Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Technomage]

Ultimate's base newcomers are as good as you can hope for when you seemingly only dedicate enough time/resources/priority to five new original movesets.

Honestly, that just makes me wish Nintendo would stop being so frugal and spend extra money on more staff to either release their games sooner or release their games with more content without having to delay them.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think a lot of the disappointments with certain first party exclusions in Ultimate are more greatly rooted in certain decisions in Smash 4. That felt like a time when including the likes of Krystal, Dixie, Bandana Dee, etc would have made sense as base game inclusions, especially given that the series hadn't more fully leaned into third parties at that point. Not bringing them into Ultimate is understandable given the focus on Everyone is Here, it just continues to be a downer that (perceived) exclusions from developmental decisions almost a decade ago continue to linger on now, at least to fans of those characters.

 

[Schnee117]

TBF Incin does come from a big franchise and both FE characters are the kind of franchise Nintendo / IS are trying their damndest to push come hell or high water. They're not what most Smash fans wanted though due to percieved overabundance. "Not another Pokemon / FE swordsman", y'know.

The other thing with Incineroar is that we also had the Grinch Hoax going into that presentation and Incineroar wasn't on it so the reaction it got was significantly worse because it meant we didn't get another blowout of about 6 characters despite Sakurai warning us that there wasn't very many left.

 

[Guynamednelson]

hadn't more fully leaned into third parties at that point

"Fully" is an overstatement when FP2 didn't give us a streak of four third parties in a row.

 

[Shroob]

The other thing with Incineroar is that we also had the Grinch Hoax going into that presentation and Incineroar wasn't on it so the reaction it got was significantly worse because it meant we didn't get another blowout of about 6 characters despite Sakurai warning us that there wasn't very many left.

"Sakurai is lying!"


You'd think after everything people would realize the man doesn't lie as much as some would like to believe.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

"Fully" is an overstatement when FP2 didn't give us a streak of four third parties in a row.

I mean comparatively to what Smash had largely been prior to what we saw in Smash 4's DLC and Ultimate overall.

 

[Technomage]

"Sakurai is lying!"


You'd think after everything people would realize the man doesn't lie as much as some would like to believe.

I think they're getting it mixed up with trolling, which Sakurai does do (like with Chrom and Ridley's reveals back at Smash 4).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I don't know, I always felt in the back of my mind like Ultimate was made too early. Like maybe if it happened 20 years later after 2-3 more instalments it would have felt better. I can already see the game causing another divide in the community in the future if the whole "Everyone is here" thing isn't happening because then we'll all go back to the fun game of "Who is going to get cut in the next smash game" and it's just exhausting to see. Sure it's already starting but it's going to feel more draining when it actually happens. We could see the return of the Banjo vs Steve wars which was not at all unpleasant for both sides. People will get sad when their favourite characters don't make the cut and then some veterans return as DLC taking up the time for more newcomers. I'm honestly not looking forward to the next Smash Bros game... whenever that happens. It's like the National dex cut all over again but this time it makes sense why there has to be cuts but I still don't like it.

I don't know, I'm just rambling on here... Ignore me if I'm being dumb about this.

 

[Noipoi]

The other thing with Incineroar is that we also had the Grinch Hoax going into that presentation and Incineroar wasn't on it so the reaction it got was significantly worse because it meant we didn't get another blowout of about 6 characters despite Sakurai warning us that there wasn't very many left.

Good times.

Horrible times.

But good times.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

"Sakurai is lying!"


You'd think after everything people would realize the man doesn't lie as much as some would like to believe.

I guess people still have PTSD from this, even if it was only a second long.

 

[Shroob]

I think they're getting it mixed up with trolling, which Sakurai does do (like with Chrom and Ridley's reveals back at Smash 4).

I mean, there's a stark difference between:

"Other bosses may appear"

and

"I revealed too many characters, there's not enough left oh ****."

 

[Brother AJ]

Let's have some fun..
Come up with splash screen taglines, either for your MWs or for E3-potentials

I'll start:
Doomslayer Unleashes Hell!
Crash Comes to Smash!
Ahri Joins the Smash League!
Tracer brings the cavalry!

Ultimate's base newcomers are as good as you can hope for when you seemingly only dedicate enough time/resources/priority to five new original movesets. Taking into account that Sakurai basically has his hands tied with Pokemon, it having a slot and that slot being promotional being seemingly non-negotiable. So really, eleven newcomers, six non-echoes, five original movesets, and of those, four that weren't mandated.

Though I imagine if Sakurai said he wasn't intending to include Inkling Nintendo would've sent over the executive with glasses.

Obviously I think they chose well, but you also have to weigh that against the fact that the additions were quite limited.

Omg I cannot even imagine the Inklings not making it . Believe it or they were my favorite inclusion in the base roster because of how much I adored the original Splatoon (I was even playing it more than Smash 4 for awhile there). Honestly, I think Splatoon is one of the most fun and innovative IPs Nintendo has released in awhile.

So yea, it was pretty much a sure thing that they would make it, but wow it was still amazing to see. The only thing that bothered was that the Inklings clap at the results screen instead of pouting after a loss. Lol Character development?

 

[Noipoi]

When Sakurai trolls he always takes it back immediately, because he knows he has a fanbase that hangs on his every word.

So yeah. When he said we don’t have that many base game newcomers and didn’t immediately take it back, he was obviously trolling.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't know, I always felt in the back of my mind like Ultimate was made too early. Like maybe if it happened 20 years later after 2-3 more instalments it would have felt better. I can already see the game causing another divide in the community in the future if the whole "Everyone is here" thing isn't happening because then we'll all go back to the fun game of "Who is going to get cut in the next smash game" and it's just exhausting to see. Sure it's already starting but it's going to feel more draining when it actually happens. We could see the return of the Banjo vs Steve wars which was not at all unpleasant for both sides. People will get sad when their favourite characters don't make the cut and then some veterans return as DLC taking up the time for more newcomers. I'm honestly not looking forward to the next Smash Bros game... whenever that happens. It's like the National dex cut all over again but this time it makes sense why there has to be cuts but I still don't like it.

I don't know, I'm just rambling on here... Ignore me if I'm being dumb about this.

No, I feel the exact same way. Ultimate made me appreciate every single character and if even one goes, it just won’t feel the same. Especially if they don’t become DLC later. I genuinely enjoyed Snake’s inclusion in brawl and was disheartened when he didn’t return for 4, not even as DLC. Sure he returned in Ultimate, heralding EVERYONE IS HERE, but I don’t wanna go through the loss like that again, nor do I want anyone else to.

I do hope Ult DX happens or that the next full Smash still has EVERYONE IS HERE and builds off Ultimate. Like some have suggested, Nintendo can and should afford to throw a few more bucks around to make more content without delays at launch. Maybe hiring more people too.

 

[Schnee117]

I guess people still have PTSD from this, even if it was only a second long.

View attachment 317183

People really did just take a few second long gag and take it to mean Sakurai was the Japanese equivalent to Ed Boon huh

 

[Shroob]

Basically the reason why I 100% believe him when he says "2 more and done."


Sure, I 'could' see a final "SURPRISE!" bonus character at the end, but we're not getting a FP3, he's made that abundantly clear, and at this point, anyone who still pulls the "He's lying!" card is just deluding themselves.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

At the very most I think we could get one more Individual DLC bonus. Whether it’s an echo of CP10 or 11; or a smaller first party like Ayumi or Octoling or Elma, Black Shadow, another Kirby rep...

it feels... iffy having Piranha Plant be the sole individual DLC

 

[Technomage]

Basically the reason why I 100% believe him when he says "2 more and done."


Sure, I 'could' see a final "SURPRISE!" bonus character at the end, but we're not getting a FP3, he's made that abundantly clear, and at this point, anyone who still pulls the "He's lying!" card is just deluding themselves.

I've come up with a way to add extra characters while having the sentence "two more and done" remain true: Add that Master Hand mode being accessible at all times to the game.

 

[Hinata]

Basically the reason why I 100% believe him when he says "2 more and done."


Sure, I 'could' see a final "SURPRISE!" bonus character at the end, but we're not getting a FP3, he's made that abundantly clear, and at this point, anyone who still pulls the "He's lying!" card is just deluding themselves.

Ultimate DLC started with a bonus character, and it shall end with a bonus character.

It'd be neat if we got one final bonus character, because according to SSBWiki, that'd put us at a nice, round, 90 characters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Basically the reason why I 100% believe him when he says "2 more and done."


Sure, I 'could' see a final "SURPRISE!" bonus character at the end, but we're not getting a FP3, he's made that abundantly clear, and at this point, anyone who still pulls the "He's lying!" card is just deluding themselves.

It’s more believable that he’d take a month break after finishing Ultimate before working on a port for the next console than the idea of there being a bonus fighter. Even an Echo Fighter would be a massive stretch.

 

[Perkilator]

Cute fanart. :3

A quick drawing of the characters i would love to see in Smash Bros... but as Kirby ✨ i would be so happy if sora and crash are the 2 characters left in the Fighters Pass vol 2#fanart #E32021 pic.twitter.com/DVUP1mQsou

— Noctane (@theNoctane) May 30, 2021

 

[Technomage]

Cute fanart. :3

There was a problem fetching the tweet

That'll be the face Sora makes if he doesn't Join the Battle this game. XD

 

[Shroob]

It’s more believable that he’d take a month break after finishing Ultimate before working on a port for the next console than the idea of there being a bonus fighter. Even an Echo Fighter would be a massive stretch.

Truthfully, I don't expect one myself, and expect the DLC to end 100% at the CP11 presentation, but as small of a margin as it is, I have to keep that one website error in mind. I don't believe it'll amount to anything, and personally view it as nothing short of a clerical error, but I'd be remiss to ignore it outright.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The real question tho;

will the next smash keep Spirits (maybe adding lore blurbs) or go back to Trophies?

tbh I think Spirits is best. Less work for 3D modeling, more chances at representing a large variety of stuff that will likely never have playable, Mii or AT content (like Eternal Darkness), and if the next smash IS Ultimate Encore it probably will have spirits anyway

 

[Dan Quixote]

On the topic of "Everyone is HERE!" being dropped in SSB6... Yeah I've already resigned to it. Bummer I know, especially since I know one of my fav fighters to play as, Dr. Mario, is gonna be one of the first on the chopping block. But guys, this is a fighting game, and that's just how fighting games have always worked. Characters get cut, they come back three games later, and they're gone again, just depending on fan demand or dev willingness. At least it'll make room for more fun and unexpected base-game newcomers in the future. I think it's better they rip this bandage off now rather than later. It's like Pokémon. Eventually it gets too big and you gotta just leave some behind and it'll hurt more the longer you wait to make that decision. (yes yes I know whether you think Game Freak actually had the dev capabilities to include all of the Pokémon is up to you but it's the same principle okay?)

 

[Technomage]

The real question tho;

will the next smash keep Spirits (maybe adding lore blurbs) or go back to Trophies?

tbh I think Spirits is best. Less work for 3D modeling, more chances at representing a large variety of stuff that will likely never have playable, Mii or AT content (like Eternal Darkness), and if the next smash IS Ultimate Encore it probably will have spirits anyway

Hopefully keep spirits, since Trophies take too much time and resources to be worthwhile. However, I do agree that Spirits should come with information on them.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

N64 Model Mods for Smash Ultimate.

The creator did a bunch of others as well.

Spoiler

 

[Shroob]

On the topic of "Everyone is HERE!" being dropped in SSB6... Yeah I've already resigned to it. Bummer I know, especially since I know one of my fav fighters to play as, Dr. Mario, is gonna be one of the first on the chopping block. But guys, this is a fighting game, and that's just how fighting games have always worked. Characters get cut, they come back three games later, and they're gone again, just depending on fan demand or dev willingness. At least it'll make room for more fun and unexpected base-game newcomers in the future. I think it's better they rip this bandage off now rather than later. It's like Pokémon. Eventually it gets too big and you gotta just leave some behind and it'll hurt more the longer you wait to make that decision. (yes yes I know whether you think Game Freak actually had the dev capabilities to include all of the Pokémon is up to you but it's the same principle okay?)

This is the biggest Achilles heel of the future of this franchise.


Smash, is its roster. Some people will argue it's not, but it just is. Look at how people will drop everything when a new Smash character is about to be announced, and how the community's built itself around reveals and reactions.



Other fighting games have a rotating cast of characters, but the fact that "EVERYONE IS HERE!" was a massive selling point of Ultimate shows they're well aware of how much people frankly love this game's storied history and roster.


Which, will make transitioning into the next installment very awkward. There will be future Smash games, that's undeniable, but the question is, how do you go from Ultimate to the new game without alienating a ton of fans of Ultimate? That's the hard part with no real answer to.

 

[Technomage]

N64 Model Mods for Smash Ultimate.

The creator did a bunch of others as well.

Spoiler

Awww, no Gerudo Girl costume for Link? How disappointing...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I would like if all single player modes were available from the start. Doesn’t feel right that Home Run was patched in

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I would like if all single player modes were available from the start. Doesn’t feel right that Home Run was patched in

I don't mind waiting if it means we could have more modes.

I wish they could still add more at this point, I miss Target Test, Boss Battles, and Smash Run.

 

[Momotsuki]

Again, I don't think Sakurai would outright lie about these two fighters being it. If there was in fact a bonus fighter, I imagine he simply wouldn't have mentioned that detail at all. It's much easier to do, and would be much more effective - than BSing would be.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I mean, they were also the last character.

I'd wager that the wide majority of people bought the FP1 before Hero was even revealed, so regardless if people liked it or not, you're stuck with Byleth lol.

That is exactly why Joker and Steve were sold early on (crackhead theory of Min Min and Steve originally being revealed together at E3) and why Byleth was last. First they suck you in, then they hit you with another Fire Emblem or a Pokemon.

 

[Dan Quixote]

This is the biggest Achilles heel of the future of this franchise.


Smash, is its roster. Some people will argue it's not, but it just is. Look at how people will drop everything when a new Smash character is about to be announced, and how the community's built itself around reveals and reactions.



Other fighting games have a rotating cast of characters, but the fact that "EVERYONE IS HERE!" was a massive selling point of Ultimate shows they're well aware of how much people frankly love this game's storied history and roster.


Which, will make transitioning into the next installment very awkward. There will be future Smash games, that's undeniable, but the question is, how do you go from Ultimate to the new game without alienating a ton of fans of Ultimate? That's the hard part with no real answer to.

Like I said, I assume they make up for it in just going even more hog wild on the regular additions to the series. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if SSB6, even if it cuts characters, will bring us to over 100 characters across the entire series.

Or they bring back Subspace Emissary that would be a GREAT selling point and this coming from someone who loved World of Light.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

That is exactly why Joker and Steve were sold early on (crackhead theory of Min Min and Steve originally being revealed together at E3) and why Byleth was last. First they suck you in, then they hit you with another Fire Emblem or a Pokemon.

Well, Sakurai did specifically warn people to only buy the pass if they were sure of wanting every character even if they didn’t know who they were.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Not that I think it'll happen, but Sakurai saying at E3 that these are the last two characters, but not the last updates to Ultimate, and revealing that several returning/new stages/mii costumes are still coming would be a very nice surprise.

 

[Shroob]

Like I said, I assume they make up for it in just going even more hog wild on the regular additions to the series. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if SSB6, even if it cuts characters, will bring us to over 100 characters across the entire series.

Or they bring back Subspace Emissary that would be a GREAT selling point and this coming from someone who loved World of Light.

Likewise, I severely doubt we'd get 100+ characters while also including cuts.


The fact is, the future of the series after Ultimate is way too hard to predict what'll happen.

 

[Momotsuki]

This is the biggest Achilles heel of the future of this franchise.


Smash, is its roster. Some people will argue it's not, but it just is. Look at how people will drop everything when a new Smash character is about to be announced, and how the community's built itself around reveals and reactions.



Other fighting games have a rotating cast of characters, but the fact that "EVERYONE IS HERE!" was a massive selling point of Ultimate shows they're well aware of how much people frankly love this game's storied history and roster.


Which, will make transitioning into the next installment very awkward. There will be future Smash games, that's undeniable, but the question is, how do you go from Ultimate to the new game without alienating a ton of fans of Ultimate? That's the hard part with no real answer to.

This is why I'm done with like - being seriously invested in the Smash series after Ultimate. Not because I think the series' future installments are doomed to suck, but just because I don't really care to be a part of wherever the series decides to go. I'll still, like - glance at Smash now and then, a "hey, that's cool" here or there, but nothing like how I've been involved in recent years. We're not getting something like this again. And maybe that's okay!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Not that I think it'll happen, but Sakurai saying at E3 that these are the last two characters, but not the last updates to Ultimate, and revealing that several returning/new stages/mii costumes are still coming would be a very nice surprise.

Just give me some additions to existing modes and I’m good

I’m sure you know what I mean by now I’ve mentioned them repeatedly and I feel like I may be the only one here that wants them

Hero’s trailer had me wanting that one feature so badly sue me

 

[Dan Quixote]

Likewise, I severely doubt we'd get 100+ characters while also including cuts.


The fact is, the future of the series after Ultimate is way too hard to predict what'll happen.

Another idea, Smash spin-off series. That's another way other fighting game franchises bring back old playable characters or give bigger spotlights to the less important ones of the main series!