Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Iko MattOrr]

The only issue with that is that there never have been "exceptions", Miku not originally coming from a video game immediately means she has no chance now or ever in the future. This is like the Agumon debate, but at least Agumon's tamagotchi toys have some credence to it as video games, like Game & Watch.

IMO it's a very borderline case, and it's very much subjective. It depends on what Sakurai thinks about it. Regardless, nothing has ever been set in stone with Smash so far, so even if exceptions never happend, they can happen some day.

I'm not arguing in favor of Miku or anything, I don't care really, it's just that I think that she's not completely impossible, despite being the mascot of an audio software and not directly a game character (even though she still has her own gaming franchise too).

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Accelerated Electric Sword Wario.

You said "electric" and "Wario" at the same time and so I felt it great to bring up the existence of Sparky Wario, aka "Wario went Super Saiyan before Mario did in Bowser's Fury"

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Wario's already a high/top tier, you're gonna make him Bayonetta 2 if you don't stop playin.

For his down B, he unleashes the Samurai Waft.

 

[Momotsuki]

Miku's kind of a grey area when it comes to whether she qualifies (though it's definitely a darker shade of grey.) I can't say she's on my radar at all.
But dammit, I'd pop off so hard.

 

[Opossum]

Wario's already a high/top tier, you're gonna make him Bayonetta 2 if you don't stop playin.

Hey, the man said it himself in GX. I'm just keeping him faithful.

"Samurai Goroh is the best in the galaxy!"

 

[7NATOR]

What exactly do you suspect as “something else in play here”?

Well I didn't have anything super specific in mind. But I did think that perhaps if this videos thing meant anything, if not the CP11 Presentation, It could be hinting towards a big presentation that has more than the 2 characters revealed (Like maybe a mode or something like that), which Sakurai might explain in the video, and then a separate video on CP10

One thing it might also be is that we might have Treehouse Footage of whatever is gonna be featured in the Next DLC Release for Smash Ultimate, in addition to a Sakurai presents

Either way, I lean towards 2 Sakurai presents, 1 Sakurai presents and Some Big presentation that reveals more than just the 2 characters, or 1 Sakurai presents and Treehouse footage

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Miku's kind of a grey area when it comes to whether she qualifies (though it's definitely a darker shade of grey.) I can't say she's on my radar at all.
But dammit, I'd pop off so hard.

She needs her leak and yasai juice though hahahaha just to irritate people

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Maybe but when people think of Kingdom Hearts, they think of Disney characters being in, isn't that the main core of the franchise? Which is why I feel Sakurai thinks having Disney represents the series best.

Maybe for the first game, but after that the series pretty much leaned much further into its original characters and elements and the Disney stuff became much more sidelined.

 

[volbound1700]

Sakurai has a different perspective of games as well as licensing or language issues, perhaps. Like yes, it'd be nice if he threw Smash fans a bone but he looks at the history of several characters and their contribution. Some of the "Obscure" characters happen to have a surprisingly contribution to gaming.

And of course whether Sakurai can think of how to make them faithful and fun.

Sakurai's perspective seems to be only favored towards Japan. For example, Doomguy has an iconic present for the FPS genre but hasn't appeared at all (or any other iconic character for that franchise).

Crash and Rayman have far more relevance to gaming than say Byleth but yet they haven't appeared.

Now faith and fun is totally up to Sakurai so I can probably agree with you there. Hard to judge that.

 

[Will]

Maybe for the first game, but after that the series pretty much leaned much further into its original characters and elements and the Disney stuff became much more sidelined.

I mean, Disney's had some pretty big plays in Kingdom Hearts 3. Remember when Tom Hank's brother told people no one loved them? Baller move.

 

[RileyXY1]

Sakurai's perspective seems to be only favored towards Japan. For example, Doomguy has an iconic present for the FPS genre but hasn't appeared at all (or any other iconic character for that franchise).

Crash and Rayman have far more relevance to gaming than say Byleth but yet they haven't appeared.

Now faith and fun is totally up to Sakurai so I can probably agree with you there. Hard to judge that.

That's pretty much it, especially considering that the only Western characters in Smash are an honorary Nintendo character and the face of the best selling game ever made.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well I didn't have anything super specific in mind. But I did think that perhaps if this videos thing meant anything, if not the CP11 Presentation, It could be hinting towards a big presentation that has more than the 2 characters revealed (Like maybe a mode or something like that), which Sakurai might explain in the video, and then a separate video on CP10

One thing it might also be is that we might have Treehouse Footage of whatever is gonna be featured in the Next DLC Release for Smash Ultimate, in addition to a Sakurai presents

Either way, I lean towards 2 Sakurai presents, 1 Sakurai presents and Some Big presentation that reveals more than just the 2 characters, or 1 Sakurai presents and Treehouse footage

As long as I get 2P WoL or some of the debug features I won’t complain

 

[SKX31]

The main problem with Sora is he'd have to implemented without the Disney characters which wouldn't be faithful to the series and wouldn't make much sense.

Excuse my mini-modding, but please don't double post. The edit button is helpful since it allows effective merging.

Maybe for the first game, but after that the series pretty much leaned much further into its original characters and elements and the Disney stuff became much more sidelined.

While that's true, I'm hesitant on that since IIRC Disney owns not only Sora but also the other KH OCs. Meaning Sakurai in any hypotheoretical scenario would have to negotiate with them, and while I strongly doubt Disney would force things I nevertheless wouldn't be surprised if their lawyers recommend that KH Donald, Goofy and Mickey still be present. Which makes things kinda complicated.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Well I didn't have anything super specific in mind. But I did think that perhaps if this videos thing meant anything, if not the CP11 Presentation, It could be hinting towards a big presentation that has more than the 2 characters revealed (Like maybe a mode or something like that), which Sakurai might explain in the video, and then a separate video on CP10

One thing it might also be is that we might have Treehouse Footage of whatever is gonna be featured in the Next DLC Release for Smash Ultimate, in addition to a Sakurai presents

Either way, I lean towards 2 Sakurai presents, 1 Sakurai presents and Some Big presentation that reveals more than just the 2 characters, or 1 Sakurai presents and Treehouse footage

NATOR GATOR! HEY HOW'S IT GOIN? It was a bit of a roughhouse here yesterday, it's so good to see ya!

Ready for the end tomorrow? If Shadow and Waluigi get in, we're goin to Burger King, man! Hell, let's do Burger King if just Shadow shows up man!

 

[volbound1700]

If you are going to go the Sora route, why not just go for the most iconic animated IP character of all-time and get Mickey Mouse? Mickey Mouse has been in a TON of video game franchises and some of his appearances are iconic.

Would there be anything more iconic than Mario vs. Mickey Mouse. The two most famous fiction cartoon IP ever?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If you are going to go the Sora route, why not just go for the most iconic animated IP character of all-time and get Mickey Mouse? Mickey Mouse has been in a TON of video game franchises and some of his appearances are iconic.

Would there be anything more iconic than Mario vs. Mickey Mouse. The two most famous fiction cartoon IP ever?

Only if King Mickey is use.

Otherwise as a whole Mickey didn't originate from video games. The one rule regarding Smash.

Video game characters only.

 

[Schnee117]

Sora arguments are always a good indicator for as to who's even actually taken more than a slight glimpse at Kingdom Hearts tbh

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If you are going to go the Sora route, why not just go for the most iconic animated IP character of all-time and get Mickey Mouse? Mickey Mouse has been in a TON of video game franchises and some of his appearances are iconic.

Would there be anything more iconic than Mario vs. Mickey Mouse. The two most famous fiction cartoon IP ever?

Because Mickey breaks a rule Sakurai himself imposed which is 100% for focus and licensing issues?

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

If you are going to go the Sora route, why not just go for the most iconic animated IP character of all-time and get Mickey Mouse? Mickey Mouse has been in a TON of video game franchises and some of his appearances are iconic.

Would there be anything more iconic than Mario vs. Mickey Mouse. The two most famous fiction cartoon IP ever?

Could Mickey borrow from Mickey Mania and like... just PELT MARBLES IN PEOPLE'S FACES like he did in that game hahaha I kind of love that that was something Mickey did it's so specific but so weirdly brutal hahahaha

"Huh HAH! GET OUTTA HERE" *chucks a marble at a man's face

 

[7NATOR]

NATOR GATOR! HEY HOW'S IT GOIN? It was a bit of a roughhouse here yesterday, it's so good to see ya!

Ready for the end tomorrow? If Shadow and Waluigi get in, we're goin to Burger King, man! Hell, let's do Burger King if just Shadow shows up man!

Was it rough because people were roasting the Square presentation and such, or was just alot of frustrating Smash Speculation

Either way, I do have my predictions down for Tomorrow, and I'm ready. The only thing I'll say is While I do think Shadow or Waluigi, one of those 2 will be in, I don't think both of them are gonna be reborn to be playable on the roster, mostly because it may be suggested we getting another Swordfighter (from the 2010's). I lean towards Shadow, but I do think Waluigi has good shot. Either way, we going to Burger King though

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Let me make it clear:

I am not saying Sora should happen without Disney. I am simply pointing out that he COULD, and it still be a faithful representation of the franchise. Sora is my most wanted character. I have loved Kingdom Hearts for over a decade now. I want a character from one of my favorite games, to be playable in another one of my favorite games, that is made by my favorite gaming company.

I am tired of seeing the same tired arguments brought up against Sora’s potential inclusion into Smash Ultimate. The arguments are either regurgitations of widely held beliefs amongst others, made by people who only know what Kingdom Hearts is on a surface level, or limitations based in some asinine made up fan rule.

Let me want Sora in Smash.

 

[Nekoo]

If you are going to go the Sora route, why not just go for the most iconic animated IP character of all-time and get Mickey Mouse? Mickey Mouse has been in a TON of video game franchises and some of his appearances are iconic.

Would there be anything more iconic than Mario vs. Mickey Mouse. The two most famous fiction cartoon IP ever?

One comes a video game Ip, appear only in Video games, and is a Video game only character who appear to be licenced by Disney.

Sora on all possible technicalities of the world pass all of Sakurai's rules.
Mickey fail the first one.

 

[Will]

If you are going to go the Sora route, why not just go for the most iconic animated IP character of all-time and get Mickey Mouse? Mickey Mouse has been in a TON of video game franchises and some of his appearances are iconic.

Because Mickey Mouse isn't a video game character?

What makes you think Goku hasn't shown up yet, he's just less iconic than Fire Emblem in Japan?

 

[MisterMike]

There's no bonus fighter, but there is an extra slot which is CP11.

I think the "bonus fighter" will be Waluigi since he's CP11. But we're not getting more DLC after FP2.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. There was this weird thing found which suggests a possible bonus fighter.

 

[RileyXY1]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. There was this weird thing found which suggests a possible bonus fighter.

Except such a thing was only on the AUS/NZ site, and it might just have been an error.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Was it rough because people were roasting the Square presentation and such, or was just alot of frustrating Smash Speculation

Either way, I do have my predictions down for Tomorrow, and I'm ready. The only thing I'll say is While I do think Shadow or Waluigi, one of those 2 will be in, I don't think both of them are gonna be reborn to be playable on the roster, mostly because it may be suggested we getting another Swordfighter (from the 2010's). I lean towards Shadow, but I do think Waluigi has good shot. Either way, we going to Burger King though

BURGER KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!

But yeah, naw Square presentation got rough, mistakes were made, people dragged other people through the mud over it... WHOOF! BAR FIGHT CENTRAL. Smash Speculation was at that "oh lord is this gonna go on for another months" or whatever.

Could a Golf Club or Tennis Racket be considered a "Sword" ?

We already got Xenoblade so like... Dark Souls? 2010s, huh? Those were my fanboy years, I didn't really pay a BUNCH of attention

Lest they wanna add Momiji from Ninja Gaiden Razor's Edge/Dead or Alive DOA GIRLS YEAAAAAAAAAH

 

[Will]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. There was this weird thing found which suggests a possible bonus fighter.

Anyone who isn't PapaGenos who says this? Just wanna see some validity.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Btw I played Strive with a friend so all I'm saying is that if I can't do these in Smash

Then Smash is a bad game through and through

 

[volbound1700]

A lot of posters missed my point. If we are going to get in bed with Disney, we might as well break the 4th Party rule and add Mickey.

I am fine with Sora but adding Goofy, Donald, etc. would push us that direction.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Anyone who isn't PapaGenos who says this? Just wanna see some validity.

The evidence that leads up the theory is genuine but does not exclusively have another character as the sole explanation.

As a guy who's done HTML classes and worked on actual tech projects, sometimes the mess of the behind the scenes works shows through where you hope no-one will notice. This might be the case here.

 

[spicynun]

I'm at a point where my only hope is the new characters bring some great music. My wish of Smash having DLC music packs never came true so this is the closest thing. Maybe even another song with a mii costume. One of my favorite parts of Smash is the huge library of amazing music to listen to while playing.

 

[Guynamednelson]

A lot of posters missed my point. If we are going to get in bed with Disney, we might as well break the 4th Party rule and add Mickey.

I am fine with Sora but adding Goofy, Donald, etc. would push us that direction.

If we are going to get in bed with Microsoft, we might as well break the 4th Party rule and add Clippy.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A lot of posters missed my point. If we are going to get in bed with Disney, we might as well break the 4th Party rule and add Mickey.

I am fine with Sora but adding Goofy, Donald, etc. would push us that direction.

But you're missing how Sakurai's been consistent in that regard for his vision and still firmly believes it

 

[Garteam]

I think the question is less about whether or not Sora could work without Disney's IPs (he could, Kingdom Hearts has more than enough original content to pull from), it's about whether Nintendo and, more importantly, Disney can reach an agreement about whether or not to include Disney's IPs.

If Sakurai says Sora's not happening if he brings Disney IPs and Disney says Sora's not happening unless he brings Disney IPs, then Sora's unfortunately not happening.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Jimminy Christmas, we are all going to be wrong about who is get revealed tomorrow anyway.

“It’s Springman! It’s Springman!” Min Min.

Hardly anyone saw Sephiroth coming.

Everyone thought it would be Rex & Pyra, not Pyra & Mythra.

Even harkening back to the first pass, I hardly ever saw anyone mention Hero, Terry, or Byleth.

Throughout both Fighter’s Passes I have only gotten Hero, Byleth, and Min Min correct. Not as a “who’s next?!” guess either. Just a general prediction.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Another argument in favor of getting non-game stuff, is that there is Advent Children content in the game, and despite Advent Children being based on Final Fantasy 7, a videogame, it's stiill first of all a movie.
It seems they are trying to avoid non-game content for those series that are games but also other media (for example, Pokèmon does not make references to the anime, aside of that Ash Greninja thing); though with Final Fantasy, they put in Advent Children specific content.

I think that the rule about non-game content is very loose and it depends on the context.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Jimminy Christmas, we are all going to be wrong about who is get revealed tomorrow anyway.

“It’s Springman! It’s Springman!” Min Min.

Hardly anyone saw Sephiroth coming.

Everyone thought it would be Rex & Pyra, not Pyra & Mythra.

Even harkening back to the first pass, I hardly ever saw anyone mention Hero, Terry, or Byleth.

Throughout both Fighter’s Passes I have only gotten Hero, Byleth, and Min Min correct. Not as a “who’s next?!” guess either. Just a general prediction.

Hero got a ton of talk, though it was mostly Erdrick thanks to the datamine and specific leakers mentioning characters they knew of(including sometimes alts).

Rest, yeah. Byleth got a bit, though, for the record.

 

[Louie G.]

“It’s Springman! It’s Springman!” Min Min.

Min Min was equally speculated, maybe even moreso because Spring Man was an AT. He was hotly discussed too but it wasn't an overwhelming majority.

Everyone thought it would be Rex & Pyra, not Pyra & Mythra.

Even Sakurai thought it would be Rex & Pyra. For all intents and purposes anyone speculating Xenoblade 2 was correct, in my book.

 

[7NATOR]

If you are going to go the Sora route, why not just go for the most iconic animated IP character of all-time and get Mickey Mouse? Mickey Mouse has been in a TON of video game franchises and some of his appearances are iconic.

Would there be anything more iconic than Mario vs. Mickey Mouse. The two most famous fiction cartoon IP ever?

I'll be honest, I think even Disney knows that Mario vs Mickey Mouse is a big deal, and I think a good part of the reason talks for Sora in Smash seemingly feel through was because it was Disney themselves that pushed for Mickey Mouse in Smash, and also were probably very specific in how they wanted Kingdom Hearts represented in Smash, which perhaps might have been too much either in Licensing costs (which I actually don't think was the case) or too much in Development costs for the Smash team (which I think was the case)

In any case I do agree on both sides of the Sora debate. Sora can still have some adequate representation without the Disney content, but I also agree with other people that it feel kind of Hollow if Disney wasn't represented in Someway in Smash. It all depends on how much Nintendo/Sakurai want Sora in Smash, and what they are willing to sacrifice to get him in there, whether it's Time, money, etc

BURGER KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!

But yeah, naw Square presentation got rough, mistakes were made, people dragged other people through the mud over it... WHOOF! BAR FIGHT CENTRAL. Smash Speculation was at that "oh lord is this gonna go on for another months" or whatever.

Could a Golf Club or Tennis Racket be considered a "Sword" ?

We already got Xenoblade so like... Dark Souls? 2010s, huh? Those were my fanboy years, I didn't really pay a BUNCH of attention

Lest they wanna add Momiji from Ninja Gaiden Razor's Edge/Dead or Alive DOA GIRLS YEAAAAAAAAAH

I saw a little of the Fatigue on Smash Speculation. to be honest, even I'm feeling it.

I thought about if a Golf Club or Tennis Racket could be a sword, but nah I don't think it would count. I looked in Steve's DLC tournament about tools and it had every weapon user in that tournament, Except for any Sword fighters. So I think one of the next characters has to use swords Specifically.

The character I think I came to a conclusion to for this is more...mechanical in nature, but I get more into it when I post the full predictions

 

[volbound1700]

But you're missing how Sakurai's been consistent in that regard for his vision and still firmly believes it

Ugh... again you miss my point. I am being factitious. In many ways, I am agreeing with your position.

You guys realize that I was half joking with my post. Perhaps I should have put lol. I know that Sakurai is HIGHLY against 4th-party characters. No need to argue that point.

I was agreeing with most of you regarding the challenging of including Sora with Disney content. It would open the 4th-party wall. If we did that, might as well just tear it full down.