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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Schnee117

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If the point is that Tekken didn't get the film and merch around that era then fine that's true to an extent, the film wasn't out until 2009, but the point is being made with disgustingly broad strokes that kill it.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Isaac is a Popular character, but he isn't the only one though. Among Assist Characters, besides Waluigi, you got Shadow, Shovel Knight, Bomberman, Skull Kid, etc

Among other Nintendo characters, there is Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Waluigi, Another Zelda character
Yes, you're right, he does have competition in those regards. Doesn't mean he has a 0% chance though, and I'd accept several of those other AT/first party choices.
 

volbound1700

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I think he means that your Ignoring other characters that have similar merits to Isaac, or even better ones

Isaac is a Popular character, but he isn't the only one though. Among Assist Characters, besides Waluigi, you got Shadow, Shovel Knight, Bomberman, Skull Kid, etc

Among other Nintendo characters, there is Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Waluigi, Another Zelda character

Isaac isn't exclusive in the reasons he would be chosen for. Now of course that doesn't mean he wouldn't be chosen, It's just that there are other characters to factor, but only one slot left





I think that is what Gwen means. That is factually untrue that Tekken never got movies and toys and such. I will say that I don't think they were as popular as Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat in this regard, but there were there.
Link to movie because I don't remember a Tekken movie on the level of these movies:






What Gwen said that was wrong is that I was arguing that Tekken did not deserve to be in Smash. That is in his/her posts. I NEVER said that, in fact I said the OPPOSITE most of the time through this thread. I also never denied Tekken was HUGE, I just stated that in MY AREA, it was drowned out by MK and SF so I didn't know the Roster as much.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I automatically read this in Dr. Light's voice. lol

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll probably add the Zero one to the list since it's for a hypothetical Zero pack.


That one's already in the game actually. Since it would also 100% be the stage I also put the original on my hypothetical tracklist.
Ok but it's so good we need 1 version of the theme per DK theme remix
 

Cutie Gwen

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What Gwen said that was wrong is that I was arguing that Tekken did not deserve to be in Smash. That is in his/her posts.
I am so ****ing tired of people seeing someone called Gwen and thinking there's a chance they're talking to a dude. You took me pointing out Tekken's legacy as you arguing it's unworthy, I've tried being nice since you started posting here again but at this point it's clear I'm wasting my time
 

volbound1700

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I am so ****ing tired of people seeing someone called Gwen and thinking there's a chance they're talking to a dude. You took me pointing out Tekken's legacy as you arguing it's unworthy, I've tried being nice since you started posting here again but at this point it's clear I'm wasting my time
What is that supposed to me? Yes Gwen is a traditional girl name but it is a screen name. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Can you blame me? That wasn't even a dig or insult.
 

Garteam

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Dante's popularity did indeed skyroclet then, but I swear, people just seem to forget that Dante support had started growing significantly in 2018 due to the DMCV leak follow up and well, DMCV.
I will agree that Dante became more popular in 2018, it really only took him from a non-presence to a moderately popular option. While these aren't the most reliable sources and we could nitpick them to see how representative they truly are, Dante didn't rank in the 2018 Source Gaming poll and placed in the relatively impressive #14 in 2019 Source Gaming Poll. However, I still wouldn't say that #14 is a strong enough place to weigh the merits of including a character solely for their popularity.

Nowadays, I'd say there's an argument that Dante is a popular enough candidate to where an argument could be made using that as the primary premise, but that only really came when some really thought he was in as FP5.

DMC isn't really on ice when DMCV was a pretty big hit. The Gigaleak didn't get everything, including Ryu & Chun-Li in Fortnite and the Monster Hunter & Arthur Mii Costumes in Smash.
I'm not sure that cameos in Fortnite and Smash not being included in a leak means that we're missing full games from said leak, especially a game that would presumably be AAA like DMC6. I think it's much more likely that the leak didn't cover cameos and crossovers for whatever reason.

It's well established at this point that the Gigaleak didn't have everything on top of the fact that Nintendo and Sakurai wouldn't know the series might not be getting anything for a while (It just got a mobile game release that they plan to bring West btw so it's still active). Only Capcom would know that. In 2019, when Pass 2 was finalised, DMCV had just released and was a big hit and Capcom were porting over the older DMC titles, including making the Switch version of 3 the official definitive edition.
I really can't see Sakurai not asking about the long-term health of a franchise when including a character from said franchise in Smash. Sakurai has said before that series that get new releases tend to be prioritized for getting characters, so I can't see him going for Dante because DMC had a good 2019 and he assumes that the series would just sail on from here. I imagine he'd likely want to see if DMCV had actually given the series legs or if it was just a cool one-off for the time being.

Likewise, while the mobile game is a good sign, I don't think it's a strong enough one to indicate that DMC is in a strong enough spot to compete with both Resident Evil and Monster Hunter for Smash, especially when both of those franchises have major upcoming releases on the Gigaleak.
 

Pillow

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I am so ****ing tired of people seeing someone called Gwen and thinking there's a chance they're talking to a dude. You took me pointing out Tekken's legacy as you arguing it's unworthy, I've tried being nice since you started posting here again but at this point it's clear I'm wasting my time
Dudes named Gwen in shambles rn
 

7NATOR

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Link to movie because I don't remember a Tekken movie on the level of these movies:






What Gwen said that was wrong is that I was arguing that Tekken did not deserve to be in Smash. That is in his/her posts. I NEVER said that, in fact I said the OPPOSITE most of the time through this thread. I also never denied Tekken was HUGE, I just stated that in MY AREA, it was drowned out by MK and SF so I didn't know the Roster as much.
I like Tvtropes so I link to those pages

Tekken: The Motion Picture (Anime) - TV Tropes

Tekken (Film) - TV Tropes

Tekken: Blood Vengeance (Anime) - TV Tropes

Though I actually agree that these Films aren't on the same level as the ones Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat have, as well as the fact that these came out later I believe than those franchises movies. I think if you didn't state that Tekken had no from of outside content, this Conversation wouldn't be as hectic as it is to be honest
 

GilTheGreat19

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This is a thread about a video game…
I won’t say any more on this, but why tf can’t we get along? Speculation is meant to be fun and interesting; we’re supposed to share each other’s perspectives and debate on topics in a fruitful manner.


On another note, Frisk being the last character would be great. It’s be funny yet amazing to see Toby Fox’s name on the copyright screen in a Smash trailer
 

volbound1700

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Dudes named Gwen in shambles rn
Thank you. I didn't mean any insult to Gwen when I posted that. I was trying to be respectful and made sure that I got the acronym correct. I get attacked all of the time on here for trying to be polite or just posting casually.

The entire fight started off one comment that I made about being ignorant of Tekken Legacy because in my AREA, MK and SF overshadowed Tekken.

That statement started this entire fight.
 

Megadoomer

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I don't get how some Smash fans can be so close-minded when it comes to character selection - thankfully, I haven't seen that on this forum (at the very least, I've only seen one person being salty about Kazuya's inclusion in the reports), but I've seen plenty of people on sites like Reddit acting like this is the worst decision they could have made because it's not (insert the 1-3 characters that the person wants to see), or because it's "another" fighting game character. (because four fighting game characters, mostly from different series and different companies, in a roster of almost 90 is clearly overdoing it)

If it was the 1990s or early 2000s, it would make more sense - most gaming information was relayed through magazines, or gaming sites in their early infancy, and games were physical while re-releases weren't as common. However, it's 2021. Youtube exists (meaning that, even if you can't play a game, you can still look up footage of it in action), Steam is a thing (which helps with being able to play third party titles), and plenty of games are available to download in one form or another.

When Brawl was announced and I only vaguely recalled who Snake was through older Nintendo Power issues, I didn't complain that he was a terrible addition - I went back to those Nintendo Power issues, looked into the game, and decided to order it through eBay to give it a try, and Metal Gear wound up becoming one of my favourite series. (I wound up playing all of the main titles, even getting the PC version of MGS2 that required fan-made patches to work well since I didn't have a PS2)

It's baffling to me when I've seen people complain that Kazuya's "just another 2D shoto", when watching less than a minute of Tekken's gameplay would make it clear that almost every part of that statement is incorrect. I apologize for the rant; it's just frustrating to see some times. (and I'm not even a huge fan of Tekken - I got into it a few years back when I found the Wii U version of Tag Tournament 2 for cheap - so I can't imagine how annoying it must be for them)
 
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volbound1700

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I like Tvtropes so I link to those pages

Tekken: The Motion Picture (Anime) - TV Tropes

Tekken (Film) - TV Tropes

Tekken: Blood Vengeance (Anime) - TV Tropes

Though I actually agree that these Films aren't on the same level as the ones Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat have, as well as the fact that these came out later I believe than those franchises movies. I think if you didn't state that Tekken had no from of outside content, this Conversation wouldn't be as hectic as it is to be honest
They were Anime. Guess what, very few people in my area watch Anime with the exception of maybe Studio Ghilbli. The whole point I made was MY AREA and people that I am around in my period of time.

I NEVER denied Tekken wasn't a major franchise. People knew it here, it just wasn't as popular as MK and SF which just dominated that area of gaming.

The argument is really asinine. Perhaps I am dealing with a work issue as well during my lunch break and that got me frustrated. I probably should have just let some of the comments slide.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Yes, you're right, he does have competition in those regards. Doesn't mean he has a 0% chance though, and I'd accept several of those other AT/first party choices.
I agree. I personally don’t think Isaac possesses the qualities I personally think CP11 will have but I wouldn’t be surprised if a fan-demand-driven first party joins at the end. That said, that‘s a decently big pool of characters in and of itself so Isaac is still not the most likely imo, but he’s not impossible
 

Swamp Sensei

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Any Tekken fans know the tracks used in Kazuya's trailer?
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Guys, knock it off. They didn't know and was blatantly gender neutral. They didn't assume either gender, which is the correct thing to do when addressing someone when you don't know what they identify as. They just used the term which isn't as good as another, but the intent is blatantly obvious.

volbound1700 volbound1700 They/Them is the better terminology to use in this case. It's only good to use him/her in the case of fictional characters who can be either sex, not gender. Gender Neutral is a bit different, since it refers to who they identify as, not their physical body. Smash has characters with different sex alts as is, but their personality doesn't suggest outright which gender is correct. Sometimes one is clearly more promoted over another, but you can use They/Them for those too and it'd be fine.
 

volbound1700

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You're just digging a deeper hole there
What is sad is that if I met some of these posters in real life, we would probably get along fine. I am just tired at how nit-picky they can be about posting. I am sorry that I offended them. I was trying to go out of the way to not offend them with my post.
 

Wunderwaft

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Any Tekken fans know the tracks used in Kazuya's trailer?
There are three songs I noticed, the first is Emotionless Passion (specifically the Arcade version) and a remix version of it was used for Devil Kazuya's montage. The move list montage had the Tekken 3 character select theme.

Now then I should probably explain why the arcade version of Emotionless Passion was used. In the arcade version of Tekken 2 Kazuya is notoriously infamous for being an incredibly cheap boss that literally reads your inputs and punishes you with frame perfect attacks, designed specifically to steal your quarters. Sakurai knew what he was doing when he used the arcade boss theme of Kazuya for his trailer.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I will agree that Dante became more popular in 2018, it really only took him from a non-presence to a moderately popular option. While these aren't the most reliable sources and we could nitpick them to see how representative they truly are, Dante didn't rank in the 2018 Source Gaming poll and placed in the relatively impressive #14 in 2019 Source Gaming Poll. However, I still wouldn't say that #14 is a strong enough place to weigh the merits of including a character solely for their popularity.

Nowadays, I'd say there's an argument that Dante is a popular enough candidate to where an argument could be made using that as the primary premise, but that only really came when some really thought he was in as FP5.
Quick question, this is the one you mean right?
https://sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/ I think it actually helps the 2018 claim, these results were shared on June 10th, mere days before DMCV was officially announced, with the DMCV follow up 4chan post being I believe 2 months later. Dante benefitted the same way so many other characters like Ridley did, people didn't really consider it until "Now that you mention it, that would be cool". As for that poll only being on popularity, that's true, but it implies that'd be the only factor for choosing Dante. I think I get what you're going for, that there's so many other characters with popularity on their side that haven't gotten in yet and may never happen, but this kinda applies to ebery character until proven otherwise
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Any Tekken fans know the tracks used in Kazuya's trailer?
The first one is Emotionless passion from Tekken 2, and the second one when Devil Kazuya is shown is Character select screen from Tekken 3.
Keep in mind that the song appearing in the trailer doesn't necessarily mean that it's in the game.

I kinda wish they'd stop doing that though.
 

volbound1700

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Quick question, this is the one you mean right?
https://sourcegaming.info/2018/06/10/mega-smash-poll-switch-results/ I think it actually helps the 2018 claim, these results were shared on June 10th, mere days before DMCV was officially announced, with the DMCV follow up 4chan post being I believe 2 months later. Dante benefitted the same way so many other characters like Ridley did, people didn't really consider it until "Now that you mention it, that would be cool". As for that poll only being on popularity, that's true, but it implies that'd be the only factor for choosing Dante. I think I get what you're going for, that there's so many other characters with popularity on their side that haven't gotten in yet and may never happen, but this kinda applies to ebery character until proven otherwise
I thought we weren't using these polls based on an argument you had with me in the past. They are not official.
 

Inferno7

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I don't get how some Smash fans can be so close-minded - thankfully, I haven't seen that on this forum (at the very least, I've only seen one person being salty about Kazuya's inclusion in the reports), but I've seen plenty of people on sites like Reddit acting like this is the worst decision they could have made because it's not (insert the 1-3 characters that the person wants to see), or because it's "another" fighting game character. (because four fighting game characters, mostly from different series and different companies, in a roster of almost 90 is clearly overdoing it)

If it was the 1990s or early 2000s, it would make more sense - most gaming information was relayed through magazines, or gaming sites in their early infancy, and games were physical while re-releases weren't as common. However, it's 2021. Youtube exists (meaning that, even if you can't play a game, you can still look up footage of it in action), Steam is a thing (which helps with being able to play third party titles), and plenty of games are available to download in one form or another.

When Brawl was announced and I only vaguely recalled who Snake was through older Nintendo Power issues, I didn't complain that he was a terrible addition - I went back to those Nintendo Power issues, looked into the game, and decided to order it through eBay to give it a try, and Metal Gear wound up becoming one of my favourite series. (I wound up playing all of the main titles, even getting the PC version of MGS2 that required fan-made patches to work well since I didn't have a PS2)

It's baffling to me when I've seen people complain that Kazuya's "just another 2D shoto", when watching less than a minute of Tekken's gameplay would make it clear that almost every part of that statement is incorrect. I apologize for the rant; it's just frustrating to see some times. (and I'm not even a huge fan of Tekken - I got into it a few years back when I found the Wii U version of Tag Tournament 2 for cheap - so I can't imagine how annoying it must be for them)
oh people on social media are definitely salty, but hard agree on this
Can't believe some people legitimately called this guy ''Electric Ryu'', it's like the spiritual successor of Hat Ken but even dumber and more non-sensical than before. A friend of mine wanted this character badly, so it's really detrimental when you somebody saying ''no one asked for this'' or ''literal who''.
At this point I'm fully convinced Smash fans only know like two games, Smash and the game their MW comes from.
 
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Schnee117

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oh people on social media are definitely salty, but hard agree on this
Can't believe some people legitimately called this guy ''Electric Ryu'', it's like the spiritual successor of Hat Ken but even dumber and more non-sensical than before. A friend of mine wanted this character badly, so it's really detrimental when you somebody saying ''no one asked for this'' or ''literal who''.
At this point I'm fully convinced Smash fans only know like two games, Smash and the game their MW come from.
The irony of "Electric Ryu" is that that's just Ryu with his V-Trigger 1 lmao
 
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CapitaineCrash

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Unless my ears deceive me, the latter is a remix of the former, right?
I'm not 100% sure, but they do sound very similar.


Keep in mind that the song appearing in the trailer doesn't necessarily mean that it's in the game.

I kinda wish they'd stop doing that though.
That's true, but this time both music are remixes so I'd be surprised if they did remixes just for the trailer (unlike that Persona 5 music and the Dragon quest overture which was just the original).
 

volbound1700

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oh people on social media are definitely salty, but hard agree on this
Can't believe some people legitimately called this guy ''Electric Ryu'', it's like the spiritual successor of Hat Ken but even dumber and more non-sensical than before. A friend of mine wanted this character badly, so it's really detrimental when you somebody saying ''no one asked for this'' or ''literal who''.
At this point I'm fully convinced Smash fans only know like two games, Smash and the game their MW come from.
NAMCO and Tekken deserved a spot. People are going to be salty because they didn't get their character. However, it is very hard to argue against Kayuza.

Keep in mind that the issue with Smash Speculation/Characters is that it is 99% emotional. You cannot argue facts to make someone like a character.

We haven't even seen Kayuza's move set (or at least not a very detailed review of his move set) yet so the Electric Ryu is interesting.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Keep in mind that the song appearing in the trailer doesn't necessarily mean that it's in the game.

I kinda wish they'd stop doing that though.
I mean, how often does that even happen anymore? Only times I remember that are Cloud Bowser Jr and Joker's trailers and even then, it's safe to assume Kazuya's actual theme is a shoe-in. As for the character select theme, we've had **** like Zero's MMX1 theme so I'd be surprised if that was left out, especially as Kazuya has unique camera movements and uses the Tekken 7 announcer on his victory screen
 

Eldrake

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I don't get how some Smash fans can be so close-minded when it comes to character selection - thankfully, I haven't seen that on this forum (at the very least, I've only seen one person being salty about Kazuya's inclusion in the reports), but I've seen plenty of people on sites like Reddit acting like this is the worst decision they could have made because it's not (insert the 1-3 characters that the person wants to see), or because it's "another" fighting game character. (because four fighting game characters, mostly from different series and different companies, in a roster of almost 90 is clearly overdoing it)

If it was the 1990s or early 2000s, it would make more sense - most gaming information was relayed through magazines, or gaming sites in their early infancy, and games were physical while re-releases weren't as common. However, it's 2021. Youtube exists (meaning that, even if you can't play a game, you can still look up footage of it in action), Steam is a thing (which helps with being able to play third party titles), and plenty of games are available to download in one form or another.

When Brawl was announced and I only vaguely recalled who Snake was through older Nintendo Power issues, I didn't complain that he was a terrible addition - I went back to those Nintendo Power issues, looked into the game, and decided to order it through eBay to give it a try, and Metal Gear wound up becoming one of my favourite series. (I wound up playing all of the main titles, even getting the PC version of MGS2 that required fan-made patches to work well since I didn't have a PS2)

It's baffling to me when I've seen people complain that Kazuya's "just another 2D shoto", when watching less than a minute of Tekken's gameplay would make it clear that almost every part of that statement is incorrect. I apologize for the rant; it's just frustrating to see some times. (and I'm not even a huge fan of Tekken - I got into it a few years back when I found the Wii U version of Tag Tournament 2 for cheap - so I can't imagine how annoying it must be for them)
Smash fans wants FGC to acknowledge Smash as a fighting game.
Smash fans also don't want to acknowledge other fighting games.
 

osby

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oh people on social media are definitely salty, but hard agree on this
Can't believe some people legitimately called this guy ''Electric Ryu'', it's like the spiritual successor of Hat Ken but even dumber and more non-sensical than before. A friend of mine wanted this character badly, so it's really detrimental when you somebody saying ''no one asked for this'' or ''literal who''.
At this point I'm fully convinced Smash fans only know like two games, Smash and the game their MW comes from.
Japanese video game industry according to Smash fans:
  1. Nintendo
  2. Capcom
  3. Sonic
  4. Kingdom Hearts
  5. ?
  6. ???
  7. That soldier guy in Brawl
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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That's true, but this time both music are remixes so I'd be surprised if they did remixes just for the trailer (unlike that Persona 5 music and the Dragon quest overture which was just the original).
I could have sworn that the music for Pyra's section of their trailer was a remix too, but it might have just been an instrumental part. Good to know that it's probably not going to be the case here.


I mean, how often does that even happen anymore? Only times I remember that are Cloud Bowser Jr and Joker's trailers and even then, it's safe to assume Kazuya's actual theme is a shoe-in. As for the character select theme, we've had **** like Zero's MMX1 theme so I'd be surprised if that was left out, especially as Kazuya has unique camera movements and uses the Tekken 7 announcer on his victory screen
To my knowledge it's happened for Cloud, Joker, Hero, and Pyra/Mythra. So decently often. Enough for it not to be a non-factor.
 
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