Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SNEKeater]

This is what it mostly boils down to and why it kind of frustrates me when people act like it's stupid to suggest that it'd be cool to see a new genre in Smash speaking in broad terms. A lot of the time people will kneejerk react to what sounds like a "quota" and dismiss it as not important when it fails to acknowledge that some people just play other kinds of games that have never been given that fair shake.

Which is why, like what was mentioned before, it frustrates me even more that people use the genre thing toward platformers of all genres. It really trivializes what I personally stand for when desiring more variety and a wider spread of game types because people just use it to be like, RPGs lame platformers cool. When personally I'm kind of tired of both of them getting precedent over every other kind of game. Although to be fair, those labels are incredibly vague.

Don't get me wrong either, I'm not trying to put you in particular on blast SNEKeater because I agree with what you said for the most part. I'm just using this as a springboard to vent further about the trivialization and misunderstanding of what I mean when I suggest that like, I want a puzzle character or a rhythm character or whatever. I have my preferences within that sphere but chances are I'd be happy to get not only the first actual character from a kind of game that I'm much more actively invested in but also a style of game that offers brand new gameplay opportunities untapped by any character we've seen thus far. Something more emblematic of my own gaming experiences while also providing a new voice among the roster.

So it's just lame that when I say something like "I'm tired of seeing one genre get all the love" most of the pushback I get is from... people who really like JRPGs or platformers or actively support characters from those genres. If the scenario was flipped I think everyone would be a lot more empathetic. But as I've said in the past, it's just on me for preferring weird ass niche games lmao.

Don't worry, I understand you. I said before that I don't care that much about which genres the characters came from, but that doesn't mean I think having characters from FPS, puzzles or dancing games (to name a few examples) wouldn't be nice. I'd like it and it would be very cool, and I think everyone can agree with that.

I guess in the end both "sides" get kinda defensive, because for example I don't believe it's fair to treat different JRPG series like they're the same or very similar, like some people do sometimes. Obviously, they will share some elements, just like happens with other genres, and while there's an overlap in fans, I'd say a series like Persona has barely nothing in common with Kingdom Hearts, for example, beyond basic elements.

But I really agree with you with the last part, I also think that's lame. Like, I'd love to see certain platformer/RPG characters in Smash, but I think it's undeniable that both genres are in a very good spot when it comes to Smash representation.

Maybe part of the "problem" is that some genres, while not impossible, might be harder to implement into a fighting game. Like others, I think almost any character could have a Smash moveset, some will be harder to create and others not so much, but still. But I can certainly see why some genres could suppose a hard time when it comes to get a playable rep. The Chorus Kids didn't make it and while it could have been because of the 3DS limitations, I could imagine that creating a moveset for such a particular fighter would be challenging. And puzzle characters like Arle sound fascinating to me, but it also feels like potentially a lot of work from a dev perspective. So at that point I think it depends on how on board Nintendo and Sakurai are with the idea. Steve was definitely a challenge for Sakurai and his team, but seemingly there was a lot of interest from Nintendo to make it happen, so Sakurai made an extra effort.
Then there's fan demand, which I don't know if helps a lot with the situation because besides a few exceptions, such as Phoenix Wright, most characters you'll see in fan polls usually come from either platformers, RPGs or action games. Maybe if there was a bigger support for puzzle or FPS characters Nintendo would end noticing that there's a significant interest for certain characters that they might have never thought about.

I'd definitely like to see a new genre in Smash with the 2 remaining characters, but unfortunately I don't feel like it's the most likely scenario. I'd be glad to be proven wrong though.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Y'all:

I don't think the Toys for Bob situation with them now supporting CoD will DECONFIRM Crash, but it might hurt him a bit... what do y'all think?

 

[volbound1700]

Y'all:

I don't think the Toys for Bob situation with them now supporting CoD will DECONFIRM Crash, but it might hurt him a bit... what do y'all think?

Unfortunately, I think Crash is a long shot. He has probably been the #1 character discussed on Youtube and other Channels with Leaks and Hype to make the game but there really isn't much based on Nintendo's past selections and other items that would give him much of a hope. I think Rayman has a better chance and I am not sure if I like Rayman's chances either.

 

[Nekoo]

Y'all:

I don't think the Toys for Bob situation with them now supporting CoD will DECONFIRM Crash, but it might hurt him a bit... what do y'all think?

The only thing that might hurt Crash is Activision's stupidity and if they woke up on the right foot the monday of (if there was any) negociation.

 

[ZelDan]

Y'all:

I don't think the Toys for Bob situation with them now supporting CoD will DECONFIRM Crash, but it might hurt him a bit... what do y'all think?

The Toys for Bob stuff has no bearing on Crash' chances at all since it all happened after FP2 planning.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Y'all:

I don't think the Toys for Bob situation with them now supporting CoD will DECONFIRM Crash, but it might hurt him a bit... what do y'all think?

If Crash is one of our last two characters, then he would have been decided on long before this Toys for Bob/Call of Duty problem happened. I don't think it has any bearing on his inclusion one way or the other.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Unfortunately, I think Crash is a long shot. He has probably been the #1 character discussed on Youtube and other Channels with Leaks and Hype to make the game but there really isn't much based on Nintendo's past selections and other items that would give him much of a hope. I think Rayman has a better chance and I am not sure if I like Rayman's chances either.

That's a fair perspective.

I'm just thinking we haven't had a platform character of some kind since Banjo and platforming is a genre heavily associated with Nintendo in many ways.
Oh well lol
I'll take Rayman, give me a trailer where he's like "So long, Brawlhalla!"

 

[3BitSaurus]

Ngl, I always find it weird when people try to spin this thing about "JRPGs vs the haters" or "JRPGs vs platformers".

Like, yeah, platformers are more numerous, mostly because Nintendo's headliner is a platformer franchise. What did people expect? That's like not getting why most of our picks are japanese.

Even if we count franchises instead of characters:

Platformers: [*][*] (11)
RPGs: (7)

However, it stands to note that JRPGs are getting new characters and franchises at a faster rate in the past two Smash games (1:2 in Smash 4 and 2:2 in Ultimate)... which is also understandable, because the genre went through a "renaissance" in the past few years and there's a lot of good **** to pull from.

Still, I find the claim that this fandom is biased towards platformers is really weird when the only ones that are brought up often are Rayman, Crash and Hayabusa*, while RPGs have Tales, Souls, MegaTen, PSO, Monster Hunter, Kingdom Hearts, heck even Xenosaga, the Falcom crew and Sakura Wars get the spotlight every once in a while.

*Counting these guys as platformers because that's what they originated as, even if their most recent titles are from other genres.

I have MWs in all sorts of genres, including both of the above, but I can definitely get when people say they want variety.

...And now for something completely different: what do you figure the chances are for Chinese or Korean reps in the next Smash? I think Dungeon Fighter Online seems to be hitting a good spot in their IP expansion - reminds me of what Riot is doing. And Genshin might not have a shot now, being a 2020 release and all, but if it keeps up the pace, it might be a serious contender for next time.

(Obligatory SKX31 tag.)

 

[volbound1700]

The only thing that might hurt Crash is Activision's stupidity and if they woke up on the right foot the monday of (if there was any) negociation.

Likely true. There is nothing out there to show that Activision and Nintendo have had any talks about Smash or Activision has any interest in putting their IP on Smash.

This is why I think Rayman has a better shot. Ubisoft, clearly, wants Rayman in Smash. Not sure if Nintendo does or not. I guess we will find out with the last two spots. I get the feeling that Nintendo is the hold-up with Rayman. Not sure if that is the case with Crash where Activision could be the hold up.

I do think Square-Enix was the reason we don't have Geno as a Playable Fighter (however they were generous enough to make him a costume and spirit).

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Chinese rep?
LoL.
Dude, PC gamers and LoL players might go nuts over someone from LoL getting into Smash.

 

[Nekoo]

I do think Square-Enix was the reason we don't have Geno as a Playable Fighter (however they were generous enough to make him a costume and spirit).

Maybe for brawl, but not for smash 4 and Ultimate, where Sakurai did tell us how it started, he went there, expecting nothing but a "no" asked for Cloud and Square-Enix themselves were shocked that he wanted Cloud and not someone recent like Noctis or Lightning.
Same for Hero, where he expected one, even just a slime, but ended up with 4 Heroes.
And Then a bazillion of spirit event Square-Enix
and then Sephiroth.

Square-Enix is really having a big change of heart in the recent years, whenever it comes to their game quality, announcement and management all around. So it's pretty nice to see.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Actually, yea.

The Toys for Bob stuff has no bearing on Crash' chances at all since it all happened after FP2 planning.

If Crash is one of our last two characters, then he would have been decided on long before this Toys for Bob/Call of Duty problem happened. I don't think it has any bearing on his inclusion one way or the other.

I think you're both right.
Fact, another strong argument FOR Crash is the Skylanders crossover that Bowser and DK got pulled into.
Worth noting that Activision went to Nintendo for that one BUT Nintendo did say yes.

Also fun fact, Skylanders was ALMOST a Nintendo exclusive series, but in the end, a lack of interest on Nintendo's part was the ultimate demise of such a possibility.

 

[Brother AJ]

I would be legitimately shocked if it was found out that Crash in Smash was never once even TALKED about between Nintendo and Activision. The real question for me is whether a deal was able to be made.

 

[volbound1700]

Maybe for brawl, but not for smash 4 and Ultimate, where Sakurai did tell us how it started, he went there, expecting nothing but a "no" asked for Cloud and Square-Enix themselves were shocked that he wanted Cloud and not someone recent like Noctis or Lightning.
Same for Hero, where he expected one, even just a slime, but ended up with 4 Heroes.
And Then a bazillion of spirit event Square-Enix
and then Sephiroth.

Square-Enix is really having a big change of heart in the recent years, whenever it comes to their game quality, announcement and management all around. So it's pretty nice to see.

To be honest, Geno would have made a great addition for the fans but would not have brought anyone into Smash.

The reason that I bring up Square-Enix (this is all speculation that I read and not actual proven fact) was that the rumors where that Square-Enix was surprised by all of the Western Demand for Geno and do not understand why there is so much love for a character from a dead franchise. They fear that if he is made into a playable character in Smash, there would be an expectation in the fanbase for a new game and SE has no plans to currently make a new title with Geno. That is all speculation.

Sephiroth was a tough one for me. He is definitely iconic enough to be in the roster and was a good addition but we already had FF7 representation. I really wanted a "New World." Still, he also completed FF7 as well because it was underrepresented in base game and Smash 4, especially with only two tracks. One annoyance with his addition was that it would have also been a good chance to get music tracks and spirits from other FF titles but they gave us only FF7 stuff.

The desire for New Worlds is so much so that I would trade a second Sonic rep (even though it is probably my favorite franchise in Smash outside of Mario) for a new character like Rayman.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Also fun fact, Skylanders was ALMOST a Nintendo IP but in the end, a lack of interest on Nintendo's part as the ultimate demise of such a possibility.

Considering how fast the toys to life fad was dying out by the time the last Skylanders game released (I'm pretty sure it was Imaginators, correct me if I'm wrong) they probably didn't wanna deal with that sinking ship. Which is kind of a shame since while I wasn't a fan of the series it was really cool seeing characters like Spyro, Crash, Dr. Neo Cortex, Bowser, and Donkey Kong get in. Who knows how many more guest characters we would have gotten had the series not discontinued.

 

[volbound1700]

Considering how fast the toys to life fad was dying out by the time the last Skylanders game released (I'm pretty sure it was Imaginators, correct me if I'm wrong) they probably didn't wanna deal with that sinking ship. Which is kind of a shame since while I wasn't a fan of the series it was really cool seeing characters like Spyro, Crash, Dr. Neo Cortex, Bowser, and Donkey Kong get in. Who knows how many more guest characters we would have gotten had the series not discontinued.

What is funny is if you watch AVGN (Angry Video Game Nerd), there was attempts at toys to life video game fads long before Skylanders was a thing that also failed and sizzled out. (Skylanders was probably the most successful company at it with the exception of Amiibos).

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Considering how fast the toys to life fad was dying out by the time the last Skylanders game released (I'm pretty sure it was Imaginators, correct me if I'm wrong) they probably didn't wanna deal with that sinking ship. Which is kind of a shame since while I wasn't a fan of the series it was really cool seeing characters like Spyro, Crash, Dr. Neo Cortex, Bowser, and Donkey Kong get in. Who knows how many more guest characters we would have gotten had the series not discontinued.

So I have no need to correct you in the beginning cuz you're right, Imaginators has currently been the last MAINLINE game in the series.
Same, dude, wonder how many more guest characters could've shown up.


Wanna digress, the toys to life genre that Skylanders carried for a bit did contribute to amiibo's rising.
That's like the one reason I want Skylanders to get some kind of smash content, but that's just me. If Crash and/or Spyro got in, the opportunity is there if Toys for Bob gives them the ok.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

What is funny is if you watch AVGN (Angry Video Game Nerd), there was attempts at toys to life video game fads long before Skylanders was a thing that also failed and sizzled out. (Skylanders was probably the most successful company at it with the exception of Amiibos).

There was also Disney Infinity, which also died out eventually.

Wanna digress, the toys to life genre that Skylanders carried for a bit did contribute to amiibo's rising.
That's like the one reason I want Skylanders to get some kind of smash content, but that's just me. If Crash and/or Spyro got in, the opportunity is there if Toys for Bob gives them the ok.

I don't know if amiibo is in the same class as Sklylanders. The only games that kind of felt like it was "toys to life" was Smash 4 and Ultimate with how you could train your amiibo to fight. Almost every other game that uses amiibo are mostly just fun bonuses if you have the figure, like Mii costumes in Mario Kart 8 and Yoshi colors in Yoshi's Woolly World. Maybe a few exceptions I'm forgetting.

 

[spicynun]

I can never imagine GTA in smash. The fact that it is even brought up in speculation goes to show how expectations have been thrown out the window. I remember the days of lurking this board back when people were speculating if certain Nintendo characters would even return or not in past games

 

[GilTheGreat19]

There was also Disney Infinity, which also died out eventually.

Dear god my childhood is unfolding right before my eyes

 

[PK Duststorm]

I want Crash in smash so there can be another high quality render with the sweet goodness that is animal fur/feather/scale texturing in Ultimate.

Early this year one of the first Nintendo advertisements featured Crash and Spyro alongside heavy hitters like mario. While that certainly doesnt imply anything, I'd just love for these two boys to round us out. I halfway wish Nintendo just bought them two, if only so I can get new spyro.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I can never imagine GTA in smash. The fact that it is even brought up in speculation goes to show how expectations have been thrown out the window. I remember the days of lurking this board back when people were speculating if certain Nintendo characters would even return or not in past games

Just saying..
They don't say EVERYONE IS HERE for nothing.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Has Smash ever used content that was cut from a game before?

I was wondering this earlier, because I was thinking what songs I'd like to come alongside an SMT character, and remembered that this is a thing:

Even though it wasn't used in the game, it's been released on soundtracks later, so it's technically an official song. Would something like this have a chance of being included in Smash, or would it just immediately be discounted?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Someone said that the artist behind this picture did more of these
Whoever it was, can you send the link to that doc again? Thx!

 

[kylexv]

So out of the topic of JRPGs, how about we do this topic?

Which enemy from a Nintendo game are you most scared of? Comment below with what you think the most popular response is and check back later today for the results! pic.twitter.com/pd9U7qGkJh

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) June 3, 2021

Which enemy from a Nintendo game scared you most? And I won't say which ones are most prominent in the reply section.

This thing

Spoiler: Trust me you don't want to see this

Yes, it's called a Twerkey. Yes, I hate it.

 

[Pinguino21v]

To be honest, none of the FP2 characters strike me as a "long-time" request.

That's why I said it was a "second chance" FP, not a "long-time requested" FP.

 

[Deleted member]

This hasn’t been the longest speculation period between character releases but it’s certainly been the most painful as far as discussion goes.

 

[7NATOR]

So with characters like Mega Man, Ryu/Ken, Terry and Min-Min, we've gotten characters that have broken the Controls of Smash a little bit

Mega Man doesn't have Side Tilt or Neutral Air, Ryu/Ken get Extra tilts, Terry gets Dodge Attack and Back Special, And Min Min doesn't have Side Tilt, Forward Aerial, Back Aerial, Neutral Special, and Side Special, but has Air Smash Attacks and such

So I got 2 questions

1.Do you think any of the Final 2 characters will break the Smash Controls also

2.How would you feel if we got a character that Losses regular defensive options, like Shielding or Dodging. Do you think it could work, or do you think it Would be too much

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Ngl, I always find it weird when people try to spin this thing about "JRPGs vs the haters" or "JRPGs vs platformers".

Like, yeah, platformers are more numerous, mostly because Nintendo's headliner is a platformer franchise. What did people expect? That's like not getting why most of our picks are japanese.

Even if we count franchises instead of characters:

Platformers: [*][*] (11)
RPGs: (7)

However, it stands to note that JRPGs are getting new characters and franchises at a faster rate in the past two Smash games (1:2 in Smash 4 and 2:2 in Ultimate)... which is also understandable, because the genre went through a "renaissance" in the past few years and there's a lot of good **** to pull from.

Still, I find the claim that this fandom is biased towards platformers is really weird when the only ones that are brought up often are Rayman, Crash and Hayabusa*, while RPGs have Tales, Souls, MegaTen, PSO, Monster Hunter, Kingdom Hearts, heck even Xenosaga, the Falcom crew and Sakura Wars get the spotlight every once in a while.

*Counting these guys as platformers because that's what they originated as, even if their most recent titles are from other genres.

I have MWs in all sorts of genres, including both of the above, but I can definitely get when people say they want variety.

...And now for something completely different: what do you figure the chances are for Chinese or Korean reps in the next Smash? I think Dungeon Fighter Online seems to be hitting a good spot in their IP expansion - reminds me of what Riot is doing. And Genshin might not have a shot now, being a 2020 release and all, but if it keeps up the pace, it might be a serious contender for next time.

(Obligatory SKX31 tag.)

Genshin Impact if it still ends up being a big deal by then.

 

[SKX31]

Chinese rep?
LoL.
Dude, PC gamers and LoL players might go nuts over someone from LoL getting into Smash.

Wouldn't count it as Chinese just as I wouldn't count Minecraft (which is also dummy huge there) as Chinese - at the end of the day LoL is made by an American studio and while Tencent owns Riot a lot of Tencent's MO has been to acquire stakes in or entire dev studios.

Now yeah, if you wanna appeal there you go with primarily LoL and Minecraft: I saw a decent-to-strong uptick in interest there as part of Terry's and Steve's respective reveals. Even if a lot of non-console fans there went "Wait, what IS this game even?" which speaks a lot to how niché consoles are there (10 million consoles combined is not a whole lot compared to the ca. 300 million computer and ca. 720 million mobile players in the country). It suggests that the reaction to LoL in Smash there will be blunted to some degree, but I'm not sure it'll be entirely blunted considering that the LoL fanbase is very vocal and would talk a lot in this scenario, the previous two got a pretty good reaction plus Mario and Pikachu are well known there.

...And now for something completely different: what do you figure the chances are for Chinese or Korean reps in the next Smash? I think Dungeon Fighter Online seems to be hitting a good spot in their IP expansion - reminds me of what Riot is doing. And Genshin might not have a shot now, being a 2020 release and all, but if it keeps up the pace, it might be a serious contender for next time.

I find that question extremely difficult to answer, but it's certainly possible.

Part of the issue is that both have been kinda limited in terms of international reach historically compared to Japan's. While DFO and MapleStory have largely bucked that (and PUBG / GI recently did that too) those are the only cases IIRC where those games have become known in places that aren't hometown (or close by).

To take Tencent as a prime example: they don't have a lot of characters themselves people can actually name (especially outside of China). It's a by-product of Chinese video game corps having been historically mostly focused on the internal market.

A good example of that problem is Tencent's Honor of Kings (their mobile LoL) - which is one of Tencent's biggest games no doubt, since it's the most played game in China consistently. Its characters are mostly historical / public domain figures that are given more modern looks, with a couple licensed characters sprinkled in. Most of said figures are pulled from Chinese history / literarture, but it also has Miyamoto Musashi, Marco Polo and Mai Shirainui as characters. When Tencent released HoK internationally as Arena of Valor, they gave it a major re-skin and instead went with licensed characters like Superman and Batman.

This results in no one really having a clue who HoK's Gongsun Li even is when she strolled into SamSho PS4 and decided to bring a parasol to a sword fight. It speaks to their reliance on the social network as a key cog in their web and licensing other IPs (Tencent not only produces Pokemon Unite, but a host of other licensed IPs like CoD Mobile and Street Fighter Duel).

This begs another question: Will GI and say DFO lead to further games from those countries gaining mainstream attention? I kinda lean yes because there's been a small but notable upsurge in indie titles that gain attention (Bright Memory, Lost Soul Aside) and because bigger corps are also starting to lean towards producing larger-scale games and releasing them internationally. Especially now when the internal market's "full" more or less, and it's still kinda onerous to release games there. I'm not sure mihoyo would've released GI internationally if they hadn't already dipped their toes with Honkai Impact 3rd, and the upsurge in anime interest there is evident by Azur Lane.

As far as Korea, one aspect worth noting here is that there are relatively few video game corps there compared to Japan, and most of them seem to be relatively small. PUBG is kinda an exeption to this, but it's also been content with sticking it to the computer for the most part. MapleStory and DFO are underrated candidates here, but its owner Nexon has not interacted with Nintendo all that much, which makes those games' chances difficult to call.

Anyhow, it'll take time, and my final answer is going to be: Maybe. Depends entirely on when Smash 6 is coming out. To play RTC: my wild guess is 5-10 % by 2025, and 15-20 % by 2030-2035. Playing things conservatively here. GI feels like a semi-safe bet if it still is a big deal by that point.

This hasn’t been the longest speculation period between character releases but it’s certainly been the most painful as far as discussion goes.

I can't really decide if it's this period or the Grinch period which was worse really. One could make a solid argument for either really.

 

[Schnee117]

I can't really decide if it's this period or the Grinch period which was worse really. One could make a solid argument for either really.

Only one period had the thread swarmed with 4chan incels and it wasn't this one.

 

[volbound1700]

There was also Disney Infinity, which also died out eventually.

I don't know if amiibo is in the same class as Sklylanders. The only games that kind of felt like it was "toys to life" was Smash 4 and Ultimate with how you could train your amiibo to fight. Almost every other game that uses amiibo are mostly just fun bonuses if you have the figure, like Mii costumes in Mario Kart 8 and Yoshi colors in Yoshi's Woolly World. Maybe a few exceptions I'm forgetting.

You are correct that Amiibo is different but the closet thing to put them into is "Toys for Life". To be honest, they are the most successful Toys for Life ever.

So with characters like Mega Man, Ryu/Ken, Terry and Min-Min, we've gotten characters that have broken the Controls of Smash a little bit

Mega Man doesn't have Side Tilt or Neutral Air, Ryu/Ken get Extra tilts, Terry gets Dodge Attack and Back Special, And Min Min doesn't have Side Tilt, Forward Aerial, Back Aerial, Neutral Special, and Side Special, but has Air Smash Attacks and such

So I got 2 questions

1.Do you think any of the Final 2 characters will break the Smash Controls also

2.How would you feel if we got a character that Losses regular defensive options, like Shielding or Dodging. Do you think it could work, or do you think it Would be too much

For question #2, they would have to be fast to makeup for the inability to block. They may also require unblockable attacks similar to Ganondorf.

 

[SNEKeater]

Ngl, I always find it weird when people try to spin this thing about "JRPGs vs the haters" or "JRPGs vs platformers".

Like, yeah, platformers are more numerous, mostly because Nintendo's headliner is a platformer franchise. What did people expect? That's like not getting why most of our picks are japanese.

Even if we count franchises instead of characters:

Platformers: [*][*] (11)
RPGs: (7)

However, it stands to note that JRPGs are getting new characters and franchises at a faster rate in the past two Smash games (1:2 in Smash 4 and 2:2 in Ultimate)... which is also understandable, because the genre went through a "renaissance" in the past few years and there's a lot of good **** to pull from.

Still, I find the claim that this fandom is biased towards platformers is really weird when the only ones that are brought up often are Rayman, Crash and Hayabusa*, while RPGs have Tales, Souls, MegaTen, PSO, Monster Hunter, Kingdom Hearts, heck even Xenosaga, the Falcom crew and Sakura Wars get the spotlight every once in a while.

*Counting these guys as platformers because that's what they originated as, even if their most recent titles are from other genres.

I have MWs in all sorts of genres, including both of the above, but I can definitely get when people say they want variety.

...And now for something completely different: what do you figure the chances are for Chinese or Korean reps in the next Smash? I think Dungeon Fighter Online seems to be hitting a good spot in their IP expansion - reminds me of what Riot is doing. And Genshin might not have a shot now, being a 2020 release and all, but if it keeps up the pace, it might be a serious contender for next time.

(Obligatory SKX31 tag.)

You have a point here, but I think we should also note that Rayman, Crash and Spyro are basically the only feasible options in the eyes of most Smash fans. Like, it's not like there are not more platformers out there, but no one is expecting Yooka Layle to get in, for example, so support for said characters barely exists.

This crosser over with the fact that for multiple reasons, in the last years we have barely seen new platformers gaining traction. Most of the fans of the genre are folks that are behind series that aren't precisely recent. It doesn't help as well that most of video game development has shifted to different projects. Companies still make platformers but these projects are usually a low priority for them, and therefore, said projects get low budgets. The market beyond Nintendo has been changing and these games have kinda faded from the mainstream, unless you're Sonic/Crash/Rayman.

The most interesting platformers in recent times are probably from indie devs, and well, it doesn't seem like we will get an indie character in Smash anytime soon. (inb4 we get an indie fighter at E3)
Not to say, most of the biggest names in the genre are already in Smash. I'm convinced Crash will eventually make it to Smash, not so sure about Rayman to be honest.

In the other side, as others said, JRPGs have been gaining popularity again, after being kinda "despised" during the PS3-360 era by most of the media and the general public. Nekoo already explained how groundbreaking Persona 5 was. Souls games have basically created a new genre. Then you have multiple latest games from different JRPG series becoming the best selling games of their franchises, like Dragon Quest XI, Persona 5 or Kingdom Hearts 3.

The community talking more about JRPGs can be sort of explained, in my opinion, by that, and the fact that Ultimate as we all know has been adding characters no one expected before. Characters such as Joker or Terry opened the floodgates and a lot of series that were seen as impossible for multiple reasons, now are actually realizable in the eyes of most fans. And it's no surprise there are a lot of JRPG series, and I guess maybe JRPG fans are now more passionate than ever.

Has Smash ever used content that was cut from a game before?

I was wondering this earlier, because I was thinking what songs I'd like to come alongside an SMT character, and remembered that this is a thing:

Even though it wasn't used in the game, it's been released on soundtracks later, so it's technically an official song. Would something like this have a chance of being included in Smash, or would it just immediately be discounted?

The first track of the video is always ****ing used in SMT videos on Youtube lol

I'd love if they decided to pick some of the unreleased tracks, but I personally doubt it. In SMT's case I feel they would just stick with mainline games, which already have a lot of cool music. Unless Atlus plays very nice and gives Sakurai like 50 songs, I don't see it happening.

 

[volbound1700]

Wouldn't count it as Chinese just as I wouldn't count Minecraft (which is also dummy huge there) as Chinese - at the end of the day LoL is made by an American studio and while Tencent owns Riot a lot of Tencent's MO has been to acquire stakes in or entire dev studios.

Now yeah, if you wanna appeal there you go with primarily LoL and Minecraft: I saw a decent-to-strong uptick in interest there as part of Terry's and Steve's respective reveals. Even if a lot of non-console fans there went "Wait, what IS this game even?" which speaks a lot to how niché consoles are there (10 million consoles combined is not a whole lot compared to the ca. 300 million computer and ca. 720 million mobile players in the country). It suggests that the reaction to LoL in Smash there will be blunted to some degree, but I'm not sure it'll be entirely blunted considering that the LoL fanbase is very vocal and would talk a lot in this scenario, the previous two got a pretty good reaction plus Mario and Pikachu are well known there.



I find that question extremely difficult to answer, but it's certainly possible.

Part of the issue is that both have been kinda limited in terms of international reach historically compared to Japan's. While DFO and MapleStory have largely bucked that (and PUBG / GI recently did that too) those are the only cases IIRC where those games have become known in places that aren't hometown (or close by).

To take Tencent as a prime example: they don't have a lot of characters themselves people can actually name (especially outside of China). It's a by-product of Chinese video game corps having been historically mostly focused on the internal market.

A good example of that problem is Tencent's Honor of Kings (their mobile LoL) - which is one of Tencent's biggest games no doubt, since it's the most played game in China consistently. Its characters are mostly historical / public domain figures that are given more modern looks, with a couple licensed characters sprinkled in. Most of said figures are pulled from Chinese history / literarture, but it also has Miyamoto Musashi, Marco Polo and Mai Shirainui as characters. When Tencent released HoK internationally as Arena of Valor, they gave it a major re-skin and instead went with licensed characters like Superman and Batman.

This results in no one really having a clue who HoK's Gongsun Li even is when she strolled into SamSho PS4 and decided to bring a parasol to a sword fight. It speaks to their reliance on the social network as a key cog in their web and licensing other IPs (Tencent not only produces Pokemon Unite, but a host of other licensed IPs like CoD Mobile and Street Fighter Duel).

This begs another question: Will GI and say DFO lead to further games from those countries gaining mainstream attention? I kinda lean yes because there's been a small but notable upsurge in indie titles that gain attention (Bright Memory, Lost Soul Aside) and because bigger corps are also starting to lean towards producing larger-scale games and releasing them internationally. Especially now when the internal market's "full" more or less, and it's still kinda onerous to release games there. I'm not sure mihoyo would've released GI internationally if they hadn't already dipped their toes with Honkai Impact 3rd, and the upsurge in anime interest there is evident by Azur Lane.

As far as Korea, one aspect worth noting here is that there are relatively few video game corps there compared to Japan, and most of them seem to be relatively small. PUBG is kinda an exeption to this, but it's also been content with sticking it to the computer for the most part. MapleStory and DFO are underrated candidates here, but its owner Nexon has not interacted with Nintendo all that much, which makes those games' chances difficult to call.

Anyhow, it'll take time, and my final answer is going to be: Maybe. Depends entirely on when Smash 6 is coming out. To play RTC: my wild guess is 5-10 % by 2025, and 15-20 % by 2030-2035. Playing things conservatively here. GI feels like a semi-safe bet if it still is a big deal by that point.



I can't really decide if it's this period or the Grinch period which was worse really. One could make a solid argument for either really.

The distance between Minn Minn and Steve probably felt like the longest stretch without news. Granted, COVID-19 played a factor.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

The first track of the video is always ****ing used in SMT videos on Youtube lol

I'd love if they decided to pick some of the unreleased tracks, but I personally doubt it. In SMT's case I feel they would just stick with mainline games, which already have a lot of cool music. Unless Atlus plays very nice and gives Sakurai like 50 songs, I don't see it happening.

Yeah, that's what I think would happen, especially after the (disappointing) Persona music selection, which is a shame because the spin-offs have a lot of amazing music.

Spoiler: MegaTen spin-off music

 

[PacificFun]

Nintendo of America Twitter is just trolling us now and I love it.

 

[Garteam]

I think there are a handful of reasons why platformer overrepresentation isn't really viewed as an issue, while JRPG overrepresentation is:

1. Smash itself takes heavily from platformer games, so there's logically a lot of overlap between people who enjoy platformers and people who enjoy Smash.
2. JRPGs are generally more difficult to get into than platformers. You're much more likely to find someone who doesn't understand the appeal of a JRPG vs. someone who doesn't understand the appeal of a platformer.
3. Platformers have historically been more popular than JRPGs in the West. Donkey Kong, one of the first platformers, was designed with Western audiences in mind and the genre has enjoyed consistent popularity since. JRPGs had to wait until the late '90s with the English releases of Final Fantasy VII and Pokemon Red/Blue before experiencing mainstream popularity in the West.
4. Most of the platformer characters were introduced early in the series (either in 64, Melee, and Brawl), while many of the JRPG characters (particularly those that aren't Pokemon) were introduced in Smash for Wii U/3DS or later. This leads to platformer characters often being taken for granted, while JRPG characters have to fight back against a perception that they're "stealing spots" from other options.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

YO WAIT
I just thought of a potential parallel to something hear me out:

SMT 3 features Dante, right? So now bare with me:

Bonus Arthur Spirit -> Capcom -> Dante
Bonus Sophia Spirit -> Atlus -> Demi-fiend (FROM SMT3)

I'm probably reaching. But this was fun for 2 seconds .

 

[TheLamerGamer]

YO WAIT
I just thought of a potential parallel to something hear me out:

SMT 3 features Dante, right? So now bare with me:

Bonus Arthur Spirit -> Capcom -> Dante
Bonus Sophia Spirit -> Atlus -> Demi-fiend (FROM SMT3)

I'm probably reaching. But this was fun for 2 seconds .

To be fair, I (and a few other people I think) have thought that that would be a cool double reveal for a while. It won't happen, but it would be amazing.

 

[PacificFun]

They're going into hyper drive.

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1400573012915757060?s=19

Hold on to your butts.