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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I'm going to fundamentally disagree with that. Sakurai saying "I thought maybe one or two more would suffice" does not mean that more were planned after the pass since the start. I'm also going to go so far as to say that FP2 was finalized before the "more DLC" announcement was made. Imran has also implied as much as he said the pass was finalized around E3 2019.
...And that changes a thing of what I said?

Cause sorry, but Verge's entire thing hard checks out.

He wasn't remotely wrong about Minecraft. He had all of base game right, and a small bit of DLC fully correct. We know negotiations can take a very long time. When it's told to us that it took five years, then it already proves Vergeben's information correct. He didn't know exactly what it was because it wasn't figured out yet. He also heard it way too early for it to have been finished negotiated for, since it was well before November 2018. Negotiations for Minecraft does make sense for taking that long when you realize Steve/Alex are not easy characters to create in any way. This taking as long as it did, and they took a long time to come out, is easily due to gameplay-related issues. Which really leaves Sephiroth and Min Min. Which one was meant for 2020? I mean, it'd be 2 characters to get out in 1 year, which is odd, but it fits the stuff they said. We also found data for more fighters later on, which suggests they had the idea to move Steve/Alex(who already were planned as bonuses) to be some kind of later pass possibly, which does explain why January 2020 was Byleth's potential release. Not December 2019(they just barely had the DLC done). Yes, they actually planned for it to go into the next year, which fits perfectly with having two bonus characters. So all of the timeline completely checks out in every way. If Byleth was delayed to be revealed at TGA(a rumor), it would've fit exactly what they said. Since it'd release that month.

His point was he wanted 1 or 2 more(my bad, not 2 or 3 like I was first saying), and got an entire pass instead. We still were pretty clearly going to get more. He wouldn't have been allowed to say more were coming unless they were planned. He can't just randomly give out that kind of major information, especially with Nintendo calling the DLC. Sakurai is heavily tied to what he's allowed to say by design. If he's even giving that information, that means it was cause it was in plans, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

You are aware he can barely say much about development, including company mishaps, because it would hurt that company's credibility, making Nintendo's ability to further negotiate much much harder. His lip is pretty much sealed as much as possible overall. Anything he says will be for a reason when it comes to Smash. There is absolutely no PR here. It either is a thing he planned, or his lips are sealed. He can't say any more could've existed unless they legit did. Now if he had control of the DLC, yes, sure. He doesn't. The only DLC character he chose at best was PP, and he already showed that all of Pass 2 was decided by Nintendo, which includes the bonus characters he pretty clearly said were an idea alone.
 

rychu_supadude

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The Chief leak is supposedly based on eShop datamining. You can't ignore that Vergeben never said anything until that news came out. It's not impossible that the last character was mined (if you even believe that Nintendo would make it possible for such a thing to happen) without getting Kazuya's info, but it remains highly implausible. You also don't drop a prediction right before E3 and then go "uh yeah, I meant the LATER reveal. Totally" when every time he mentioned a character after Hero it was days before the reveal at most.

When people talked about it being a 1-in-a-billion chance of events lining up for the Grinch hoax to be a hoax... Well, that's what we're ACTUALLY talking about for events lining up for a "Vergeben leaked Master Chief" scenario to be true. Frankly, if he happens at all it's an utter coincidence and not a leak.

His sources for Smash have dried up and he has a clear pattern of piggybacking on already popular rumours. What is the point in entertaining this?
 

epicmartin7

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The Chief leak is supposedly based on eShop datamining. You can't ignore that Vergeben never said anything until that news came out. It's not impossible that the last character was mined (if you even believe that Nintendo would make it possible for such a thing to happen) without getting Kazuya's info, but it remains highly implausible. You also don't drop a prediction right before E3 and then go "uh yeah, I meant the LATER reveal. Totally" when every time he mentioned a character after Hero it was days before the reveal at most.

When people talked about it being a 1-in-a-billion chance of events lining up for the Grinch hoax to be a hoax... Well, that's what we're ACTUALLY talking about for events lining up for a "Vergeben leaked Master Chief" scenario to be true. Frankly, if he happens at all it's an utter coincidence and not a leak.

His sources for Smash have dried up and he has a clear pattern of piggybacking on already popular rumours. What is the point in entertaining this?
It's not based on eshop datamining lmao. It was rumor stuff put into hashes as "proof" of sorts. Essentially an insurance policy. That's what I get from what NWPlayer posted anyway.
 
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SneakyLink

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The Chief leak is supposedly based on eShop datamining. You can't ignore that Vergeben never said anything until that news came out. It's not impossible that the last character was mined (if you even believe that Nintendo would make it possible for such a thing to happen) without getting Kazuya's info, but it remains highly implausible. You also don't drop a prediction right before E3 and then go "uh yeah, I meant the LATER reveal. Totally" when every time he mentioned a character after Hero it was days before the reveal at most.

When people talked about it being a 1-in-a-billion chance of events lining up for the Grinch hoax to be a hoax... Well, that's what we're ACTUALLY talking about for events lining up for a "Vergeben leaked Master Chief" scenario to be true. Frankly, if he happens at all it's an utter coincidence and not a leak.

His sources for Smash have dried up and he has a clear pattern of piggybacking on already popular rumours. What is the point in entertaining this?
If it were eshop datamining I'm in the camp that it is not Smash related.

To me it sounds like one of the following:
1. Someone riling the community up again.
2. Master Chief Collection coming to Switch? Halo on the go is a pretty sweet idea. (to me at least)
 
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DarthEnderX

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Yeah, we have to keep in mind that Verge still can be right about MC. I never wanted him as a character, but Verge have got much more things right than wrong in his track record.
Yeah, but if he's getting some things right, and other things wrong, that shows he doesn't actually KNOW anything. He's just been really lucky with guesses.
 

GoodGrief741

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My guess for why Sakurai probably did that was just to keep the identity of a Tekken rep in Smash a surprise. If Heihachi's costume didn't show up at all up until Kazuya, most people would've been guessing a Tekken rep. That, and Heihachi fit the theme of fighting games, which ARMS is and MinMin reps
I dread what would happen to speculation if that were to be the case. Because then every single person who said "maybe Sakurai's just lying/trolling!" would have precedent to back them up. Every single piece of new potential information would be taken by half the fanbase as a misdirect and evidence to the contrary. Sakurai says there are X characters in the game? Misdirect! A character gets a role as a boss? Gotta be a misdirect. A character gets a premium Mii Costume with a song? Dude, remember Heihachi? This could mean they're actually in!

Like I'm all for less stuff disconfirming but an explanation like that would just turn everything into a debate and nobody would agree with anyone on anything. If every piece of evidence is suspect there isn't really a case to be made for any side.
 

DarthEnderX

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honestly I don't use Miis in... any game really.
I'm playing video games to escape reality, not embrace my reality through a fictional avatar.
I play as Miis all the time, not to be myself, but to be one of the Mii-only characters.

Well, and because Brawler's moveset is legit one of my mains. But even then, I'm playing the Rude Mii I made, not a self-insert.
 
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MamaLuigi123456

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I play as Miis all the time, not to be myself, but to be one of the Mii-only characters.

Well, and because Brawler's moveset is legit one of my mains. But even then, I'm playing the Rude Mii I made, not a self-insert.
I understand the appeal of Miis and why they're in the games they're in.
I'd just rather play a Mario character in a Mario sports game, y'know?
 

CapitaineCrash

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Yeah, we have to keep in mind that Verge still can be right about MC. I never wanted him as a character, but Verge have got much more things right than wrong in his track record.
If you're talking Smash alone that is true. However, in general is track record is really shaky. A lot of game he leak did end up being true, but I remember that he said a lot of things that never happenned too.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I understand the appeal of Miis and why they're in the games they're in.
I'd just rather play a Mario character in a Mario sports game, y'know?
I... like both? The Miis are fine. They're almost always extras, not replacing anyone. They're super easy to port over and pretty important to the Wii U and Switch so they're there as usually extras. There's only a few games where they're the core playable characters(the Wii series of games, basically. Including Wii Fit).

That, and I think it worked well how they translated them to Smash. They aren't just Miis. Their point is to adapt to the game design. So they are custom characters in Smash instead of being a representation of the Wii series. Not saying this is good or bad, but this also makes them akin to Mr. Game & Watch, unique to Smash Bros. and partially created in how they work in it. Almost like an OC, but not actually. That said, them being a representation of the Smash Universe is still cool in a way.

I totally get where you're coming from, though. I honestly way prefer costumes over nothing. A bone is better to me. I mean, I have a ton of characters I like. Having a Mii costume of them is a godsend to me. I was very happy with the K. Rool costume(I won't lie it looks a little dumb, though).
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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So we're shilling in here aren't we now. Tsk tsk tsk.
:bayoglass: You're one to talk o leader of the Red Shell Hat gang.

I'm not being serious here.

Did you just call Smash Bros a Mario Sports game??


It's a Kirby spin-off that just features Mario as a playable snack.
No it's a Tales spin-off that doesn't have any Tales characters in it.
 

Twilord

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:bayoglass: You're one to talk o leader of the Red Shell Hat gang.

I'm not being serious here.


No it's a Tales spin-off that doesn't have any Tales characters in it.
No, it's a Digimon game. All the characters are virtual spirits, digital monsters, created from concentrated data relevant to their core concept taken from elsewhere. Cyberspace animism, the heart of most interpretations of the Digital Monster phenomenon.

When there is enough data and enough psychic energy (both easily produced via fandom) pertaining to one video game character they gain the ability to manifest into Smash Bros.
 

GoodGrief741

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Putting likelyness aside, how would people feel if Maxwell from Scribblenauts got in? Over in the Infinite thread, he's doing surprisingly well. Is there a hidden Scribblenauts fanbase on this site?
Scribblenauts is a wonder of game design and also around 70% of my childhood so yes I'd be over the moon to see him.

I've seen Maxwell do pretty well in the RTC thread so yeah I think at least on Smashboards there's a following for him. Anyone who grew up in the days of the DS has to be at least familiar with him, right?
 

Twilord

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Scribblenauts is a wonder of game design and also around 70% of my childhood so yes I'd be over the moon to see him.

I've seen Maxwell do pretty well in the RTC thread so yeah I think at least on Smashboards there's a following for him. Anyone who grew up in the days of the DS has to be at least familiar with him, right?
Is he the one where you drew on the screen to manifest parts of the game world? Or the one where words make stuff happen?
 

PLATINUM7

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Is he the one where you drew on the screen to manifest parts of the game world? Or the one where words make stuff happen?
The latter. You write a noun and it spawns. Then later games added adjectives to modify objects.

The former sounds like Drawn to Life.
 
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osby

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Not sure if anyone else noticed this but currently, Ultimate has an equal number of fully unique 1st party and 3rd party newcomers.

Nintendo fighters: :ultbyleth::ultincineroar::ultinkling::ultkrool::ultminmin:ultpiranha::ultpyra::ultridley:
Guest fighters: :ultsephiroth::ultsimon::ultsteve::ult_terry: :ultjoker::ultbanjokazooie::ulthero::ultkazuya:

Obviously when characters who are based on other fighters (:ultisabelle::ultdaisy::ultchrom::ultmythra::ultdarksamus: vs :ultrichter::ultken:) tip the balance in favor of Nintendo but it's interesting how close we are to having even quantities.
 
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Idon

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Not sure if anyone else noticed this but currently, Ultimate has an equal number of fully unique 1st party and 3rd party newcomers.

Nintendo fighters: :ultbyleth::ultincineroar::ultinkling::ultkrool::ultminmin:ultpiranha::ultpyra::ultridley:
Guest fighters: :ultsephiroth::ultsimon::ultsteve::ult_terry: :ultjoker::ultbanjokazooie::ulthero::ultkazuya:

Obviously when characters who are based on other fighters (:ultisabelle::ultdaisy::ultchrom::ultmythra::ultdarksamus: vs :ultrichter::ultken:) tip the balance in favor of Nintendo but it's interesting how close we are to have even quantities.
Then the last character shall be the almighty tie-breaker. The chosen one.,
 

MarioRaccoon

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Not sure if anyone else noticed this but currently, Ultimate has an equal number of fully unique 1st party and 3rd party newcomers.

Nintendo fighters: :ultbyleth::ultincineroar::ultinkling::ultkrool::ultminmin:ultpiranha::ultpyra::ultridley:
Guest fighters: :ultsephiroth::ultsimon::ultsteve::ult_terry: :ultjoker::ultbanjokazooie::ulthero::ultkazuya:

Obviously when characters who are based on other fighters (:ultisabelle::ultdaisy::ultchrom::ultmythra::ultdarksamus: vs :ultrichter::ultken:) tip the balance in favor of Nintendo but it's interesting how close we are to have even quantities.
Technically, Isabelle is considered an unique fighter, so its 9 first party vs 8 third party. Also, only one new fighter per IP. If CP11 is a new third party character, it will end up equally between first and third party fighters.
 
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Cosmic77

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In addition to Isabelle, Mythra is unique enough to be a semi-clone (hence why she got a number). I know the point was to only acknowledge fully unique characters, but the ratio should really be ten first-parties and eight third-parties.

Just depends on how you look at the characters. If you include Echoes or only look at fighters with a number, first-parties win. If it's fully unique, then it's a tie.
 

subterrestrial

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Putting likelyness aside, how would people feel if Maxwell from Scribblenauts got in? Over in the Infinite thread, he's doing surprisingly well. Is there a hidden Scribblenauts fanbase on this site?
been one of my most wanteds for a while now

lmao just imagine typing words mid match to summon stuff, handheld touchscreen would finally be optimal
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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In addition to Isabelle, Mythra is unique enough to be a semi-clone (hence why she got a number). I know the point was to only acknowledge fully unique characters, but the ratio should really be ten first-parties and eight third-parties.

Just depends on how you look at the characters. If you include Echoes or only look at fighters with a number, first-parties win. If it's fully unique, then it's a tie.
Or a regular clone, like Dr. Mario is.

I haven't really gone enough over her differences, though.

Remember, Echoes are not the same labels as clones. In fact, they have very specific official terms Sakurai uses; Echoes and Model Swap Fighters.

That said, Sakurai doesn't seem to really speak of a difference between Clones and Semi-Clones, more or less calling them the same thing. Probably cause for development purposes, it's not really a difference. It's unclear how he views much bigger cases like Ness being based upon Mario or Cloud and Corrin being based upon Ike. Wolf I'm not sure if he uses the actual term, but he seems to view him more as a Model Swap than a unique character.

It's complicated. XD
 

MaplePie

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Hmm I can only think of 3 characters that have evidence which involves a history with Smash before.

1.Rhythm Heaven Character(R.H. and the Tekken series were both supposed to have playable characters in Smash 4)
I assume they weren't implemented because of the 3DS' crappy hardware.

2.Lloyd Irving(Assuming his Mii costume from Smash 4 doesn't return with Kazuya. He will become very likely now.)

3.Porky Minch(Complete absence in Ultimate even with previous history with Brawl and Wii U. There was a chance to add his clay model spirit during the MOTHER 30th anniversary, but it didn't happen. Even with the capsule argument, that still doesn't explain the absence of Giygas and the Pig King Statue. A Giygas spirit is absent despite being an important key character in the MOTHER series.)
 

Cosmic77

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Or a regular clone, like Dr. Mario is.

I haven't really gone enough over her differences, though.

Remember, Echoes are not the same labels as clones. In fact, they have very specific official terms Sakurai uses; Echoes and Model Swap Fighters.

That said, Sakurai doesn't seem to really speak of a difference between Clones and Semi-Clones, more or less calling them the same thing. Probably cause for development purposes, it's not really a difference. It's unclear how he views much bigger cases like Ness being based upon Mario or Cloud and Corrin being based upon Ike. Wolf I'm not sure if he uses the actual term, but he seems to view him more as a Model Swap than a unique character.

It's complicated. XD
Either way, Sakurai seems to have some sort of idea which characters are more of a clone than others, hence why Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina got their own little section in Smash 4. Other characters like Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Falco remained with the rest of their franchise's characters. That tells me that the term "semi-clone" means something to Sakurai, even if he's never been vocal about it.

I don't know what the community considers Mythra to be, but I don't see why she wouldn't meet the criteria to be a semi-clone. Three of her specials are completely unique, and her speed (obviously), weight, and damage output are also different from Pyra.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I... like both? The Miis are fine. They're almost always extras, not replacing anyone. They're super easy to port over and pretty important to the Wii U and Switch so they're there as usually extras. There's only a few games where they're the core playable characters(the Wii series of games, basically. Including Wii Fit).

That, and I think it worked well how they translated them to Smash. They aren't just Miis. Their point is to adapt to the game design. So they are custom characters in Smash instead of being a representation of the Wii series. Not saying this is good or bad, but this also makes them akin to Mr. Game & Watch, unique to Smash Bros. and partially created in how they work in it. Almost like an OC, but not actually. That said, them being a representation of the Smash Universe is still cool in a way.

I totally get where you're coming from, though. I honestly way prefer costumes over nothing. A bone is better to me. I mean, I have a ton of characters I like. Having a Mii costume of them is a godsend to me. I was very happy with the K. Rool costume(I won't lie it looks a little dumb, though).
There's also Miitopia, which IMO is the height of Mii games. If you're up for wacky shenanigans: the game, then Miitopia is your game.


I think Super Smash Bros. has the worst implementation of Miis to be honest. They always had these fun little quirks from the endearing voices in Mario Kart (at least we have those now) to the famous bowling Easter egg to...everything in Miitopia. Here they seem pretty soulless in comparison. Combine that with them being strictly avatar characters in an all star fighting game (though I would argue they are all stars themselves, they're still not any specific character) and having mechanics that are mildly interesting at best, and you have the fighters that the community is the most apathetic too (at least from what I've seen).

I hope the next game will allow us to customize flavor animations so the Miis can have personalities. It would be cool if we could choose their render pose and victory fanfare as well. Giving them more interesting Special Moves would help too but that's a bit more difficult to handle.
 

Shroob

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There's also Miitopia, which IMO is the height of Mii games. If you're up for wacky shenanigans: the game, then Miitopia is your game.


I think Super Smash Bros. has the worst implementation of Miis to be honest. They always had these fun little quirks from the endearing voices in Mario Kart (at least we have those now) to the famous bowling Easter egg to...everything in Miitopia. Here they seem pretty soulless in comparison. Combine that with them being strictly avatar characters in an all star fighting game (though I would argue they are all stars themselves, they're still not any specific character) and having mechanics that are mildly interesting at best, and you have the fighters that the community is the most apathetic too (at least from what I've seen).

I hope the next game will allow us to customize flavor animations so the Miis can have personalities. It would be cool if we could choose their render pose and victory fanfare as well. Giving them more interesting Special Moves would help too but that's a bit more difficult to handle.
Put Miitopia's mii maker in Smash



They would never in a million years but my god it'd be both amazing and absolutely horrible.
 

cothero

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Yeah, but if he's getting some things right, and other things wrong, that shows he doesn't actually KNOW anything. He's just been really lucky with guesses.
That's funny. He got 97% of smash leaks right, then he commit one possible mistake (we'll have to wait until FP11 to see) and everyone act like: "See? I knew we couldn't trust this piece of ****".
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Either way, Sakurai seems to have some sort of idea which characters are more of a clone than others, hence why Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina got their own little section in Smash 4. Other characters like Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Falco remained with the rest of their franchise's characters. That tells me that the term "semi-clone" means something to Sakurai, even if he's never been vocal about it.

I don't know what the community considers Mythra to be, but I don't see why she wouldn't meet the criteria to be a semi-clone. Three of her specials are completely unique, and her speed (obviously), weight, and damage output are also different from Pyra.
...That sounds like a clone to me. Dr. Mario is pretty much almost the entire same point.

To me, semi-clone is "more than half of their moves are actually different, not just stat changes". It's a fan term, being the issue.

I think he might've used the word "clone" for just the trio too(or that was just a translation that wasn't necessarily accurate), other than Ken respectively being named the OG Clone(...Actually, I think he said Echo?). So he's aware of the terminology(though noting the paragraphs, he might not acknowledge the term, but of course he knows of it. He knows a lot about gaming and terms, yeah), but in all these cases, they aren't just Model Swap Fighters, they actually share the same moveset. This doesn't seem distinct at first in context.

But let's look at what he considered a Model Swap Fighter too; Ness and Wolf, who are very far off from the original, Ness even more so. So it looks more like Model Swap Fighter isn't strictly a gameplay term so much as a term for how the creation process is made.

It's not that clone is a bad term either. I mean, the whole point is to use another character to create one, modifying the moveset(or barely doing so). Ness not only shares the same model, but the moves have similarities too, but only really in the first Smash moreso. Some of his normals, his PK Fire, and that's... kind of it. So he still takes a bit from Mario but modifies the animations to "feel" unique.

Wolf clearly borrows a lot of animations and moves as is. Isabelle is another great Wolf situation. She blatantly has a lot of unique stuff, but was clearly based upon Villager's model. Then you have Young Link, and later Toon Link(Toon Link used Young Link's data to some degree. It's not clear how much of regular Link was used, though, either). In this case, he does talk about Wolf being model swapped from Fox overall. One thing to note is when it comes to Model Swap characters, he doesn't talk about veterans generally, unless they're special situations(the costumes being swapped into full characters in 4). He didn't even much talk about the Echoes in Ultimate either. He noted a few were "fan favorites", and that's... kind of it. Like, what, Ken got a bit, saying that Echoes aren't that different from Model Swap Fighters, comparing him to Dr. Mario specifically. The only regular clone left(according to the community. ...Which considering Pichu exists, well... huh. Cause it's not really that different from Pikachu in the same way as the other two Links are, now that BOTW Link exists).

Ultimate's an oddball too. Whereas most games had some last minute additions either to the roster(Smash 64, Melee, 4) or to the development despite being planned(Brawl), Ultimate specifically had all 75 characters planned from the start(69 veterans/model swap fighters/uniques and t Echoes). So it isn't like the rest of the series. In addition to that, we can guess at best some characters were done later in development. Any Echo that got glitchy issues, probably. Whereas some Echoes pretty clearly work fine(Daisy). Or maybe it's just that each Echo was done at the same time as their respective character. Who knows. We lack data.

I can't really think of more points to put out. But I'm not seeing a really good point in where the term Semi-Clone exists in development of Smash, or in any of Sakurai's statements(he doesn't actually acknowledge it. The lack of a statement when in context solely talking about something else doesn't mean he's saying they exist. In 4's case, he only acknowledges that the clone trio are 3 last minute Model Swap Fighters who used to be costumes. No more, no less). It doesn't mean he doesn't think they exist, just that we don't have any indication he has a unique view of them. As I said, there's some that blatantly stands out more than others. There's also cases of using a base for the data, not the model. PP used Bowser Jr. and Min Min used Captain Falcon as bases. ...You don't see the same model data here. As I said, it's complicated.

There's also Miitopia, which IMO is the height of Mii games. If you're up for wacky shenanigans: the game, then Miitopia is your game.


I think Super Smash Bros. has the worst implementation of Miis to be honest. They always had these fun little quirks from the endearing voices in Mario Kart (at least we have those now) to the famous bowling Easter egg to...everything in Miitopia. Here they seem pretty soulless in comparison. Combine that with them being strictly avatar characters in an all star fighting game (though I would argue they are all stars themselves, they're still not any specific character) and having mechanics that are mildly interesting at best, and you have the fighters that the community is the most apathetic too (at least from what I've seen).

I hope the next game will allow us to customize flavor animations so the Miis can have personalities. It would be cool if we could choose their render pose and victory fanfare as well. Giving them more interesting Special Moves would help too but that's a bit more difficult to handle.
I won't argue they're good variations, but basically, Sakurai turned them into Original Generation characters, similar to Giga Bowser, who originated in Smash. I can see why he did it that way. Cause the other option was making various NPC's playable. This way, he can please multiple people who can't get their character in, while providing a new gimmick, customs.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Put Miitopia's mii maker in Smash



They would never in a million years but my god it'd be both amazing and absolutely horrible.
Put Miitopia's Mii Maker on the Mii Maker.


Also put the Mii Maker on the bottom row of buttons instead of hiding them away in the settings menu.
 

Shroob

Sup?
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That's funny. He got 97% of smash leaks right, then he commit one possible mistake (we'll have to wait until FP11 to see) and everyone act like: "See? I knew we couldn't trust this piece of ****".
You see


If he had done this at all during his hayday, he'd have been crucified just as much then as he is now.



Vergeben is the guy who put honesty and legitimate leaks above everything else, it's kinda why despite being a leaker, there was somewhat of a begrudging respect for him, because if he said anything at all, you could believe him without a doubt.

Then base game ended, something that he got 100% correct mind you, and his info basically dried up.


He still had Minecraft and Square, but after that, what did he have? He leaked Terry.... after Nintendo already leaked SNK themselves, and he admitted to only having Byleth info super shortly beforehand.


After that? He went radio silent for a year in a half in regards to Smash, and he conveniently returned spouting the two popular rumors at the time, be it the 4 Champions and MC. And unlike every time in the past, where he'd stick around and defend himself because he knew his info was good... he ran. He's been completely MIA since E3. He's not trying to defend himself by saying "Master Chief is still coming!", the dude up and left.
 

SnowClaws

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
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Took a while to caught up with all of the E3 contents and Kazuya Smash moments.

I will made it short and sweet. It was alright overall. Nintendo E3 direct felt like a recap episode especially watching from the beginning all the way to the end of the entire E3 general presentation, with the exception of Bandai Namco. It was a good presentation for not having as much rumor/leak contents included in the showcase which spoil some of the surprise. The only bad part was the recap of games show up in other E3 presentation prior to the direct. Again, it was alright.

Oh man, oh man, Kazuya being CP10 and continuing the thread of franchise already in the game having even more contents as said character from their series is now a fighter in Smash.

Kazuya wouldn't been my prediction to represent Tekken, as I thought it could have been Jin after Heihachi became a Mii Costume. Though this is maybe because Tekken 3 was my entry point to the Tekken franchise, and Jin was the protagonist in the third entry after Kazuya's suppose death. Here, is some context on Jin's fighting style, in T3, Jin played a lot like Kazuya with some added moves from his mother. Jin only learned the Mishima fighting style after learning his mother went missing and he went to ask his grandfather Heihachi for help. He got betrayed at the end of T3, and awaken his Devil Gene. From there on, he decides to learn and taught himself some various martial arts to abandon the Mishima fighting style as he doesn't want to be associated with the Mishima. Only in devil form, does he ever go back to his old fighting style. I could see why Jin wasn't chosen as it would be a issue to switch two different fighting style on the fly between his human form and devil form.

Kazuya is a good choice, since he was the so-called protagonist from the first entry and one of the main villain in Tekken. Smash already introduced the villain Sephiroth as a DLC, so another villain was a possibilities. What wasn't expect was a another transformation character after Pyra/Mythra though Euden was so close to fulfilled that DLC role. Kazuya being the solo reveal prove that Min Min could also work as a solo reveal at E3 2020. It would been funny to have two E3 back to back being the solo reveal of a fighting game character.

I was going to made a post before the E3 direct on the Sakurai's presentation air date for CP10 being June 30. Why, June 30? It is fifteen days after Nintendo E3 direct and fifteen days before the The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD. I use the fable amiibo theory to made that calculation, I was off by two days. I guess using amiibo theory on Metriod Dread which is released on Oct. 8, it is either going to be Sep 21 (Tues) or 23 (Thurs) before fifteen days or after fifteen days Oct 25 (Mon) or 27 (Wed) assuming the presentation air date is a odd number. Most presentations are even number date, so maybe Sep 20 (Mon) or 22 (Wed) or Oct 26 (Tues) or 28 (Thurs). This is just calculation and it all depend on the September direct if doesn't feature only just content from only one series like the Mario direct. Who knows maybe final character reveal at December.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I won't argue they're good variations, but basically, Sakurai turned them into Original Generation characters, similar to Giga Bowser, who originated in Smash. I can see why he did it that way. Cause the other option was making various NPC's playable. This way, he can please multiple people who can't get their character in, while providing a new gimmick, customs.
I understand why the Miis were made the way they were (here's a short, mid, and long ranged fighter template to make whatever you want with. Go nuts), but I think the actual execution of that idea is a bit lacking. The biggest thing that bothers me about them is that they don't have that distinct Mii flair to them personality wise. I think it's because they're more serious, which I kind of get since this is a fighting game (a handful of other characters are more serious than normal as well), but it makes them much less entertaining to watch. That's why I mentioned being able to customize their flavor animations (taunts and stuff); so you could give the Mii whatever personality you want rather than having them be stuck with no personality.

As for the moveset, I don't think giving them a sports based moveset (given that the source material so far was mainly Wii Sports Resort and Mario Kart Wii) would have been a good call, and I do like Mii Brawler, Mii Gunner, and Mii Swordfighter as concepts. I just think the Special Moves tend to be kind of boring and uninspired (Mii Gunner especially has the majority of her moves adapted directly from other characters).

So...yeah. I think the Mii Fighters are a good concept with a pretty lackluster execution. They're not all that visually interesting (aside from the abominations you can make now like Creeper Sans) and the customization aspect isn't too terribly interesting in practice since a lot of the moves that you mix and match are moves we've already seen before, and often in similar combinations. That's not to say I never have fun with them, I just think they could be way better than they are.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
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Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
That's funny. He got 97% of smash leaks right, then he commit one possible mistake (we'll have to wait until FP11 to see) and everyone act like: "See? I knew we couldn't trust this piece of ****".
I mean, yeah? The dude is a leaker, so if he can't leak right then there's no use for him. Also I don't buy that "possible" part, you don't show up out of nowhere days before E3 and claim two characters and then get a cop out "oh maybe he was talking about the character that's months away from reveal".

It's not like he's a great guy either. Dude's on the record using ableist insults so I've zero qualms about tossing him in the garbage if he ain't useful anymore.
 
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