Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Perkilator]

I'm assuming that you meant Kuma (since they're both bears), but now I'm picturing Banjo acting like this:

While Kazooie watches with concern and confusion.

...Gotta love when I make typos that I didn't mean to.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

another one of the "indie character + song"-type Miis feels long overdue

Wish granted, now Among Us Mii Costume with this song.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

As for the Miis, I'll say what I said about Aegis' wave: I hope we get some weird ****. My favorite Mii Costume rounds are the ones where we just get some that have nothing to do with the character, so in the incredibly short intervals between the costume reveals, it feels like anything can happen. So having it just be "Tekken characters + Lloyd" would be pretty lame IMO. That was my issue with Sephiroth's Mii wave.

I dunno man, throw us some cooler stuff on the Namco front than just Tekken and Tales, another one of the "indie character + song"-type Miis feels long overdue, or we could get an unexpected third-party like Vault Boy or Altaïr, or a smaller character from one of the already-involved companies like Goemon or Arthur (SEGA and Capcom I think are goldmines of potential in that regard - where's my Captain Commando Mii, you cowards), another assist-to-Mii jump like the Squid Sisters or Bomberman - or another first-party costume, we haven't gotten a lotta those in DLC!

Point is, I want this Mii wave to be one of the wild ones.

Monokuma Mii and either Ori Brawler with this or Zagreus Swordfighter with this or even The Knight Swordfighter with any song or HECK IT Jill Stingray (VA-11 HALL-A) Brawler with this for my hopes and dreams this Mii segment

gotchu covered fam

watch that, if the Jill Mii is a thing it’ll actually show the logo but with a disclaimer, “VA-11 HALL-A RATED MATURE BY THE ESRB”

we got M-rated content past Joker, just not what you were expecting

 

[Jocario Zero]

Speaking of music: tekken tag tournament 2 had a song made by Snoop Dogg. Imagine that song in smash (very unlikely but it would be hilarious).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You mean real life?
Depends if you count movie actors since Sakurai considered James Bond once I think...

Well, he meant the character, who is "4th party" instead. ...Yeah, I'm going to keep typing it as non-game 3rd party since it's more accurate.

The actual person would be different. Since they're not an IP owned by someone, that would probably be a better 4th party definition. Now I wonder what actual terminology developers even use in that kind of situation. XD

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Quick what’s the font for the new ESRB disclaimer they used for Pyra/Mythra and Kazuya’s trailers

I’m gonna do a Thing(TM)

 

[Megadoomer]

With only one character left, does anyone still think that we're getting an M-rated character? I know that the theory was popular when, between Terry's release and Byleth's announcement, some ESRB policy appeared to change so that M-rated games couldn't be directly advertised in advertisements for games like Smash (leading to "Smash Bros. x ALTAIR" or "Smash Bros. x TRAVIS", and resulting in all of the series icons at the top of Fighters Pass advertisements being removed), and Fighters Pass 2 was also lacking those series icons.

However, PEGI seems even stricter about this sort of thing than the ESRB is, if the header for Kazuya's announcement is any indication:

North America:

Europe: (not sure if this was the case for Pyra/Mythra or Sephiroth)

Asia:

As a result, I'm not sure if removing the logos from FP2 was just a precaution or not. (so that way, if the rules changed so that they couldn't advertise T-rated games either, they wouldn't have to change anything) There are a few characters from M-rated games that I'd love to see in Smash (Dante, Doomguy, 2B, Ryu Hayabusa (if we're going by his modern games)...), but with one character left, I'm not sure. (then again, Smash 4 ended with Bayonetta, so they have no problem with ending off with one)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

With only one character left, does anyone still think that we're getting an M-rated character? I know that the theory was popular when, between Terry's release and Byleth's announcement, some ESRB policy appeared to change so that M-rated games couldn't be directly advertised in advertisements for games like Smash (leading to "Smash Bros. x ALTAIR" or "Smash Bros. x TRAVIS", and resulting in all of the series icons at the top of Fighters Pass advertisements being removed), and Fighters Pass 2 was also lacking those series icons.

However, PEGI seems even stricter about this sort of thing than the ESRB is, if the header for Kazuya's announcement is any indication:

North America:

Europe: (not sure if this was the case for Pyra/Mythra or Sephiroth)

Asia:

As a result, I'm not sure if removing the logos from FP2 was just a precaution or not. There are a few characters from M-rated games that I'd love to see in Smash (Dante, Doomguy, 2B, Ryu Hayabusa (if we're going by his modern games)...), but with one character left, I'm not sure. (then again, Smash 4 ended with Bayonetta, so they have no problem with ending off with one)

Given that Pyra/Mythra and Kazuya’s trailers now have disclaimers for when a game is rated above E10+ it’s possible that we could see a “(NAME) SERIES RATED MATURE BY THE ESRB” disclaimer with the logo

although, I don’t see another playable character from an M rated game. I can see a Mii from an M rated game with the logo and the “RATED MATURE” disclaimer though, at least for North America

 

[Mushroomguy12]

With only one character left, does anyone still think that we're getting an M-rated character? I know that the theory was popular when, between Terry's release and Byleth's announcement, some ESRB policy appeared to change so that M-rated games couldn't be directly advertised in advertisements for games like Smash (leading to "Smash Bros. x ALTAIR" or "Smash Bros. x TRAVIS", and resulting in all of the series icons at the top of Fighters Pass advertisements being removed), and Fighters Pass 2 was also lacking those series icons.

However, PEGI seems even stricter about this sort of thing than the ESRB is, if the header for Kazuya's announcement is any indication:

North America:

Europe: (not sure if this was the case for Pyra/Mythra or Sephiroth)

Asia:

As a result, I'm not sure if removing the logos from FP2 was just a precaution or not. (so that way, if the rules changed so that they couldn't advertise T-rated games either, they wouldn't have to change anything) There are a few characters from M-rated games that I'd love to see in Smash (Dante, Doomguy, 2B, Ryu Hayabusa (if we're going by his modern games)...), but with one character left, I'm not sure. (then again, Smash 4 ended with Bayonetta, so they have no problem with ending off with one)

That's weird, since for the Mii Costumes only the ESRB censored it, but not PEGI.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That's weird, since for the Mii Costumes only the ESRB censored it, but not PEGI.

With the new ESRB above E10 disclaimer I think they can still show the logo and give a disclaimer if it’s an M rated series the Mii’s coming from

 

[Guynamednelson]

Jill Mii

"Super Smash Bros. Ultimate X Jill"

"Jill Valentine?"

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

With only one character left, does anyone still think that we're getting an M-rated character? I know that the theory was popular when, between Terry's release and Byleth's announcement, some ESRB policy appeared to change so that M-rated games couldn't be directly advertised in advertisements for games like Smash (leading to "Smash Bros. x ALTAIR" or "Smash Bros. x TRAVIS", and resulting in all of the series icons at the top of Fighters Pass advertisements being removed), and Fighters Pass 2 was also lacking those series icons.

However, PEGI seems even stricter about this sort of thing than the ESRB is, if the header for Kazuya's announcement is any indication:

North America:

Europe: (not sure if this was the case for Pyra/Mythra or Sephiroth)

Asia:

As a result, I'm not sure if removing the logos from FP2 was just a precaution or not. (so that way, if the rules changed so that they couldn't advertise T-rated games either, they wouldn't have to change anything) There are a few characters from M-rated games that I'd love to see in Smash (Dante, Doomguy, 2B, Ryu Hayabusa (if we're going by his modern games)...), but with one character left, I'm not sure. (then again, Smash 4 ended with Bayonetta, so they have no problem with ending off with one)

It's because Tekken is 16 in Europe, which is basically a low M rating in the US.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It's because Tekken is 16 in Europe, which is basically a low M rating in the US.

Interesting that Assassin’s Creed is 12+ in Europe, basically a perfect T, but M in US/Canada

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's because Tekken is 16 in Europe, which is basically a low M rating in the US.

At the same time, Fallout and Assassin's Creed are 18 and didn't get their names censored in EU Mii Costume trailers.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anyway I am once again asking for the font they use for the “RATED T BY THE ESRB” disclaimers for Pythra and Kazuya’s trailers

I need it for something

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

At the same time, Fallout and Assassin's Creed are 18 and didn't get their names censored in EU Mii Costume trailers.

I guess PEGI's gotten stricter then.

 

[ahemtoday]

Imagine Super Smash Bros. with top of the line hardware though. Character based light sources like Charizard's tail, Pyra/Mythra's core & ether lines, Pit's arm rings, and Luma's entire body actually lighting up the areas around them (or at least glowing in the dark), characters that aren't affected by the lighting like Mr. Game & Watch and Enderman's eyes being very noticeable due to this trait...

OK it would mostly just be a lighting change since photorealism is not a good idea, but it would still be gorgeous.

See, I don't know how much I'd be into that. In general, I'm not that big of a fan of how super-realistic lighting is the only type of lighting we get these days.

 

[Brother AJ]

I still think, like a lot of other people, that Resident Evil is the most glaring omission so far from this game. The spirits alone just don't do it justice IMHO.

I have to wonder if this really is just a matter of finding the horror aspects too difficult to implement. That's the only thing that makes sense at this point to me... Perhaps Sakurai thinks he would have to take too much away from RE to make it work.

 

[Munchi]

That's weird, since for the Mii Costumes only the ESRB censored it, but not PEGI.

Something curious is that the Spanish trailer appears Super Smash Bros Ultimate x Tekken but on the official Spanish page it appears Super Smash Bros Ultimate x Kazuya

 

[Slime Master]

I remember back when we were discussing "smash ultimate x vault boy" stuff the conclusion was some kind of policy change within ESRB (or one of the rating systems); it may have even been confirmed, but I don't recall any of the details so IDK. Anyway, it's possible something similar happened to both ESRB and PEGI since last time this came up.

Also friendly reminder that this means nothing for the character picks, they wouldn't drop a character this far in for something as easy to work around as this. Not that this isn't an interesting discussion in it's own right, just thought I'd nip that in the bud.

 

[Lyncario]

Interesting that Assassin’s Creed is 12+ in Europe, basically a perfect T, but M in US/Canada

I find it pretty interesting how the 16 rating of Pegi is often a midway between T and M. For example, Astral Chain is rated T by the ersb, but 16 by Pegi. In a similar vein, Persona 5 is rated M by ersb, but 16 by Pegi.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

For the mii costume, if we have other Namco IP I could see Solaire from Dark souls being a Swordfighter.

 

[Cosmic77]

If they're already finding ways to work around this when Pyra and Kazuya were revealed, I don't see why they couldn't do it again with F11.

That being said, I kinda want another character from a franchise that's meant for all ages, like Steve or Banjo. A majority of the characters we've gotten as DLC target teens and young adults. Nothing wrong with that, but there's a certain charm to those lighthearted, fun characters.

 

[Faso115]

I still think, like a lot of other people, that Resident Evil is the most glaring omission so far from this game. The spirits alone just don't do it justice IMHO.

I have to wonder if this really is just a matter of finding the horror aspects too difficult to implement. That's the only thing that makes sense at this point to me... Perhaps Sakurai thinks he would have to take too much away from RE to make it work.

View attachment 319952

The last three reveals taught me to try to guess game instead of character and you are more likely to guess something correctly.

There is still room for Resident Evil character but you have to wonder what character could it be. Claire is still on the board but i think Nemesis is a super slept on choice that would make sense. It would be aping on Sephiroth and Kazuya's appeal as villains but hey, i would love to have another villain. Plus another mahvel character cant hurt right

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

See, I don't know how much I'd be into that. In general, I'm not that big of a fan of how super-realistic lighting is the only type of lighting we get these days.

It wouldn't really be realistic lighting though (on most stages at least) since it's designed to make the areas it's depicting look good regardless of where they came from.

For example, stages like Flat Zone X and Minecraft World probably wouldn't have these lighting changes at all because it would ruin the aesthetic (Game & Watch systems don't have lighting as it's thought of nowadays, and Minecraft can't actually do dynamic lighting without that NVIDIA mod, which is not the aesthetic they'd go for).

There may even be a handful or more of stages that don't have any immediately noticeable changes since the lighting was already about as good as it could look.

 

[Noler_Mass]

I hope they end with something cartoony, or even a classic Nintendo character. Would balance out the edge from the last few picks.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I hope they end with something cartoony, or even a classic Nintendo character. Would balance out the edge from the last few picks.

Ah yes, Pyra: The embodiment of edge.

 

[ahemtoday]

It wouldn't really be realistic lighting though (on most stages at least) since it's designed to make the areas it's depicting look good regardless of where they came from.

For example, stages like Flat Zone X and Minecraft World probably wouldn't have these lighting changes at all because it would ruin the aesthetic (Game & Watch systems don't have lighting as it's thought of nowadays, and Minecraft can't actually do dynamic lighting without that NVIDIA mod, which is not the aesthetic they'd go for).

There may even be a handful or more of stages that don't have any immediately noticeable changes since the lighting was already about as good as it could look.

Yeah, right, but outside of a few outliers most of the stages in the game are pretty in line with each other aesthetically, so they'd have the same style of lighting.

I guess "realistic" is the wrong word. Like, look at a track in Mario Kart: Double Dash and then look at that same track in Mario Kart 8. The MK8 versions are all washed-out and much less striking to look at, so they don't feel like the clearly better versions when they by all rights should be given the better hardware.

I know that part of this is due to the textures involved rather than the lighting, but if you put the same style of lighting as MK8 in MK:DD, I can't imagine it looking good.

 

[Momotsuki]

Rest in peace.

Two years since the passing of Etika. We still miss everything about you and we hope you've been resting in peace. The JOYCON BOYZ will continue to honor you no matter what happens in the future!

Please look out for one another, and be there for those that need it. 🖤 pic.twitter.com/wox9ISV9hg

— Etika Memories (@EtikaMemories) June 19, 2021

**** really just hasn't been the same without him. Sometimes it's easy to forget he's really gone.
I still think a lot about how he would've reacted to the Sans Mii outfit and Steve. One can only hope he saw it from wherever he is now. I miss him a lot, but I'm sure it's nothing compared to what his close friends and family have been through.

 

[2006ToyotaTacoma]

For the mii costume, if we have other Namco IP I could see Solaire from Dark souls being a Swordfighter.

I'm definitely expecting either him or Chosen Undead to appear as a Mii Costume with this wave.

 

[RoboFist]

Okay, so now that the storm has calmed down...

- I know nothing of Tekken. I've never touched a Tekken game, I don't have any attachment to Tekken, I honestly don't care to ever play Tekken.

All that being said, I'm just happy that Bamco finally has its Ultimate rep. It seems like, if Pac-Man is their mascot, then Tekken is their flagship series. So it's cool seeing something seemingly long overdue finally come to fruition.

- I'm a little bummed out because I was hoping for a Soul Calibur rep. Soul Cal is my second favorite fighting game franchise after Smash and I would've loved to see some representation.

Which leads me to Mii Costumes. Come on, Nintendo, at least give me some silly-looking chibi Nightmare, Xianghua, or Mitsurugi costumes. It's now or never.

- I know y'all are sick of "theories", but I can't help but believe that Kazuya's inclusion adds more credence to the "Fighter Pass 2 Wraps Up Loose Ends" theory. Bamco's only Fighter was Pac-Man introduced back in Smash 4. It was insane that the company co-developing the game didn't have a new Fighter at all, especially in what is considered the "ultimate" Smash. Now they finally do.

I'd 100% consider that wrapping up a loose end. Arguably one of the more important ones, even.

- One Fighter left. One by one, all of my remaining most-wanteds are being deconfirmed. I'm not sure if I'm prepared for the amount of internet salt the final character will cause...

But one thing is for sure: Once again, any and all leakers have been proven wrong. There are no people with insider info. None. Zero. Everyone - from Resetera to 4chan to Twitter - is flying in the dark. Remember that next time someone insists the next character "has" to be Hayabusa or Crash.

I love that nobody knows. Keeps this final lap so exciting.

 

[Brother AJ]

The last three reveals taught me to try to guess game instead of character and you are more likely to guess something correctly.

There is still room for Resident Evil character but you have to wonder what character could it be. Claire is still on the board but i think Nemesis is a super slept on choice that would make sense. It would be aping on Sephiroth and Kazuya's appeal as villains but hey, i would love to have another villain. Plus another mahvel character cant hurt right

Nemesis would cool, or Mr. X... I don't think the spirits completely count out the main characters of RE, but it might be a long shot. I suppose I could cling to the "second chance" thing again as I'm sure Sakurai has considered RE in the past at this point, and hope he can make it work like he did for Tekken. He even said he's been playing RE Village in a recent interview, so who knows?

 

[Momotsuki]

With only one character left, does anyone still think that we're getting an M-rated character? I know that the theory was popular when, between Terry's release and Byleth's announcement, some ESRB policy appeared to change so that M-rated games couldn't be directly advertised in advertisements for games like Smash (leading to "Smash Bros. x ALTAIR" or "Smash Bros. x TRAVIS", and resulting in all of the series icons at the top of Fighters Pass advertisements being removed), and Fighters Pass 2 was also lacking those series icons.

However, PEGI seems even stricter about this sort of thing than the ESRB is, if the header for Kazuya's announcement is any indication:

North America:

Europe: (not sure if this was the case for Pyra/Mythra or Sephiroth)

Asia:

As a result, I'm not sure if removing the logos from FP2 was just a precaution or not. (so that way, if the rules changed so that they couldn't advertise T-rated games either, they wouldn't have to change anything) There are a few characters from M-rated games that I'd love to see in Smash (Dante, Doomguy, 2B, Ryu Hayabusa (if we're going by his modern games)...), but with one character left, I'm not sure. (then again, Smash 4 ended with Bayonetta, so they have no problem with ending off with one)

"Super Smash Bros. Ultimate x KAZUYA" is actually pathetic, holy hell. Juvenile is right.
More so than the two Mii costumes since here they're actually trying to call the main collaboration that.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Just for fun, I decided to make a lineup for "Ultimate DLC in a parallel universe"--a series of characters that replace the DLC fighters we got, but are from the same companies, fill similar character niches, or both.

Thus far, I have...

• Demi-Fiend replacing Joker (From Persona's parent series. Seems the most iconic of the SMT protags, Nocturne HD was presumably planned/in production at the time.)
  • Alternate: Nahobino (If we were allowed to shuffle release orders to make this slot later.)
• Neku Sakuraba replacing Hero (Another Square Enix RPG franchise not previously in Smash. Tied to Nintendo systems, Final Remix came out previous year, anime and NEO in production at the time.)
• Toxtricity replacing Byleth (Another first-party added to a series that would garner some controversy over whether their series is overrepresented.)
  • Alternate: like, any other Sword/Shield Pokemon (I chose Toxtricity because I wanted to diverge from the starter mold, Toxtricity seems decently popular, and a Poison/Electic type just seems like a neat concept.)
• Officer Howard replacing Min Min (Another Nintendo series that debuted on the Switch.)
• Noctis replacing Sephiroth (Another Final Fantasy character, considerably more recent.)
• Agumon replacing Kazuya (Another Bandai Namco series.)
  • Alternate: a SoulCalibur rep (If you wanted to stick to a Namco fighting game.)

I'm having trouble coming up with analogues for Piranha Plant, Banjo & Kazooie, Terry, Steve, and Pyra/Mythra. One thing I should note is that I don't necessarily want all of these to be "obvious" picks--one could easily put Master Chief for Banjo or Steve, but I'd like something more interesting for that slot if possible.

Edit: Thanks to more time thinking and having discussion elsewhere, I've completed my list.

• Kamek replacing Piranha Plant (Mario-adjacent. Could technically be considered a basic enemy due to being identical to ordinary Magikoopas.)
• Genoreplacing Banjo & Kazooie (Fan-favorite character that has not had any prominent appearances for some time.)
  • Alternate: Isaac (Also fan-favorite character that has not had any prominent appearances for some time.)
• Kyo Kusanagi replacing Terry (Protagonist of early King of Fighters, as opposed to a pre-KoF series.)
• Ahri replacing Steve (Huge 2010s game that is often ignored or considered unlikely for Smash.)
• KOS-MOSreplacing Pyra/Mythra (Another Monolith Soft character. Technically not the player character.)
  • Alternate: Elma (Another Xenoblade character. Also technically not the player character.)

: Waluigi - Mario characters with weird movesets. Waluigi’s moveset would pull from the Mario Sports games, Mario Party & Mario Kart.

: Edelgard - I’m 100% fine with a Three Houses character in Smash, but I don’t like how Byleth plays so I’ll swap them out with someone who could end up being more fun.

: Officer Howard - Another Switch era new Nintendo IP.

: Mipha - Another Switch era character from a series already in Smash.

I love all the third parties & wouldn’t trade them. The Nintendo DLC choices haven’t been my cup of tea, besides Byleth to an extent, so they get changed around.

 

[7NATOR]

Anyone thinking that there could be another thing like Sephiroth Challenge for Kazuya?

Kazuya was a Boss before in Tekken 2 (and In Tekken 7) so It's possible that this might be the case.

I think also something that could be interesting depends on whether Devil form really is just a Visual Flair for certain attacks, or an actual Mechanic. If it's the former, I could see one, or some of his Alts be just based on Devil, where he's always in Devil Form and he has no Pants. They could easily simulate Tekken 2 Boss Fight by having Kazuya round 1, Devil Round 2

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I hope they end with something cartoony, or even a classic Nintendo character. Would balance out the edge from the last few picks.

I'll give you both.

 

[Ivander]

But one thing is for sure: Once again, any and all leakers have been proven wrong. There are no people with insider info. None. Zero. Everyone - from Resetera to 4chan to Twitter - is flying in the dark. Remember that next time someone insists the next character "has" to be Hayabusa or Crash.

I love that nobody knows. Keeps this final lap so exciting.

People say that, but considering people came back to Verge after Steve was announced, I wouldn't be surprised if people came back to leakers if the last character ended up being Master Chief or the BotW Champions that they were predicting earlier.

The last character is either going to stop the cycle or bring it right back around.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Since Verge doesn't think Hayabusa is possible anymore, I've decided to suddenly stop believing him.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, right, but outside of a few outliers most of the stages in the game are pretty in line with each other aesthetically, so they'd have the same style of lighting.

Eh, I think it would be more stage dependent. Maybe all of the grassland stages would be lit similarly, but they wouldn't be lit the same as darker stages like Shadow Moses Island, Fountain of Dreams, Final Destination, ect., and none of them would really look the same as Kalos Pokémon League, which is lit through stained glass... I really do think the stage would change a lot about how it would look, especially if they leaned into the original artstyles just a tad more (though how much you could really do that would depend on a lot of things).

I guess "realistic" is the wrong word. Like, look at a track in Mario Kart: Double Dash and then look at that same track in Mario Kart 8. The MK8 versions are all washed-out and much less striking to look at, so they don't feel like the clearly better versions when they by all rights should be given the better hardware.

I'll have to disagree. Taking a look at Baby Park, the colors are actually super washed out on the GameCube compared to the Switch (or at least, they're intentionally not all that vibrant). There are some aesthetic touches I like better on the GameCube version such as the design of the start banner and the Shine Sprite carousel, but the Switch version is definitely more visually striking (if a bit intentionally garish).

Perhaps that's an exception to the rule, but I don't really know which tracks come from where off hand so I'm not able to check all that quickly.

I know that part of this is due to the textures involved rather than the lighting, but if you put the same style of lighting as MK8 in MK:DD, I can't imagine it looking good.

It probably wouldn't, but that likely would have more to do with the fact that the area wasn't built for it. A lot of the stuff in there consists of pictures, so changing the lighting at all would probably make things look a ton worse.

 

[Twilord]

I'll give you both.

Newdonkian Ambipom?