Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Will]

Samurai Goroh is the better rival to Captain Falcon IMO, he's been there since the beginning too. If we want to add an F-Zero baddie he's the better option if you ask me... Black Shadow is fine, but that movement really is 99% driven by wanting to stick Ganon's moveset on someone else. It's a shame since F-Zero characters are actually very cool.

The only thing about Goroh is that you'd have to make his moveset from scratch. What would be the design behind Goroh? Not being condescending, I kinda wanna make this fun.

I'm thinking something like a SamSho character. Make him pretty commital, but powerful and with fast grabs/jabs and throws.

 

[Nekoo]

The main problem with Sora is he'd have to implemented without the Disney characters which wouldn't be faithful to the series and wouldn't make much sense.

Sora as a character doesn't have any Disney Element/skill to him thought

 

[culumon]

If tomorrow is the end of the road then... what a decade-long trip.

E3 2011. That's when Smash for Wii U and 3DS got announced. Basically ever since then, there's been a wait for The Next Smash Character. Even after Sm4sh's DLC cycle ended, I remember the feeling among my friends that this wasn't really the end, the NX was right around the corner. Those two years and three months between Bayo's reveal trailer and the infernal Smash logo reflected in the Inkling's eye were still spent waiting for Smash Deluxe to get announced at the next Nintendo Direct. Here? The finality is tangible. This Is It.

It's crazy to think just how different this series was in June of 2011. No Mega Man, no Pac-Man, no Cloud. Fan rules about "only one rep per third party company!" and "it's still predominantly a Nintendo crossover!". Ridley was too big, K. Rool was too irrelevant, Banjo was too impossible.

Whatever tomorrow brings, I'm grateful I got to spend the last decade with this silly party game for children where Super Mario punches Sonic the Hedgehog in the face living rent free in my head.

 

[Louie G.]

It is actually impressive how often this community is wrong. Nearly everything they say is false.

I corrected this just yesterday but I guess I'll respost it.

Not quite as much as people think, honestly.

Especially in regards to E3 - historically this is the event where the characters people are discussing actually show up. Mega Man, Miis / Palutena / Pac-Man, Ridley, Hero / Banjo… DLC has of course been full of ups and downs, but the E3 lineups have been pretty consistently “on people’s radars”. At least like, one character per batch.

Not to mention out last character was… Pyra. I mean, yeah I know Rex wasn’t there - due to technical limitations apparently, so people were on the right track anyway - but we’ve been talking about Xenoblade 2 since the beginning. Some characters like Byleth and Steve also saw a good amount of discussion, the timing was just a bit off. There’s a pretty even mix of surprises and “yeah that makes sense”.

Of course, we could get literally ANYTHING on Tuesday and I think everyone should keep an open mind. But I’m honestly starting to grow weary of the whole “we haven’t been able to predict anything” deal that a lot of people like to back because that isn’t actually true.

Let alone the presumption of some people saying it’d be a character that apparently nobody ever even thought of - at this point, after Joker / Terry / Sephiroth, I think we’ve at least touched upon nearly everyone.

Really just kinda tired of people acting like this constantly. And the community never "collectively agrees" on anything anymore to begin with - if anything they're the first people to shoot down characters on the sole basis of gaining traction and popularity. Even if certain characters like Crash show up constantly in discussion, there's an equal or greater number of people who do not expect him even remotely.

See, the issue is that people don't want to try and learn from the missteps we've made along the way. Instead of trying to assess why we were wrong, instead people either stick to the same mindset they always had or simply give up and say nobody can guess anything. Meanwhile, when people do try and bring characters into the limelight, it's a double edged sword because the moment those characters actually gain traction that latter group will shut them down because nobody is ever right.

For example, it's funny because just a few months ago Master Chief was widely considered out of the running because of arbitrary assumptions about double dipping - and now apparently he's one of the big go-to characters who nobody ever shuts up about. These picks are volatile and inconsistent... someone who is a frontrunner today hasn't always been and won't always be. Steve is a great example of that.

The most widely accepted characters right now - like I dunno, Chosen Undead / Arle / Sol Badguy sort of picks - are the ones who barely get talked about (at large, at least) but just kind of "make sense" on the outskirts of common speculation and will get briefly nodded off in a usual discussion. But you can bet the moment one of them really breaks through everyone will just lump them in with Crash and Co and say they're never happening. Speculation has devolved into a situation where no new characters can ever properly rise to prominence without being labeled either a bandwagon or lumped in with the previous community frontrunners as something that can just never happen because people expect it now.

Anyway, glad this will be kinda sorta over tomorrow lmao. Not saying we're guaranteed a big ticket character but it's just as close minded to keep peddling this community is so bad at predicting characters and never gets anything right narrative and ignore the bigger picture.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

I feel like this argument gets brought up every time someone mentions Sora...it's a bit exhausting

 

[Will]

The main problem with Sora is he'd have to implemented without the Disney characters which wouldn't be faithful to the series and wouldn't make much sense.

That really only applies to his Final Smash at best if they wanted to bring Donald and Goofy. I don't recall Sora saying "Bibidi Babidi Boo", that man said "Firaga".

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

The main problem with Sora is he'd have to implemented without the Disney characters which wouldn't be faithful to the series and wouldn't make much sense.

There’s enough original Kingdom Hearts material to add Sora to Smash, without any mention of any Disney characters, and still have him feel like an adequate representation of Kingdom Hearts. Literally, the only thing that might show any sort of Disney affiliation is their name appearing alongside the other companies involved, and maybe the Mickey emblem of the Keyblade. Kingdom Hearts has a story all on its own merit. I get that it’s Disney owned, but I honestly don’t think they’d care as long as they’re making money.

 

[drag0nscythe]

So, going in tomorrow mostly blind here. who is everyone expecting?

 

[Will]

I feel like this argument gets brought up every time someone mentions Sora...it's a bit exhausting

Feels about right.
​

So, going in tomorrow mostly blind here. who is everyone expecting?

Scorpion because I said so.

 

[Super Devon]

The Masahiro Sakurai playlist on Nintendo's YouTube channel has two private videos.

We may be in for a double reveal tomorrow.

I checked to see if this is the case using the web archive
but the private videos were the reuploads of the 2018 invitational, more specifically: Part 4 and the Highlights

the thing is, have these videos been in the playlist prior to today? I mean I know it was in the "Super Smash Bros" playlist but I don't recall the "Masahiro Sakurai" having any private videos in that particular playlist

if they weren't in the Sakurai playlist before, then that is highly suspicious.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

My prediction is Master Chief and Miku Hatsune, and I say this not because it's likely (it's not lol), but because it's random, and they have been random so far. Also one character for western fans and the other for Japanese fans.

But I still think that they might flip the table, go completely crazy, troll all of us, and put Geno in as the very last character, regardless of everything that has played against him so far, deconfirmations and all.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sakurai likes being faithful regarding characters. That's why Mai didn't even make a cameo on Terry's stage.

He would probably feel that Sora can't be faithfully represented without Donald and Goofy or Disney characters for that matter.

 

[Will]

Miku Hatsune

Vocaloid's a game? Or does it just have games?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Sakurai likes being faithful regarding characters. That's why Mai didn't even make a cameo on Terry's stage.

He would probably feel that Sora can't be faithfully represented without Donald and Goofy or Disney characters for that matter.

I have used that argument against Scorpion and Doom guy multiple times.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I just can't wait for tomorrow when all the guys expecting the same big third-party names like Crash, Master Chief, etc. are introduced to Poochy or whatever

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

It's not even like those characters are the playable rep, I could see them being there somewhere too if it happened and they felt it was needed.

 

[Nekoo]

The SORA NEEDS DISNEY and SORA DOESNT NEED DISNEY discourse is simple.
KH fans know that Sora doesn't need any Disney stuff to fight, none of his skills are disney related beside summons.
He fights most of the most important bosses by himself, and in more games than none he's without Donald and Goofy/ By his own.

 

[volbound1700]

I personally think Square-Enix is done. We won't get anymore IP from them unless it is for another Fighter Pass.

I kind of feel the same way for Microsoft and this is why I don't see Masterchief coming.

If we get third-party (I think there will be at least one third-party in the last two spots), it will likely be from Namco, Sega, Atlus, Ubisoft, or Komei-Tecmo. Not sure about Activision, I haven't heard anything about Activision-Nintendo discussions. I also think Bethesda is suspect with the Microsoft acquisition but is probably on the radar of possibilities. There are also a lot of smaller Japanese companies that could have IP considered.

Out of all the third-party, I would say that Namco has the best.

Out of first party, I like the chances of a Legend of Zelda character the most.

 

[Will]

Sakurai likes being faithful regarding characters. That's why Mai didn't even make a cameo on Terry's stage.

He would probably feel that Sora can't be faithfully represented without Donald and Goofy or Disney characters for that matter.

So due to "circumstances", Mai can't be in the game. However, you don't need her, so she is simply excluded and the exclusion is explained by Sakurai.

And now due to these hypothetical "circumstances", instead of just excluding Donald and Goofy, Sora just can't be in the game? That sounds like cap and just a way for you to say someone else should get in instead of him.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Honestly I can see one of two scenarios tomorrow provided it is a double reveal(Which is looking a bit likely).

1. One big name/commonly requested character and one smaller character. I.E: Crash/Reimu, Waluigi/Sol, Dante/Kiryu, etc etc.

2. Two smaller name or unexpected characters.


I believe we're getting an unexpected character. I do feel like one of them at least is one people written off, never talk about, or believe is "Too unimportant to be in Smash". Whether the second one is a huge name or another one like that, I don't know.

 

[Ivander]

I checked to see if this is the case using the web archive
but the private videos were the reuploads of the 2018 invitational, more specifically: Part 4 and the Highlights

the thing is, have these videos been in the playlist prior to today?

I thought they were privated long before today after what happened with......well, around after Min-Min released.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's easier for them to go out with a bang when their fanbases don't insist that every single DLC fighter should be a guest.

Ah yes. My favourite crossover fighting games. SFV and DBFZ.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Vocaloid's a game? Or does it just have games?

It's originally not a game, but I see Miku as one of the few possible exceptions because even if it's not really a game, it's still some form of software-based entertainment.

 

[PacificFun]

I'm going into tomorrow with the lowest bar of expectations possible after witnessing Gearbox, Ubisoft, Xbox, PC Game Show and ESPECIALLY Square Enix's E3 presentations.

 

[Super Devon]

I thought they were privated long before today after what happened with......well, around after Min-Min released.

yeah they were, but I'm asking as to if these private videos have been in the Sakruai playlists prior to today or not.
if they were, then it likely means nothing
if not, it makes me wonder...

 

[7NATOR]

The Masahiro Sakurai playlist on Nintendo's YouTube channel has two private videos.

We may be in for a double reveal tomorrow.

So I don't think this is just for Reveal trailer since there's not actual trailers in this playlist. It's presents and Full Smash Presentations. Nintendo is also pretty lazy in not updating the playlist with the more recent Sakurai presents, but it's whatever

If this actually means something, While I think it may be a stretch, we could see a Sakurai Presents on both CP10 and CP11. I do think that along with CP10 being ready for release, CP11 is in enough progress to have a Presentation recorded, and might also come shortly after CP10 also

There may be something else in play here. I'm not sure to be honest though

Anyways so where's the E3 Predictions thread? is this thread gonna be where we post out predictions

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So I don't think this is just for Reveal trailer since there's not actual trailers in this playlist. It's presents and Full Smash Presentations. Nintendo is also pretty lazy in not updating the playlist with the more recent Sakurai presents, but it's whatever

If this actually means something, While I think it may be a stretch, we could see a Sakurai Presents on both CP10 and CP11. I do think that along with CP10 being ready for release, CP11 is in enough progress to have a Presentation recorded, and might also come shortly after CP10 also

There may be something else in play here. I'm not sure to be honest though

Anyways so where's the E3 Predictions thread? is this thread gonna be where we post out predictions

What exactly do you suspect as “something else in play here”?

 

[Will]

It's originally not a game, but I see Miku as one of the few possible exceptions because even if it's not really a game, it's still some form of software-based entertainment.

The only issue with that is that there never have been "exceptions", Miku not originally coming from a video game immediately means she has no chance now or ever in the future. This is like the Agumon debate, but at least Agumon's tamagotchi toys have some credence to it as video games, like Game & Watch.

 

[volbound1700]

Honestly I can see one of two scenarios tomorrow provided it is a double reveal(Which is looking a bit likely).

1. One big name/commonly requested character and one smaller character. I.E: Crash/Reimu, Waluigi/Sol, Dante/Kiryu, etc etc.

2. Two smaller name or unexpected characters.


I believe we're getting an unexpected character. I do feel like one of them at least is one people written off, never talk about, or believe is "Too unimportant to be in Smash". Whether the second one is a huge name or another one like that, I don't know.

While I believe you might be right, I think that is the problem. Why doesn't Sakurai just give us the big characters that we want?

You see that was my point when I referenced that I did not want some of my favorite obscure picks such as Amaterasu or Prince Fluff over Crash and Rayman. I would rather get the BIG name characters that people want. That is the direction Smash should have gone with all along with the DLC. Put the obscure picks in the base game, not in DLC that costs $$.

 

[Gengar84]

Do you guys think that the fact that we got Banjo and Steve as DLC means we can’t get another Microsoft character this pass? I made a topic on GameFAQs suggesting that I thought a Microsoft character could still be possible and everyone snapped at me and some were yelling in all caps how I don’t understand anything. I’m not really sure why just saying something is possible makes people so angry. I think it’s best to keep an open mind.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Sakurai likes being faithful regarding characters. That's why Mai didn't even make a cameo on Terry's stage.

He would probably feel that Sora can't be faithfully represented without Donald and Goofy or Disney characters for that matter.

You’re comparing a character missing as a stage element, to a character (Terry) who got in Smash, and using it to justify the claim that if Sora were to get in without Donald/Goofy/or any other Disney character making an appearance, it would be unfaithful to the potential fighter and series as a whole, so he can’t make it in…it doesn’t make since.

Also, Kingdom Hearts as a series has an abundance of original characters and locations to choose from, that have no mention of any Disney anything, and could be used to give a faithful representation of the series. Literally there’s Riku, Kairi, Roxas, Lea, Xion, Naminé, Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Eraqus, Ansem, Xemnas, Xehanort, Young Xehanort, Vanitas, and all of Organization XIII. Stage wise you have Destiny Island, Traverse Town, Twilight Town, The World That Never Was, Castle Oblivion, Scala Ad Caelum, and Dive to the Heart.

There’s plenty.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

The SORA NEEDS DISNEY and SORA DOESNT NEED DISNEY discourse is simple.
KH fans know that Sora doesn't need any Disney stuff to fight, none of his skills are disney related beside summons.
He fights most of the most important bosses by himself, and in more games than none he's without Donald and Goofy/ By his own.

If I remember right, Sephiroth didn't get to FIGHT Goofy since that was Sora on his own...

but Goofy DID tell off Sephiroth.

"Where's Cloud?"

"A-hyuck, well I DON'T THINK WE should TELL ya!"

Just look at Sephiroth in Smash and go "that guy got told off by Goofy"


Then again, I take great joy at looking at the girls of FFVII (Aerith, Tifa and Yuffie) and going "These ladies have not only MET Goofy, but also know Goofy by name"

GAWRSH, a-hyuck!

 

[Guynamednelson]

Do you guys think that the fact that we got Banjo and Steve as DLC means we can’t get another Microsoft character this pass? I made a topic on GameFAQs suggesting that I thought a Microsoft character could still be possible and everyone snapped at me and some were yelling in all caps how I don’t understand anything. I’m not really sure why just saying something is possible makes people so angry. I think it’s best to keep an open mind.

Mainly it just seems like Steve was the one who Nintendo was really gunning for this whole time, with Banjo being a backup because of ballot support+being easier to make, as it was officially claimed that Minecraft was what helped Nintendo team up with Microsoft to add Banjo to Smash.

 

[Opossum]

The only thing about Goroh is that you'd have to make his moveset from scratch. What would be the design behind Goroh? Not being condescending, I kinda wanna make this fun.

I'm thinking something like a SamSho character. Make him pretty commital, but powerful and with fast grabs/jabs and throws.

I could see him as, even if it sounds weird and horrifying for the meta, Sword Wario. Great movement for a heavy with quick, powerful strikes, emblematic of his machine, the Fire Stingray. Like a stingray, I figure he'd have quite a few electrically charged attacks, with the hitstun helping him string together hits. He's not as fast as Falcon, but would have a way to increase his speed through the match to keep that F-Zero feel.

Accelerated Electric Sword Wario.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only non-game characters I see could have anything is cameos(Costumes, etc.) anyway. Same with non-game elements.

And it'd probably be very exceptional anyway. For instance, Captain N is owned by Nintendo, so him being a Mii costume is different from someone like Mickey Mouse(not the KH or Epic Mickey versions, who are game-specific either. Albeit, only the KH design would even have a slight chance of any cameo appearance) being one. Spirits are smaller cameos, as are stage elements and characters(not counting Miis) having costumes from non-game media.

I don't think Sora will be Disney-free, but it will be small. A Final Smash is the highest I could see, but a few spirits at most otherwise. Now, if Sora uses any magic, they'd have to reuse the Final Fantasy stuff, so that's more licensing agreements anyway.

And yes, Sakurai does care about faithfullness. The only way Sora won't have Disney elements is if he literally can't get them and feels it's okay to represent KH with zero FF or Disney. Since that's the whole premise of the series and still an important part of it regardless. The series moving on doesn't change the point behind the series' creation, after all.

 

[Will]

I could see him as, even if it sounds weird and horrifying for the meta, Sword Wario. Great movement for a heavy with quick, powerful strikes, emblematic of his machine, the Fire Stingray. Like a stingray, I figure he'd have quite a few electrically charged attacks, with the hitstun helping him string together hits. He's not as fast as Falcon, but would have a way to increase his speed through the match to keep that F-Zero feel.

Accelerated Electric Sword Wario.

Wario's already a high/top tier, you're gonna make him Bayonetta 2 if you don't stop playin.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I don't wanna drag on the Sora argument but clearly, Sakurai felt that Pyra was doable despite her role in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 literally being a support role. It's not really up to us to decide what he thinks will and will not be faithful.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

You’re comparing a character missing as a stage element, to a character (Terry) who got in Smash, and using it to justify the claim that if Sora were to get in without Donald/Goofy/or any other Disney character making an appearance, it would be unfaithful to the potential fighter and series as a whole, so he can’t make it in…it doesn’t make since.

Also, Kingdom Hearts as a series has an abundance of original characters and locations to choose from, that have no mention of any Disney anything, and could be used to give a faithful representation of the series. Literally there’s Riku, Kairi, Roxas, Lea, Xion, Naminé, Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Eraqus, Ansem, Xemnas, Xehanort, Young Xehanort, Vanitas, and all of Organization XIII. Stage wise you have Destiny Island, Traverse Town, Twilight Town, The World That Never Was, Castle Oblivion, Scala Ad Caelum, and Dive to the Heart.

There’s plenty.

Maybe but when people think of Kingdom Hearts, they think of Disney characters being in, isn't that the main core of the franchise? Which is why I feel Sakurai thinks having Disney represents the series best.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

While I believe you might be back, I think that is the problem. Why doesn't Sakurai just give us the big characters that we want?

You see that was my point when I referenced that I did not want some of my favorite obscure picks such as Amaterasu or Prince Fluff over Crash and Rayman. I would rather get the BIG name characters that people want. That is the direction Smash should have gone with all along with the DLC. Put the obscure picks in the base game, not in DLC that costs $$.

Sakurai has a different perspective of games as well as licensing or language issues, perhaps. Like yes, it'd be nice if he threw Smash fans a bone but he looks at the history of several characters and their contribution. Some of the "Obscure" characters happen to have a surprisingly contribution to gaming.

And of course whether Sakurai can think of how to make them faithful and fun.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't wanna drag on the Sora argument but clearly, Sakurai felt that Pyra was doable despite her role in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 literally being a support role. It's not really up to us to decide what he thinks will and will not be faithful.

Mythra was directly controllable in the prequel, Torna. The Blade-Driver mechanic was a lot different than in 2