected Heihachi for a Tekken rep, in my case that line of thinking was because of Heihachi's costume and Sakurai words on him back during Smash 4 was the only evidence we had for Tekken, so it was natural for us to believe that Heihachi would be our rep.

Maybe Sakurai felt Heihachi was more fitting for a costume. Or maybe he actually thought Heihachi was the best option, then he changed his mind. It's also true that it's obvious that for DLC characters he tries to make each one of them unique in some way, and Kazuya certainly had more in his favour considering he has Devil Gene. Who knows, if Tekken was added during base game, maybe we would have Heihachi and not Kazuya.

 

[Megadoomer]

I'm guessing that if these two "mystery spots" on the update menu are promotional spirits, they're going to be particularly rough ones if the Mii costumes are any indication. (though hopefully one of them is like the Ghosts 'n' Goblins spirit, where the game in question isn't full price)

 

[Guynamednelson]

So with what we know with cut and considered fighters here's my thought:
-Numerous retro character in Melee (Mach rider, Takamaru, Urban champion, Excitebike): I don't see those happening because it would be hard to do a whole fighter pack based on those simple NES game. It doesn't help that Takamaru and Mach rider already have medley of pretty much all the music of their game.
-Ayumi: Probably more likely than the other retro characters because of the remake, but since the translation was made later I'm not sure if the timing would work.
-Krystal: I don't think were getting more Star fox content anytime soon
-The Nintendog: Ok that would actually be very cool but probably not happening
-Dixie kong: Could happen but she would need to be different enough to Diddy
-Chorus kid: I doubt it but considering how little content Rhythm heaven have I guess it could
-Alucard: I doubt we will have another Castlevania character considering that the franchise already have a huge amount of content
-Decidueye: I doubt we will get a second gen 7 Pokémon and not a gen 8

So yeah in my opinion most of them are not extremely likely, with the most likely probably being Ayumi, Chorus kids/Rhythm heaven character or Dixie if Sakurai have enough moveset idea.

If we're listing other characters Sakurai might've considered, there's still...more to doubt.

• Blastoise: Was ultimately replaced by Squirtle, has competition with Gen 8 when it comes to Pokemon in general, and Meowth or Eevee if they revisit gen 1
• Toon Zelda/Tetra: We haven't had toon LoZ games in a while, the duo would need to be a whole lot different than she would've been in Brawl, are they ever planning on re-rereleasing the HD releases the Wii U got?
• Plusle & Minun: Ultimately depends on if pra_mai really was meant to be them, and if popularity is why a new Pokemon gets in over gen 8 shilling, they struggle on official polls in comparison to numerous other gen 3 mons and Pikaclones, and speaking of clones Sakurai would need to find a way to make them less like Pikachu if they were meant to be a last-minute clone.

 

[CannonStreak]

On the source gaming article about unused fighter it say that Nintendog was momentarily considered but rejected in Brawl because they wouldn't be suited for a fight.

If you don't mind, here is a moveset I made for the Nintendog.

Spoiler: Nintendog Moveset

Nintendog

Coming from the Nintendogs series, the Nintendog joins the battle. As a cute, but serious fighter, the Nintendog does lots of tricks as attacks, as well as use paw swipes, use its tail and bites for attacks. Whatever breed it is depends on the latest Smash game it is in. It may look cute, but it is capable of fighting on the battlefield. Its special moves are...

B: Jump Rope: The Nintendog's "owner" and another Nintendog appear out of nowhere and start using a jump rope, which the playable Nintendog jumps up and down continuously. Anyone caught in the jump rope will take damage, and after taking enough damage, will be tangled in the rope, with the angry Nintendog biting the opponent. This can be done in the air.

B Side: Frisbee Catch: A frisbee is thrown out of nowhere, and with that, the dog jumps after it, hitting any opponent that is in the way.

B Up: Helicopter Toy: A helicopter toy appears and lifts the Nintendog upwards, damaging opponents above it.

B Down: Run Around: The Nintendog runs around the nearest opponent, but this does nothing if no one is nearby. If the Nintendog is able to run around the opponent for a full second without being hit, the opponent gets dizzy for a second, making it open for a quick attack. This is a dash and bite attack in the air.

Final Smash: Nintendog Charge: The Nintendog dashes towards an opponent. If no one is hit, nothing happens, but if someone is hit, a cutscene happens where the opponent(s) are surrounded by a number of charging Nintendogs, which includes some cats. They then attack the opponent(s), with some toys coming in to attack the characters, and after enough damage is done, the playable Nintendog appears, leaps towards the screen and bites, sending the opponent(s) flying, possibly offstage afterward.

Also, the Nintendog has a mechanic: The Cuteness meter. Unlike other meters, this has the Nintendo at full power at zero damage, but it decreases until it reaches 100%. With this, the Nintendog is at full power at 0 percent and strong at low percentages, but the meter can slowly be refilled by dodging attacks, attacking and shielding.

What do you all think?

 

[Aerospherology]

I'm guessing that if these two "mystery spots" on the update menu are promotional spirits, they're going to be particularly rough ones if the Mii costumes are any indication. (though hopefully one of them is like the Ghosts 'n' Goblins spirit, where the game in question isn't full price)

What games could the Spirits possibly be for? Game Builder Garage? Alex Kidd? Doki Doki Literature Club? Among Us?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What games could the Spirits possibly be for? Game Builder Garage? Alex Kidd? Doki Doki Literature Club? Among Us?

if we got DDLC spirits they’d probably have to be “disguised” among like a Pink event or something like how Lotus was introduced. For context, Warframe is an M rated game so maybe that’s why Lotus’s spirit introduction was so… unconventional

 

[Megadoomer]

What games could the Spirits possibly be for? Game Builder Garage? Alex Kidd? Doki Doki Literature Club? Among Us?

I'm expecting something like the Ninja Gaiden Master Collection (though I'm hoping that's not the case). I hadn't thought about that new Alex Kidd game, but I could see that getting a spirit.

if we got DDLC spirits they’d probably have to be “disguised” among like a Pink event or something like how Lotus was introduced. For context, Warframe is an M rated game so maybe that’s why Lotus’s spirit introduction was so… unconventional

Persona 5 Strikers (an M-rated game) got a promotional spirit, so it's possible that DDLC could get one. (though in the case of P5S, it was from a series that was already in Smash, so it's not quite the same thing)

 

[Shroob]

I'm expecting something like the Ninja Gaiden Master Collection. I hadn't thought about that new Alex Kidd game, but I could see that getting a spirit.

A Ryu Hayabusa spirit would be a huge oof, especially after the Mii wave lol.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

A Ryu Hayabusa spirit would be a huge oof, especially after the Mii wave lol.

and I want this to be willed into existence now to cause even more chaos

not that it matters much cuz I take Yasuda’s words as a VERY solid deconfirm

 

[Megadoomer]

A Ryu Hayabusa spirit would be a huge oof, especially after the Mii wave lol.

Yeah, that's why I'm expecting it - I feel like, after Dante, Shantae, Dragonborn, and Lloyd were turned into Mii costumes, they're going to go out of their way to indicate that certain characters aren't going to be playable so people don't get their hopes up.

Worst case scenario would be something like Ninja Gaiden Master Collection and Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time.